October 2002 posts
What special colored lens are you viewing Buffy through? LONG Spoiler 7.whatever -- Don't Hurt Me, Please!, 06:20:04 10/24/02 Thu
Warning: I apologize right now for this post. Do not read if you are a "purist" Buffy fan!
These thoughts, observations and ravings come after reading 7 straight hours of "The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious" by Jung. No I did not read this book so I could write this post. It's for a thesis so please forgive me if my prose runs dry, and I misspell, mispel....don't spell the words correctly. . . .and don't hurt me. I've had a very, very, very, so bad it's funny, two weeks.
Topic Keywords:
The Good Buffy, The Bad Buffy, Spike equals noSpike, Jung, Archetypes, Basement as Personal Unconscious, School as Self, Yin and Yang, Perception and Cognition, Aging, Rating the "Hotties" in Male Vampires, Family Relations, Casting, Advertising, Moon Landing of July, 1969, Higher Mathematics, Other Network's Programs.
Introduction:
It appears to this author, personally, that the opening two scenes of the latest episode of "Buffy: The Vampire Slayer" [hereforth referred to as [Buffy"] have been discussed on this board as being within, basically, two contexts. The first scene [hereforth referred to as "The Nice Buffy"] shows Buffy and Spike -- sitting in Sunnydale, CA's new high school basement -- talking about Spike's recent mental health issues, how he now better understands Dru [former lover who had visions], and how things just seem to be "getting better all the time" (Beatles, 1960s). Buffy is there to offer her smile, support and anything else that might have come into the viewers' minds while watching. [This author, personally, extrapolated future events upon viewing.] Spike is thankful, but still feels guilt about asking for Buffy's help, even after he called her God, because last season, when his soul was preoccupied somewhere else [Hell if this author knows where.] Spike attempted to rape Buffy in a really spacious bathroom. Buffy smiles at Spike, pats his hand, and reminds him gently that she is she and he is he and they will get through this togethter.
There is a quick cut to what will be referred to as "The Bad Buffy" scene, and we again are in the school's basement, but this time Spike is sitting alone, on the floor, next to one of the moving walls, still wearing the blue shirt, messing up his hair. Disponda(e)ncy reeks from the television screen. Viewers clearly can tell that Spike is unhappy, probably to the point of considering buying Buffy a dust-buster as a "going- way" present. [This author personally wondered if anti-depressants worked on vampires.) Buffy, with an authoritarian aire, and clipped steps, stands over Spike and basically tells him that he must leave the basement of the high school. [Jung might say that this implies that Buffy wants Spike to get out of her unconscious or, to put it simply, get out of her head.] Spike replies that he has nowhere to go. [Personally this author thought of a suggestion, but determined that it was an impossibility since this author does not live in the Buffyverse.]
The general opinions of this board are that "The Nice Buffy" scene was a daydream, or possibly a psychotic vision of Spike's. Some posters suggested that it represented a frightening "possibility" or even "reality" to Buffy. In short, this was Buffy's take on what "really" happened. She was very nice and supportive, and encouraged Spike to get out and get some sun to improve his mood. There was a general agreement that this scene occurred within television's mediated linear time as the event that happened first. [Hereafter: "happened first."] Regarding, "The Bad Buffy" scene, it was offered that this was the "real" scene [It is this author's personal opinion that "real," in reference to television, is limited to live news footage, and, of course, the televised landing on the Moon in July of 1969.] By "real" this author will offer a definition of "any scene, prop, dialogue or personage that possibly could be imagined as existing within a world most familiar to viewers as the "Buffyverse." Still, a small number of posters believed this "The Bad Buffy" scene to be a reflection, or representation, of Spike's unease and possible paranoia concerning his feelings for Buffy and/or Buffy's feeling for him. It was generally agreed that "The Bad Buffy" scene followed "The Good Buffy" scene in a linear fashion, just like one thing leads to another [thing]. [Jung might conclude that this was Spike's experience, while in a fragmented, post-traumatic state of "being." "Being," for this paper is defined as "a state where one emotionally resides. [i.e. Misery]]. So, Spike might interpret what Buffy intends to be "helping" as "no help at all."
The thesis of this paper argues against all of these positions, and proposes that "The Good Buffy" scene and "The Bad Buffy" scene actually occurred concurently, concurrently . . . at the same time, and were actually manicfixations, or lexical visual and auditory symbolic presentations, of the characters' affective point's of view of "reality" [Buffyverse]. . . which arose from the characters' personal unconsciousnesseses to become frightfully conscious, thus activating universal archetypes -- vague, primordial images that have existed a really, really, . . . really long time, perhaps even before this author was personally born -- from the characters' [deep breath] shared, genetically inherited collective unconscious. . . during a period of emotional and mental sexual [What? I can't say sexual?] ah, mental confusion about their respective specific inherited biological gender genes of either XX chromosomes or XY chromosmes -- although there are variances such as the violotile, viol, really mean and hits alot XYY chromosome pairing, er, collection -- identities (Jung 1990, Vol. 9, Part 1; 1-651).
Methodology:
This author, personally, indeed, will wing it on her own.
Biasses:
The obvious bias in this thesis is that it opposus, oppos., disagrees with the axiom that the simpil, simpel . . .most probable explanation is the correct explanation (Whomever, Whenever, Somewhere), or "painted ponies are not always zebras" (Ibid.). This author also contends that Jung was a sexist pi [I can't say that either?] person, biased against women concerning the archetypes of the male unconscious or anima -- one female presense residing within one male's unconscious - and the female unconscious or animals, er animus -- many male presenses residing within one female's unconscious. . . Hum. This author, personally, has changed her opinion and does not believe that Jung was a sexist, p . .ah, person. Indeed, he most surely was a man of great insight.
This author, personally, will now present this argument based upon stuff she will turn in some other day, because, indeed, her brain feels like fried eggs on drugs - overeasy. Ketchup please.
In conclusion, [see what I said above].
Furthermore, Jung's take on the anima and the animus was not taken into account by the writers of Buffy so it is this author's personal opinion that Buffy was gip.. jip... not fairly cast oppositionally [other characters within the scene]. There should have been at least twelve [12] to, oh, what, thirty [30] Spikes [all with souls and chips and a little salsa] in the basement [representing Buffy's unconscious], residing inside of Buffy's head. Therefore, since Spike is actually an ancient symbol of Buffy's yin plus yang, and he resides within the brain of Buffy, then, rationally, Buffy could not have ever been in the basement at all, and neither "The Good Buffy" scene nor "The Bad Buffy" scene were actually broadcast. Theorhetically though, indeed, this does not negate the probability that both "The Good Buffy" scene and "The Bad Buffy" scene did occur simutaneously, or "at the same time." Indeed, since neither scene was broadcast, they were more than probably simultaneously [at the same time] not broadcasted together.
It is also the belief of this author that facts as presented by the writers:
1. Have Spike having two mothers and no father [there is a probability that Spike could be his own father since, technically, William died in 1880 and the same soul was replaced into Spike/William's body in 2002. This author, not being a theolo, theolog.. a religious authority can not speculate on whether or not this could be classified as a virgin birth;
2. Have Spike looking younger than he was when turned [As William the Bloody Bad Poet, Spike was turned in 1880, but another authoritative character in Season 2 stated that Spike was approximately 200 years old: Just a scamp vamp. Do the math. 2002 minus 1880 equals 122. 200 minus 122 equals (frickin' advanced math!) [I'm sorry! It slipped out before I could stop it!] Ah .........78! So, what, Spike was born in 1802? Wow, now he's one hottie senior citizen. He makes a better looking vamp than Tom Cruise; No doubt there, and he certainly can give Brad Pitt a run for the blood;
3. Have Buffy and Spike in a storyline that can only end in a "sister/brother" or sibling relationship [eew! Don't even think about that! Besides, it has already been done in Star Wars.]
4. Had a situation going that I just suppressed to my lower unconscious - far, far down where it cannot devour anything -- and far, far away from the guys who live in my unconscious. In fact, I just suppressed the fact that I just wrote what I wrote....what?
5. Have written the relationship between Dru and Spike, if they lived together in California for seven continuous years at any point, as a common law marriage, so Dru would not only be Spike's mother, but she would also be his wife. If Dru had taken the vows at the nunnery [place where they hatch nuns] then God would be Spike's father-in-law. Indeed, Angel would be God's brother.
6. Have scheduling problems [UPN]. After watching Buffy, this author, personally, turns off the television and goes to her room and thinks about the just watched episode, then returns to the living room at 9 p.m. (CST) to watch "Crossing Jordan." This author, personally, considers it to be a show about a reincarnated character from "Law and Order." So it is, technically, a spin-off of "Law and Order" and so deserves another season of contemplation.
This author's personal recommendations to the UPN network regarding revenue:
1. There is an outrageous amount of air time for advertising during Buffy, and UPN runs one particularly revolting advertisement at least twice during each Buffy episode. Believe me: It is NOT a perfect world.
2. UPN needs to run Buffy twice a week so viewers can watch the first time, and listen the second time. Heaven knows, no Buffy fan would ever tape copyrighted material to be used for their free viewing pleasure, uses or gratification.
In closing:
The Moon landing in July of 1969 was not shot on a back lot somewhere in Hollywood as many people are asserting. It was a "live news report" so it was "real". The author should personally know. She was personally there.
Recommendation for further research:
With the matrix of possible illegal family relationships within the Buffyverse, parenting, in this author's personal opinion, needs to be critically viewed because self-parenting, which is responsive but possibly not demanding, could support a thesis of an Authoritarian Parenting Style that research has shown to result in adolescents with major issues regarding identity, personal relationships, negative peer influence, affective disorders, and negative eating habits. Self-esteem is also at risk with these adolescents and could follow them into adulthood unless attended.
2. With the advent of new technology that allows Vampires to lead more normal lives, through negative reinforcement of pain when there is a desire to feed upon persons livng, this author, personally, believes that "quality of life" might become a major problem, creating a secular social crisis, and the possible creation of a new social class.
[>
LMAO! -- Arethusa, 07:44:45 10/24/02 Thu
And there it goes, falling onto the floor. Oh well, I had a little to spare anyway.
I see BtVS as a quasi-military sociological experiment, imposed on the world by the United Nations. A segment of the populace is brainwhashed into estatic (in the religious sense) worship of the Whedonverse. A sub-set of the populace is also indoctrinated with the same data, with the additional twist of creating a sub-sub set of worshipers of Spike, thereby injecting a jihad-like dynamic into the populace. While both sides argue and swing mystical (in the sense they're not really there) weapons, many people in white coats and blue uniforms are taking notes to study the effects of fanaticism and the development of religious/literary intolerance.
[> [>
If this is waht 7 hours of Jung is like... -- Deeva, 08:33:09 10/24/02 Thu
then I should consider getting me some! This was an excellent post and a funny one at that.
[>
That is too funny. I would never hurt you - unless you stop doing this! -- Caroline, 09:13:14 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Re: What special colored lens are you viewing Buffy through? LONG Spoiler 7.whatever -- Sophie, 09:27:50 10/24/02 Thu
Reminds me of the time I did some geneaolgy work while researching a historical building. I got all confused because the family in question liked to name first sons all the same name and never bother with the Jr., III, etc stuff. I got all confused and concluded that the woman in question had children by her hubby's father. Oops.
Sophie
[>
I love it! -- HonorH, 09:52:58 10/24/02 Thu
A cuter skewering of our propensity to overanalyze and over-quote authorities (*cough*JosephCampbell*cough*) I've never seen. No hurting here, dear, and do post again--under your real pseudonym. Ain't that a pretty oxymoron?
[> [>
Re: I love it! -- Deb, 10:42:59 10/24/02 Thu
and coghing, er coughing right back at you. I also enjoyed the lampooning of professors'-past writing curiosities and several theories disguised as common sense.
[> [>
Hey!!!!!! I'm thinking about a Vengeance Archetypal Whammy to put on you.......;) -- Joseph Campbell, 22:10:13 10/24/02 Thu
[>
VERY FUNNY. Thanks. -- yez, 11:04:40 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Keeping it Simple. Keeping it Unreal. (moderately long. May contain S7 spoilers.) -- ZachsMind, 11:34:52 10/24/02 Thu
Uhm... Okay...
Admittedly, the Buffy Experience is different for every participant. One who has not recently subjected oneself to "reading 7 straight hours of 'The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious' by Jung" will no doubt reach different conclusions regarding the Spike/Buffy/Buffy scene in "Selfless." Speaking as one who hasn't read Jung recently, but is vaguely aware of his teachings, I say I'd prefer to follow the logic of an anonymous philosopher who once said, "Keep it simple stupid." Not that I'm stupid or that I'm addressing anyone who is, but this basic tenet of western philosophy has served me well. It reminds me of James Carville's words to William Jefferson Clinton some years ago: "It's the economy, stupid," and if Carville can call Clinton stupid to his face, I find it economical to accept such criticisms upon myself.
The scene in question leaves more questions open than it answers. The clothes worn by the second Buffy in the scene were similar to those worn by Buffy elsewhere that episode (at least the color scheme was the same, but I don't recall if the actual fashion was identical), so we are led to assume that it was the second Buffy that appeared in the scene who is the "real" Buffy.
