November 2003 posts
The fan fic effect? --
phoenix, 05:59:25 11/11/03 Tue
Or, how I learned to stop worrying and love season seven.
I just finished a marathon re-viewing of Buffy season seven this
weekend,(my head hurts)and I noticed that something strange has
happened in the period between the first time I watched it and
now...this time I really enjoyed it. It has transformed for me
from a frustrating missed opportunity, into a rich and fairly
fulfilling experience inspite of all its' faults and plot holes.
I was trying to figure out what could have changed my views, apart
from temporary insanity, and the only thing I could come up with
was reading fan fic. After finding the season so disappointing
I had gone off to attempt to drown my sorrows in other peoples
stories. After reading Leather, by the wonderful HonorH, in which
Robin Wood remembers his mother, and that coat, I found myself
caring about the character in a way I hadn't before. Thousand
Yard Stare, on the Better Buffy Fiction site made the potentials
seem far more real and far less anoying. The "My Character"
posts on this very board even made me start *cough*liking Kennedy*cough*.
When I watched her this time I found her almost sympathetic, and
felt slightly guilty for hating her with such a passion initially,
and sorry we probably won't be seeing her again. My frustration
over the handling, or mis-handling, of the Willow arc was much
lesseded by reading a story by Tulipp called Terra Firma. Highly
recomended, she/he made me cry, damn it. It dealt wonderfully
with Willow's grief, guilt, fear and anger management issues,
as well as finally giving us a good use for Dawn and her keyness,
and the best Tara returns story I've read. This is someone who
writes like she has been to the dark place and lived to tell the
tale. She even quoted Rilke, which is always a good thing.
Those are just a few examples, though I have to say my conversion
is not complete yet, I still find Andrew deeply anoying. As for
General von Buffy, it was actually Orleans, a story by Hth,(also
to be found in the BBF archive) set in the Wishverse and following
the trials of Buffy the nihilistic vampire slayer just before
she arrives in Sunnydale, which helped me regain my empathy for
the character. The writer has real insight into the person Buffy
could easilly become without her friends, and does a great job
of filling out the character we glimpsed briefly in The Wish.
This story is still haunting me weeks later, go, read. It even
begins with a Joan of Arc quote, " take me to Orleans,and
I will show you the signs I was sent to make". Joan the vampire
slayer, anyone?
Sorry for rambling massively longer than I intended. The question
I actually set out to ask was, has anyone else noticed this effect?
Or does anyone have any alternative explainations?
phoenix.
Replies:
[> Amen! -- Ladyhelix,
11:37:55 11/11/03 Tue
Fan Fic indeed enriches and sustains us; beyond Buffy or between
Angle episodes. It also allows us to explore situations and interactions
from seasons past (or alternate universes) that we might never
otherwise consider. Joss's characters are wonderful - and the
stories that can still be told are limitless.
I just finished reading "DONE to DEATH" (by Ann Hedonia),
which was a wonderful Spike/Tara character study as well as a
hopeful tale about dealing with despair.
"JOURNEYS & AWAKENINGS" (by Mary) is an incredible FIC.
It's an alternate season 6 that allows us to love & respect both
Spike & Buffy. Proceed with caution however, because once it gets
around to it - it MORE than earns it's NC-17 rating (it's a scorcher).
"19 HOURS" is a sweet "after Chosen" Buffy/Spike
piece, though I can't recall who wrote it - does anyone out there
remember?
http://s8219.net/BetterBuffyFic/index.html does have a very good
collection of fiction, but there are zillions of fics on the WEB
that run the gamut; silly, absurd, sweet, profound, angsty, dark,
and spicy.
ENJOY!
[> [> Calling all readers and writers of fan fic...
-- phoenix, 16:16:48 11/11/03 Tue
What I was essentially wondering is how much do you find that
reading, or writing, fan fic affects the way you then view the
show? Is the seeming explosion of fiction posted on line seriously
changing the way that we relate to the TV shows we watch by making
viewing a more active and interactive experince? If so what does
that say about our perceptions of the world around us. I read
some fic and found myself enjoying season seven, and relating
to characters in a way I hadn't before, the text hadn't changed
at all, but I had.
I am becoming increasingly fascinated by the fact that thousands
of people are not only absorbing the story as is, but contributing
to it and joining in the creation of it. What do you feel provokes
people to do that, rather than writing an original story, for
instance? Some results are better than others admittedly, for
a hillarious tale of what happens to bad writers check out The
Official Buffy and Angel Fan Fiction University at HonnorH's site,
and its' equally funny spin-off in which the courageous agents
of the PPC have to battle and destroy Mary Sues in some truely
abominable fic. The frightening thing is they are using stories
people have really posted! In fact there you have it, stories
are even being written about stories being written.
Has anyone actually done a study of this topic, and if so where
can I find it?
Thanks for reading, and hopefully replying.
phoenix.
[> [> [> I've just created an HonorH mini-troll !
-- phoenix, 16:22:39 11/11/03 Tue
[> [> [> HonorH's site -- angel's nibblet, 22:26:04
11/11/03 Tue
Could anyone please give me a link to this fantabulous sounding
site, for I google in vain :-S
[> [> [> [> Here 'tis: -- HonorH, 21:22:07
11/11/03 Tue
Thanks for the endorsement, phoenix. My fanfic, including OBAFU,
can be found here:
HonorH's
fanfic at FFN
I do hope you enjoy!
[> [> [> [> [> Excellent! I plan to start writing
terrible fic immediately just so I can go to this University ;-)!
-- angel's nibblet, 21:47:09 11/11/03 Tue
[> [> [> [> [> [> Good idea....I'll see you
there (-: -- phoenix, 01:17:10 11/12/03 Wed
[> [> [> [> [> Big fan of HonorH's fic here...
-- jane, 22:03:38 11/11/03 Tue
I highly recommend a visit to her site. I loved her little vignettes
of Buffy/Endless crossovers. Lots of other great stuff to read
there too. The OBAFU has seriously affected the way I read fanfic
as well as mainstream stuff. Now I find I see Mary Sues all over
the place! Thanks HonorH.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Are you sure it's not because
there ARE Mary-Sues all over the place;-) -- angel's nibblet,
22:57:52 11/11/03 Tue
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Lord, yes - I can
see, I can see! -- jane, 23:01:59 11/11/03 Tue
[> [> [> [> [> Lol!!! Nice job, very nice, three
thumbs up!!!! -- angel's nibblet, 23:33:42 11/11/03 Tue
Buffy slowly came into her field of vision, walking with some
difficulty. And no wonder. Spykzgyrl was hanging off the Slayer's
leg, begging, "Please tell me you really do love Spike! Please!
Validate my existence! Plee-he-he-he-heaze!"
hahahahahaha *rolling round on floor* classic.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Back to the beginning.
