December 2002 posts
not
buffy/angel related: Book Recommends... -- canadianchrmer,
15:10:15 12/19/02 Thu
hey,
I was just wondering if anyone has any good book recommends, I
am really into the whole sci-fi thing and like mystical thing
(Im a big tolkien fan) and well I was just wondering what books
everyone likes...anyway theres one that I recommend its called
the sisterhood of the travling pants and its about friendships
that endure all and just have faith when they are apart and have
fun with eachothers adventures
That and Lord of the rings, really good movie but an awesome book
:)
Any books ya'll recommend?
[> Got a bunch! -- Sara,
16:42:53 12/19/02 Thu
Check out "Joe Gould's Secret" by Joseph Mitchell -
a fascinating story of a homeless man with an amazing project.
If anyone else reads it and wants to discuss it let me know!
I just finished reading "Naked" by David Sedaris,which
is a very entertaining group of essays - to quote a relatively
new cliche - "he puts the fun in dysfunction."
"American Gods" by Neil Gaiman is a very entertaining
and fast read, really engaging. His book "Stardust"
is also a lovely type of fairy tale. Just be warned, his stuff
will get somewhat raw in spots, kind of unexpected. I may be a
little more sensitive to that at this point in my life, because
I know my son would enjoy his books, and those very small sections
make the book less appropriate for a kid.
I recently read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
by Phillip K. Dick and am currently reading "The Man in the
High Castle." "Do Androids Dream..." was a fun
book to read, and some great ideas and scenes, but I'm finding
"The Man in the High Castle" to be truly chilling. It's
premise is that German and Japan won World War II and shows the
world Dick envisoned 30 or so years later. I have never really
had a concept of what a long-term occupation might feel like and
this making it very real and quite terrifying in a "life
goes on" kind of way. In terms of occupation, and the horrors
of war, I would also wish that everyone would read John Steinbeck's
"The Moon is Down." It is a wonderful cautionary tale
of why you don't want to occupy a country. After reading (actually
listening to an audio version, but why quibble) it, I got a whole
new perspective on US activities in the Middle East. Now that
I'm thinking about it, those two books make for some very interesting
contrasts.
- Sara
[> [> Re: Got a bunch!
-- Jordan, 19:24:24 12/19/02 Thu
Hi lurker here...delurking just to say I read The Man in the Hight
Castle during the summer and it is a really good book. It changed
my view on certain things. It's amazing how one event could have
changed so many things....creepy. Anyways good choice of book.
I love the Phillip K. Dick writings. If you really like his stuff
you shold go to this website: www.id-online.de/ufo/pkdhowt2.htm
It's an essay he wrote called How to Build a Universe That Doesn't
Fall Apart Two Days Later. It really makes you think. If you have
the time you should definitely look it over.
[> [> [> Some more
books -- Michael, 15:03:05 12/20/02 Fri
If you like fantasy read The Golden Compass which is book one
in a trilogy called His Dark Materials. The other two are The
Subtle Knife (love that title) and The Amber Spyglass. The author
is Philip Pullman. You may think they are for young adults, but
they are darker than you would expect. I liked them better than
the Harry Potter series.
I also recommend The Giver by Lois Lowry which I'm sure some of
you have read. It is young adult reading but has an incredible
story. Gathering Blue is her latest.
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell is one of the most amazing sci-fi
books I have read in years. It involves the Vatican and a first
contact with aliens.
And for my favoritest book of the last few years: The Amazing
Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon. It's about
two Jewish cousins who create a comic book superhero in the 1940s.
It won the Pulitzer a couple of years ago and is an amazing tale
of transformation.
[> No mystical, but perhaps
the most terrifying book I've read -- Deb -- motor mouth with
long rant., 16:58:11 12/19/02 Thu
I'm almost finished reading "Portrait of A Killer: Jack the
Ripper Case Closed" by Patricia Cornwell. It has taken me
three weeks to get through this, and normally I suck up books
like this in one or two days.
First of all -- It is so well written. I cannot emphasize this
more. It is well written in a non-linear manner. It is so well
written that when Cornwell makes a point it is awesome, and I
have to put the book down for a few days to digest it all.
Cornwell presents the psychopathic personality, and for a few
pages (with the "definition could fit anyone" of DSM
IV) I became concerned about myself. I put the book down, but
it drew me back to keep reading. Her application of the definition
to the person she believes to have been the Ripper then assured
me that I was quite not-psychopathic, but there for awhile . .
. well let me put it this way. I thought the book was making me
sick, physically, literally. I just knew the book was making me
ill, but this is because it had penetrated my self-concept like
a fine blade, and I had this experience of being laid open, again,
for self scrutiny. Thank God I was just coming down with stomach
flu. Then again . . .
Cornwell personifies the victims . . . again touching something
inside me here. I am SO glad I did not live in Victorian London.
If my current circumstances were transferred to that period and
place (single mom, born to middle class, etc) I would have been
exactly where these women were, and it is not a pretty place to
be. . . shudders. Of course, I don't wish to believe this to be
true of myself. I would have risen to the challenge and made something
of myself. Yet, the social system at the time would have made
it difficult to avoid a shunning and a fall into social limbo.
Did I say I am so glad I don't live in Victorian London? It's
an eye opener.
I degress now, but this is the impact the book has had on me.
I was put in the position of examining my situation in today's
light of "living in America." My social standing has
taken a free-fall since divorce, and the avenues open to me became
quite limited and remain even more so today. I immediately became
a person to "pity" because of the situations I found
myself dealing with. I still have not decided if I am remorseful
about an event that occurred in the first few weeks after my divorce.
Friends had given my name to a local church as a single parent
with financial concerns. This much was true. It was this time
of year, and one night there was a knock at the door. Thankfully
my daugher was alseep. The church had collected bags and boxes
of food donations for us. I was stunned. I took the six or seven
people who were laden with the bags and boxes of food into the
kitchen and opened all the cabinets, drawers and the refrigerator.
I pointed out to them that my shelves were all full with food,
enough for a large family to eat well for weeks. I told them,
rather bluntly, that food was not a concern unless I had to find
a place to store it. Most single mothers have numerous resources
for attaining food for their children. What I needed and what
I wanted was a job so I could take care of myself and my family,
and the ability to afford medical and dental insurance so we would
access to health care. I then sent them packing with their food
and an address of a homeless shelter in the inner city where there
were truly needy people who needed the food far more than we would
ever need it. Like I said, I have not decided that I should be
remorseful about my behavior. I apologize, but this is the kind
of impact this book has had on me. Continuing on . .
The use of DNA, which preliminary results have eliminated 99%
of the world's population, and many historical suspects is engrossing,
though at this point, it is not definitive enough for US courts,
or perhaps it is.
Some of the pictures and descriptions are a bit gory, but that
fits the entire work perfectly. I actually feel as if I am there.
The past comes zooming forward to become the present. Time is
no longer linear. I'm reading the final chapters where this man's
first (of three) wives is dicussed and I have been asking myself
all through the book, "And where was his wife during all
of this?" With each answer Cornwell gives, she presents heavily
moral questions. This whole issue of "women in love with
psychopathic killers" is brought to fore.
Cornwell examines the letters of the Ripper in detail to expose
the letter not so much as just letters, but as creations of art
(which I won't go into because it leads to the identity of the
man), and of a mindframe that probably saw his deeds as nobel
and enlightening to society. (Because of Jack the Ripper, London
did clean up the East End, and policework changed forever. The
plight of the "unfortunates" also began weighing heavy
on the minds of the affluent, and brought a great deal of discussion,
much as this board, to the newspapers about what was happening
to society and what could be done to correct the injustices. Many
of the suggestions given then today appear absurd, but it just
reminds one that many of the solutions posed for today's social
problems are just as absurd.)