"Real" is a difficult word to concretely define when discussing fiction. In this case, there is the "real" world you and I allegedly live in, which we commonly refer to as the "Universe" for simplicity's sake. The world in which Buffy is but a tv show. Then there's the "real" world that exists for the fictional characters IN Buffy's world, and we here in the Universe who are fans of Buffy commonly refer to that as the BuffyVerse or Buffy's World. Again, for simplicity's sake. Thirdly, there's the reality that Spike himself is presently experiencing. We assume this world is the same as the BuffyVerse, as he still resides within it. However, Spike's perspective of the BuffyVerse has become askewed, so herein lies the complexity. When we see things from Spike's perspective, are we seeing the "BuffyVerse," or yet a third reality, or are we simply seeing the deranged illusions of Spike's recently souled yet still demon infested brain?
Again, for simplicity's sake, we can probably assume the latter. Spike's present condition is physically still in the BuffyVerse, but his mind and spirit are in a state of upheaval, not unlike the effects of particularly strong and hallucinatory narcotic drugs. So we simply cannot fully trust any of the experiences that the M.E. writers reveal to us from Spike's perspective. We can assume the first Buffy in the scene was a figment because 1) we don't see her leave & change clothes when the second Buffy appears, and 2) what she says is not in keeping with Buffy's recent behavior towards Spike. The second Buffy appears more 'real' to us, because of what she says, but she too could be a figment of Spike's imagination. We have no way to know for sure. In fact, as I reveal in a moment, it could just as easily have been the other way around, had the camera positioning given the first Buffy a logical way of leaving the scene before the second arrived.
The concept that one Buffy is 'evil' and another is 'good' is a perplexing one. There's truly no good or evil particularly in this scene. We simply see two potential approaches to resolving a similar issue, that being Spike's state of mind. The first Buffy calmly and politely offers Spike sympathy, even empathy, and a promise that they'll work through it together. The second is a more dominating and uncompromising Buffy who speaks with authority from a distance, and offers a dramatic but definitive solution to Spike's condition, that of "getting out of the basement because it's evil and it's killing him."
The first Buffy offers no such certainty or avenue of action. She simply listens and offers warmth. In fact, we're not seeing a Buffy here that's out of character. The first Buffy resembles the Counselor Buffy that Spike may be hearing through the ventilation shaft of the school system, if he's peeping in on her conversations with other students. She's not a good Buffy or a bad Buffy, but a Buffy that offers a compassionate ear without necessary demanding a course of action from the student. This is a "face" of Buffy that Spike perhaps needs more than the more authoritative Slayer Buffy. Calling the second Buffy evil is calling her Slayer persona evil. This may be where the M.E. writers are eventually going (Note Buffy's recent near despotic speech about being "The Law" when it comes to demonology in Sunnydale), but I kinda doubt it.
By the way, Spike's mental state does offer the writers a unique way of opportunistic storytelling. In "Same Time Same Place" a few weeks ago, Spike's was able to see Willow & Buffy at the same time, though they could not see one another. Later, we learn that Anya can too. This is not because Spike & Anya were special in any way, but because Willow's inadvertent magicks kept Buffy (Xander & Dawn) & Willow from seeing one another, but this didn't affect others outside that sphere of influence. HOWEVER, since at that point in the plot of the episode we as viewers were not certain of this, this gave the writers an opportunity to allow the characters hints about one another through Spike which were vague and inconclusive, extending the suspense of the storyline in a way that they could not have done without Spike in the picture.
So I guess sometimes it doesn't pay to keep things simple.
[> [>
Perspicacity Incarnate! -- HonorH, 11:45:55 10/24/02 Thu
Eschew obfuscation, as I always say. 'Tis better to be laconic and be perceived as a scaramouche than to be garrulous and give credence to the perception. Bravo, Zachary, for your elegant demonstration of this truism!
[> [> [>
Could I have that in English, please? -- Sophomorica, chewing on her dictionary, 11:59:24 10/24/02 Thu
[> [> [> [>
A possible interpretation -- ZachsMind, 12:08:30 10/24/02 Thu
I believe what HonorH is trying to say is a sentiment similar to, "Tis better to appear the fool and remain silent, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." HonorH is being far too british:
GILES: (to Willow) ...I've been researching this Harvest affair. It seems to be some sort of preordained massacre. Rivers of blood, Hell on Earth, quite charmless. I'm a bit fuzzy, however, on the details. It may be that you can wrest some information from that dread machine. (Everyone stares at him.) That was a bit, um, British, wasn't it?
BUFFY: Welcome to the New World.
[Willow looks at him blankly]
GILES: I want you to go on the 'Net.
WILLOW: Oh! I can do that.
[> [>
Re: Keeping it Simple. Keeping it Unreal. (moderately long. May contain S7 spoilers.) -- MaeveRigan, 19:05:09 10/24/02 Thu
"She's not a good Buffy or a bad Buffy, but a Buffy that offers a compassionate ear without necessary demanding a course of action from the student. This is a "face" of Buffy that Spike perhaps needs more than the more authoritative Slayer Buffy. Calling the second Buffy evil is calling her Slayer persona evil. This may be where the M.E. writers are eventually going (Note Buffy's recent near despotic speech about being "The Law" when it comes to demonology in Sunnydale), but I kinda doubt it."
I'd say the white-clad, sympathetic Buffy may be one that Spike "perhaps wants more than the that more authoritative Slayer Buffy," but what he really needs is the Slayer to get him up and out of the basement, because she's absolutely right--it's killing him.
I'm not willing to speculate at this point on where ME is going with Buffy in B7, but I would say that in this particular scene, "sweetness-and-light" Buffy is definitely a deceptive illusion that is not really helping Spike out at all.
In the same way, at the end of "Selfless," as tempting as it might be for Anya to cry on Xander's shoulder, the only way she's going to get herself together and find out who herSELF is, is to refuse the sympathy and go it alone.
[>
ROTFL !!! This is the best! Please Keep posting.. -- shadowkat, 12:47:01 10/24/02 Thu
Ahhh finally someone to explain why Jung has always confused the heck out of me. See? This is why I flip yin/yang and animus/anima in my head....
You think Buffy's bad? Try doing a thesis comparing the female characters of Joyce's Ulyssess and Faulkner's Sound and Fury using Fruedian and Jungian analysis - evil evil English thesis counselors...I went so above my own head and theirs they gave me an A- just for tackling it. I ended up throwing it out finally - since I couldn't make heads or tails of it. If you can't figure out your own thesis that's saying something believe me.
My favorite highlights of your wonderful piece:
1."Spike replies that he has nowhere to go. [Personally this author thought of a suggestion, but determined that it was an impossibility since this author does not live in the Buffyverse.]" Me too! LMAO!
2."Regarding, "The Bad Buffy" scene, it was offered that this was the "real" scene [It is this author's personal opinion that "real," in reference to television, is limited to live news footage, and, of course, the televised landing on the Moon in July of 1969.] " LOL! yes! yes! Quote of the week!
3."This author also contends that Jung was a sexist pi [I can't say that either?] person, biased against women concerning the archetypes of the male unconscious or anima -- one female presense residing within one male's unconscious - and the female unconscious or animals, er animus -- many male presenses residing within one female's unconscious. . . Hum. This author, personally, has changed her opinion and does not believe that Jung was a sexist, p . .ah, person. Indeed, he most surely was a man of great insight. " Yes! Jung even confounds me on whether or not he's a sexist pig (sorry will use it). At least you can tell with Freud...ah maybe that's why I prefer Jung to Freud now that I think on it.
4. "There is an outrageous amount of air time for advertising during Buffy, and UPN runs one particularly revolting advertisement at least twice during each Buffy episode. Believe me: It is NOT a perfect world."
Quote of week number 2. yes! Hate that commericial.
5." Have Spike looking younger than he was when turned [As William the Bloody Bad Poet, Spike was turned in 1880, but another authoritative character in Season 2 stated that Spike was approximately 200 years old: Just a scamp vamp. Do the math. 2002 minus 1880 equals 122. 200 minus 122 equals (frickin' advanced math!) [I'm sorry! It slipped out before I could stop it!] Ah .........78! So, what, Spike was born in 1802? Wow, now he's one hottie senior citizen. He makes a better looking vamp than Tom Cruise; No doubt there, and he certainly can give Brad Pitt a run for the blood;"
Oh but it gets wonkier. In The Initiative he says he's only 126. So let's see...1999: 126.
1998: 200 or slightly below it.
And in 2000: sired in 1880
So how old is Spike??? I like the born twice theory.
He was born from Drusilla in 1880 = 126.
But was 100 at the time of siring = hence one incredible senior citzen?
LMAO!
and finally the coup de grace?
" With the advent of new technology that allows Vampires to lead more normal lives, through negative reinforcement of pain when there is a desire to feed upon persons livng, this author, personally, believes that "quality of life" might become a major problem, creating a secular social crisis, and the possible creation of a new social class."
Hum...methinks some fiction writers have already addressed this including our own cjl.
[>
Best thesis statement I've ever read!! -- Pilgrim, 14:46:04 10/24/02 Thu
Especially the "personal unconsciousnesseses" and "the primordial images that have existed a really, really, . . . really long time, perhaps even before this author was personally born." Hehehe.
[>
Fab, dahling! Veddy, veddy amusing! -- Dichotomy, 17:06:09 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Loved it. Very funny stuff! -- Artemis, 18:37:15 10/24/02 Thu
Random thought (Spoilers upto "Selfless") -- RandomThought, 11:32:08 10/24/02 Thu
I was just going through a few posts when something kind of clicked in my head.
In Selfless, Buffy hotly declares to Xander, "I am the Law!" and earlier in that same episode Anya declares to Halfrek, "I am Vengence" (or something along those lines). Then Anyanka tells Xander "I have a job to do, and Buffy has hers."
Makes me wonder, how thin is the line between vengence demon and Slayer? Is Anya's story in "Selfless" reflecting/foreshadowing Buffy's own story? Buffy hasn't seemed to let herself recover from Angel's death, just as Aud never recovered from Olaf's infidelity. Both women claim to have loved their men so much that they "wanted to die" or felt like their "heart would burst." As Anyanka, Aud never recovered from that. As Anya, however, it looks like she's on her way to becoming her own person, outside of her relationships, outside of her job as a vengence demon. Is that what Buffy needs to do? Find a way to become her own person, outside of her love with Angel and her job as the Slayer?
[>
I think it comes down to choice. -- HonorH, 11:39:46 10/24/02 Thu
In this ep, we saw Heart, Spirit, and Hand working separately. Heart wanted only to save Anya's life--he went to talk to her directly, to get her out of the line of fire. Spirit sought a solution in the spiritual world--she conjured D'Hoffryn and sought to persuade him. Hand sought the Slayer's solution--a demon's become a threat to human life, and therefore, demon must be destroyed. Ultimately, however, it was Anya's personal choice, her own wish, that settled the matter.
Just as I think it'll be a choice with Buffy. At some point, I think she's going to have to make the choice to go the pure Slayer route, or to create something new out of her Slayer role. She's going to make the choice to split with her heritage and become something entirely different, and very likely more powerful.
[> [>
Very concise! -- vh, 06:19:57 10/25/02 Fri
[>
Similar sentiments... -- ZachsMind, 14:15:53 10/24/02 Thu
I believe I expressed similar sentiments in a now archived thread, although you're bringing it more into sharp relief.
"Date Posted: 22:35:32 10/22/02 Tue
Author: ZachsMind
Subject: Anya hasn't chosen evil, exactly...
To Anya, being a demon isn't evil. It's an opportunity to right the wrongs of others. To pay justice to those who are oppressing her surrogate sisterhood of the planet. In fact she felt as much The Chosen One as Buffy does. Anya never saw what she was doing as evil until just recently. It's why she felt guilt and remorse over what she'd done in this latest episode. Why she can't go back into the whole 'inflicting' thing anymore. She's learned that it is evil, that the end does not justify the means, and was willing to sacrifice herself in order to take it all back. So Willow's learned that lesson, and so has Anya. My question now is: when is Buffy gonna learn that lesson?"
From the perspective of some demons, say Clem or Lorne (from AtS), who are more on the fence of ambiguity in the war of good & evil, Buffy's actions against their kind could be seen as particularly wrong. Clem has admitted to being particularly nice to Dawn before, not just because he likes her as a friend which he does, but also because of Buffy:
CLEM: Aw, you're not going to go and get yourself in trouble now, are you? Or me? 'Cause your sister's the Slayer. I'm a demon. That's real good incentive to get along with her...
Anya & Willow have learned the hard way that what may appear to be right vs wrong from one's limited perspective, is ultimately probably not identical to actual right & wrong. Again, we veer towards Nietzchean thinking here. There's one's interpretation of morality, and then there's actual right & wrong. An earthquake by natural forces kills thousands. Is that wrong? Is that evil? Or was it perfectly natural that such things occur on Earth & nothing to worry about? Now, what if someone like Willow or Anya cause that natural disaster because they felt those thousands deserve to die? Naturally from our perspectives that's probably perceived as wrong. However, what's the difference?
The difference is that one occurs naturally, by the force of the universe (God, if you're so inclined), which is ultimately the true judge of right & wrong and even if we disagree, we are rarely in a position to argue otherwise. However, if a member of Mankind causes the wrong, we have a peer to blame. So we play judge. We play God. We decide whether Willow was wrong to kill Warren, or whether Anya was right to turn Ronnie into a worm, or whether Buffy was right in skewering Angel to save the world.
It's fun to play God when we're talking about fictional characters. Should Ahab have bested the whale? Was Holmes truly Moriarty's intellectual and moral superior in the end? Did Scrooge suffer enough for a life of misdeeds that one night with the three spirits, or should he have suffered more? So long as we keep it in the field of fiction, there's no harm done, eh?