-- phoenix, 01:43:31 11/12/03 Wed
I'm always more than happy to endorse HonorH's fic, while I'm
at it can I endorse Hth's fic too? She writes in many fandoms,
but is one of the best Buffy and AtS writers I've read. You can
find her at http://gatefiction.com/hth/crucify.htm . Be warned
she writes a lot of slash, but in excellent taste and with great
character development. She even convinced me that Giles/Oz was
a good idea! Favourite less slashy stories of hers' include Orleans,
previously mentioned, in which Wishverse Buffy briefly meets a
version of Faith who was never called. Twenty-eight Days, an excellent
study of the W/T relationship, and Witness, a Faith twenty years
later story.
Does anyone want to discuss my original question? How does reading
and/or writing fan fic affect the way you experience watching
Buffy or AtS ? It's all about perception. Let me know, validate
my existance, pu..pu...please!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Used to read
-- MsGiles, 07:08:53 11/13/03 Thu
a lot of Trekfic, and, since so much of it was slash, it did change
my viewing of the series! Suddenly it was all several grades steamier
(ah, the sexiness of nylon!). However, I think the fic was picking
up on a vibe that was there (with certain writers, certain episodes)
rather than completely inventing something.
Having said that, I saw the original series when adolescent, and
like Xander, could have found linoleum sexy (the all-transforming
spectacles of lust are not exclusive to male adolescence). The
close quarters of the Enterprise, all warm-looking, safe and enclosed,
with lightly-dressed young people wandering about at all hours
of the day and night was obvious linoleum. The fanfic picked up
these feelings and wove them into something, sometimes more interesting
than the original. I learnt a lot about relationships from this
stuff. Perhaps more about libido. I remember one particularly
good one where Dr McCoy and Spock went through pon farr together
..
My interest in slash has faded, and I haven't read much Buffyfic,
though I loved HonorH's University. Reading it made me want to
try to write some, and in the long dry spell between S6 and S7,
I've found myself drafting plots. If nothing else, this has told
me something about how difficult it is to be a) original and b)
in keeping with style, character etc. without writing endless
pastiche.
While nothing clear has emerged from this, it has changed my appreciation
of S7. Now the gap between real episodes and fanfic seems somehow
blurred. The actual episodes seem more like fanfic. I can feel
the writers behind them, making choices, following and deviating
from patterns, in a way I didn't, before. I can see it in S6 as
well.
The choice to write or to read fanfic means I am not accepting
the Buffy universe as sealed, finished, but as one among many
parallel universes. I don't think that implies any disrespect
for the writers: it can increase it. It's not rejecting the aired
work, it's taking the work they've done as building blocks, and
using the blocks to assemble different narrative buildings. games
do that, as well. A game sets up building blocks of action and
choice from which narratives are assembled. A good game provides
building blocks that will result in interesting narratives, perhaps?
Interesting subject
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Canon and Patterns
-- dmw, 18:25:59 11/13/03 Thu
The actual episodes seem more like fanfic. I can feel the
writers behind them, making choices, following and deviating from
patterns, in a way I didn't, before.
I've had the same experience after starting to write fan fiction.
Your mention of patterns reminds me of architect Christopher Alexander's
use of patterns, which I keep thinking has to be applicable to
storytelling too.
The choice to write or to read fanfic means I am not accepting
the Buffy universe as sealed, finished, but as one among many
parallel universes. I don't think that implies any disrespect
for the writers: it can increase it. It's not rejecting the aired
work, it's taking the work they've done as building blocks, and
using the blocks to assemble different narrative buildings.
Well said. Ordinarily, only a few people hired by the corporation
who owns the copyrights of the work get to play with it in that
way, but fan fiction lets all of us have the same pleasure. The
thought of many parallel Buffyverses is interesting, especially
when we examine canons which have had a greater length of time
to evolve. Remaining in the superhero/fantasy genre, we could
ask: who is the real Superman? Is it the hero of the 70's movies,
the teenager from Smallville, the reporter/hero from Lois and
Clark, or the original comic character who couldn't fly? Between
tthe facts that the story's continued for so long and that almost
no one has read it from the beginning, we all have different answers
to that question.
I don't know if Buffy will have the same sustaining power, but
if she does, who will she be to the viewers of 60 years from today?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Canon
and Patterns -- phoenix, 05:11:18 11/14/03 Fri
One of the things which struck me when I first began reading fan
fic, about eight months ago, was that it felt liberating for people
to be able to join in creating stories around this central story
on such a grand scale, and then to be able to send them off into
the public arena to do their thing. No more worrying about the
pesky publishers, now you have the chance to get your story out
there and being read so long as you have a computer and internet
access. Okay, I really wish some of those writers had kept their
diabolically bad stories to themselves, but when you find that
great story that leaves you in tears, or laughing hysterically,
or both, or simply wondering about a concept that hadn't occured
to you before, it seems worth wading through some dross. Buffy
and AtS seem to have captured the imaginations of some writers
of real talent, and I wish the powers that be had managed to find
such writers to deal with the spin-off novels. I read a couple
out of curiosity,and a desire for my Buffy fix, but found them
dissapointing.
I too am wondering how the canon might evolve over time, this
feels like a story that is so full of possibilities and has so
much momentum behind it now that it could run and run. Speaking
personally I have never found myself so drawn in by a TV show,
or spending such a ridiculous amount of time thinking about it.
When I tuned in for the first episode seven years ago it was the
last thing I was expecting, I'd seen the movie after all! Will
Buffy still be around in some incarnation in sixty years time?
From my current perspective it seems quite likely. I'm not a follower
of the Superman story, but the only way I could imagine all the
different stories that have now sprung up around it co-existing
is to think of them as happening in slightly parallel universes,
and I imagine the same will apply to the Buffyverse. Infact I
realise that is how I already think of fan fic.
It does seem to be the mythic stories that last. For instance,
I can't really see people sitting around the fire in sixty years
telling tales of ER or NYPD Blue, yet after one and a half thousand
years(aproximately)people are still re-telling the myth of King
Arthur for their own times, from Celtic myth to Malory to Monty
Python. At the deepest levels humans work with symbolic images,
the images came first not the words, so perhaps that is why the
stories most full of symbolism, most open to metaphorical interpretation
are the ones which last,they connect with a part of us we can
never quite express in language however hard we try. Or perhaps
it's just that we all like good fight scenes and some doomed romance.
Many more thoughts on this, but I'm sure it has probably been
well covered on this board before. If so does anyone know where
I could find some posts about this subject in the archives?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Does
Buffy have Mythic Resonance? -- dmw, 12:46:48 11/16/03
Sun
It does seem to be the mythic stories that last. For instance,
I can't really see people sitting around the fire in sixty years
telling tales of ER or NYPD Blue, yet after one and a half thousand
years(aproximately)people are still re-telling the myth of King
Arthur for their own times, from Celtic myth to Malory to Monty
Python. At the deepest levels humans work with symbolic images,
the images came first not the words, so perhaps that is why the
stories most full of symbolism, most open to metaphorical interpretation
are the ones which last,they connect with a part of us we can
never quite express in language however hard we try.