Cornwell also presents, through her writing, the questioning of
our present day views on the human condition that are carved in
hegamony, and suggests, to my mind at least, that modern science,
in particular medical science, just might not be any more advanced
or enlightened than it was 120 years ago.
Cornwell is also very careful, in a true journalistic sense, in
presenting information about the personal background of this man
in such a way that a human emerges, but also in a way that does
not suggest that the monsterous acts committed by this human should
be excused in any manner. These acts were choices made by a man
capable of highly self-critical thought. Indeed, feel for the
man who suffered a cruel blow of nature, but do not withhold his
personal responsiblity for his evil behavior because of this blow
of nature. Cornwell juxtapositions this argument by discussing
another well-know personage of the era and place; Joseph Merrick,
perhaps better known as "The Elephant Man," was a kind
and loving man despite his outward appearance of a "frightful
creature that could only have been possible in a nightmare."
Cornwell presents an analogy of the Ripper and Merrick being "opposite
twins" turned inside-out. The Ripper represents Merrick's
inner beauty in good looks, charisma, intelligence and talent
while Merrick's monsterous outer appearance represents the Ripper's
hidden evil, cruel, arrogant and ugly inner being.
I don't think this book is for everyone, but if you ever wonder
about social change, social responsibility, personal responsibility
and the merits of the mental illness defense, or wonder how such
an horrid evil can live and thrive in the modern world, then this
is a definite read for you.
[> [> Re: No mystical,
but perhaps the most terrifying book I've read -- canadianchrmer,
17:55:34 12/19/02 Thu
wow that looks like a really good book, I am actually interested
in Jack the Ripper because I just find it so...mystifying in a
way and I dont know its like one of those mysteries that will
forever be unsolved ya know?
[> [> hmmmmmm, I'm prejudiced
-- Rahael, 03:32:53 12/20/02 Fri
After seeing that woman slash a valuable work of art just to prove
some dubious theory about who Jack the Ripper was.
I just thought monomania. Does she actually present any kind of
convincing case for giving all sorts of 'personal' details about
the Ripper, like him having three wives? Or does she sweep along
with the force of her conviction?
I'm generally suspicious of the tendency to fetishize such 'monstrous'
men - they seem to hold a kind of inexplicable fascination for
people.
[> [> [> Did she slash
it, though? -- Marie, 04:12:12 12/20/02 Fri
I watched the recent documentary about her research for this book,
and apparently, although the tabloid press (well, who'd've thought?!)
blamed her for this act, it was apparently caused by bad packing,
and happened in transit. She seemed as upset by the damage as
anyone.
(The documentary left me unconvinced, by the way).
Marie
[> [> [> [> Blame
the Guardian, not the tabloids!! -- Rahael, 04:38:48 12/20/02
Fri
I mixed up the documentary and articles I read, including this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,615339,00.html
[> [> [> Forget Cornwell...
-- KdS, 04:19:49 12/20/02 Fri
I have very serious personal problems with Cornwell and her writing
style and approach, but let's try to keep this topic positive.
The only JtR book you need to read is Alan Moore's fictionalised
From Hell. Very gruesome in places (and based on a theory
Moore admits at the end he doesn't believe) but incredibly thought-provoking
and scary. And the epilogue asks some really hard questions of
Rah's type about why we're still interested in these hideous,
squalid little murders a century later.
And absolutely nothing to do with the film, which was an absolute
travesty of the novel.
[> [> [> [> Definitely
going to look out for that -- Rahael, 04:45:21 12/20/02
Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Definitely going to look out for that -- Celebaelin,
00:24:42 12/22/02 Sun
Synoptic.
?Northampton obsessed Alan Moore who wrote for the comic 2000AD?
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Yes, that Moore -- KdS, 01:55:04 12/22/02 Sun
[> [> [> [> I'm
not convienced she is correct -- Deb, 10:18:07 12/20/02
Fri
But she brings up very many good social points, snd the book is
well written. There is much more to the read than Jack the Ripper.
As for digging up old slashings, JtR was the first modern day
serial killer, and s/he would have been caught with forensic science
of today. In addition, it is much easier to ponder a situation
that has been distanced by time than it is to contemplate the
human predators of today. I'm going to stop right there, because
I don't want to get into a snippy mood and post things I am going
to regret later (i.e. this book review).
[> [> [> Re: hmmmmmm,
I'm prejudiced -- Rufus, 18:43:29 12/20/02 Fri
I'm generally suspicious of the tendency to fetishize such
'monstrous' men - they seem to hold a kind of inexplicable fascination
for people.
The lure of an unsolved case it too much for some, but it depends
upon their personal motives for looking at the Ripper case. There
is a big difference between someone who writes a fiction about
a crime and something else for someone with real experience to
try their hand at closing a case gone cold. I highly doubt Cornwell
is "fetishizing" the man that committed these crimes
of the past, so I'm wondering why you made that comment. Cornwell
may be investing a lot of time and money into this unsolved case,
but I think she is doing it for reasons that don't make the killing
of innocents seem in any way glamourous.
After seeing that woman slash a valuable work of art just to
prove some dubious theory about who Jack the Ripper was.
Were you a witness to the slashing of that valuble work of art,
if not then I suggest you make sure you are repeating a truth
instead of rumor. Instead of dismissing this book out of hand
how about reading it as I will be.
[> [> [> [> I was
saddened to read this message. -- Rahael, 09:30:34 12/22/02
Sun
And then surprised when I read your comment elsewhere:
"Now to Patricial Cornwell....I haven't read her books but
I think she isn't like a voyeur who just wants to write about
suffering while never knowing much about the experiences of those
who lived through it. You mentioned one thing....."
Why don't you take your own advice Rufus, before you slam another
poster for having an opinion that disagrees with you?
Moreover, when I talked of the 'tendency to fetishize' did I say
that when Cornwell appeared to be obssessed with Jack the Ripper,
that she was also a voyeur or excusing the crimes? I don't think
she does.
You also ignore the word 'prejudice' that i used Rufus, which
pointed out that i have intensely personal feelings about this....
But I am way too tired to engage in another vituperative round
of postings.
I'm still reeling from the dark place I went to, after the rape
thread. I'm so scared of death, and the people who inflcit them.
I get sad when I think that society is more interested in the
big bad killer than the person who dies. And the interest that
is shown in all the little grotesquries that the killer inflicts
on the victim.
Oh, one last thing - can we stop using the word innocent wiht
reference to victims of murder? are there ever any 'guilty' victims?
Or is murder okay if they are guilty?
If its quite okay wiht you, I will pass up on the chance to read
Cornwell's attempt to pin the murders committed by the so called
'Jack the ripper' (oh, no, that name isn't a romanticisation of
a murderer at all!) on someone who probably didn't do it. I don't
need people who like to write about 'true crimes' to know that
people like me are just as likely to be murdered as anyone else.
Don't need such people to tell me that.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: I was saddened to read this message. -- Rufus, 16:14:59
12/22/02 Sun
Why don't you take your own advice Rufus, before you slam another
poster for having an opinion that disagrees with you?
I don't think I slammed you, I asked you a question. I also was
honest in saying I hadn't read the whole book yet.