Ultimately the comparison between Anya and Willow is going to befall Buffy. As Spike's torturer said in the season episode: It's not about right or wrong. It's about power. The judgement Buffy has placed on her peers is about to befall her. Is her judgement identical to that of the universe in which she lives? Do demons and vampires deserve to co-exist with humans? Does one have the power to conquer the other and should that be allowed?
Demons and humans can be compared to African hyenas and lions out in the wild. Both predatory creatures of their mutual environment, competing for land and fighting for survival. Does the lion deserve to live in the Sahara more than the hyenas do? Why? Because lions are more beautiful and hyenas more ugly?
Is Buffy right in killing demons? Do humans have a right to the planet? These are deep theological questions. I'm beginning to wonder if "demon" is the wrong word for these creatures. We may not be speaking of demon in the context of Judeo-Christian theology, but Whedon's demons could be aliens from an alternate reality who believe they have prior right and claim on the Earth in Buffy's universe. The battle between human & demon in Whedon's fictonal reality may have something in common with the age-old argument occurring even today in OUR world's middle east. The palestines versus the israelites. Who has a right to the land?
[> [>
Good thoughts, but-- -- HonorH, 14:41:11 10/24/02 Thu
The problem isn't just "sharing the land." The problem comes when demons start killing humans. Buffy didn't kill Spike because the chip made him harmless. She didn't kill Angel because of his soul. She doesn't kill Clem because he's harmless. She never went after Anya until Anya started killing humans.
The way I see it, Buffy acts as a policewoman. If you don't attract her attention by being destructive, you'll be okay. Note that she doesn't go firebombing Willy's Bar. Vampires, whose natural prey is humans, immediately get the stake, of course. Buffy's job as Slayer is to protect humans, not to go around killing demons arbitrarily. She has to pick her battles.
[> [> [>
All Good Things In Time... -- ZachsMind, 15:23:14 10/24/02 Thu
So it's okay for humans to kill all the demons they want, but one bad guy starts killing humans and there's a price to pay? I'm not saying I am siding with the demons. I guess you could say I'm playing Devil's Advocate? But Whedon has been painting the demon populous in more recent years to be sympathetic.
GILES: What do you want me to say?
BUFFY: Lie to me.
GILES: Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after.
BUFFY: Liar.
It's not a blanket good versus bad world that he's revealing. Though called demons, these creatures from the Hellmouth don't all act like Snidely Whiplash. Some of them do. Some of them act like they have similar interests and hopes and dreams and fears to humans, but come from a remarkably different culture. They struggle with good & evil just as humans do. Some embrace what we call evil and are a threat. Some dance with good and suffer just as normal humans dance with evil and take risks with those temptations. Some tread the very thin tightrope of neutrality, hoping to maintain a balance for all concerned so that there's never an armageddon for either side. Whedon's playing with the perspectives and questioning the very concepts that so many take for granted.
ANYA: You should've killed me.
D'HOFFRYN: Oh you needn't worry about that. From beneath you, it devours. All good things in time."
In the Star Trek Universe, Q once said similar sentiments to Picard. All good things must end. Whedon's universe may take the concept one step further.
[> [> [> [>
Re: All Good Things In Time... -- HonorH, 15:49:50 10/24/02 Thu
So it's okay for humans to kill all the demons they want, but one bad guy starts killing humans and there's a price to pay?
That's not what I'm saying at all, if you'll look at my post. What I'm saying is that when demons get destructive, it's up to the Slayer to protect human life. Furthermore, wasn't it Buffy herself who tried to disabuse Riley of the notion, "Humans good, demons bad" (New Moon Rising)? This is something she's known for years. That's why she concentrates on taking out the ones who are being actively destructive.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: All Good Things In Time... -- Finn Mac Cool, 18:49:14 10/24/02 Thu
I don't remember which poster said this, but I think what she said applies here:
Vampires and demons have the right to kill humans for their food or pleasure. However, humans have the right to kill vampires and demons in order to preserve their own lives.
[> [> [> [> [> [>
Or protect the lives of others. -- HonorH, 18:51:20 10/24/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [>
Rights alone are not enough. Might MAKES Right... -- ZachsMind, 19:50:47 10/24/02 Thu
"Vampires and demons have the right to kill humans for their food or pleasure. However, humans have the right to kill vampires and demons in order to preserve their own lives."
Well said, but we can't say that... Black hats don't have the right, and neither do white hats. It's not a matter of rights. It SHOULD be, and in an idealistic world it would be, but it's not.
Baddies don't have the right to kill humans. If they did, there wouldn't be Slayers and Demon Hunters and Good ex-baddies or reformed baddies or whatever beating up on the baddies and stripping them of these so called rights. And simultaneously, there'd be no need for goodies to defend themselves if they had the right to survive unimpeded. We've already seen in "The Wish" that sans Buffy's power to protect them, Willow & Xander turn into fresh meat on the chopping block. Do weak people only have a right to live when strong people are around and no rights when they are not?
If that's the case, it's not a matter of right. It's a matter of might.
It's why there's absolute morality AND more subjective, case by case morality. And a constant desire to attain the balance. In America, we have a constitution, and in the preamble it speaks of inalienable rights which no human being should have taken from them. However, might is required in order to protect those rights, because there's bastards out there dead set on taking away other people's rights to increase their own freedoms and power.
In Buffy's universe, XANDER represents the extreme on one side of the spectrum. Spike & Angel are vampires. Therefore they are evil. Willow and Anya are people Xander loves. Therefore they are ultimately good. If Spike does something good or Willow does something evil, that doesn't change the rules from Xander's perspective, and his opinions have been consistent for seven years. He STILL has not resolved within himself the Jessie phenomenon: his best friend turned into a vampire, and he was forced to kill him. Actually, Jessie was inadvertently PUSHED into the stake Xander held in his hand, so Xander didn't make this decision. It was made for him. He's been struggling with this for seven years and still hasn't come to a resolution within himself, as was evident in "Selfless" with Anya.
The MASTER is the opposite side of this morality spectrum. If someone succeeds in helping him personally, they're good. If they fail him, they're evil and therefore must be disposed. The Master changes his opinion with the breeze, depending on how it best suits him. This sense of AMORAL behavior doesn't work for society as a whole, but for a brief time it seems to suit the individual practicing it. Just like absolute morality like Xander's, it's irrational and unstable.
BUFFY is attempting to stand in between these two extremes to find the fair and just answers. To attain a rational and stable balance between the two. If everyone had the right to live and let die, I mean if that actually WORKED, there would be no need for Buffy in her reality, or law enforcement and military entities in our morality.
Going back to the lion/hyena comparison, SOMEHOW a balance is maintained between hyenas & lions because in the Africa wilderness, without human intervention, somehow both species are able to co-exist indefinitely, without one gaining ground over the other. There may be increases and decreases of population in specific areas, but prior to human observation or intervention, both species have thrived despite their intent to eradicate one another. HOW this happens is still unknown, but it WORKS for them. It doesn't work for humans in our reality when we fight amongst ourselves, and it doesn't work for the human vs demon battles we witness in the BuffyVerse. Again, otherwise, The Slayer wouldn't be needed. There wouldn't be demons like Whistler in "Buffy" & Doyle in the Angel series to help maintain the balance.
There wouldn't be a need to back up the right with might.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Uneasy with the lion/hyena analogy -- HonorH, 21:05:01 10/24/02 Thu
I guess it's just because I like to think of humans as being different than animals. So I'm going to throw that analogy right out and say instead:
*Were* there a way for humans and Buffyverse demons to live alongside each other in peace, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, too many demons have an instinct to kill humans/end the world for fun and profit. That's why the Slayer is needed. I don't agree, however, that she should be killing harmless demons. For one, they've got as much right to exist as anything in the Buffyverse. For another, more pragmatically, it takes up too much of Buffy's time and energy. If she declares all-out war against the demons, they'll declare all-out war on her, and innocents will get caught in the crossfire. Therefore, she has to pick and choose her targets and let her presence be enough of a threat to intimidate evil types into inactivity or leaving.
When it comes to humans, of course, Buffy doesn't have the power. She stated as much. When a human does something wrong, they should be subject to human justice. When a demon does something wrong (i.e. kills humans, to simplify the definition), they're subject to supernatural justice: the Slayer.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
For more on that... -- Rob, 07:31:48 10/25/02 Fri
Check out note #9R on the Puppet Show notes of my Annotated Buffy site. I am constantly amazed how episodes from the first season touch on themes still being explored on the show today.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
rob, is it too late for an addendum to an annotation? (stop me before i say diegesis!) -- anom, 11:44:29 10/25/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
No, please go ahead! I'll add whatever you've got to say. ;o) -- Rob, 20:04:53 10/25/02 Fri
[>
Did you guys notice? Symbols in "Selfless" (spoilers) -- Scroll, 07:39:07 10/25/02 Fri
Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd tack this on since these are my own random thoughts. But I rewatched "Selfless" and noticed a really interesting thing in that short scene of Buffy in her counsellor's office.
Close up shot of a red pencil cup, full of yellow pencils (the kind you sharpen), and one black pen. The pencil cup is rotating slowly, wobbling. Camera pulls back to reveal Buffy's forehead. She's trying to balance the cup while spinning in her chair. Bored much? Phone rings. Buffy is startled, sits up, pencil cup loses balance and tumbles to the floor.
For the majority of this episode, Willow is dressed in red. Xander wears a yellow/brown coat. Buffy is dressed in black.
Earth-magic Willow, big with Gaia and the root system, is the red cup that holds all the pencils. She takes over for Tara as earth mother. Xander, our Everyman, is the pencil. Wooden pencils for our carpenter. There are many Xanders in the world, some point up, some showing their red eraser tops. Buffy is the Slayer, dark and singular. One pen, alone, among all those pencils.
The red pencil cup, with those yellow pencils and that one black pen, cannot keep its balance. It crashes to the floor, scattering its contents. Is Giles represented by Buffy's forehead? Or am I just insane?
On Buffy's desk is a small statuette of some goddess, seated. I can't tell who it is, but it didn't look Greek. Possibly Egyptian? Would fit in with the Egyption history from "Help". Is she Innana as some posters have speculated?
When D'Hoffryn tells Aud that she will avenge wronged women and punish evil men, we see a tree in the distance crash to the ground. Vengeance wreaks destruction. The tree toppling over, from vertical to horizontal -- a phallic symbol? The men will cower before Anyanka's power.
When Willow confronts Anya in her apartment, we see Anya -- and behind her, framing her upper body, we see a triangular wooden panel. Representing her three selves: Aud/Anyanka/Anya? Or is it as HonorH said, and the three aspects of the woman: maiden/mother/crone? Is it Anya/Buffy/Willow? Or Xander/Buffy/Willow?
Willow wears a black pendant necklace that is reminiscent of Anya and Halfrek's wish amulets. Reminding us that Willow isn't as far off from being a vengeance demon as she would like us to think?
Please share your symbol catches, no matter how crazy they may seem!
[> [>
Sorry, I just can't resist this... ;-) -- Humanitas, 14:57:22 10/25/02 Fri
Earth-magic Willow, big with Gaia and the root system, is the red cup that holds all the pencils. She takes over for Tara as earth mother.
Except that with her going all black-eyed and "Will you quit you whining," she's more like the Earth Mommie-Dearest!
OK, I know, bad joke, but it ran through my head and I felt the need to share the pain. ;-)
[> [>
Not exactly Symbolism, but.... [spoilers] -- monsieurxander, 15:11:48 10/25/02 Fri
It did seem ironic that Halfrek, someone who had become so accustomed to wreaking vengeance, became the object of the very wrath she has been inflicting all these years...
[>
Re: An odd thought (Spoilers upto "Selfless") -- Alvin, 00:01:08 10/26/02 Sat
I just an odd thought about "beneath you it devours". What if what it refers to is what everyone keeps hidden down in their psyche? So many people have commented about how Buffy is in full slayer mode, that she's cut off from her heart. Buffy is dominated by being the slayer, Willow (briefly) lets out her dark-eyed uber witch, and vengence demon Anya lets out her inner human. Perhaps the morphing enity from Lessons is egging on everyone's worst qualities (or perhaps magnifing one aspect of their personalities). The only one who seems unaffected is Xander. Did anyone else get the feeling he was going to offer himself as a sacrifice to d'Hoffryn to save Anya? Xander was always taking the extreme viewpoint (all vamps are evil and must be killed) while here he was trying to bridge the differences between Anya and Buffy. It's hard to imagine the old Xander being willing to tackle Buffy like that to save a demon.
The inflicting misery game -- Pilgrim, 15:33:51 10/24/02 Thu
I'm not sure why my mind went here, but this afternoon I started amusing myself by trying to imagine the most horrible misery I could inflict on my (currently) favorite fictional characters. It was tough, since Joss and ME already have inflicted much misery on Buffy et al. But it's a horrow show, right? And there's always room for more misery. The rules I imagined for myself were that (1) the misery and horror had to have very little, if any, redemptive possibility--in other words, no noble self-sacrifice or the like, and (2) the series ends this season--no worrying about whether Buffy or others come back in this show or a spin off.