I think you're right. Most stories are too closely bound up in
the minor details of their time and culture to have the mythic
resonance that makes a story like that of Arthur last for centuries.
Interestingly, while images came first (for a modern autistic
engineer's perspective of a life in images, read Temple Grandin's
wonderful Thinking in Pictures), it seems that stories
told in words have a greater endurance than stories told in images.
Perhaps that's a distorted viewpoint from living in a culture
that values words over images, and I might think differently if
I lived in Japan, for instance.
However, I do think format is one of the barriers that BtVS would
have to overcome to become a mythic, enduring story. Another barrier
is our continually extended copyright, avoided somewhat through
fan fiction, but still possibly enough to prevent a modern story
from attaining the mythic status of one of Shakespeare-s plays.
Most importantly though, of course, is the degree to which the
story resonates with our inner symbols.
The chosen hero is a classic story, which for example, Superman
and most comic/movie heroes follow. Where Buffy is different I
think is in her friends, her round table of Scoobies if you will.
It's not just that she has friends, but who they are and how they
fit together, as illustrated by the joining spell in Primeval/Restless.
That in combination with the fairly thin legend of the vampire
slayer is the essence of what creates Buffy's mythic resonance
for me.
However, I'm not so sure that it works that well for people in
general. Buffy never had a large viewership and what viewership
it had decreased almost continually after its high point in early
season 6. So I'm not sure if Buffy has a deep enough mythic resonance
for most people to survive as Arthur has. What do you think?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: Does Buffy have Mythic Resonance? -- phoenix, 04:24:14
11/17/03 Mon
I too doubt that Buffy will have the longevity of a myth like
that of Arthur,a story which I grew up with and is particulary
close to my heart, but then it's hard to gage which stories will
sick around. It certainly has plenty of mythic resonance for me,
I remember sometime during its run actually getting up and doing
my happy dance round the room because my TV was giving me something
I had only ever really got from reading myths before. The show
does seem to follow the classic hero journey pattern, whether
by accident or Joss Whedon's intention I don't know, but, as you
have said, what tends to set it apart from most of those other
stories is the round table of Scoobies and their connections.
Also, having a female hero for once meant a great deal to me and
gave the story ressonances I cannot imagine it having had with
a male protagonist. In fact I even tried mentally substituting
a teenage boy for Buffy to see how it would play, it's an interesting
experiment if you haven't tried it.
Interesting what you said about language, I'll have to give that
some more thought as it was the joyful and inventive use of language
which really drew me into the show in the first place. Though
I still think that at the root it is the symbolic images behind
the language which truely sustain a story.
I had also been thinking that format and copyright could be barriers
to Buffy being taken up by people in the way that earlier mythic
stories were, but that is why I'm so intrigued by all the discussion
groups and fan fic sites which have apeared online, it strikes
me that using the internet might be a way around those problems,
at least in part. It has made me start really thinking about how
a myth begins and how it is perpetuated. Perhaps only small elements
of the original story are taken up and survive through various
incarnations. If nothing else I hope Buffy will have opened the
floodgates for hero stories with intelligent, multi layered, believable
women at the center of them, we need more!
As far as whether the story works for people in general - I seem
to remember reading that when the original Star Trek first aired
it didn't do that well. It was only after the series ended and
it went into syndication that it developed a significantly large
cult following. I have a feeling that Buffy might work the same
way. It is by nature a cult show, but that may actually stand
in its favour, when it comes to staying power it seems it's quite
often the cult shows which endure, while those which were more
imediately popular at the time lie forgotten. Judging by myself,
my friends and the internet, Buffy fans are a loyal, and slightly
obsessive bunch, so a small but passionate following might tend
to continue the story, when tales with a bigger audience but less
intellectual and emotional staying power might fall by the wayside.
Accademics and critics also seem to have taken up the story with
unexpected enthusiasm, which may also increase its live expectancy.
Thoughts?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
[> The Endurance of Fan Fiction -- dmw, 06:00:16
11/17/03 Mon
Perhaps only small elements of the original story are taken
up and survive through various incarnations.
This is a good point. If you read the Irish legends of Fionn and
his band of warriors, you can vaguely see the outlines of Arthur
and only a few elements survive in the English legends. The English
added a great deal, then it was modernized with French medieval
ideas of chivalry and romance. Is Lancelot a character of fan
fiction or is he canonical?
What are you favorite versions of the legends of Arthur? What
draws me to a version tends to be the historical or a new and
different viewpoint on the story, so I like Ellis' Chronicles
of the Celts for the stories of Fionn, Bernard Cornwell's
recent trilogy beginning with Enemy of God which treats
Arthur as a 5th century warlord trying to deal with the Saxon
invasion while preserving a few remnants of Roman civilization
(I also like the ambiguity of magic in this one--the viewpoint
character believes but as a 21st century reader, you see the psychology
manipulation and trickery in it but can never be sure), and MZB's
The Mists of Avalon for Morgaine's viewpoint.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
[> [> Re: The Endurance of Fan Fiction -- phoenix,
16:12:58 11/17/03 Mon
Is Lancelot a character of fan fiction? I probably don't know
enough about the subject to comment...but I will anyway. As far
as I recall, Lancelot was absent from the earliest versions of
the legend, he arrives with the age of chivalry and courtly love,
to represent those concepts in the story, and so in a sense maybe
he is a product of medieval fan fic.
Favourite versions? The first novels, as opposed to story books,
which I remember reading were the Mary Stewart trilogy about Merlin.
I must have been eleven or twelve at the time and I remember hiding
out in the school library being enthralled by her version of Romano-Celtic
Britain and the complicated character of Merlin from early boyhood
onwards. There was also quite a lot of Mithras worship in the
book, that left a lasting impression. Later I read some Malory,
but especially loved the Tolkien translation of Sir Gawain and
the Green Knight, by the prolific anon, oooh, I get chills just
thinking about it. Later still I read the Mists of Avalon which,although
not brilliantly written, made a huge impression on me, I loved
MZB's vision of a very pagan myth told from a female perspective.
Arthur from the women's point of view I thought, about time. Plus,
she seemed to have a real feeling for the part of the country
she was writing about, and now I find it hard not to picture Glastonbury
as an island, because the discription was so vivid. There were
other things I read over the years but for some reason those are
the ones that stayed with me. I haven't read the Bernard Cornwell
books yet, really must get around to that.