You also ignore the word 'prejudice' that i used Rufus, which
pointed out that i have intensely personal feelings about this....
I got that word right off....you also assume that you are the
only one with personal feelings about crime and victims of crime.....you
aren't.
I'm still reeling from the dark place I went to, after the
rape thread. I'm so scared of death, and the people who inflcit
them. I get sad when I think that society is more interested in
the big bad killer than the person who dies. And the interest
that is shown in all the little grotesquries that the killer inflicts
on the victim.
There is a difference in being interested in a killer for excitment
and interested in finding ways to detect these killers so they
will never do it again. What you call grotesquries are things
that professionals use to determine who may or may not have killed
them. You also seen to discount the potential that others may
have been in just as dark a place as you have been.
My main reason in suggesting you read the book was the swiftness
you discounted it. You also accused the author of a crime that
you seem to know nothing about. There is a big difference in what
I said to you and how you treated the original poster in your
need to slam something you haven't as yet read or intend to read.
Oh, one last thing - can we stop using the word innocent wiht
reference to victims of murder? are there ever any 'guilty' victims?
Or is murder okay if they are guilty?
I was referring specifically to the ladies who were murdered by
JTR, I highly doubt they had done anything to attract the person(s)
who killed them, other than be prostitues.
If its quite okay wiht you, I will pass up on the chance to
read Cornwell's attempt to pin the murders committed by the so
called 'Jack the ripper' (oh, no, that name isn't a romanticisation
of a murderer at all!) on someone who probably didn't do it. I
don't need people who like to write about 'true crimes' to know
that people like me are just as likely to be murdered as anyone
else. Don't need such people to tell me that.
If you are not willing to read the book then don't make dismissive
comments about it. I think I was very conservative in my reply
to you, I certainly didn't do any namecalling.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Let's stop this right here -- Rahael, 17:08:50
12/22/02 Sun
Because this is getting ridiculous.
1) I have never made the assumption that I am the 'only victim
of crime'.
2) I have read Cornwell's books, and don't like her at all. And
I am a big reader of crime books.
3) As for the 'crime I know nothing about', it has been widely
reported, I did watch the documentary around it and read a lot
of newspapers, because reading all the nationals every morning
is part of my job. Here is one of many numerous links:
"The London art world collectively gasped after she ripped
up one canvas in her hunt for clues - a "monstrously stupid"
action, fumed a leading Sickert expert."
http://www.newsday.com/features/books/ny-bkone3044189dec15,0,1142816.story?coll=ny-bookreview-headlines
Now all this may be false, and Marie pointed out that Cornwell
claims differently, and though my position may be misinformed
(and I'm still not clear about what happened) I wouldn't really
call it ignorance.
4) I will readily admit that i have made a mistake coming on the
board while I've been depressed. It must be instructive that I've
gotten so many negative replies - must say something about my
own posts. I cannot see it of course, because clinical depression
makes it hard. Usual profuse apologies all round if so.
I'll see you guys in the New Year hopefully. Have a good one,
people.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> Re: Let's stop this right here -- Rufus,
18:39:34 12/22/02 Sun
After seeing that woman slash a valuable work of art just to
prove some dubious theory about who Jack the Ripper was.
Rah, your first comments made it appear as though you were either
a witness or knew a witness to that offence. You then asked if
Cornwell had anything to add about the Ripper murders....to which
the only solution to that would be to read the book.
The reason I replied to your post is simple, you were rude to
the person who suggested Cornwells book. Her reasons for suggesting
the book were personal to her and you ignored that. If others
are to care about your feelings then you should make the effort
to be kind yourself that terse reply may have hurt that posters
feelings. Your reply to that person was short, shorter than the
reply I gave to you, and I note you didn't much like what I wrote.
Now, you got any more problems with how I have treated you feel
free to mail me, I'd be pleased to hear from you.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> Fair enough -- Rahael, 09:05:30 12/23/02
Mon
The terseness simply comes from my current uneloquence, not any
intentional insult to Deb. But, effect is what matters, not intent.
Hope you all have everything of the best for this coming new year.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> [> Re: Fair enough -- Rufus,
14:29:29 12/23/02 Mon
The terseness simply comes from my current uneloquence, not
any intentional insult to Deb. But, effect is what matters, not
intent.
I have to admit I was surprised to see your reply because you
usually take so much time to think a post out. I also don't think
you intentionally wanted to hurt anyone.
This time of year can make the pain from our lives seem that much
more unbearable and I see it reflected in some posters on the
different boards I frequent. I post here because I feel that we
have a community that cares about each other, and hope that you
accept an apology from this cranky old fart, who may have gotten
testy with you but never stopped loving who you are...take care
over this Holiday season.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> [> [> Love, Christmas and other sappy
things -- Rahael, 15:47:57 12/23/02 Mon
This morning I got my christmas presents from d'Herblay, and sat
at my desk and just bawled my eyes out with joy. (It was probably
fortunate that my office was empty).
I then replied to him in a very sappy fashion which I asked him
to delete after he read it. But basically, I learnt something
new today. The pain that I have dwelt in recently was simply growing
pains - the fear of death a fear of a metaphorical death, the
death of a painful past. Now it is time to face the future. Time
to face the fact that I can love and be loved without feeling
guilty or feeling as if I was betraying someone dear to my heart.
So it turned out that my uneloquence was simply due to my having
all these new, scary wonderful things to say. And this morning,
I just cried with love and felt a new peace and calm descend on
me. Also, apropos to the sleep thread - going without a night
of sleep? Makes me very mellow, like I'm kinda stoned.
So, no apology needed at all Rufus. There's no anger or resentment
here. I'm facing a Christmas full of love, of all kinds. Love
for those who are absent, love for those around me, and love for
myself.
The future is new and scary and without any of the old certainties.
But I want to find out what lies ahead.
(oh yeah, my eczema better go away now. I've learnt my lesson!
Eff off!)
Happy new year, everyone.
And hugs to you, Ruf
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Love, Christmas and
other sappy things -- Rufus, 16:28:20 12/23/02 Mon
Oh thank you.....I did see that post to d'herb and your reply
btw...:):):)
[> [> Re: No mystical,
but perhaps the most terrifying book I've read -- Rufus, 18:55:08
12/20/02 Fri
Cornwell presents the psychopathic personality, and for a few
pages (with the "definition could fit anyone" of DSM
IV) I became concerned about myself. I put the book down, but
it drew me back to keep reading. Her application of the definition
to the person she believes to have been the Ripper then assured
me that I was quite not-psychopathic, but there for awhile . .
. well let me put it this way. I thought the book was making me
sick, physically, literally. I just knew the book was making me
ill, but this is because it had penetrated my self-concept like
a fine blade, and I had this experience of being laid open, again,
for self scrutiny. Thank God I was just coming down with stomach
flu. Then again . . .
I know some folk who have been involved in murder investigation,
it is something that will live with them for the rest of their
lives. The typical murder I had been used to dealing with had
been the sudden type crime, where there was a fight at closing
time at a bar, a family dispute that spiraled out of control.
People kill for the most ridiculous reasons and they are generally
the easiest type murderers to find.....then you get the types
like JTR, they are different, they are not a metaphor, they are
not like "Hannibal" onscreen with Jodie Foster. These
persons could be someone you live next to, work with, live with.
I haven't read this book yet cause I haven't had the time but
anyone that can explain the difference between the average person
and one who could kill someone then carry on like nothing happened
is doing less harm than someone who makes the serial killer look
attractive. Anyone who questions if they are a sociopath/psychopath
is generally not one, as the real thing could care less. Fiction
is an easy way to deal with killers death as we know that can't
touch us in real life, non-fiction can be threatening because
we know a victim could be someone just like us.