So here goes:
1. Buffy: I think the worst for Buffy would be if she ends up all alone. Her fear that no one can love her because she, as the slayer, is unloveable actually proves true. One by one, during the season, her support network slips away. Dawn is killed, not for any reason but because Buffy misjudges or gets careless and takes kid sister along for one too many stake-outs. Xander, Willow, and Anya go away for their own miserable reasons (see below), Spike ends up dead (see below), and Giles--well, I can't bear to torture Giles, so we'll pass over him. Perhaps in her final battle, Buffy suffers some physical injury that, while not removing her extraordinary physical powers, makes it impossible for her to use those powers. Sorry, but what I'm thinking is too gruesome to actually write--leaving the rest to your imaginations. The Big Bad wins (or gives up for some reason) and Buffy is left alone in her freakish misery.
2. Xander: Through inexcusable negligence, Xander builds a building that falls down or does something bad (hey, I'm not an structural engineer) so that a person or persons are killed. The State of California prosecutes him for involuntary manslaughter or something and he's convicted, proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he is incompetent in the one thing he thought he could do well. In prison, he is not able to help Buffy in her final show-down with the Big Bad and unavailable to provide friendly big-brotherly comfort.
3. Willow: Having trouble here. What could happen to Williow that would be more misery-inducing than what happened last year?
4. Spike: He is possessed by the Big Bad, so that he works on its behalf and against Buffy. He knows what he is doing, he wants to stop himself, but he does not have the power to overcome the evil possessing him. Spike strikes me as a character who, first and foremost, really wants to control his own destiny--at least make his own choices, make things happen. I'm going to deny him that agency. He tries to kill Buffy, but she kills him first, defending herself. Spike turns to dust knowing that he has betrayed his beloved one, that such was not his desire, but that he had no control over his actions.
5. Anya: Discovers that she can't stand being alone and marries a wealthy man who defines her every move. Yeeech.
6. Dawn: Nope, can't torture the perky sixteen-year-old. I'll just kill her off to serve the need for creating horror for Buffy.
7. Giles: As stated, can't do it.
Now, I don't actually want any of this stuff to happen. If these characters are going to suffer, I want it to be for a redemptive purpose. Still . .
[>
Finishing what you started... -- ZachsMind, 15:57:36 10/24/02 Thu
WILLOW: "What could happen to Williow that would be more misery-inducing than what happened last year?" Easy. She loses Willow once and for all. She turns cold & heartless. She becomes Old Anya. D'Hoffryn convinces her to become a vengeance demon, and innocent little crayon breaky Willow is forever silenced. No passing go or collecting $200.00 for season one Willow.
DAWN: Temporal Police come from the future to capture Dawn because her very presence has caused a rupture in the space-time continuum, resulting in the brain cancer of her adopted mother as only one of countless adverse repercussions. So the Temporal Police come to undo Dawn's very existence. When successful, Dawn is nothing but a green energy ball floating around the other Scoobies and everyone forgets her place in the timeline for the past three years. She's present but forgotten.
GILES: Buffy & the Scoobies successfully close the Hellmouth and all evil demons who have interests in committing wanton destruction are irrevocably removed from this plane of existence without Giles' participation or even his need to be present. All prophecies are resolved irrevocably or made null & void, and the planet Earth becomes a utopian paradise where nothing bad ever happens to anybody ever. The Slayer no longer has anyone to beat up on. The Watcher's Council disbands, having no one or nothing of merit to watch.
Poor Giles wouldn't know what to do with himself.
[>
Ever considered a career as a demon? -- Honorificus (The Pleasingly Perky One), 15:59:09 10/24/02 Thu
Really, dear, I think you've got the potential. I'd certainly love to see all of the above. The Twerp, of course, must die a particularly unpleasant death, witnessed by Buffy. Perhaps Willow could get taken over by the Big Bad and kill her. Yes, that *would* be most satisfying . . .
As for Giles, I'll keep him. He'll be miserable, I'm sure, but I'll be very, very happy.
[>
i know how to make one of these even worse -- anom, 19:36:40 10/24/02 Thu
"4. Spike: He is possessed by the Big Bad, so that he works on its behalf and against Buffy. He knows what he is doing, he wants to stop himself, but he does not have the power to overcome the evil possessing him....He tries to kill Buffy, but she kills him first, defending herself. Spike turns to dust knowing that he has betrayed his beloved one, that such was not his desire, but that he had no control over his actions."
And he had no way to let Buffy know he was acting involuntarily. He dies knowing she believes he betrayed her deliberately. Hmm, but of course, it's worse for her if she knows he didn't want to attack her & has to kill him anyway. How to choose...?
[> [>
Oh it's a lot easier than that... -- ZachsMind, 20:15:09 10/24/02 Thu
They just need to do a scene from Spike's perspective, where he literally sees the ceiling open up and reveal to him the stars in the sky. He'll think of Drusilla. Then he probably won't stop screaming for oh, about FORTY YEARS.
[> [>
Both, of course -- auroramama, 10:21:21 10/25/02 Fri
The method of choice is: he attacks Buffy; Buffy stakes him; as he begins to crumble, the Big Bad looses its grip, allowing him to say her name so tenderly that she realizes the truth; but he's gone before he can see her expression change, much less tell him she understands. That takes care of both of them.
I say "method of choice" because I personally have the plotting ability of a walnut; this is very lightly adapted from another fandom's canon.
auroramama
[>
Giles -- sick, sick Autochtone, 06:22:19 10/25/02 Fri
Ethan comes back for Giles, enslaves him with a spell and spends an eternity tortuting him with lies and truth about what happened to the scoobies because of Giles' abandonment and keeps him his forever.
[> [>
Re: Giles -- monsieurxander, 14:49:02 10/25/02 Fri
Oooh... Will there be whips and chains? And a branding iron? ;)
ATPOBTVS: THE MUSICAL - part one -- Dedalus, 16:56:33 10/24/02 Thu
FICTIONARY CORNER
EVENT
AN EXISTENTIAL SCOOBY
PRODUCTION
ATPOBTVS: THE MUSICAL
Brought to you by: Dedalus
Disclaimer: Well, this is it. This is what I think would happen if everyone who went to post on the ATPoBtVS forum spontaneously burst into song and dance. This is rooted pretty solidly in "Once More With Feeling," although obviously with new, rewritten songs and many more characters. I'm surprised I got as many names in as I did, but to get everyone would have been a feat too much for me. Posters not directly appearing in the musical or the cast are still mentioned. This is filled with in-jokes from everything to our chat room to the show itself. I think of it as an affectionate comedy, and it is dedicated to Existential Scoobies everywhere. The music that should be playing in your heads as you read is courtesy of Joss Whedon.
Cast: Age, Agent156, Anom, Anthony8, Aquitaine, Collinwood, Dead Soul, Deeva, Dedalus, d'Herblay, Dichotomy, Dochawk, Julia, LadyStarlight, Liquidram, Little Bit, Masquerade, Mundusmundi, NightRepair, OnM, Rahael, Redcat, Rob, Ronia, Rufus, Shadowcat, Sheri, Solitude1056, Spotjon, Sully, VampRiley, Wisewoman, Zargon, and reintroducing the Trollbot.
ONCE MORE IN CYBERSPACE
Part One
Setting: The Internet
INT. An ATPoBtVS Bedroom
Our tale begins in a cyber-bedroom, one that is decorated trendily as well as tastefully. A cyberclock suddenly goes off, disrupting the silence. There is movement under the covers of the bed. A very blurry-eyed Masquerade emerges, only to just lean over and hit the snooze button. She's obviously not quite ready for another day on the voy boards with her faithful crew of intrepid Buffy philosophers.
INT. The ATPoBtVS House
The digital residence of all the Existential Scoobies. The walls, the ceilings, and even the floors are all white, looking not unlike the loading program from "The Matrix." The furniture in each room is mostly confined to beds, dressers, and the occasional vanity mirror.
All throughout the big house the Existential Scoobies are either still snuggled in their little beds (but not together!) (well, usually) or just waking up to face another day. A few are in the process of wiping the sleep out of their eyes and the dust out of their enormous brains. As always, this crew has got a very big day ahead of them, for it is their destiny to fill the internet with their knowledge - or at the very least baffle it with bullshit.
(Just between us, most of the time it's the latter)
Anyway, a poster named Rahael is brushing her hair in one room, while one called NightRepair is making up her bed in another. A girl named Julia is trying to get in the bathroom downstairs, but a vain little guy known as Dedalus is hogging it as always, prettying himself up. A poster known as d'Herblay is taking far too much time deciding which leather jacket he should wear that day, while his friend LittleBit is already out the door and ready to go. In one room, a boy named Rob is still fast asleep, tuckered out from his non-stop Buffy cheerleading.
EXT. The Posting Board
Just a modem's throw away from the Scooby house is the posting board itself, where all the intellectual action happens. Like everything else, it's a rather conspicuous shade of white. It's only real distinguishing features are the computer consoles that are placed all over it, though it also has a nice meeting area and countless bookshelves that are constantly used for scholarly research. A few pictures are on the walls, either of Friedrich Nietzsche or a shirtless James Marsters. One post is already heading for the internet, and it's titled "Willow and Wittgenstein."
Several posters are already logged onto the board, but not all are working. A girl named Zargon is kindly putting an afghan over the shoulders of a prolific writer called Shadowcat, who once again has fallen asleep in a book the night before and is still dozing peacefully. Two fiancees known as Mundusmundi and Aquitaine are idly flipping through the latest issue of "Existential Scooby Weddings." A poster named Collinwood is there too, organizing the next Dragoncon meet for the coming year, which anyone reading this should be thinking about attending.
Anyway, as everyone slowly gets awake enough to log on to the board, d'Herblay finally arrives now that he's got a cool leather jacket to his liking. Before he can even sit down to type, however, he spots an oddly gnarled figure on the outskirts of the board - one that is carrying what appears to be a fishing pole. He can only shake his head, for he's been around long enough to know what that means. He hopes that Masquerade is finally out and about so she can take care of it.
EXT. The Archives
Masquerade is indeed up, though yawning rather widely. She is stealthily making her way among the graves of posts long since archived. They don't inspire her as they once did, and she doesn't know why. Her responsibilities are pretty involving, especially with the troll population on the rise. It is rare that she feels like this, but sometimes she does. However, she never suddenly breaks into song about it, which is exactly what she does this morning.
Masquerade: Every single line the same philosophizing
Shippers only whine then pine.
I can hardly stand all this trivializing -
No post here is good, no post here is fine.
From behind an archived post, three trolls suddenly attack, but she continues singing as she fights with them. The choreography is really impressive.
Masquerade: I've been conducting polls and banning trolls
Without getting on any rolls
For I've been surfing through the archives
Skimming down the post.
Nothing even inspires me as the host!
I was always smart and quite intellectual
Now I find it all boring.
Log on to your site you find this type
Just doesn't mean a thing.
Trolls: Your posts don't have much zing!
Masquerade: Now your neck I'll wring!
Trolls: Yes we're pretty pale, we're trolls from hell
And as we spam e-mail,
She's just surfing through the archives
Banning us for show.
She's not even half the philosopher - nooo!
Grabbing the last troll by the ear, Masquerade casually tosses him off the site and walks on, spotting a lovely lass tied to a digital tree. She goes to free her.
Masquerade: Will I host this way forever?
Surf right through the posts whenever?
Newly Freed Lass: How can I relay -
Masquerade: Real clever.
I don't like this way!
Surfing through the archives
Not interested anymore.
I can't post and play!
I may as well go read Fray!
And I don't want hosting to be a chore!!!
The music dies out as magically as it began, and Masquerade gives a little sigh before going back to work on the archives.
EXT. The Posting Board
An hour or so passes, and things are beginning to get a bit tense for our heroes, the Existential Scoobies. Some old posters have logged off, and some new ones have logged on. Before long a poster named LadyStarlight comes in, and she finds a full house. A reviewer named OnM is there, working diligently on his Movie of the Week. Wisewoman is there as well, flipping though strange mystic cards. Two posters called Dochawk and Sheri are conversing about the latest episode of Buffy, while LittleBit and Collinwood are still talking about Robin Sachs and his pricey autographs. A chatter named Sully is sitting quietly in a corner.
Everyone responds to the newcomer in near unison.
All: Hello, LadyStarlight!
LadyStarlight: How is everyone doing?
Dochawk: We're doing!
LittleBit: And we're still out fifteen dollars!
OnM: Look, at least you got to go to Dragoncon. You even got to hang out with Dedalus! What more do you want?
LittleBit thought a moment, and then conceded the point.
Sheri: Say, did anyone read Rufus' latest post? It was thought-provoking. It provoked my thoughts.
Wisewoman: Chocolate and cheekbones. It doesn't get any more Canadian than that.
LadyStarlight: Um, speaking of the board, has anyone had a problem, uh, posting recently?
Dochawk: Of course not! We all know how reliable voy is. That's crazy talk.
OnM: What kind of a problem could there possibly be? It's fine.
Sheri: And may I add a dandy?
LadyStarlight hesitated, but then cautiously pressed on.
LadyStarlight: So, when you guys went to post this morning, none of you, um, burst into song?
At this, all the defenses come down, and everyone starts talking at once.
Wisewoman: Great merciful Hera!
Sheri: Well, that would explain the synchronized chatting ...
Collinwood: I was wondering why the post I was working on kept rhyming ...
Dochawk: I hit "enter" and then there was all this guitar-work in the background ...
OnM: I just thought it was because I was posting about "The Wizard of Oz." I should have known forty-something system designers from Southeast Pennsylvania don't suddenly break into "Somewhere over the Rainbow" ....