I just realised that another thing which struck me when I began
watching Buffy was that it was set here and now, not long ago
in some far distant land, or on another planet, but in a world
recognizably just like ours, give or take some vampires and random
demons. I loved the immediacy, the familiarity, and realised that
when something like Beowulf was first told it would have had that
feeling of familiarity for its audience which it has lost over
time. It reminded me that myths are not only things found in the
dusty tomes so beloved of Giles, that once many of them would
probably have been just as contemporary and familiar as a show
like Buffy is to us.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
[> [> That's what worries me -- Finn Mac Cool, 21:10:32
11/17/03 Mon
Don't tell me it doesn't bother you that, a thousand years from
now, BtVS may be remembered as the story of Spike's sister turned
redeemed-vampire-without-a-soul who serves the role of relationship
judge in making Buffy confess her true feelings for Spike?
P.S. Isn't Lancelot something of a Mary Sue? He easily surpasses
all of the other knights, he's the main character in like 75%
of the stories set after his arrival, he gets to shag the principal
female character as well as being lusted after by all of the others,
and he is the father of a prophecied child who practically has
everything handed to him by deus ex machina.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> Re: That's what worries me -- phoenix,
04:31:38 11/18/03 Tue
Oh my God, you're right, Lancelot is a Marty Sue. Quick, somebody
call the Arthurian PPC!
[> [> [> Re: Calling all readers and writers of fan
fic... -- dmw, 16:31:26 11/12/03 Wed
What I was essentially wondering is how much do you find that
reading, or writing, fan fic affects the way you then view the
show? Is the seeming explosion of fiction posted on line seriously
changing the way that we relate to the TV shows we watch by making
viewing a more active and interactive experince? If so what does
that say about our perceptions of the world around us.
Watching the reruns of BtVS affected how I viewed the show and
so has reading and writing fan fiction. Both have increased the
degree to which I've scrutinized episodes and characters, which
has sometimes made me more critical and other times made me less
critical. For example, I found it much more satisfying to watch
The Gift the second time when I could focus on the episode instead
of all the questions racing through my mind the first time about
how the episode didn't make sense.
Fan fiction has made me more sympathetic toward characters who
I generally found annoying such as Dawn and Anya. It's also made
me look more closely at the small details in the show, both because
of reading fan fiction that mentions them and because of rewatching
scenes to research my own fan fiction. Some of the details have
been satisfying, filling in little bits of setting or character,
while others have been annoying as they cleared missed some things
while they were filming.
I am becoming increasingly fascinated by the fact that thousands
of people are not only absorbing the story as is, but contributing
to it and joining in the creation of it. What do you feel provokes
people to do that, rather than writing an original story, for
instance?
I can't speak for everyone, but what inspired me to write fan
fiction was the derailment of the promising dark Willow arc in
season 6 with the appearance of magic addiction. Several of my
favorite stories, such as Sassette's Answering
Darkness and Lisa's Unexpected
Consequences appear to arise from a similar inspiration.
Has anyone actually done a study of this topic, and if so
where can I find it?
People do research fan fiction, and in fact, I know a person who's
writing her dissertation on the subject. I used to have a great
collection of links on the subject, but I can't find it in my
bookmarks at the moment...
[> [> [> Fanfic frenzy -- Spike's princess, 17:26:23
11/12/03 Wed
I am actually obseesed with fanfic, and at some point I got very
confused once the show ended as to what was actually in the reality
of buffy and what i had read. But my priorities have been sorted
and Laura can stop hitting me for telling her things that she
didn't know only cos someone made them up. But the fanfic thing
is great. I like seeing how people interpret joss's work.
[> Depends...(beware: long rant ahead) -- angel's nibblet,
14:36:36 11/12/03 Wed
I used to be an avid fic reader, although I never really wrote
much myself, but I began to notice that (duh) much of it was pretty
dull and unimaginative, cliched and also in many cases seemed
to only serve the purpose of inserting the author, or a substitute
for the author, into our beloved Buffyverse. This to me seems
like a very poor way to treat the show and its mythology as this
generally adds very little, if nothing, to our understanding of
the characters.
That is not to say that a well written fic cannot include original
characters or unusual situations, as long as it does not implausibly
distort the already existing characters. I feel that as long as
you work with what's already there, you can only go so far wrong.
But you're question wasn't about my opinion of fanfic :-P
So back to the beginning...sorry, I get very easily sidetracked
:-D
Yes I think it is very easy to let the fanfic you read influence
the way you view the tv show, or even your memories of it, both
adversely and in a good way.
For example, a well written fic on a character you dislike might
help you to think differently about that character, perhaps go
back and rewatch episodes they feature in, look at them in a new
light, reevaluate their actions and perhaps begin to appreciate
or (dare I say it?) even like them.
Of course it has always been important to watch without prejudice,
but let's get realistic- everyone has their hang ups, little traits
in characters that annoy them.
A well written character fic can help to clear you of prejudices
you have against a certain character. It's like the old saying
of walking in someone else's shoes- the best way to understanding
a person, and the same goes for a television character, is to
put yourself in their position, if even for an instant.
I have to admit that, as appears to be the case with many viewers,
when Kennedy first came onto the scene, I didn't like her, period.
I was still in a Tara/Willow state of mind and felt that it was
too soon for Willow to be moving on to someone else. It may have
also been her extreme cockiness, she was a brat of proportions
that perhaps even Dawn- as much as I love her- could never reach.
It wasn't till later that I realised how important Kennedy was
to Willow's healing process: if it hadn't been for that kiss and
Willow turning into Warren and finally expressing her feelings
of guilt over Tara's death, would she really ever have been able
to deal with them properly? I now feel thoroughy ashamed of my
earlier opinions :-S.
Anyway, my point is, a well written fic can help you appreciate
a character and see them in a way that perhaps you wouldn't have
before, and therefore enrich your viewing experience :-)
On the other hand, it is possible to let fanfic distort your view
of characters and even events that happened on screen. I have
a friend, bless her soul, who is an extremely devoted Spike fan,
though not to the exclusion of other characters. She is also an
avid fic reader/ writer and quite often we'll be discussing the
show/s and she'll come out with something like "Oh, it's
like that time when..." and I'll say "What? That never
happened!" and she'll realise that it was not something that
ever happened or was referred to onscreen, but something she'd
read in a fic.
In short, for some people it can become difficult to determine
between fic and canon.
Yes, so my opinion is that- yes reading fic does definitely affect
your view of the show and its characters, and can do so both negatively
and positively.
So, does that sort of answer your question? Sorry, my head hurts
now.....
PS: HonorH can I just say how much I love and adore your writing
already? You keep exterminating plot holes and assasinating Mary
Sues girlfriend!
[> [> laundry imps and the collective unconscious.
-- phoenix, 16:00:42 11/12/03 Wed
Just have to say, angel's nibblet, great name. Yes, it does answer
my question to an extent, and I find myself agreeing with everything
you had to say, but there is still something about this whole
subject, I'm not sure exactly what, that is niggling at the back
of my mind and won't quite let go. A bit like Argyle the laundry
imp with a nice tasty sock.( Okay, now I can't stop borrowing
mental images from HonorH ). That is why after months of happy
lurking at this board I finally decided to post, maybe to try
and figure out what it is I'm trying to figure out. I know there
is an answer somewhere.