[> [> [> Two very
good posts Rufus, also general statement on individual tastes
-- shadowkat, 09:13:47 12/21/02 Sat
(Along with yours and JM'excellent responses to my query about
sadism and writers in the BotN post I did now in archive 3 - thanks
for these.)
I agree with everything you stated above. Although I doubt I'll
be reading the book - not because it doesn't interest me so much
as a) no time and b) I'm not allowed to buy or read any books
outside of the 100 I haven't read in my own library.
Wanted to add to your posts, this one and the response to Rahael
and KdS above about something that has been nagging at me for
awhile.
I watched Firefly last night - the pilot episode. And btw for
those of you who didn't see it? It was the best pilot of any new
show this season. And far superior to the episode that aired in
it's place in September - The Train Job. It was suspensful, humorous
and multilayered. My mother who watched it with me - stated that
this might have been a show she could have gotten into if: they'd
advertised it better, she could find it, and they started with
the pilot. She wondered if the network execs at Fox hadn't deliberately
set out to kill it. This made me angry, because in between acts
of Firefly were commercials for Fastlane which apparently has
been renewed and Joe Millionaire, the Bachelor, Cops and America's
Most Wanted - shows that I truly can't stand. For a moment or
two I found myself railing at the majority of watchers - are you
morons?
How can you watch such horrible televison? Then I remembered
something - which I learned recently from John Lock - individual
experience life differently from one another. While my mother
and I were watching Firefly for example - my Dad retreated to
the other room to watch French Connection on Bravo. While we watch
Buffy - he prefers to watch CNN. His favorite show is As Time
Goes By - a british situation comedy. He doesn't get my interest
in Buffy. He prefers West Wing. One of my closest friends like
the tv show Xena until it got experimental and did the Bitter
Suite musical - then she dumped it. I loved that episode. She
hated it.
This same close friend recommended American Gods to me recently.
Told me it was the best book she'd read in two years. Her favorite.
Now unlike tv, we usually share the same tastes in books. And
American Gods had been highly recommended by people on this posting
board. It also won the Hugo. And it was written by one of my favorite
comic book writers. So I recommended it to a book club I belong
to and started reading it. I started it in November - it is now
Dec 21, I'm on page 498 and the dang thing seems to be taking
forever. I've read both Sara and Rob's reviews of it and am wondering
why I'm not loving it the way they did.
The main character to me is somewhat of a cipher, his name is
Shadow and he just does not in anyway grip me. I can't care about
him. I also can't visualize him. The story seems to drift from
place to place, briefly describing different gods that immigrants
have brought to this county. For me reading it has felt a bit
like traveling along a long stretch of highway between Kansas
and California. Meandering at small tacky pit stops and diners,
looking at the people, chatting with them briefly and moving on.
It's not until about 480 pages into it that anything majorly dramatic
seems to happen. And it's not until 200 some pages that you learn
much about the main character. It's not that I hate the book -
I don't, I dump books I hate. And I've dumped several this year.
I actually find parts of the book fascinating, and the authors
contemplation of how and why we believe in things in both a historical
and current sense is compelling at times. But the characters just
don't move me. I don't care what happens to them. Something, to
be fair, to my friend, she told me she had the same problem with,
but it didn't bother her. She doesn't have to connect to characters
to enjoy the book. She prefers plot driven novels or non-fiction
to fiction. Character driven books don't turn her on that much.
So not being able to connect to characters in a novel - not a
problem for her. IT is however a problem for me. Hence the reason
that American Gods may not be my favorite book or a book I'd recommend.
Does that mean it's not worth reading? HArdly. It's well-written
and an interesting exploration of American Mythos.
It's just not really my cup of tea.
The same thing can be said about Kds and Deb's feelings for Patricia
Cornwell, an author that I actually do like. She writes well and
her characters grip me. I particularly liked her mystery series
with the female forensic scientist.
I don't understand the need to examine Jack the Ripper - but apparently
other people do. Every five or six years someone comes up with
their own theory. Time After Time - movie with Malcom McDowell
was a sci-fi about HG Wells following JtR in his time machine.
From Hell - which I'm pretty sure is a graphic novel (seen the
graphic novel and read portions of it in comic book stores and
wasn't enthralled - perhaps it's based on a novel? Don't know)
deals with this topic as well. I liked the movie actually. Bit
gruesome in places but also interesting. Now Patricia Cornwell
has done her take on it. Do I believe her evidence?
Do I care? Not really. Serial killers aren't something I spend
much time thinking about. I've met a man that murdered several
people for money so he could buy drugs to support his habit. I
even legally defended him. And I read the court transcripts of
his crime. I've also seen art work done by a serial killer. It's
a bit like Principal Wood says to buffy - once you've come face
to face with it? It's no longer something that fascinates. Serial
killers no longer fascinate me as a topic but I can understand
why they might fascinate someone else. We want to understand the
monster - because if we can understand the monster - maybe it
won't gobble us up like Little Red Riding Hood in the middle of
the dark wood. Investigating the monster, whether he/she be human
or some other creature, makes the monster less terrifying less
overwhelming. Typical human behavior - have a problem? Figure
it out. Apply mathematical formulas and equations - come up with
a solution. I know from interviews I've read by both Thomas Harris
(who wrote the Hannibal Lector books) and Patricia Cornwell -
that their fascination with monsters is partly to figure out what
creates one and how to fight the tendencies in themselves and
how to deal with the monster if and when they have to fight one.
Some of us write and read to exorcise the fears and torments in
our own souls as well as the fears we see around us.
My book recommendations:
Flanders Panel and Seville Communion by Arturo Perez Reverte
The first novel concerns a murder, a painting of a chess game,
the game of chess itself, and three players - an art dealer, an
art restorer, and a young man (who having read the book five years
ago - I can't for the life of me remember the occupation of).
I do remember loving every word of this book. Seville Communion
- is also a mystery.
Obsidian Butterfly by Laurel K. Hamilton (nothing deep, but fun,
and yes it has a serial killer - but the serial killer isn't human,
the monsters are frightening and the protagonist is a vampire
hunter. It's the only book I've really read of the Anita Blake
series - but I couldn't put it down.)
Possession by A.S. Byatt - read the book don't see the movie.
A wonderful satirical account of two scholars uncovering the secret
romance between two poets. The witty satire is subtle and about
literary criticism and scholarship. The book includes a series
of fairy stories written by Byatt.
The Bone People by Keri Hume - a novel about native New Zealanders.
if you can find it - The Perilous Guard by Elizabeth Marie Hope
(been out of print) - about Druids in Wales at the time of Queen
Mary.
His Dark MAterials - by Philip Pullman. A fantasy series that
basically turns the whole battle between heaven and hell upside
down - it's a clever revisionist's view of the story. The heros
are a young girl and boy divided by realities. Wonderful series
of fantasy novels. I think I enjoyed them more than C.S. Lewis'
series.
Sophie's World - A novel about a journey through the history of
Philosphy by Jostein Gaardner
The Ice House by Minette Walters - who writes character driven
as opposed to plot driven mysteries. Her mysteries are as much
who dunnits and why dunnits as opposed to how's. They are not
for the squeamish - very graphic in places.
Man and His Symbols by C.S. Jung and company
Discusses the psychological meanings of visual symbols.