LadyStarlight: Okay, well, now that that's settled, what is it? What's causing it?
LittleBit: That is the sixty-four thousand dollar question. Doc, do you have any idea?
Dochawk: Yes, as a matter of fact, I get cases like this all the time. Why just last week I got an entire football team full of kids who could suddenly perform entire symphonies at the drop of a hat!
LadyStarlight: Sarcasm isn't getting us anywhere.
Dochawk: No, but it's fun.
Collinwood: Look, none of us can even post like this! Everytime we try to submit something, we can't because we're too busy singing and dancing.
Sheri: Yes, I agree. And you know Buffy fans the internet over are counting on our admittedly mind-blowing thoughts. We have to figure out something before the music fairy decides to strike again. Now I for one -
Out of nowhere and without a hint of warning, the music fairy strikes again.
OnM: I've got a posting, that it's just a troll.
A tap-dancing troll? No, that doesn't sound okay.
Wisewoman: I've got a posting, that Joss is dreaming,
And we're all stuck inside his wacky Buffy Broadway!
Collinwood: I've got a posting we should chat this out!
LittleBit: I'm getting a little illy, what's this silly singing all about?
Dochawk starts off very enthusiastically, but quickly backs down after he gets a few dirty looks.
Dochawk: It could be shippers! Some Spuffy shippers!
Which is ridiculous cause we all know Buffy
Is but a minor footnote in Spike's hero journey
And sexy cheekbones and soul back and I'll be
Over here.
Sully timidly walks up as Dochawk takes his seat.
Sully: .
Sully: I've got a posting, it could be spammers.
This is totally ignored by everyone.
Sheri: I've got a posting -
Sully won't let it be ignored. A short rock and roll show erupts, complete with spotlights and fireworks.
Sully: Spammers are terrible and all their spam just lingers!
They've got them stupid grins and crooked little fingers!
And what's with all the keyboards?!
What do they need to type so many letters for anyway?!
Spammers, spammers, it must be spammers!!!!
The concert grinds to a halt and everyone is left looking at Sully.
Sully: ... or maybe toe goblins.
LittleBit: I've got a posting we should get up fast!
Collinwood: You forget we can't post until the music has passed.
LadyStarlight: I've got a posting, we can still analyze.
We can cut and paste if we're together.
What's in cyberspace we can't weather?
The board's down? We've all faced that.
The same old trolls. We can always go chat!
Everyone gets inspired during this one.
All: What can't we analyze in a minute?
We'll take every episode and then interpret.
We have to post. We'll pay the price.
It's post or be booted.
Sheri: Hey, I've been booted twice!
Now everyone stands up together, singing as if with one voice.
All: We can cut and paste if we're together.
What's in cyberspace we can't weather?
There's nothing we can't face -
Sully: Except for spammers.
They all sit back down and catch their breath.
OnM: Well, that was ... interesting.
Sheri: I thought it was sort of cool. I don't like spam either.
Dochawk: I just hope whoever's doing this hasn't seen "Dirty Dancing."
LadyStarlight: I see your point. But we still aren't any closer to figuring out what's even going on.
OnM: Well, this hasn't got me really quaking in my long yet quite readable posts, but we do need to get to the bottom of it.
Collinwood: Is it happening all over the internet, or just to us?
LittleBit: I'll go see. brb.
EXT. The Jedi Council Forums
LittleBit quickly surfs over to TheForce.net. When she logs on to the Jedi Council Forums, a fabulous sight unfolds before her eyes. Dozens of posters are in a neat triangle, all of them dressed up like Jedi knights or Sith lords. The one in front is holding up a picture of Jar Jar with an "X" painted over it.
LeadPoster: We think - Jar Jar Binks - Sucks!
All: We think Jar Jar Binks Sucks!!!!
During the crescendo, various posters are doing Force-enhanced flips and somersaults.
EXT. The Posting Board
LittleBit surfs back in to find the same crowd still there.
LittleBit: Looks like it's not just limited to us.
OnM: Hmmm. So, either it has nothing to do with the Existential Scoobies specifically, or -
Wisewoman: Or someone is indiscriminately casting spells.
Everyone turns and looks at her suspiciously.
Wisewoman: Something I know nothing about.
About this time, Ronia logs in, very excited.
Ronia: You guys are never going to believe what happened today!
All: You didn't get your ID yet and you still can't get on or off the base?
Ronia's smile fades, but then brightens quickly.
Ronia: Well, yeah. But today, I sang a song about it!
Dochawk: There seems to be a lot of that going around.
Ronia: So you guys too, huh?
LadyStarlight: Yes, indeed. And may I just add, for a bunch of geeks on the internet, we all seem to have surprisingly strong singing voices.
Everyone agrees with this, and the posters take a moment to compliment each other on their performances. However, OnM soon gives a nicely timed cough.
OnM: Okay then, back to business.
Sheri: Yeah. I wish d'Herblay and Rahael were here. They always have good advice. And Rah even went to Oxford.
Collinwood: I doubt things like this happen a lot at Oxford.
Sheri: Well, yeah, but you can never tell. So should someone try to e-mail them?
Suddenly, Rob appears, bouncing across the board. He does some impressive handstands and cartwheels, shouting as he goes.
Rob: Yeah! Buffy is the best show of all time! Yeah! It's awesome! Wowee!
LadyStarlight watches him flipping away, apparently concerned.
LadyStarlight: Maybe someone should look for d'Herblay and Rahael. This is getting a little strange.
OnM: What, you mean Rob? I wouldn't worry. He's like that all the time.
LadyStarlight: Oh.
EXT. A sunny bit of cyberspace close to a London chat room.
d'Herblay and Rahael are casually strolling away from the room, holding hands and all with the goo-goo eyes.
Rahael: I told Sheri we'd be over to the posting board right after I heard from her.
d'Herblay: As long as I don't have to sing.
Rahael: What about dancing?
d'Herblay: I've been known to cut a little rug every now and again.
Two conspiracy-haunted guys wearing long trenchcoats and buttons saying "The Truth is Out There" pass by. It is easy to see that they are sneaking glances at Rahael.
d'Herblay: Those guys must be on the way to the "X-Files" chat room. And they're completely checking you out.
Rahael notices d'Herblay looks totally shocked by this. Her expression gets all wounded.
Rahael: What, you can't believe those guys would look at me?
d'Herblay: Of course I can! I'm just amazed that anyone still goes to the "X-Files" chat room.
Rahael: Oh.
The two walk on a little more, spotting some posters dressed up like slave girl Princess Leia having a belly dancing contest.
Rahael: So, any ideas on what's going on?
d'Herblay: My only thought on the situation is that perhaps we've all listened to the "Once More with Feeling" CD so many times it's driven us mad.
Rahael: All of us? Simultaneously?
d'Herblay: That would further the theory that we all share the same brain ...
Rahael: Hmm ... so what do you think we would sing about if we had to?
d'Herblay: I can't even speculate.
Rahael: I just hope it wouldn't be a thirties-style retro pastiche that would never become a breakaway pop hit.
d'Herblay. Perish the thought.
Rahael: Still ... that doesn't mean I don't feel a number coming on.
d'Herblay: Try to suck in a breath.
Rahael: No such luck. You just have that effect on me.
He gives a sigh of resolve.
d'Herblay: Here we go ...
Music flows out of nowhere as natural as birdsong.
Rahael: I once posted in shadow, the web was such a dark place.
It didn't seem that strange, after all it was cyberspace.
Now my posts just glow - this is why that's so.
I've got your e-mail
Now every post I see, as if posted only for me.
The old web seems so stale.
Once you've set me free, always chatting privately.
I saw a web enchanted, pop-ups annoying no more.
What I always took for granted, now I can totally ignore.
For your post shined, as if every single word rhymed.
I've got your e-mail
Everything is so true now that my chats are with you.
You worked your words so well,
Every post I surf through seems infinitely new.
You helped me achieve!
At this point, d'Herblay is dancing also, and the two hold each other and spin and spin until they surf right into a private chat room.
Rahael: The sea to the coast, I chat with you the most.
I've got your e-mail
My heartstrings you pull, my e-box is so full.
I love every word you spell
So much to say, paging my little d'Herblay.
Never let me delete!
Rahael is really hitting some high notes now.
I'll never delete!
I'll never delete!
I'll never delete!
EXT. The Posting Board
Dochawk: You know, I bet they're not even coming over here.
Sheri: They said they were!
Dochawk: Yeah, but you know how that goes. Have you posted with them lately? They've got that whole Get a Chat Roominess vibe swinging.
LittleBit: Dochawk!
When she has his attention, she motions protectively over at Ronia who is now helping with the research.
Dochawk: Right. I meant, I'm sure they're on the case.
Ronia looks up, giving both of them a little smirk.
Ronia: Guys, I know about this stuff.
They don't seem to believe her.
Ronia: For heaven's sake, I've got two kids!
Both: Oh yeah.
LittleBit: Sorry!
Ronia: It's okay. And anyway, I don't see what's the big deal about this. It's just a lot of happy singing and dancing around. It'll wear off eventually. Besides, it makes even not having your ID fun.
Collinwood: Maybe, but remember what happened on the show?
LadyStarlight: Well, this is the internet. Hopefully nothing too bad can happen on here.
EXT. The Leaky Cauldron Forum
A young Harry Potter fan is at a computer console, and clearly something too bad is about to happen. He is dancing faster and faster with his feet, and typing faster and faster with his fingers. Unable to control himself, he dances and types in a wild frenzy. It goes on and on until the computer explodes, taking his head with it!
[>
"Yeah! This is the best post of all time! Yeah! It's awesome! Wowee!" -- Rob, 17:26:21 10/24/02 Thu
I didn't even mind being reduced to the role of comic relief. Although, if we were going to have an actual production of this, we may need to get a stunt double for the cartwheels and jumps and such. ;o)
Please say that I get to be the one who conjured the singing demon! Please!!! Can't wait to read (and sing along to) the rest!
Rob
[> [>
Re: "Yeah! This is the best post of all time! Yeah! It's awesome! Wowee!" -- LittleBit, 17:27:42 10/24/02 Thu
You won't be disappointed!!!
[> [>
Oh, and just for the record... -- Rob, 17:28:12 10/24/02 Thu
If I'd been drinking milk while I was reading the d'Herb/Rah love duet, that would have been about the time it would have been squirting out my nose lol.
Rob
[>
Very well done! -- Earl Allison, 17:46:06 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Re: ATPOBTVS: THE MUSICAL - part two -- Dedalus, 17:48:21 10/24/02 Thu
Part Two
EXT. A shady cyberspace vale
Redcat, NightRepair, and Zargon are coming back after checking out a potential lead on the other end of the internet. They walk along, talking about how they hit another dead end.
Redcat: Well, that was certainly a waste of my gargantuan feminist intellect.
NightRepair: And in all honesty, I really should be teaching class ...
Zargon: But, in times like these, we have to check out every possibility.
Redcat: Yeah, but Drizzt? I mean, I know he keeps trying to open up a portal to the Buffyverse, but that's never going to happen.
As they make their way back to the Posting Board, a blaze of light suddenly erupts behind them. They don't see the portal that opens and closes long enough for Buffy herself to fall through their dimension, only to fall back into yet another portal as quickly as she appeared. The two posters just walk on, oblivious.
Redcat: No way one of his magic experiments could have even worked, much less have caused all of this!
NightRepair: Yeah, you're probably right.
Zargon:Well, I guess we could have avoided that last little dance number had we realized that ahead of time.
Redcat: I'll never tell if you all won't.
NightRepair: I was dancin' crazy!
Redcat: Don't I know it! This whole thing's crazy. Just not of the norm at all. I had this whole dissertation on the latest episode all ready to go from last night, and I lost it because I was too busy spinning like a ballerina to hit "enter."
Zargon: That's horrible! But on the bright side, I heard the other guys talking about going to get Dedalus.
NightRepair: Ah. Bringing in the big guns.
Redcat: Great. That's just what we need. Him and his traditional feminine values.
EXT. The Posting Board
All the posters are sitting around looking quite nervous, as well as tired. The singing and dancing is really beginning to take its toll. Most are too scared to even think about typing, all too aware a symphony awaits whoever tries to do so. Some of the Existential Scoobies are taking a proactive stance, however.
We come to MundusMundi and Aquitaine, both of which are trying to keep up with d'Herblay as he paces about the outskirts of the board. They are all talking and being quite animated in their discussion. Some bad news has just been e-mailed in.
Mundusmundi: So, the guy was really missing his head? His head?
d'Herblay: Yes, there's no doubt about it. It happened over at the Leaky Cauldron. A computer blew up, and it took some poor lad with it.
Aquitaine: Now's not the time for people to lose their heads.
Mundusmundi: Does anyone suspect sabotage?
d'Herblay: Nobody knows what to suspect. So I think the important thing now is not to have panic. We really don't even know if the incident is related to the singing.
The three continue walking, and they pass right by Julia, who is pouring her heart out to a busted air conditioner that refuses to work. They calmly pass by as if nothing is happening.
Julia: I'm having such a hot hot day!
Come on, send some cool air my way!
I'm not asking you for snow!
But this heat is more than I can bear!
There is no air condition anywhere!
This simply isn't fair!
Why won't you let it flow?
Then I'll go away I swear!
The three Existential Scoobies keep on pacing, their discussion growing more intense.
Mundusmundi: But we have to do something.