I'm thinking back to a post I read last week, I think it was Omn,
talking about how our thoughts shape our reality. He recounted
a short story that he had read many years before about how most
of the world population died in a plague. A few survivours took
ship to try and escape the contagion, but they died too, until
there were only about seven left. Looking out to sea they noticed
a strange thing...instead of the distant land, and water, they
saw a white expanse of nothingness moving, closing in on them.
One of them had an idea of what might be happening, he suggested
that it was the combined thoughts of everyone on the planet that
had created and sustained the reality they lived in, now that
almost everyone was dead it was breaking down. He convinced the
group that the way to save themselves was to use their thoughts
to re-imagine the world, and that is exactly what they did. They
re-imagined the sea around them and it began to appear, they imagined
land, a beach where the ship landed and they walked into the new
world.
Now I'm not convinced that our thoughts shape reality to that
extent, but they definitely have a powerful effect. Just imagine
the effect that all those women, and men thinking of naked Spike
must be having...or maybe better not. What effect does it have
when instead of simply viewing a story and then going out for
pizza, people become active participants in it, debating it and
having the most fascinating "live, the universe, and everything,"
discussions, as at this board,( or, Angel's a hottie, no Spike's
hotter, at another board),or add to it by weaving their own stories
around it?
Maybe this is actually a question about the human urge to make
myths, and the power of the collective unconscious.Why do we do
it, what does it mean to us, why do we all gather at the Scoobies
site instead of doing one of the many other things we could be
doing, what effect do the tales we create have on us and the world
around us?
Urrrg, my brain is melting, this is why I shouldn't try to write
when I'm meant to be fast asleep. I'm sure this subject has been
discussed here, far more coherently, before, but if anyone can
make any sense of this ramble and would like to launch in and
be all insightfull and intellectually brilliant it would make
me very happy (-:
[> [> [> Hehe...loved the laundry imp, where can I
get one?! -- angel's nibblet, 16:21:40 11/12/03 Wed
Thanks, I'm rather fond of my name myself :-D I am also a long-time
lurker who finally decided, only recently to put in her two cents
worth.
I remember that post about the short story, and I would love to
read it but no one seems to remember what it was called! Maybe
I'll go on a hunt for it later.
Sorry, I think I'll have to ponder this one for a while, perhaps
go away and collect my thoughts, ask opinions etc. Also I have
to go and play netball in the rain soon *sob* which could perhaps
lead to some kind of spiritual enlightenment...
Hope to have a well thought-out answer to your quesiton soon!
[> [> [> Collective imagination -- angel's nibblet,
16:37:03 11/12/03 Wed
I've always had this crazy thought that: what if our collective
imaginations are in fact creating this whole world out there somewhere?
I mean, if you think about the massive amount time and mental
energy that is put into something like Buffy, not only by its
creators but by the people who watch, who think about it and then
come online to places like this to discuss it and dissect it,
is it so far fetched to wonder if, by sheer force of imagination
and mind, that we are actually making these characters and this
world, in some way, a real place? But that means that somewhere
out there there totally naked Spike wandering around, and that
is just too much for my teenaged brain to handle...
What I mean to say is, I think the reason people write fanfics
is because we want this to be real. We want these characters to
be as real as possible (not that they aren't well thought out
in the first place, but you know what I mean) and I guess fanfic
is one way of carrying that one step further, off the screen and
into our imaginations, where these people can exist.
If that makes any sense...
Now maybe I can go away and think about addressing your original
question!
Sorry for rambling, I just find this topic really fascinating.
[> [> [> [> Re: Collective imagination -- Spike's princess,
17:04:59 11/12/03 Wed
You crazy rabbit I found you!!
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Collective imagination
-- Spike's princess,
17:10:44 11/12/03 Wed
SO this is great. I actually think that this place is perfect
for crazies like you and I, Miss Angel's nibblet. See on the flipside.
The whole laundry mat thing . . . a little odd, but thats why
i love you
[> [> [> [> [> *Runs and hides* Nooooooooo!
Welcome you crazy person, finally decided to join me eh? --
angel's nibblet, 17:11:08 11/12/03 Wed
Introducing my good friend..... be nice everyone, she's fragile
;-)
[> [> [> [> [> [> I AM NOT FRAGILE (shatters
into a million pieces) -- Spike's
princess, 17:20:53 11/12/03 Wed
Well, i'm a little bit crazy but I think I can handle talking
to the nice people. My thought for the day is . . .
I found it odd that Anya would open up in Chosen. To andrew of
all people. And then to lighten the "we're all possibly gonna
die" mood, they have a wheelchair fight. Too great. Am i
the only one who's sad it's over? I mean high school is over now
too and our fragile little world is being bounced like a basketball.
Will the madness end?
[> [> [> [> Re: Collective imagination -- dmw,
19:11:29 11/12/03 Wed
I've always had this crazy thought that: what if our collective
imaginations are in fact creating this whole world out there somewhere?
That's a semi-popular idea in science fiction. The first book
I can recall reading it in is Heinlein's Number of the Beast,
though another author, perhaps Piper, used the idea much earlier.
The book's total dreck so don't read it, but it's a fun idea that
could be used in an interesting novel by an author less self-indulgent
and more coherent than Heinlein was in his later years.
[> [> [> [> On the other side of the wardrobe,
in desperate need of a physicist. -- phoenix, 07:27:21
11/13/03 Thu
I find it fascinating too, that's why I brought it up, it's the
kind of thing that keeps me awake at night wondering where the
boundaries really are. I know it is a subject already much written
about in sci-fi and fantasy, but I just seem to keep getting drawn
back to it.
Many years ago, when I was small, I remember my ,very well read
and mystically inclined ,mother telling me a story she had found
about a Western traveller who had spent time with a group of Buddist
monks in the Himalayas. I forget the details, but the basic story
was that these monks had discovered through meditation a way of
focusing their thoughts so powerfully that they they actually
took on form. They created a thought form creature, kind of a
shadow of a person, there wasn't much to it at first but as the
days went by it became more and more "real", its consciousness
grew to the point where the monks began to worry about what they
might have created and un-made it. I have no idea how much truth,if
any, there is in that story, but it equally intrigued and disturbed
me, I think because deep down I belived that something like that
could theoretically happen. I admit that was around the same time
that I was dealing with the disappointment of finding that I couldn't
get through the back of my wardrobe to a snow-bound magical kingdom.
That probably tells you everything you need to know about me.
I'm over it now...really (-:
Anyway, the condensed version is, if everything is energy, including
our thoughts then shouldn't it be possible that our thoughts could
take some kind of material form under certain circumstances? Or
might already be and we are simply not aware of it. Are there
any physicists out there who would like to wade into this discussion?