The History of the Unconscious (I think that's the correct title)
by Enrich Neumann. He also did a book on Amor and Psyche.)
I recently picked up Lois Masters Bujold's Cordelia's Honor and
hope to read Ann Prachett's Bel Canto, my father's play Beach
Walk, finish American Gods, a couple of Jungian essays a friend
emailed me, some board posts haven't gotten to yet but printed
off, and work on some of my own writing over the holidays.
SK
[> [> [> [> I'll
start with a cut and paste of a comment I made about Firefly and
work around to books -- Rufus, 01:14:44 12/22/02 Sun
I was out last night and had to wait to watch the tape of the
last Fox aired episode of Firefly. It was the wee hours and I
had a remote that could fast forward past any annoying commercial,
I was ready to go. What I saw what the basis for a wonderful series
that if it had aired in it's rightful place, people would have
understood the show better. CW has already made a more full comment
on the episode as a whole so I'll just start with a quote......
Shepherd (or Book) is looking over ships at the dock, trying to
find the one he will buy passage on. He goes by the Serentiy where
Kaylee is sitting out front with a parasol in her hands watching
the man searching....
Kaylee: You're going to come with us.
Shepherd: Excuse me?
Kaylee: You like ships. You don't seem to be looking at the
destinations. What you care about is the ships. And mines
the nicest.
Shepherd: She don't look like much.
Kaylee: Well, she'll fool ya. Ever sail in a Firefly?
Shepherd: Long before you were crawling. Not and aught three though.
Didn't have the extenders, tends to shake.
Kaylee: So, ah.....how come you don't care where you're going?
Shepherd: Because how you get there is the worthier part.
I think the words out of Shepherd reflect the writers of this
series better than any promotional ad that Fox could have worked
out. The mistake they made with this show is assuming the audience
would complain of slack-jawed ignorants, who would only tune in
to see battles. We are the audience and a literate one, we know
a bit about destinations. I'm holding out some hope that a more
intelligent network who will work with a writer instead of assumtions
can be found to give us what we want. Fox simply has proved that
for Firefly to continue it's journey, they aren't a worthy network
to do that on.
Rant against Firefly is over now.
Now to Patricial Cornwell....I haven't read her books but I think
she isn't like a voyeur who just wants to write about suffering
while never knowing much about the experiences of those who lived
through it. You mentioned one thing.....
It's a bit like Principal Wood says to buffy - once you've
come face to face with it? It's no longer something that fascinates.
Serial killers no longer fascinate me as a topic but I can understand
why they might fascinate someone else. We want to understand the
monster - because if we can understand the monster - maybe it
won't gobble us up like Little Red Riding Hood in the middle of
the dark wood. Investigating the monster, whether he/she be human
or some other creature, makes the monster less terrifying less
overwhelming. Typical human behavior - have a problem? Figure
it out. Apply mathematical formulas and equations - come up with
a solution. I know from interviews I've read by both Thomas Harris
(who wrote the Hannibal Lector books) and Patricia Cornwell -
that their fascination with monsters is partly to figure out
what creates one and how to fight the tendencies in themselves
and how to deal with the monster if and when they have to fight
one. Some of us write and read to exorcise the fears and torments
in our own souls as well as the fears we see around us.
The comment that Principal Wood made to Buffy about evil is the
one thing that makes me think he just may be a good guy after
all......his words and the expression in his face about dealing
directly with evil made me think that evil was not something enjoyable
to him (I could be proved wrong). Talk about an abyss, he has
been sitting over the Hellmouth for months now, I wonder if it
has changed him in ways his past experiences with evil had not?
I have already seen Laurell K. Hamilton mentioned so I will move
onto a series of books by F. Paul Wilson, the Repairman Jack novels,
they started with The Tomb and I recently got The Haunted Air.
I find the character of Jack is one I fancy.....he does what every
once in awhile I'm tempted to, dispense with the uneven justice
system and take that shortcut that I know I never will.....does
it tell people anything about me that my favorite character in
LKH's books is Edward?.....;) Rufus the sweet innocent Canadian
Demon Cat Worshipper.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: I'll start with a cut and paste of a comment I made about
Firefly and work around to books -- shadowkat, 08:47:42
12/22/02 Sun
Hmmm - if it says anything about you that Edward is your favorite
character in LkH's books- it must say the same things about me,
since I deliberately chose as my second book in her series - the
one where he is a major supporting character. For those who haven't
read any of these books?
Edward is a character that is neither good nor evil, he kills
partly out of need and partly out of enjoyment. Obsidian Butterfly
is one of the few genre books I've read that truly explores how
fighting monsters can turn you into one, if you don't watch out.
Each of the protagonists have to deal with this problem and succeed
and/or fail in fascinating ways. Not for the squeamish - graphic
deptictions of violence and gore, but an engrossing read.
Agree with you on Wood. I'm leaning towards Giles being either
a manisfestation or more evil this year than Wood.
Wood seems to me to be similar to the Doctor character in Normal
Again. I see him as a potential guide - which in some ways - if
you watch closely enough he's been in different episodes this
year. Explaining to Buffy in Help how sometimes you just do the
best you can and being there for people is enough. Or by hiring
her - gives her a means of helping the students and her sister.
I find the writers decision to give Buffy a non-violent job -
as guidance counselor over the more obvious jobs of physical fitness
intructor or personal defense instructor - interesting. Just as
I find Wood the most interesting Principal on the show and oddly
enough the most adult and seemingly stable character we've seen
to date. It's possible it's all a mislead...of course. But my
hunch is you're right - he's not evil. And it is possible that
he's seen greater and perhaps truer evil than what lies beneath
the school.
Also agree on Firefly. I think this is true for all Whedon's shows
- the ME writers are more interested in the journey than the destination...which
I also find more interesting. Somewhat disappointed in Fox, I'd
hoped the network had decided to try a few more intelligent shows.
Perhaps UPN or Sci-Fi will pick it up. If not, I'll really miss
it - it annoys me that just as I was beginning to really really
like the show...it ends.
Oh on Cornwell - I've read about five to six of her Kay Scarpetta
series - first is Post-Mortem. And I can say with confidence -
she is NOT a voyeur, so your instincts are correct. She writes
her books more as a means of fighting monsters via an examination
of them, than to glorify them.
And no where in any of her books are monsters romanticized or
glorified. I actually prefer her to Harris.
Thanks for book rec's - haven't heard of those.
SK (Fellow demon cat worshiper, albeit not Canadian ;-))
[> [> I'm really sorry
that some people seem to be fixated on the Ripper murder themselves.
-- Deb, 16:59:52 12/22/02 Sun
Because this book really is not about the murders, though we learn
about the women who were murdered. They are presented as persons,
as humans. (and there is the description of the murders that is
given to examine how the murderer, possibly believed and felt.)
We are introduced to the man Cornwell believes was the Ripper,
though twice in the book she confesses that she has had her doubts
also (i.e. it was possibly a policeman or a woman)
In no way whatsoever does the author excuse or rationalize the
murders. She presents an argument, not only concerning JtR, but
an argument about modern Western society.
For me, this book presented a viewpoint of the society that, at
least I live in, in which the lowest class is invisible and single
mothers must have done something terrible to be in the situations
they are in. Does something terrible have to happen before people
begin to wake up from their *American Dreams* and begin to see
the world more realistically?