Aquitaine: I agree. When people's heads are being blown off, not a very good time for inaction.
d'Herblay: And just what would you two suggest? Any move we make is liable to set off an orchestra. The whole internet has become a musical time-bomb.
As if to illustrate his point, they pass by Deeva, Dichotomy, and Dead Soul. All three of them are at computer consoles, but instead of standing there they're dancing, kicking up their legs in perfect synchrony. Each are likewise typing on the keyboards just as one would play a piano. They've really got rhythm, but it's commonplace by now.
Mundusmundi: Has anyone tried to get a hold of Dedalus yet?
d'Herblay: He's been in chat for a long while now. I'm not sure if he's any good to anyone.
Aquitaine: But I heard LittleBit and Anom and some others talking about trying to get him out of there. It might help.
d'Herblay: And what is he going to do? Write an essay?
INT. The Chat Room
LittleBit, Julia, Anom, Rahael, and a poster with a guitar named Anthony8 all log on to the ATPoBtVS chat room. The room is rather large, with countless desks boasting shiny computers sitting on every one of them. No one is there except for the guy they're looking for. Dedalus is hunched over a screen, staring at the names that have suddenly appeared on it. LittleBit cautiously approaches.
LittleBit: Hey, Ded.
Dedalus takes awhile to respond. First he produces a half-empty liter of Coca-Cola and drinks from it. His eyes are red, and he looks really wired. He's been down there chatting with himself all day.
Dedalus: Well, the gang's all here. Nice of y'all to drop by. To what do I owe the pleasure?
Anom: Um, to be honest, we wanted to know if you had any information on what's going on.
Dedalus: Ah, so that's it. You didn't want to check up on me, you didn't want to know if I was okay down here, you just came to see what I knew. Typical.
Julia: Don't say that! And by the way, I still don't have an air conditioner.
Dedalus: Well it's bloody time you did! Now, if everyone is ready to go -
Anom: We just got here!
Rahael: Yeah, we'll stay and chat awhile.
Dedalus gets up, and from the look on his face, you can tell he doesn't buy it.
Dedalus: Right. That's what you say now. Pretty soon, all of you will be surfing on other sites, and I'll be chatting with myself again. I know the way most of you people "chat."
LittleBit: Don't say that.
Dedalus: Oh yeah. Why don't all of you just go and have a private chat somewhere. There's the "log off" button. Help yourself.
Rahael: Come on, we want you to go back to the Posting Board with us.
Julia: Yeah, we all know you've had such a bad time posting, maybe you could give us some insight into this musical nightmare.
Dedalus: Ha! I knew it!
LittleBit: Ded, what is your problem? Just tell us.
Stomping over to the "log off" button, Dedalus is about to punch himself out, but hesitates. He looks back as if something is pulling him back. Anthony8 has been in the background all this time, but as if on cue, his fingers start playing his guitar.
Dedalus: I posted too many months ago
But chat can make me feel like it isn't so.
Just why you came to talk to me I already know.
Mmmmmmm.
You're confused, ashamed that you can't post.
And so you come straight to me, I've dealt with it the most.
You whisper in a Ded-Man's ear, knowing I can't even boast.
That's fine, but I'm not gonna play.
Posting with you guys gets to me, more than I'll say.
Since I'm just Ded to you, so then get away.
And let me chat in peace.
By the second verse, Dedalus has shocked everyone by grabbing a modem and smashing it into a wall. The volume goes up quite a few notches.
Dedalus: Let me chat in peace! I know I need some sleep!
I should take my mouse and bury it in a hole six foot deep!
I can put my keyboard down but I can't log my sweet release!
So let me chat in peace!
The group is about to leave at this point, but Dedalus blocks the exit and keeps singing.
Dedalus: You know, this room is my prison.
I'm here every single night until the sun is risen.
So I'm tellin' you and only you
That up you better listen!
And let me chat in peace!
I should stop and log off.
Yet here I sit, a poster possessed.
There's a chatter here beneath my breast.
I'm addicted more than you ever guessed.
If I would just leave it would be for the best
So here you are around my desk.
Just leave me be -
Dedalus then jumps up onto a console, and he kicks a computer right onto the floor, where it explodes in a million sparks. Everyone jumps back.
Dedalus: And let me chat in peace! I know I need some sleep!
I should take my mouse and bury it in a hole six foot deep!
I can put my keyboard down but I can't log my sweet release!
So let me chat in peace!
Why won't you let me chat in peace?!
Dedalus then slumps against a desk, thoroughly exhausted.
Anthony8 stops playing, and the women don't seem very impressed.
Julia: Are you quite done?
Dedalus doesn't answer. LittleBit gives him an exasperated look.
LittleBit: So are you coming with us or what?
Dedalus: Oh, all right. Let me get my Coke.
EXT. The Posting Board
By the time everyone logs back on to the posting board, things are in turmoil. Yet another poster - this time on Usenet - has lost his post as well as his life. The Existential Scoobies are trying to keep their cool, but the rest of the internet is in chaos, albeit extraordinarily well-choreographed chaos. Anyway, no one knows who's next. Masquerade has assigned everyone to the bookshelves to research the situation, yet so far, no one has come up with anything.
d'Herblay and Dedalus are at a table together, though the former gets angry when he notices the latter is again reading "The Hero With a Thousand Faces." Dedalus defends himself, and from the look on d'Herblay's face, he has obviously been talking a really long time.
Dedalus: - see, what Joseph Campbell was saying is that myth is really a metaphor for life itself. It's not just outdated science or anything like that. It's about how we - each and every one of us - can employ ancient stories by which we can access our total potential. That's what myth is all about. It's a reflection of the spiritual potentialities of the entire human race. It's sort of like a collective dream that we all share. And by reading and studying those old stories that are inspired by the harmony of the cosmos, we can all -
d'Herblay: Oh shut up.
INT. The Chat Room
After spending hours researching the musical mayhem to no avail, LittleBit and Ronia log on to the chat room and are sitting there talking.
LittleBit: I can't believe it!
Ronia: Well, I really found it.
LittleBit: You better not let Masq find out that you weren't studying up on these odd opera incidents, but I'm happy for you!
Ronia: Yep, my unicorn bedspread is on the way!
Then Ronia became a bit gloomier.
Ronia: Now, if I can only not lose my head in cyberspace, everything will be just spiffy.
LittleBit: Indeed.
Ronia: Not to change the subject, but what did Dedalus sing about down here when y'all came? I heard he sang.
LittleBit: He wanted to chat in peace.
Ronia: Did the chatting get all sexy?
LittleBit: No. Well ... sort of.
Ronia: He must not have been wearing the evil jacket.
LittleBit: No, it was the non-evil one.
Ronia: That's happy. You know I told him to burn the evil one.
LittleBit: Did you specify that he should take it off first?
Ronia: Of course. What do you take me for?
LittleBit: I know! Listen, I better log off. We need to get to work again on this stuff.
Ronia: No, don't go! Then I'll be here all alone!
LittleBit: You'll be fine! I promise I'll check back in soon.
LittleBit soon logs out, and Ronia is left there, staring into cyberspace. After spending a curious amount of time idly playing with her long hair, she can't resist slipping into a melancholy little ditty.
Ronia: No one is here to chat with me.
Will anyone ever log on?
Her song is interrupted when she thinks she hears something over her shoulder. She hasn't noticed before, but the empty chat room is kind of spooky. And what's even spookier is that it's not as empty as it should be! Ronia finds this out when she turns around and finds herself looking into the blank eyes of three troll henchmen.
Ronia: Rats.
The three henchmen work fast, logging her away to who knows where.
[> [>
Author! Author! -- HonorH, 18:21:19 10/24/02 Thu
Loving this! Please post the rest soon (or at least before Honorificus gets to harping on how she's not included).
[> [>
This is too much! I throw myself to the floor in adulation!! -- ponygirl, 18:54:27 10/24/02 Thu
[> [>
LOVE IT! Cool! I'm a dancer--dancin' crazy! -- Dichotomy, 19:22:04 10/24/02 Thu
"Whisper in a Ded-man's ear" cracked me up and I really loved Rah and dH's love song. Is there more wonderfulness to come? Can't wait!
[> [>
Brovo, Brovo!!!!!! -- Wolfhowl3, 19:56:11 10/24/02 Thu
[> [>
OK, I'm hooked! -- Deb, 22:26:14 10/24/02 Thu
I've only been around here for a few days,
but there is something that I just have to say.
This is the strangest board I've ever seen.
Could there be something -- "unusual" about all your genes?
Who are you people --
obviously well read,
who quote Joseph Campbell,
off the top of your heads?
And who are these trolls?
Are they running a scam?
They don't carry molds -- ewww....
Encrypted within spams?
I stopped posting tomes, was it three years ago?
It was the DS9 board, fragmented by BB&B egos.
An oath I took, that day so dark
Never again would I post and then park!
But something feels -- different.
I sense it in the aire.
Are my odds quite sufficient?
Do I even consider to dare?
That the powers that be,
who keep track of this board,
will cast in favor of me,
and allow me to post?
Just one bit of advice to those who think twice,
That Buffy, the heroine, is not considered as "nice."
But nice is a -- "sweet" term for young girls in bows.
You call me "nice" -- I'll slap you out the nearest window.
Buffy is cool -- my daughter's television role model.
But Spike is much more -- what a woman would fondle.
He may not be perfect, but he's not totally bad.
So leave Randy alone! --
Or I'll just have to get Joan on the phone.
Bloody Bad Poet's Society
[> [>
Hey! I'm in this! And as a dancer, too.! -- Deeva, 08:15:30 10/25/02 Fri
It's like one of my "when-I-grow-up-I-wanna-be" things! I'm just so happy that I've got a cameo. Mr. Ded, I'm ready for my close up.
[> [>
Ho'omaika'i!!! Very well done!! -- (one of) the gargantuan feminist intellect(s), loving this!, 10:09:58 10/25/02 Fri
[>
I feel cheated.....I never got to sing...even once......<g>...just invade your thoughts...;) -- Rufus, 18:28:49 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Words can't express my enjoyment. It is so very cool. -- Arethusa, 19:14:29 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Loved the ending -- VR, 19:38:27 10/24/02 Thu
[>
Re: ATPOBTVS: THE MUSICAL - part three -- Dedalus, 19:39:43 10/24/02 Thu
Part Three
INT. The Bronze Board
A few hours have passed, and Ronia awakens to find herself in a strange new site. She's laying on a table, but she knows she better get away as quickly as possible, so she doesn't lay there for long. When she goes to move, she finds her movements uncommonly graceful, and then she hears music in the background.
As soon as she goes to run away, the troll henchmen come back, and all four of them compliment each other nicely as they go through a rather mesmerizing bit of ballet. They go round and round, all their moves precise yet fluid. One troll grabs her and spins her around on the floor, and she lands with such force that she slides all the way to the steps of a stage.
There, two feet are at her eye level. They are wearing some really slick tap dancing shoes, and the person wearing them knows how to make them move. Ronia catches a breath when she looks up and finally sees who is behind all of this. It's the old nemesis of the Existential Scoobies. VampireHunterD.
VampireHunterD: Why'd you log off? Don't you touch that dial!
No need to sit and scoff. I've picked up some great style!
He begins to dance, and boy can he ever. Ronia just looks on, obviously bewildered.
VampireHunterD: I know I've built the anticipation
Cause I'm the troll god incarnation.
Don't give me the brush off. Why don't we chat awhile?
Here I'm the real host, I've got all that clout.
When you gotta post, when ya gotta print it out!
They came to me and all started blamin'
But I've got the music - I bring the flames in.
Now we're chattin', this is what it's all about!
Cuz I know what you post Ron!
I know just what you post Ron!
Ronia: So, you're still an angry troll? Bringing the flames in?
VampireHunterD: All these philosophies have gone on too long.
Now my music is drowning them cause it's just so wrong.
All those unread posts sitting there rustin'
Plus some posters look like they're about to start bustin'
That's the price you pay when voy is but a song!
VampireHunterD slides over closer to Ronia, who tries to hold him at bay with a cross.
VampireHunterD: So this is my net and since you owe a debt
After we jump this ride
Back we will go to my basement below
And there you'll be my bride!
Cuz I know what you post -
Ronia: Now see here, I smell beer
I'm going to start quakin'
VampireHunterD: I'll make it real!
Ronia: Don't be sore, I'm twenty-four
And I'm already taken!
VampireHunterD: I can make whole sites start to crumble
And still have time to do a little rumble!
Ronia: For pete's sake you can't just take
Like I'm some kind of booty!
VampireHunterD: Troubles comin', this place is burning
I keep playin' while the net keeps turning!
Ronia: They'll be pissed if I'm dissed
I'm an Existential Scooby!
The music suddenly dies out and VampireHunterD stops dancing all over the stage. He gives Ronia a surprised glance.
VampireHunterD: They will?
Ronia: Yu-huh.
The troll master calls one of his henchmen over.
VampireHunterD: Go and let our little Buffy philosophers know where we are. I want them to come here. Then the real chat can begin!
EXT. The Posting Board
Unaware of what is happening, our heroes the Existential Scoobies are trying to find out where their comrade Ronia is. Dedalus is talking to Mundusmundi.
Dedalus: Look, it's one thing for Ronia to not have her ID. It's another thing completely when she disappears altogether!!
Mundusmundi: I agree! But do you really think this is the answer?
He motions over to the Trollbot that Dedalus is taking out of storage.