To my regret I am to science what Harmony is to super villains.(Vacuous
tramp. Sorry, just had to say that). I know that thoughts, especially
when combined with strong emotion can be very powerful. I had
a friend who used to cause light bulbs to blow when she got angry,
I kid you not, she was hard on light fittings. So yes, you could
posit the question, if millions of people are thinking hard about
Buffy, and judging by the internet there seem to be a lot of addicts
out there, is that having an effect on material reality, whatever
that is exactly? Or even creating some kind of alternate reality?
It doesn't have to apply to Buffy alone, it's about anything which
fires the imagination and emotions.
I've just remembered an excellent Neil Gaiman novel ,called American
Gods, which seems relevant to this line of thinking. His premise
was that peoples' belief in and worship of certain god forms like
Odin or Bast had actually caused those god forms to be manifest.
The question was what happened to the old god/esses that the waves
of immigrants brought to America and then forgot over time? If
you want the answer I'm afraid you'll have to read the book as
I've been rambling way longer than I intended, and I should be
working. Guilt, guilt.
Also of possible relevance, and I'd be really interested to hear
thoughts about this...I've been studying shamanic practice for
about the last eighteen months, though I'm not spending nearly
as much time as I would like to on it. Part of the work involves
going into an altered state of consciousness using drumming and
journeying in either the Upper, Middle or Lower Worlds, with the
help of an animal guide. Something I found interesting is that
on their journeys (which tend to be full of metaphorical goodness)people
often seem to visit the same places and meet the same inhabitants.
Even people who have no contact with eachother. I began wondering
if the places I go when I journey might have some kind of existance
outside my psyche, just as the old shamans held that they did.
I've arrived back at the collective unconscious again haven't
I!
[> [> [> [> [> Physicist on-call -- dmw,
10:50:33 11/13/03 Thu
Anyway, the condensed version is, if everything is energy,
including our thoughts then shouldn't it be possible that our
thoughts could take some kind of material form under certain circumstances?
The simple relationship between matter and energy given to us
by Einstein is:
E = m c2
where E is energy, m is rest mass, and c is the speed of light,
which is approximately 3 * 108 m/s2. That
indicates that a small amount of matter can be converted to an
enormous amount of energy, as c2 is approximately 1017
or a 100,000,000,000,000,000 in ordinary decimal notation. That's
why nuclear reactions are such an effective means of generating
power even though they convert a fraction of 1% of the matter
involved into energy.
However, that ratio works against your theory, since when attempting
to convert energy to mass, you need to put in 1017
times as much energy as the amount of mass you want to get out.
We turn energy into matter every day in particle accelerators
around the world--that's how new particles, such as the top quark
found in 1995, are discovered. However, it takes tremendous amounts
of energy to do this (and you only get the particular particle
you want a small fraction of the time, with quantum randomness
giving you collections of other particles the remainder of the
time.) We have the capability to turn lead into gold, but it requires
so much energy that it costs far more to produce the energy than
you can sell the gold for.
The energy output of your brain is insignificant compared to that
of a particle accelerator and the accelerator can only produce
subatomic particles, so you simply don't have enough energy to
produce anything above the microscopic scale from your thoughts
even if you could find a way to focus that energy.
p.s.: For other scientists who may be reading, I should note that
this account has been simplified to eliminate most details which
would likely confuse a casual reader.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Physicist on-call
-- phoenix, 12:48:12 11/13/03 Thu
You mean I can't make my own Faith just by thinking hard enough...curses,
foiled again (-; Thanks for making it the simplified version,
I'm going away to do some serious,er,thinking.
By the way, I seem to remember reading your Endless Moments:Destiny
story a while back and really enjoying it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Physicist on-call
-- dmw, 18:14:19 11/13/03 Thu
You mean I can't make my own Faith just by thinking hard enough...curses,
foiled again (-;
Alas, no, but you could get a skin scraping and with a bit of
work and about 18 years, you could have an Eliza Dushku clone...(-;
By the way, I seem to remember reading your Endless Moments:Destiny
story a while back and really enjoying it.
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Another question for dmw.
-- phoenix, 03:42:13 11/14/03 Fri
I have another question that occured to me after reading this,
although the lead into gold reference my have already answered
it.
So, it takes an enormous amount of energy to create a tiny amount
of matter, but what if you used said energy to simply re-make
the matter already present into an exiting new form?
As I said, I'm pretty much a scientific illiterate so please be
gentle with me (-:
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Another question
for dmw. -- dmw, 11:46:59 11/16/03 Sun
So, it takes an enormous amount of energy to create a tiny
amount of matter, but what if you used said energy to simply re-make
the matter already present into an exiting new form?
Altering chemical bonds requires little energy and certainly your
brain produces enough energy to do that, but once you start moving
matter around, that takes work though as long as you remain at
the molecular level, you'll be fine. However, constructing something
as complex as a person encounters another problem--information
storage. After all, you'd have to have a mental copy of them to
do that, and that presents problems--your brain would have to
store not only all the information in their brain but also all
the information required to reproduce their molecular structure.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Thank you.
-- phoenix, 14:28:34 11/16/03 Sun
So theoretically, at least, it's possible to create a rock perhaps,
or some of that alphabet spagettie, using only the power of your
brain. Hmmm, interesting, thank you. This is all making me wish
I had paid far more attention in science class at school, sadly
I was too busy wishing I was somewhere else, and writing bad poetry.
I know that the average human only uses a tiny fraction of their
mental capacity, I wonder if anyone has managed to figure out
what the actual storage capacity of an average brain would be?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Myths
about the brain -- Gyrus, 07:17:05 11/18/03 Tue
I know that the average human only uses a tiny fraction of
their mental capacity
That's actually a common misconception, one which probably arose
from the popular statement that "we only use 10% of our brains."
The truth is that most people use nearly all of their mental abilities
(i.e., 100% of their brains) -- just not all at the same time.
The parts of your brain involved in recognizing faces or orchestrating
the motor movements needed to play the piano are mostly dormant
when you are trying to solve a crossword puzzle, but that doesn't
mean they are "unused"; they're just unused at that
moment.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> It's
a good thing too -- dmw, 13:06:26 11/18/03 Tue
Good point, and it would probably be bad for your health to use
every module of your brain at once even if there was some purpose
to doing so. Can your body supply enough oxygen and nutrients
in the blood to do that? Even if it can, can your body dissipate
the heat generated by the activity?
Hyperthreading on the Pentium 4 allows you to use more of your
microprocessor at one time. That sounds good, but people discovered
(as expected) that the chip drew power and gave off extra heat
in direct proportion to the extra activity. Some people who used
hyperthreading with old heat sinks and fans found that their chips
would shut down to prevent from melting due to the increased heat.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: It's a good thing too -- phoenix, 15:34:52 11/18/03
Tue
Thanks for setting that straight. It also gives me a good excuse
for my occasional serious lapses of memory...I over used my brain
and it melted (-:
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
Re: It's a good thing too -- Gyrus, 07:50:42 11/19/03
Wed
Good point, and it would probably be bad for your health to
use every module of your brain at once even if there was some
purpose to doing so. Can your body supply enough oxygen and nutrients
in the blood to do that?