Another thing this book did for me, personally, was it helped
me release any cares or concerns regarding the outcome of Buffy,
specifically Spike's past, present and future. (I was looking
at the TV listing and saw the on Xmas Eve there will be two Buffy's,
then I remembered I will be totally tied up with family. My reaction
was: 'Oh well, they are just reruns anyway.' Plus, I signed up
for a Tuesday night class next semester!)
This book facilitated an opportunity to take a good look at my
"shadow" side. If I were a vampire (how old am I?) I
could be extraordinary cruel. If there was nothing to balance
my worst attributes and impulses, I wouldn't just kill to feed.
I'd be into a good deal of psychological manipulation and torture.
I'd find the most solid, God-fearing people, and I would spend
however long it would take, years if need be, to beat them down.
Or, better yet, I'd lure someone in until they trusted me completely,
and just when that trust would be most needed, I'd laugh in their
face and let them face their fate alone. I know this is what I'd
be like, because these are the most horrible things I can imagine.
If I could raise an army to follow me, I'd do it. The more the
merrier. I wouldn't kill "good" people either, only
the already perverse. I'd vamp all the "good", because
that would be so terribly cruel, and ironically funny.
But, it really takes someone who hates themselves to do these
things, and I don't hate myself and I don't hate anyone else.
So, unless there is a virus that kills everything inside a person
except hate, I am confident that I will never relish harming anyone,
intentionally or not.
That said, I feel more at peace with my world, which does not
mean I'm blind to that which is frightening, sad, cruel, vile,
or just plain ignorant. I'm sorry if my review of this book stirred
up thoughts of obsession, anger or comparisions with just plain
bad fiction, but I can't do anything about that can I?
One thing I don't quite understand: For those who say this book
and topic just invite views, or memories, of murder, cruelty,
"victims," and has no redeeming purpose -- Why do you
watch Buffy and/or Angel? You can see metaphors for life there,
but you don't believe that life itself can present metaphors?
(Even if all the facts of "life" are not necessairily
"truth" -- whatever that is.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Dochawk, 18:18:09 12/19/02 Thu
if you are a fan of Tolkien the first high fantasy I would recommend
is the Fionavar Tapestry by guy Gavriel Kay. He learned his chops
as a ghost writer on The Silmarillion. its a fabulous read and
has the same kind of mythology (though not as detailed) as Tolkein.
I would also suggest Patricia McKillop, specifically The Riddle
Master of Hed series which won a World Fantasy Award a few years
back. Its fabulous and has a wonderful use of language.
Have fun
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- Isabel, 22:16:55 12/19/02
Thu
The Fionavar Tapestry is on my "To Read" list.
I have read GG Kay's Tigana which I couldn't put down.
Another set of books that are terrific are the Adventures of Master
Li and Number Ten Ox by Barry Hughart. They're set in a magical,
ancient China. The titles are The Bridge of Birds, The Story
of the Stone, and The Eight Skilled Gentlemen.
If you like mysteries that are magical I suggest Randall Garrett's
Lord Darcy Investigates.
[> [> [> Loved Bridge
of Birds!! -- ponygirl, 08:22:09 12/20/02 Fri
... not as crazy about the sequels, but Bridge is one of those
books that I can wholeheartedly reccommend to anyone, even people
who don't normally dig the fantasy genre. Funny, fast-paced, and
quite touching.
[> [> [> [> Re:
Loved Bridge of Birds!! -- Isabel, 06:01:18 12/22/02 Sun
Guess which book I started re-reading after I wrote my recommendation?
I spotted Bridge of Birds on my bookshelf and just had
to read it again.
:-)
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- aliera, 10:24:45 12/20/02
Fri
The Locus Interview
Guy Gavriel Kay, born November 7, 1954 in Canada, received a B.A.
in philosophy in 1975, then trained to be a lawyer, receiving
an LL..B. in 1978. He worked in the í70s as an assistant
to J.R.R. Tolkienís son and literary executor Christopher
Tolkien, preparing The Silmarillion for publication. While working
on CBC radio series The Scales of Justice from 1982 to 1989, his
fantasy novels began to appear. The first three -- The Summer
Tree (1984), The Wandering Fire (1986), and The Darkest Road (1986)
-- make up "The Fionavar Tapestry", a trilogy whose
deliberately Tolkienesque elements donít preclude originality,
as contemporary characters find their own archetypal qualities
in a fantasy world. Next came Tigana (1990), which he has described
as "historical fiction set in an invented world," which
resembles Renaissance Italy. A Song for Arbonne (1992) takes place
in the same world (recognizable by its two moons), but is set
earlier, in a time similar to Europe before the Renaissance when
the Courts of Love ruled, while The Lions of Al-Rassan (1995)
moves back further to the equivalent of Spain under the rule of
the Moors.
(ALIERA INSET...I strongly recommend these last two)
Kayís latest work, duology "The Sarantine Mosaic"
- Sailing to Sarantium (1998) and Lord of Emperors (2000) - reaches
even deeper into alternate history to invoke his version of Byzantium
under the rule of Justinian and Theodora, its magics influenced
by the writings of Yeats.
"Iíve always instinctively felt that the demarcation
line between genres has to do with science fiction being extroverted
and forward-looking, and fantasy being introverted and backward-looking.
By ëintroverted,í I donít mean shy; I mean
looking inward to the psychological elements of what we do. Fantasy
is backward-looking in the sense of examining myths, roots, legends,
sources, origins. Not ëbackwardsí as in reactionary,
but looking back to when we were afraid of the dark, and why,
to the formation of the myths and legends by which we attempted
to explain the workings of our world.
"Fantasy, as perceived, tends to be under-explored, both
by its practitioners and by its readers. Itís capable of
doing and being significantly more. Readers of fantasy tend to
have certain expectations imprinted upon them. Thatís one
reason why fantasy has somewhat less intellectual credibility
than science fiction. Fantasyís commercial scope is greater;
therefore the commercial implications come down more heavily upon
it. But because fantasy can succeed so much more, thereís
an aspect of the genre that factors in commercial numbers to a
greater degree than science fiction does.
"What Iíve been specifically interested in is how
the examination of themes and trends, moments in history, can
be intensified by dealing with them through fantasy. Not softened,
not fudged, but sharpened. One way is kind of obvious. You can
telescope events. The actual Christian reconquest of Moorish Spain
took almost 400 years. In The Lions of Al-Rassan, I examine what
I see as some of the underlying themes of the holy war that took
place in Muslim and Christian Spain, and focus it down to two
generations, while keeping (I hope) a significant perception of
what was moving through that period. One of the reasons I always
give the historical sources in the acknowledgments is because
one of my most common sorts of letters will be people saying,
ëWhere can I read more about this?í
"Another thing fantasy lets you do is open up a useful doubt
in a readerís mind about what happens next. If anyone writes
a novel about Queen Elizabeth and the Spanish Armada, you know
what happened. The novel can be brilliant, consuming, exquisitely
crafted - one of my favorite historicals of all time, Death of
the Fox by American writer George Garrett, about Sir Walter Raleigh,
is a dazzling book. But as a storyteller, which remains one of
my principal drives, I love the idea that because Iíve
served notice to you that my setting is not Byzantium in Sailing
to Sarantium - itís a fantasy on themes of Byzantium -
even though you know Justinian and Theodora and Count Belisarius,
you still canít know where my storyís going. Iím
reserving to myself the right, the responsibility, to let the
history unfold as what I see the story is demanding.
"I love that framing device that fantasy gives to put the
reader into a receptive mode for a story that is about something
important. These myths and legends matter. This is why we need
to crusade against the trivialization of the genre. Today what
weíre losing, in the minutiae of figuring out magic systems
and things like that, is the significance, and the potential significance,
of the genre. Thatís one of the things I want to hang onto.