Dedalus: I know Trollbot has had some flaws, but right now, I don't know what else to do.
Mundusmundi: Sol is going to be pissed.
Dedalus: I know, but what can you do?
Mundusmundi spots a few black puddles around Trollbot. He points to them.
Mundusmundi: Is that oil it's leaking?
Dedalus: Of course it's oil. It's always got to be oil.
Mundusmundi: Of yeah, I forgot.
Dedalus: Hand me that sparkplug.
Even with the leaky oil, the two fix up the Trollbot with minimum effort, and after a bit of wielding, it is re-activated. It has a big grin on its face.
Trollbot: Dedalus! You're wearing your coat!
Dedalus: Yes, I know. Do you sense any trolls anywhere?
Trollbot: Trolls?! Where?!
Dedalus: Why? Do you want to hug them or slay them?
Trollbot screws up its face in confusion.
Trollbot: I don't know. I have all these conflicting feelings. On the one hand, I know I should keep them off the board, on the other hand, I want to see if they have sexy acne.
Dedalus: I need you to concentrate. Our friend has gone missing. We need to know if trolls have taken her anywhere. Do you sense any trolls?
Trollbot: No, but I see that one right behind you!
Mundusmundi and Dedalus both jump in fright, for sure enough, one of the troll henchmen is right there. They question him.
Mundusmundi: Don't do that! And what do you know about Ronia?
Troll: He-he. VampireHunterD has her over at the Bronze board. He's going to take her to his basement to be his queen. But he wants to see all of you first!
Before anyone can catch him, the little gnarled troll runs out of the posting board, laughing an eerie, high-pitched laugh.
Dedalus: Well, that's not funny. Trollbot, why didn't you stop him before he got away?
Trollbot: I don't know! My circuits are all conflicted.
Dedalus looks away, obviously a bit aggravated. He and Mundusmundi decide to go over to the meeting area and let everyone know what has happened. They leave the Trollbot there, and it watches from a distance. It's clearly kind of sad. As if playing on its emotions, another song begins, though no one else hears it.
Trollbot: It's this forum that I hold dear.
I keep pretending but I don't belong here.
So now I leave as the trolls stand and jeer,
But I -
My optics are fuzzy, and I don't see well.
My wires are crossed, I'm just a rusting shell.
I can't keep trolls out, so here they dwell,
But I -
I wish I could sing the right song to make them leave this board
Wish I didn't love them, every one of their greasy little horde.
Wish I could just stay, but this I can't afford,
Cause I'm programmed in the way.
The trolls around me, I don't slay at all.
If I saw any of them, in love I'd fall.
So I just patrol here instead of slaying tall,
But I -
I wish I could hold them close, and let them troll at last.
Wish I could dance with them, but now that night has passed.
Wish I could stay, a trollbot deadly and fast,
But I'm not programmed to slay.
I'm just programmed to be in the way.
From the meeting area, LittleBit, Anthony8, Dedalus, d'Herblay, Aquitaine, Rahael, Mundusmundi, and the newly logged in VampRiley watch the Trollbot walk off into the internet all alone.
Dedalus: Well, now we've lost our Trollbot. Anyone else feel the need to make an exit?
Coming from the chatroom, the illustrious yet beleaguered webmaster Liquidram addresses the question the only way it can be addressed - with more songs.
Liquidram: No more chat or e-mail.
For James this has to be
Some abuse his celebrity.
I guess this is farewell.
Shippers don't you see
They'll be no more chats with me?
You just made me leave -
This announcement is even more surprising when Spotjon suddenly pops up to enjoy a duet with the departing Liquidram.
Spotjon: Believe me I don't want to go.
It'll grieve me cause I love voy so
But we all know -
Spotjon: Wish I could post
Liquidram: Wish I could trust
Spotjon: The right words
Liquidram: That all of you would be just
Spotjon: To help you understand
Liquidram: But leave ivyweb I must
Spotjon: Just pray to the father to take you by the hand
Both: Wish I could stay!
Wish I could stay!
Wish I could stay!
Wish I could stay.
Liquidram and Spotjon also log off to seek their internet fortunes elsewhere.
Anthony8: Our crowd may be shrinking, but I have to say, they harmonized really well.
Rahael: Didn't they though?
VampRiley: I missed some stuff didn't I? Cuz this is making the kind of sense that doesn't. Just out of morbid curiosity, how long has everyone been singing?
d'Herblay: All day, strangely enough.
VampRiley: Well this is certainly an unexpected turn of events.
LittleBit: And on top of that, VampireHunterD has got Ronia. He's behind all the fun.
Dedalus: And the hits just keep on comin'.
When all hope seems lost, Agent156 enters the meeting area. As one might expect, he's wearing a fedora and trenchcoat.
Agent156: Big news, guys!
Dedalus: Let me guess - vents.
Agent156: Yes, vents! Listen to me, I have found all these vents, and they lead straight into the Bronze. We can get in there and save Ronia!
Dedalus: I've heard about all I can handle about vents.
d'Herblay: It is a rather odd obsession.
Agent156: Vents, man, vents!
LittleBit: Sorry to gang up on you, but I agree. This is no time to talk about vents!
Agent156 is shocked and more than a little bit hurt that no one will listen to him.
Agent156: I'm telling you, I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to surf over there -
LittleBit: Let the vents go!
Agent156: Bite me, LB! I've had enough of this. I'm going to get her myself.
VampRiley: I'll bite you.
LittleBit: Here, if you're going to go, at least take this flashlight.
Agent156: No thanks! I'm outta here.
Agent156 stomps out and everyone watches him go.
VampRiley: That's certainly one angry little poster.
Rahael: Guys, we still haven't figured out what we're going to do.
Dedalus: If Agent is going to be like that, let him handle it!
The Existential Scoobies stay on the Posting Board, all their fates uncertain.
EXT: The Vents
Now Agent156 is all alone. A man alone on the internet. He faces a large vent, and obviously he is having second thoughts. Then he hears the music.
Agent156: I touch the vent and it frightens me.
I stare into it and it stares back.
Why do I care?
Why does it open to me like a dare?
Gee, it certainly looks black!
Now through the vents, she calls to me
To make my way across the dust.
It's worth this strife
If I can save her life.
I guess it's Ronia or bust!
At this point, Agent156 grits his teeth and crawls into the vents, visions of Ronia taunting him on.
Agent156: So I will crawl through the vents!
What other lesson can I learn?
I will crawl through the vents
Until they -
EXT. Cyberspace near the Vents
LittleBit: The flashlight I carry is blinding me.
Agent's giggling I've no doubt.
With a little luck
Maybe he'll get really stuck -
I better help him out!
INT. The Bronze Board
VampireHunterD: Cause he is drawn to the vents!
Some posters never learn!
Both: And he will crawl through the vents
And let them -
EXT. The Posting Board
d'Herblay: Should I call Darby and Estrangere?
Am I leaving Ron in danger?
Are the posters too far gone to care?
Rahael: What if Agent can't free her?
VampRiley: Rah is right, we need to see her.
Or we could just look at the board and stare.
Everyone gets up and marches triumphantly out into cyberspace.
All: We'll see this through,
It's what Buffy philosophers do!
So we will crawl through the vents.
INT. The Vents
This is a strange montage sequence of people crawling through vents.
Agent156: So again and again, the vents twist on me.
I'm glad the Scoobs don't see all this dust.
Aquitaine: What can't we see?
Agent156: But while I cough
And all among them scoff
Doing this I must.
LittleBit: He came from Ohio much higher.
VampRiley: First I'll bite her, then I'll save her.
Rahael: Every post is turning out so dark.
VampRiley: First I'll save her, then I'll thrill her.
Dedalus: I think this chat's mostly filler.
d'Herblay: It's what the posts have inside their spark.
Agent156: These endless twists
Are really just the pits.
All: And we are caught in the vents!
The point of no return!
So we will crawl through the vents
And let them turn!
Let them turn!
Let them turn!
Just let them turn!
EXT. The Bronze Board
As it happens, a poster named Rufus took the subway and beat everyone there. She kicks down the door with an Existential Scooby adrenaline kick.
VampireHunterD: Showtime.
[> [>
Awww Shucks. It was GREAT. But.. -- ZachsMind, 20:09:30 10/24/02 Thu
Do I show up a year later singing about being someone's Missus? =(
[> [>
I need a new agent, I've been typecast and will end up next to Jackie Chan in his next movie... -- Rufus, 20:11:56 10/24/02 Thu
and damn......I wanted to be a Broadway Musical Star....sigh..I'm so misunderstood....;)
[> [> [>
Patience, Rufus... still more to come :-) -- LittleBit, 20:16:02 10/24/02 Thu
[> [>
that's my cameo? -- Solitude1056, 20:33:54 10/24/02 Thu
*sigh*
The Numerical Evils just don't seem to get any respect these days, what with all these upstarts...
heh.
[> [> [>
Try being a member of the ignored Canadian Demon Cat Worshippers Chorus.....<g>....;) -- Rufus, 20:42:16 10/24/02 Thu
[> [> [>
Hey, I'm not in it at all .... -- Wolfhowl3, 20:42:56 10/24/02 Thu
I guess I just have to post more often.
This is great work, thank you.
Wolfie
[> [> [> [>
Aww Wolfie, ....I have room for more CDCW's won't even hold your Wolfieness against you..;) -- Rufus, 20:46:59 10/24/02 Thu
Who needs a musical when you could be one of US!!!!!
[> [> [>
least you got a cameo -- Vickie, 21:08:04 10/24/02 Thu
Serious pouting going on over here.
[> [> [> [>
I'm only briefly mentionned -- Etrangere, 06:52:54 10/25/02 Fri
But Ded hasn't even got my name right ! I'm not spanish ! It's Etrangere, no 'S' !
[> [> [> [>
Right there with you, sister. -- Arethusa, 07:42:17 10/25/02 Fri
It's like being back in high school and not getting picked for the school play, lol at myself.
[> [> [> [> [>
Yep. Picked last for the team again! ;-) -- Vickie, 11:38:06 10/25/02 Fri
[> [> [>
I am not worthy.... -- Liq, 02:30:05 10/25/02 Fri
[> [> [> [>
No, I think this is Ded's retaliation for us banning Ewoks in Dark Alchemy... -- Solitude1056, 09:20:59 10/25/02 Fri
Bwahahaha.
I don't know if "worthy" is quite the word we're looking for.
[>
ROFLOL - Awesome piece of work. -- Cheryl, 20:33:42 10/24/02 Thu
I feel a cyber-emmy nomination coming on!
[>
Who put the spy camera in my bedroom?! -- Masq, 22:07:49 10/24/02 Thu
[>
ROFL !!!!! -- Ete, 06:34:44 10/25/02 Fri
"Dochawk: It could be shippers! Some Spuffy shippers!
Which is ridiculous cause we all know Buffy
Is but a minor footnote in Spike's hero journey
And sexy cheekbones and soul back and I'll be
Over here. "
Wow, Ded, this is priceless ! You won at least three more monthes of "falling to my knees and starts worshiping Ded" :)
Heroic Standards -- Rufus, 19:13:05 10/24/02 Thu
I was sitting in the waiting room, waiting of course when I happened to notice a quote in this months Oprah magazine...
We lament the lack of heroes today, but we expect a kind of perfection that exists only among the gods. The heroes of mythology are not perfect people but people with very obvious strengths and very obvious weaknesses. So if we can look past our original assumption - that heroes must be flawless - then all of a sudden the world is populated with more forms of heroism than we could ever expect. Ken Burns, Documentary Fimmaker
I've noticed a definate trend towards favoring the charcter of choice over the hero of the show in BTVS. Every move Buffy makes is scanned for imperfections, heartlessness seen in an eyeroll, while heroic acts are dismissed. Then there is Spike, who can seem to do no wrong, and Buffy is the worst kind of heartless bitch for not welcoming him into her arms because he got a soul. The hero becomes a villian of sorts and a villian of sorts becomes a hero. While I like Spike and I've posted enough about the guy, I see him as very flawed in a way that dwarfs any eyeroll Buffy could ever make. But I guess it's all part of the Heroic Standards we come to expect. Buffy as a hero, can't do anything right because she is held to an impossible standard, while characters like Spike and even Anya are lamented over while their evil acts are forgotten.
I'm glad I found that one quote out of this magazine because I could see just some of why I was becoming so impatient with some attitudes out there. I don't expect Buffy to be perfect because she is a twenty-one year old girl. I only wish that just a fraction of the energy that goes into finding the smallest spark of humanity in the demons could be sought for in our hero. If I could see that I'd feel less likely to start reminding people that both demons were in fact killers of the worst kind, and could go back to finding the middle ground between the demon and the human....and maybe Buffy and the Scoobies would be cut a bit of a break.
[>
Re: Heroic Standards -- ZachsMind, 20:00:24 10/24/02 Thu
This carries over into other avenues of public scrutiny. Richard Nixon opened up China to America and the world in a way no one else before him had achieved. However, the Watergate Fiasco turned saint Dick into a.. well.. into a dick. *shrug* Is Nixon a hero or a villian? Both? How can that be?
I think Whedon's trying to illustrate that point every week in Buffy AND Angel and perhaps even in Firefly. Sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes bad people do good things. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and sometimes bad people get away with doing bad things and achieve good rewards for their bad behavior. It's the moral ambiguity that Masq has splendidly detailed and pointed out throughout her analyses in ATPoBtVS.