The brain doesn't consume nearly as much of the body's resources
as muscles do, so oxygen and nutrients wouldn't be much of a problem.
However, I don't know what effect the simultaneous expansion of
all of the brain's capillaries (which would be necessary in order
to increase the blood flow to all those areas) might have, i.e.,
whether it could swell the brain up to the point that the brain
tissue could be damaged. Furthermore, the effects of complete
activation of the brain would probably resemble a grand mal seizure,
and those certainly aren't good for you.
Even if it can, can your body dissipate the heat generated
by the activity?
The brain itself doesn't generate much heat. However, the effects
of having every area of your brain active at the same time might
include the contraction of every muscle in your body, which could
very well raise your body temperature.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [>
[> Re: It's a good thing too -- dmw, 18:28:09 11/19/03
Wed
The brain doesn't consume nearly as much of the body's resources
as muscles do, so oxygen and nutrients wouldn't be much of a problem.
The brain uses 30% of the body's daily caloric intake, which seems
to indicate that increases its usage by a factor of 10 would cause
a problem in terms of supplying the local area of the brain with
enough energy. In addition, you have to get that supply to it
with the current circulatory system, which is likely inadequate
as well.
Furthermore, the effects of complete activation of the brain
would probably resemble a grand mal seizure, and those certainly
aren't good for you.
True, it would activate all the muscles and that would be bad.
The brain itself doesn't generate much heat.
The body's normal blood flow and activity is enough to keep the
brain's temperature at around 37C and the human body is extraordinary
temperature sensitive compared to microprocessors. It's true you
won't see 100+C temperature increases like you'd see in an uncooled
processor, but fevers much above 40 are considered dangerous and
a 3-4C increases from a 10-fold activity increase seems plausible.
[> [> Thank you! and more. -- HonorH, 21:41:00
11/12/03 Wed
I'm glad you enjoy my fic.
For me, writing has always been about trying to understand the
characters. If a character does something I don't understand or
don't like, I try to imagine what his/her thought processes must
have been (much like I did with "Leather" and Robin
Wood). Writing helps me to work out my own thoughts and feelings
about the characters and show, among other things. Also, a really
well-written character piece can alter the way I view that character
completely. That's why I always challenge people to try and write
characters they don't like--because in writing them, you start
to understand them a little more.
[> [> [> Most fics start with a question -- Gyrus,
15:18:59 11/14/03 Fri
For me, writing has always been about trying to understand
the characters. If a character does something I don't understand
or don't like, I try to imagine what his/her thought processes
must have been.
This is frequently the way it works for me, too. I wrote "Floppy
Girls" (a horror story about Drusilla's train ride to Sunnydale
just before the events of "Crush" in S5) because I didn't
understand why Dru would leave her doll, Miss Edith, on the train.
"Turn Out the Lights, Jack" was written in an attempt
to explain why Cassie Newton's father (from "Help")
loves his daughter but won't do anything about his alcoholism.
A lot of my fics work the other way, though, because they start
by putting characters in a situation and then seeing how they
would react. For example, I wrote "Inside" because I
wondered how Faith would deal with being in solitary confinement.
So I guess a lot of fan fics start off with a question: "Why
did you do that?" or "What would you do if...?"
(There are also, of course, fics that start off with, "How
do I get the characters to...?" but I'm a bit more skeptical
about those.)
confirming plans for anom's
big birthday on thursday: rl meet, then chat party! -- anom,
23:15:37 11/11/03 Tue
NY ATPosters are meeting at Viva Natural Pizzeria, 64 E. 34th
St. (slightly W. of Park Av. on the downtown side of 34th), unless
anyone objects to a no-meat meet (speak up--now's your chance!).
So far, we've got shadowkat, cjl, & sdev, in addition to the guest
of honor, of course. Anyone else? Come sit out the rush hour,
enjoy pizza & good company, & celebrate as anom goes from 49.99
to the big 5-0!! Let's meet at 6:00; later we'll find someplace
for cake. I'm not working in-house that day after all, but I am
the day before, so I'll ask around where I'm working for suggestions.
Or if someone knows a good place, let me know! Maybe we'll go
do something afterwards, if folks are up for it.
BTW, I forgot to change the channel setting to tape Tru Calling
last week (I should know better than to set the VCR when I'm rushing
out the door). I don't suppose anyone coming to the meet has a
tape they could bring to lend me? 'Cause I want to be able to
read the "Building on Fire" thread! Or is it even worth
borrowing a tape? I mean, I want to give it a chance, but that
could also just mean watching this week's ep & forgetting about
last week's.
Finally, I'll be around in the evening for a chat party, probably
starting ~11. Hope to see a bunch of you there!
Replies:
[> I'll be there! -- cjl, 07:21:41 11/12/03 Wed
[> I'll be there -- s'kat, 10:25:55 11/12/03 Wed
[> I'd love to come, but I'm bogged down with schoolwork
right now! -- Rob (who will be there in spirit...please save
some cake), 11:30:22 11/12/03 Wed
[> [> i hope you'll also be there in chat--you're not
too bogged down for that, are you? -- anom, setting aside
some cyber-cake, 22:05:04 11/12/03 Wed
[> A premature happy birthday! -- d'Herblay, 17:04:14
11/12/03 Wed
[> [> thanks! nothin' wrong w/being premature--i was!
-- anom, 22:09:07 11/12/03 Wed
[> Happy Birthday, anom! -- Sarand, 19:26:53 11/12/03
Wed
I'm not in New York right now or I would join you all. I'm staying
with my folks out here in the Midwest (where the broadcast of
the first half of tonight's episode of Angel was screwed up. Grr
Arghhh!). I hope there will be other get-togethers after I return
to NYC in a couple of months. In any event, have a good time and
enjoy your birthday!
[> [> of *course* there'll be more nyc get-togethers!
-- anom, 09:33:05 11/17/03 Mon
Too bad we'll have to wait so long to see you at one of them,
but I hope you're having a good visit & that you & your family--old
& new!--are doing fine.
[> Happy Birthday anom;-> I'll be in chat.. -- Drizzt,
20:14:57 11/12/03 Wed
[> [> see you there, drizzt! -- anom, 22:15:31
11/12/03 Wed
I may not be there till pretty late, though--like ~11 EST.
[> [> [> Re: see you there, drizzt! -- Drizzt,
18:33:14 11/13/03 Thu
I might have a schedule problem then...internet is at library
& the latest I can be on is 11 to 12 EST. Also I am in transition
re housing, wich is a whole different complication.