*
"When I go to Poland or Croatia, on tour for my publishers
there, the single most common recurring question is, ëWere
you writing about us?í When I toured for Tigana, which
is about oppression and the eradication of a culture, the importance
of naming and language to identity, they stood up in Zagreb, Warsaw,
and Cracow, and asked me, ëWere you writing about us?í
I was deeply moved and touched, because I was and I wasnít.
I was writing about all such scenarios.
"These readers in Europe, Eastern Europe especially, were
used to seeing fantasy and science fiction as important, as cloaking
devices for writers who could not write directly about their society
because of censors. And the readers instinctively knew how to
decode and apply. In North America, weíve had it so easy
by comparison, and the histories of the genres in popular culture
functioned so differently, weíre not even used to looking
beyond the exciting narrative. In pop culture terms, we need to
be guided or alerted, given a signpost that fantasy or science
fiction can be more than just something to read before you go
to bed at night, on the beach on a holiday, or on the subway.
And of course they can!"
Hope you guys don't mind me posting this... he's a real favorite
and McKillip is another.
best wishes...aliera
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Sophie, 18:31:49 12/19/02 Thu
Hmmmm...currently reading anything and everything by Nicholas
Freeling. He writes mystery/suspense books that delve into people
- their relationships, emotions, etc - I mean, really digs into
this stuff. If you enjoyed the "darkness" theme of Buffy
last season, you might enjoy Freeling.
I re-read the LOTR Trilogy last Xmas break - I enjoyed it so much!
I thoroughly enjoyed Dorothy Sayers' books (the murder mystery
ones) for light amusement. Unfortunately, she died and there are
only 12 and no more forthcoming. *sniff*
Scary stuff - anything by Wilkie Collins and Sheridan Le Fanu
(who I am blaming for my worst ever nightmare).
Sophie
[> Re: Book Recommends...
-- Silky, 18:48:02 12/19/02 Thu
Joan D. Vinge - CatsPaw, Psion, can't remeber the third book (it's
a trilogy).
And her Snow Queen, World's End, Summer Queen trilogy.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- d'Herblay, 22:37:30 12/19/02 Thu
If you're a Tolkein fan, I think this board would be remiss if
it did not recommend to you the explosive new paperback Myth
& Middle-Earth, by this board's very own Leslie Jones.
(I'll be picking it up myself some time very soon after I see
The Two Towers.)
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- leslie,
18:03:30 12/23/02 Mon
Thanks for the recommendation! In turn, I highly recommend just
about anything by Tim Powers, but especially Last Call, Expiration
Date, adn Earthquake Weather--three interlinked books that revolve
around the general concept of the Fisher King.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Arya_Stark, 00:15:32 12/20/02 Fri
Delurking here to recommend a very good series that you might
like. I am absolutley in love with the A Song of Fire and Ice
series by George R. R. Martin. The books are A Game of Thrones,
A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords. Great writing,
story, characters, and all sorts of unexpected things happening.
Right now I'm finishing up the latest Dune book. Brian Herbert
and Kevin J Anderson are doing several prequels to the series.
The story isn't quite as interesting as the Frank Herbert stories,
but they are much easier to read and I've been enjoying them greatly.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Mystery, 06:50:11 12/20/02 Fri
One of my back in the day favorite magickal/legendary books is
"The White Raven" by Diana L. Paxton. It's a retelling
of the Tristan and Iseult legend (Arthurian). I randomly picked
up this book at a second hand book store and from there, it triggered
me into Arthurian legend, and Celtic mythology.
I wholeheartedly second "The American Gods" by Neil
Gaiman, and at the same time I encourage "Neverwhere"
also by Gaiman. *sigh* I hope they can get Gaiman to guest write
for "Ripper" should the series actually go through.
For Sci-Fi, I would recommend William Gibson, in particular, "Burning
Chrome" (a compilation of short stories, including Johnny
Mneumonic) and "Neuromancer" (starring my favorite cyber-punk
badass, Molly Millions, who was also in the short story "Johnny
Mneumonic" but they mangled her and turned her into "Jane"
in the movie. They didn't even bother to get the visuals on her
right...grrr).
Speaking of Jane, Orson Scott Card's "Ender" series
is amazing too. The first "Ender's Game" can be a stand-alone
and is just, awesome...The rest of the series "Speaker for
the Dead," "Xenocide," and "Children of the
Mind" are really interconnected, so if you read one, you
have to read the others to get a resolution BUT the 2nd-4th books
have a focus on one of the best character ever created, "Jane"
which I describe as the bastard child of Hal and the Internet
who was able to evolve emotions too. Also part of the "Ender"
series is the the "Shadow" spin-offs, it takes characters
from the first book who all but disappear in "Speaker"
"Xenocide" and "Children" and tell the story
of how they became historical figures while Ender was space travelling.
Card's space/time travel model is complex. It's the whole the
closer you get to the speed of light, time slows down. so if a
person is travelling 50 light years, 50 years will pass for those
not travelling, while maybe a few weeks pass for them. Card also
wrote some other great books, "The Worthing Saga" (which
is a group of short stories, that are all interlinked), "Folk
of the Fringe" (post-apocalyptic mormons merging with the
remants of the Mayan race), "Pastwatch: The Redemption of
Christopher Columbus" (basically people figure out how to
time travel, and go back in time to prevent their bleak future.
The key moment is the slaughter of the Caribe tribes by the crew
of Christopher Columbus), "Enchantment" (Sleeping Beauty
meets Russian Folklore), and "Homebody" (the story of
a guy who moves into an enchanted/haunted house). Those are only
the ones I read. There are lot more. Since he's a mormon, alot
of his right is very religious/ethical, BUT he's also obviously
a scholar of world religions and mythlogy/folklore as he included
a lot of those element in them. He's very good about not shoving
religion down your throat, but it's very obviously religion is
a huge part of his life. www.hatrack.com is his official web site.
An AMAZING writer for fantasy is Storm Constantine. She's a little
dark, and seems to like to break lots of taboos, but she does
it in such a way that while it's shocking and maybe for you and
people you know it would be wrong, you understand why the characters
act certain ways. So far I've read two out of three of her series:
the Wreaththru Trilogy ("The Enchantments of Flesh and Spirit",
"The Bewitchments of Love and Hate", and "The Fulfillments
of Fate and Desire") and the Magravandias Chronicles ("The
Sea Dragon Heir", "The Crown of Silence" and "The
Way of Light"). I haven't read the last of the Magravandias,
yet, but the first two were amazing. And the Wreaththru series
is just amazing. Take equal parts Anne Rice (the Wreaththru race
is vaguely vampiric) and Robert Jordan (the whole epic that is
somewhat in homage to Tolkien) then put it in a post-apocalyptic
setting. She also writes non-fictional mysticism books and is
currently developing a tarot deck with character from the Wreaththru
series. Her web page is http://members.aol.com/Malaktawus/Storm.htm.