The world's not black & white. It's not even ranges of grey. It's a spectrum with more colors and shades and tints than is easily categorized and classified. Assuming all demons are evil is just as racist and prejudiced as assuming all *insert random color, creed or gender here* are evil or good.
And in fact, once you define someone as good or evil, that definition can change. So does that mean there's NO absolutes?
[>
Oh Bugger..... I missed part of the Quote -- Rufus, 01:53:25 10/25/02 Fri
We lament the lack of heroes today, but we expect a kind of perfection that exists only among the gods. The heroes of mythology are not perfect people but people with very obvious strengths and very obvious weaknesses. What we see as heroism is a negotiation between strengths and weaknesses. So if we can look past our original assumption - that heroes must be flawless - then all of a sudden the world is populated with more forms of heroism than we could ever expect.
Now you know what I was in the doctors office for....blindness.
But getting back again to Buffy.....she does just that every week negotiates between her strengths and weaknesses, and sometimes isn't very sympathetic, same goes with all the characters we see as heroes. They aren't gods...they are people first, heroes second. Also they are young. So how the hell will they ever learn if life isn't a trial of a sort to get through the best they can? No character is perfect or the show will be dull. We may lament when we think of one showing of weakness to be the sum total of that person, but if we put everything together I think it evens out.
[> [>
Re: Oh Bugger..... I missed part of the Quote -- yabyumpan, 02:25:00 10/25/02 Fri
Just got to add that it's very true for Angel as well. He seems to be judged by an impossible standard (esp as he's a demon, so all the time having to do battle with his innate nature), where as other character's questionable actions are sometimes not even, well, questioned.
[> [> [>
Re: Oh Bugger..... I missed part of the Quote -- Rufus, 04:04:01 10/25/02 Fri
I agree. We all see each character as we want to, our preferences clouding what we see. Angel is in a bit of a different situation than the Scoobies in that he has a past to atone for, but he is now more than ever struggling with what he has been be it mortal or demon. To be fair to all the characters we have to be able to draw back and look at what they are doing, even if we'd rather not.
[> [>
Rufus, you're *my* hero! -- MaeveRigan, 07:20:30 10/25/02 Fri
Rufus, what a great quotation! I'm putting it on my wall, right under my Buffy poster...oh wait, I don't have a Buffy poster, but I'm running right out to get one, so I can put it over the quote...
[> [>
Even the gods are usually flawed actually ... -- Dedalus, 14:46:19 10/25/02 Fri
[> [> [>
Re: Even the gods are usually flawed actually ... -- Rufus, 15:34:28 10/25/02 Fri
I think what KB means is our perception of Gods, not what actually pans out on the pages of Myths. There is a thought out there that the Gods were perfect mistaking their apparent powers for a quality that none of them had.
[>
Thank you for the quote -- verdantheart, 07:02:54 10/25/02 Fri
It brings up why the hero is generally *not* my favorite character in a story. Heroes in American fiction are generally bland and colorless. In the limited Superman fiction I've viewed, for example, he's drawn as so perfect that the story is incredibly boring. I agree with you. I do not expect Buffy to be perfect, especially when confronted with a situation (ensouled vampire, for God's sake!) that brings up excruciating events of the past with a vengeance. In fact, it's good to have a hero who isn't always perfect. I just hope that the writers give the typical audience member a better insight into what's going on with Buffy because of their impatience -- even I can't be sure my interpretation is correct because the text is so sparse.
What I see is that it's easier for the audience to feel sympathetic toward Spike because his suffering is so obvious and we know it so well. Meanwhile, Buffy's suffering is cryptic; we really haven't been shown what she's been going through. I think that, should it come out, the audience would feel a great deal more sympathy for Buffy.
[>
Re: Heroic Standards -- shadowkat, 08:25:20 10/25/02 Fri
"I've noticed a definate trend towards favoring the charcter of choice over the hero of the show in BTVS. Every move Buffy makes is scanned for imperfections, heartlessness seen in an eyeroll, while heroic acts are dismissed. Then there is Spike, who can seem to do no wrong, and Buffy is the worst kind of heartless bitch for not welcoming him into her arms because he got a soul. The hero becomes a villian of sorts and a villian of sorts becomes a hero. While I like Spike and I've posted enough about the guy, I see him as very flawed in a way that dwarfs any eyeroll Buffy could ever make. But I guess it's all part of the Heroic Standards we come to expect. Buffy as a hero, can't do anything right because she is held to an impossible standard, while characters like Spike and even Anya are lamented over while their evil acts are forgotten. "
I'm not sure if that's really true, although it may seem to be from some of the posts I've read. I admit, I find myself rolling my eyes over what I call Spiketwit posts (Spike is the misunderstood anti-hero...and Buffy is a cruel heartless bitch...makes me hate myself for ever being a lover of Spuffy or Spike.) I also roll my eyes over the Buffy is the unadulterated hero posts. How dare you criticize her! And we say we don't watch this show emotionally? Bah. If we didn't we wouldn't be spending time posting to posting boards. LOL!
This is an interesting show - because it has so many pov's. While watching it you can literally find yourself within any of them. Which character's pov you place yourself in? Has a lot to do with who you are. Some people like Buffy's pov and spend all their time there regardless. Some like Spike's (hard place to spend all your time, considering he's barely shown, but whatever), some Willow's...etc.
I find I see the show better and enjoy it more when I'm able to pull out of the pov of a particular character and not watch emotionally - which usually doesn't happen for me until a second or third viewing. Which is why knee-jerk posts on my part are a very bad idea.
Case in point? Until I rewatched Selfless - I thought Buffy was being shown as heartless and the cold judge of law. I rewatched it last night and went...dang! I was looking at Buffy through Xander's eyes, how'd that happen? I never watch through Xander. She's not heartless or cold at all.
Very weird experience. And the only show on television that this happens to me with. Says something about the talent of these writers, doesn't it?
Okay I have a point here hidden somewheres beneath all this rambling...what was it? Ah...Buffy is the tragic hero, flawed, struggling to do the right thing, often doing the wrong thing, and walking the tight rope between good and evil. Makes her far more interesting and realistic.
Our problem with heros - is we are a bit like Xander Harris - we want them to sit on pedestals and do no wrong. We want them to jump in and save the day. And if the bad guy is our loved one? We want the hero to save them and push them on the path to good. Not kill them. And the hero mustn't sleep with a demon or a bad guy or a villain. That's okay for the villain, but not the hero. We expect a bit much of heros. Which is why we don't have them and maybe why we don't see ourselves as heroes in our own lives.
Xander doesn't see himself as a hero yet he is. Everyday he goes to work and holds his crew together. Everyday he helps Buffy kill a demon. He was a hero long before he stopped Willow from destroying the world. But Xander can't see it.
Willow is also a hero...but she doesn't see it.
Buffy is not the only hero on the show as was shown to great effect in PRimeval. They all have been at different points. But because our standards are soo incredibly high, we can't see it and they can't see it.
I remember reading an Whedon interview once where he stated - I like it when the noble captain/hero guy shows cowardice and the ugly mercernary guy shows noblity. Because both are heros and both are fall down.
Not sure that made sense...SK
PS: you can tell I have zip to do at work this morning can't you?
Board Statistics and Superlative Awards (Unbelievably Anal) -- Sophie with Sophomorica's help as slave labor, 20:35:36 10/24/02 Thu
Outline
Explanation of data
Aggregated Data with more long-winded explanation
Awards
The data is all posts from the main page and the five archive pages copied at approximately 17:20pm board time. There were 1,326 posts in 79 threads, which averages to 16.78 posts per thread. The time period of the posts is from the above stated time on Thursday, October 24 back to Wednesday, October 16. Now, since the archiver doesn't archive by date, it is possible that all counts for a given day are incomplete. The days Wednesday, October 16, Thursday, October 17, and Friday, October 18 probably are undercounted by posts and threads, as well as today, Thursday, October 24. The average number of threads per day for all days is 9.11, the average number of threads per day for one week time is 10.47, and the average posts per day for the days thought to be complete (Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, and Wed) is 10.6.
Number of Posts by Day of Week
Saturday = 72
Sunday = 73
Monday = 241
Tuesday = 234
Wednesday = 290
Thursday = 172 (incomplete)
The most posts per day was 290 on Wednesday, October 23. The second most posts per day was on Monday with 241 posts. I find this most interesting as it is the day before a Tuesday with a new episode promised. Tuesday, the day the new episode aired, albeit late in the day, had 237 posts. Now, according to the FAQ, the board allows a maximum of one post per minute, thus a total maximum number of posts per day of 1,440. This means that you guys are nowhere near maximizing the boards potential.
The fewest posts per day was 39 on Wednesday, October 16, but that that days post count is likely undercounted. The fewest posts per day of the days likely to be correctly counted is Saturday, October 19, with 72 posts. IIRC, the board was down most of Saturday, October 19. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. So the post count for Saturday is likely inaccurate. Sunday was just a hair busier with 73 posts.
I am assuming from the average length of words on this board being rather lengthy and the number of times that I have to get out my dictionary just to read posts, that many of us here have college degrees and graduate degrees. Please correct me if I am wrong. From that assumption, I will further assume that most of the posters work weekdays, Monday through Friday, 9-5. Now, notice that Saturday and Sunday were slow days and Monday through Thursday were busy days. What does this tell us? That posters prefer to spend their days off from work doing constructive things and sneak in posting during their workday. Yes, some weekday posts are at night. I did not analyze the times that posts were posted. Sorry.
Still with me? Good.
Number of Threads posted by Day of Week (post count includes the original post for the thread, so subtract one if your more anal than moi)
Saturday = 3
Sunday = 8
Monday = 6
Tuesday = 17
Wednesday = 19
Thursday = 17 (incomplete)
I'm speechless.
Average Number of Posts per Thread by Day of Week
Saturday = 24
Sunday = 9.13
Monday = 40.17
Tuesday = 13.76
Wednesday = 15.26
Thursday = 10.12
The most posts for a given thread was 92. That being the thread titled, "Heart, Spirit, Mind and Hands" by shadowkat posted on Wednesday. There were many threads that had no responses. I am sure many wonderful threads had fewer posts than they deserved because they were much too quickly archived by our archiver. You will notice that all days had averages below our simple average stated above except Monday. Obviously, Monday's higher than normal ratio skewed the statistics. The above average include all days that data was collected for, whereas this section just covers the most-likely-to-be-complete days. Well, sort of. Whatever. If you don't like my methods, do your own work.
There are 108 posters listed in Masq's "Meet the Posters" pages. And the Roll Call the other day turned up 44 posters admitting to having alter-ego's of some sort or another. Yes, I remembered not to count Pamela who does not have an alter self, but posted anyway, and I subtracted out those of you who posted despite being already in the FAQ. So that gives a board total of 152 posters. I dare say from looking at the data, that we have more posters than that. I won't comment on posters who didn't submit "Meet the Posters" bio's as this was mentioned on the board recently.
I would tell you how many unique poster names their were, but my attention span is shorter than the time it would take to figure that out since I do not have a nifty program to tell me how many times each name is posted. Thpthth. Of the 297 posts that I did count the names of posters recurring, it looks like HonorH posted the most posts. That is unofficial of course, since there remain 1,029 more posts to be considered.
Sang started the most threads, 4. With Masq coming in second with 3.
I was going to give awards, but looking around, I realize that I have nothing to give out as awards. So this section will be omitted.
Sophie
[>
Addendum #1 -- Sophie, 20:39:22 10/24/02 Thu
I forgot to add the 11 alter-selves in the FAQ, so there are 163 posters.
S
[> [>
Fascinating. -- HonorH, 21:48:31 10/24/02 Thu
Tell me, how *do* you get your Evil Alter-Ego to be your slave labor? Honorificus would sooner go to a Tom Jones concert than do anything I ask.
[> [> [>
Re: Fascinating. -- Sophie, 05:28:44 10/25/02 Fri
LOL! I'll never tell!
Sophie
[> [> [>
Obviously you've never been to a Tom Jones concert -- ponygirl longing for the green green grass of home, 12:49:39 10/25/02 Fri
[> [> [> [>
Nope. -- Sophie, 12:56:19 10/25/02 Fri
[>
Hmm -- Masq, 06:33:56 10/25/02 Fri
I erased several giant threads from archive 5 on Thursday morning, approx 6:30 am board time because they were already archived last weekend and I wanted to make more room for the influx of this week's thread. The board was therefore smaller than usual.
[> [>
Re: Hmm -- Sophie, 07:49:08 10/25/02 Fri
Doing this only once really begats skewed stats anyway.
I have wondered how much control you have with the archiving...
Sophie
[> [> [>
Re: Hmm -- Masq, 13:02:50 10/25/02 Fri
I don't control when posts are moved to the archives, although I can bring them back to the main page if they are.
I can erase or disappear any post or any thread at any time (Mwah hah hah!), as long as I can get on the 'net.
I can move threads to the archives if I chose to, but have only done that for occassional humungous cancerous "threads that won't die".
I could make this whole board password-only if I wanted. That wouldn't be very democratic, though.
I can ban posters who have a consistent ISP address, and have done that once or twice, mostly to people trying to OT-advertise on the board.
In short, I am very powerful and very benevolent. I even have a fellow board-God now, d'Herblay, who can do everything I can do. *shudders*
[>
Re: Board Statistics and Superlative Awards (Unbelievably Anal) -- Alvin, 20:41:08 10/25/02 Fri
The interesting question is "How many of the posts were about Spike?". :)
Current board
| More October 2002