Happy Birthday again, just in case I miss you
D :>)
[> [> [> [> Re: see you there, drizzt! -- LittleBit,
18:49:05 11/13/03 Thu
You can come and talk to other people, too! I'm there now
[> [> Re: Happy Birthday anom;-> I'll be in chat..
-- Wombat, 04:32:01 11/13/03 Thu
Happy Birthday, Anom!!! If plans go as we hope, Squirrel, Ded,
and I will be at my other daughter's college to see Anything Goes
tonight (I LOVE live theatre!) and don't know if we'll be back
in time for chat. But have a super birthday today! You, too, can
live through the big 50 - I've heard it can be done from very
close sources.
[> [> [> thanks, 'bat! not that i had any doubts...
-- anom, 09:45:23 11/17/03 Mon
...about living through 50, but a little reassurance never hurts.
I missed you in chat, but I hope you had a good time at the show!
[> be there too -- sdev, 20:55:22 11/12/03 Wed
[> Happy Birthday, anom!! -- LadyStarlight, 05:15:26
11/13/03 Thu
Will try & make it to chat, but if not, Happy Birthday again!
;)
[> It's your birthday, anom! Time to open your presents!
-- Cactus Watcher, 06:08:25 11/13/03 Thu
To anom who gave us the cyclops @>) and who travels far and
wide to meet fellow scoobies I give this beautiful 80-foot cyber-yacht
the Pun Fun One so you can cruiser the net in comfort and
style.
It's also a fast ship that you can enter in yacht races. People
will ask you, "How did Pun Fun One run?. You'll proudly
reply, "Pun Fun One won!"
Some admiring young lad will ask what time you usually return
your yacht to the marina. You can say, "When I'm done with
Pun Fun One, son!"
To our genuine master of pun fu, a genuine Happy Birthday!
[> [> whoa! this is amazing! thanks, cw!!! -- anom,
19:29:20 11/15/03 Sat
A yacht? A yacht to sail the Cyber Sea! And avast sea it
is. Cactus Watcher, let me invite you aboard for the 1st run of
Pun Fun One! For, & aft-er all, I need someone aboard to
teach me how to run Pun Fun One! Don't be too stern
to help me learn, but take a bow & show me how. Once I've mast-ered
it, I'll navigate the strait(line)s & have chat parties on my
cyber-yacht! And everyone will come, 'cause who could shun Pun
Fun One, when they can laze on the deck in the cyber-sun?
Then I'll bring Pun Fun One into port--the one my modem's
plugged into, of course. You can be shore I'm prow-d of this magnificent
vessel.
Of course, the cool thing about cyber-sailing is that it's like
using the map the Bellman bought for his crew in The Hunting
of the Snark:
"He had bought a large map representing the sea
Without the least vestige of land,
And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
A map they could all understand!
'What's the good of Mercator's north poles and equators,
Tropics, zones, and meridian lines?'
So the Bellman would cry, and the crew would reply,
'They are merely conventional signs!
Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes,
But we've got our brave Captain to thank'
(So the crew would protest) 'that he's bought us the best--
A perfect and absolute blank!'"
Now that I've spun all these puns, CW, all I can say is, I'm stunned.
Thanks a ton for Pun Fun One, hon!
[> Happy birthday! -- Ponygirl, 06:26:49 11/13/03
Thu
[> And a very loud "Penblwydd Hapus!" from me!
-- Marie, 06:45:44 11/13/03 Thu
[> Happy Birthday, anom! :-) -- OnM, 06:46:13 11/13/03
Thu
[> Scorpio babies rule! -- Masq, 07:45:39 11/13/03
Thu
Happy birthday anom!
[> Hippo Birdy Two Ewes! -- dub, 08:47:23 11/13/03
Thu
Have a great one, anom! Having reached the venerable age of 50
before you, I can report there'll be clear sailing ahead for the
Pun Fun One!
;o)
[> [> hey, dub! a bit o' boynton is always welcome!
-- anom, 19:36:33 11/15/03 Sat
And thanks for the nautical weather report! Just to clarify, though:
the yacht is Pun Fun One, but I'm the pun fun one!
[> Happy Birthday anom -- Celebaelin, 09:15:03 11/13/03
Thu
[> Happy Birthday, anom! -- Arethusa, 10:53:05 11/13/03
Thu
[> Happy birthday -- Tchaikovsky, 14:01:39 11/13/03
Thu
[> Happy BD to you, Happy BD to you! -- mamcu [not carrying
the tune, but sending the thought], 14:33:53 11/13/03 Thu
[> Happy birthday anom! -- KdS, 14:37:30 11/13/03
Thu
Have a great milestone!
[> I'm there already %^) -- LittleBit [draping the chat
room with black crepe], 18:27:19 11/13/03 Thu
[> [> "black crepe"? you're gonna have to explain
that one, 'bit! -- anom, 19:38:34 11/15/03 Sat
[> thanks to all the rl attendees! it was great! --
anom, 23:30:03 11/13/03 Thu
Earlier, I met my brother for lunch, & then went to the Museum
of Natural History to look at the new blue whale & wander around
learning about ocean life till it was time to go to the meet.
Not only did cjl, shadowkat, & sdev come, but sofdog showed up
too, for her 1st ATPo board meet! And I even ran into dariel (who
unfortunately hadn't seen the announcement & couldn't stay) on
the way there! The rest of us found a table & talked Buffy/Angel
(the shows, not the 'ship) for at least 1/2 hour before anyone
said, "So are we going to actually get any pizza?" So
we ate & talked some more, about the shows (skirting spoilers),
the board, other sites (which I know next to nothing about), other
shows (Smallville, Alias), life in NYC, even some politics, I
think. Then we went to another restaurant for dessert (triple
chocolate mousse torte!!) & yet more talking. It was a great way
to spend my 50th birthday! Still trying to get my mind around
the concept of having been around for half a century!
I'd been thinking of going to hear some music after the meet...yeah,
right! As it was, even though I came straight home I didn't arrive
till ~11:30 & couldn't get into chat till almost 12. Sorry I missed
so many of you in chat! But some folks were there, coming & going.
Thanks to everyone who showed up, whether I was there yet or not!
[> [> Great meeting you all! -- Sofdog, 10:46:17
11/14/03 Fri
[> [> much fun & great meeting you too Sofdog --
sdev, 13:15:21 11/15/03 Sat
[> 1 last thank-you for all the b'day wishes--on the board,
in person, & in chat! -- anom, whose next thread will be on
my upcoming travels...., 10:22:21 11/17/03 Mon
[> Happy Birthday....anom -- Rufus...fellow old fart....sometimes
cranky old fart, 17:55:07 11/17/03 Mon
[> [> thanks, f.o.f.! -- anom, who didn't have to
wait till 50 to be cranky sometimes, 22:38:26 11/18/03 Tue
[> good wishes and good travels -- MsGiles, 09:05:02
11/18/03 Tue
[> [> Re: HB -- Brian, 10:00:11 11/18/03 Tue
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