And for sci-fi, never discount Issac Asimov. His dialogue and
character development is not the best but his vision of his universes
are amazing. If you are going to get into any kind of robot-android
sci-fi, you MUST start with "I, Robot" (my favorite
short story in that compilation is "Liar") basically
everyone who has written about robots since him have either used
Asimov's laws of robotic, or all but blantantly state their robots
defy them. There are of course a few characters that Asimov did
make that i'm impressed by Det. Elijah Bailey and R. Daneel Olivaw,
who are the stars of "Caves of Steel," "The Naked
Sun" and "Robots of Dawn." R. Daneel (a robot)
makes appearences in other Asimov books as well and from what
I understand, the inspiration for "Data" on "Star
Trek: TNG"
And finally, I also recommend the Shadow War series by Chris Claremont
and George Lucas. It's the continuation of "Willow"
(think of "Willow" as "The Hobbit" and the
Shadow War series as the lord of the rings). "Shadow Moon"
"Shadow Dawn" and "Shadow Star" follow the
adventures of Elora Danan, the baby in Willow, now all grown up
and ready to fulfill her destiny. I'm still in the middle of book
two with book 3 already bought and waiting to be read, and so
far, I'm really impressed.
Ok that's enough out of me...
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- luna, 06:55:48 12/20/02
Fri
Neverwhere is Excellent!
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- luna, 06:53:22 12/20/02 Fri
Anything by Sean Stewart, esp. Galveston--most of his books are
set in a time when magic (the scary veiny kind) has reappeared
and is taking over the earth--a few enclaves of non-magic remain.
Sort of the opposite of Harry Potter, but written for adults and
very dark.
The His Dark Materials trilogy, by Phillip Pullman--starts with
The Golden Compass (perhaps originally written for young readers,
but like Tolkien, very interesting to adults)
Gene Wolfe's books--all are strange and wonderful
Some one who really knows good books just recommend Vernor Vinge--more
hard science fiction than fantasy
[> Ooo, I love book recs!!!
Thanks all! Now, to the bookstore!!! -- Sarand, 07:38:18
12/20/02 Fri
and just in time for Xmas.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- ponygirl, 08:49:19 12/20/02 Fri
It's not technically a fantasy or sci-fi but I heartily recommend
Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay. I'm
finishing the book this weekend and it's been a fabulous read.
It's set during the Golden Age of comic books and written with
a real love for an often ignored or derided genre, something I'm
sure we can all appreciate!
I'm actually heading home for the holidays with a ton of board-related
reading: ML von Franz, Alan Watts' The Way of Zen, plus a reread
of Neverwhere with an eye to BtVS comparisons. Those along with
a few others will hopefully stave off the inevitable stuck at
home with nothing to do but eat feeling that always sets in when
I head to my parents'.
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- Mystery, 08:58:28 12/20/02
Fri
OOOO! Picture if you will Xander Harris cast as Richard Mayhew!
hehe.
[> Since no one's mentioned
this author yet... -- Rob, 09:49:59 12/20/02 Fri
...CHARLES DE LINT! He is one of my favorite fantasy authors.
He specializes in urban fantasy, blending a modern city environment
with ancient magical figures, like fairies and spirits. But they're
not sweet and nice fairies. They are mean, primal-force type creatures.
He is brilliant at mixing the two genres.
His best book is "The Little Country," about a girl
who discovers a magical book that changes its story to suit its
reader. In other words, whoever reads the book reads a different
story. And the story is never the same twice. At a different point
in your life, you can pick it up and it would be completely different.
The book alternates chapters between the "real life"
story and chapters from the book that the characters are reading.
A truly brilliant, fully absorbing book.
Other great ones of his are "Jack the Giant Killer,"
which is a modern update of the old English fairy tale, except
Jack is a punk girl from the mid-eighties, "Memory and Dream,"
about a female painter whose remarkable, fantastical paintings
come to life.
Highly recommended for the fantasy fan who likes something a little
bit different than the standard swords and sorcery-type epics.
I would also like to give another plug to Neil Gaiman. "American
Gods" is one of the best books I have ever read.
Rob
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Caroline, 11:01:33 12/20/02 Fri
Not really sci-fi but kinda mystical - two books I've read recently
that I really enjoyed: The Dream of Scipio by Iain Pears and Perfume
by Patrick Susskind. I stayed up long into the night reading both
because I couldn't put them down.
[> Fantasy worlds --
Tchaikovsky, 12:35:27 12/20/02 Fri
For the Tolkien/Buffy thing, one of the best complements from
slightly older fiction than is generally mentioned is Mervyn Peake's
'Gormenghast' Trilogy. The first two books in particular, play
out life in a vast, crazy ritualistic castle. Characters at first
appear to be cariacatures, but are later fleshed out- so that
their distinguishing features become almost amusing irrelevancies.
The startling backdrop of the Byzantine castle is beautifully
visual for a long, involved narrative. Don't expect to gallop
through it. The trilogy is 900 pages of tiny writing in my tome,
but worth every minute.
With Tolkien's Arda and the Buffyverse, one of the very finest
creations of a fantasy world in any medium, although I think it
does lag a bit in the third movement, where Peake is making up
another world, and has lost the intimacy of space of the castle.
But the first two are cracking.
You have a bookshelf of recommendations now! Really shouldn't
have dropped that penny in the water.
TCH
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Slaine, 12:58:41 12/20/02 Fri
Two of my favorite books
The Hero and the Crown by Robin McKinley. I must have read it
15 times.
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld by Patricia McKillip
Several folks have menioned Neil Gaiman's American Gods. I'm about
halfway through it and it's the most engrossing thing I've read
in ages.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Chris, 14:09:34 12/20/02 Fri
Based on board recommendation, I picked up and am in the fourth
of the six volume "Lymond Chronicles" by Dorothy Dunnett.
This historical series is simply amazing. Thanks to the original
recommender and, please, if you haven't tasted these fruits, treat
yourself to a wonderful new year lost in the world of Lymond.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- BunnyK., 16:11:48 12/20/02 Fri
I'm such a bookworm, I hardly know where to start when asked for
recommendations. However, I'll try to refrain from listing my
bookcases to you. =)
I've been on a Terry Pratchett kick lately. His books are funny
yet never superficial. I don't think I've found one of his books
yet that I have not enjoyed. I'd also recommend Connie Willis,
IMO one of the best sci-fi writers around. I'd especially recommend
the Doomsday Book and any of her short story collections. On the
other hand, if you're looking for non-fiction, Seabiscuit by Laura
Hillenbrand is a super autobiography of a horse. No one interested
in horse racing or the Depression in America should miss this
book. Well, that's probably enough for now. Hope you enjoy if
you get a chance to read any of them!
[> [> Re: not buffy/angel
related: Book Recommends... -- genivive, 16:52:36 12/20/02
Fri
Another lurker popping up. How about Laurell Hamilton's Anita
Blake, Vampire Hunter series? Maybe not great literature but they
are a lot of fun
[> [> [> Absolutely!
One of my great Guilty Pleasures ;-) -- aliera, 17:06:05
12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> Now you're
talking.....Vampires, Werewolves, Witches, blood, guts, and even
goats. -- Rufus, 03:23:24 12/21/02 Sat
Cerulean Sins, March 31/03...can't wait.
[> [> [> [> But
the real question is... -- aliera, 04:21:53 12/21/02 Sat
JC or Richard?...or where can I get a wereleopard for Christmas?
;-)
PS OT to Rufus...do you remember early season you did a post or
two regarding gnosticism? The reason I'm asking is because I came
across an essay last night on G and Jung and the roots of G and
alchemy which I was wondering if you'd be interested in.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: But the real question is... -- Tyreseus, 15:08:16
12/21/02 Sat
I'm still waiting for Richard to just get over his moral stuff
and start the all-out orgy. Almost happened last time. But then,
I'm a Jean-Claude/Richard shipper. ;-)
If I see a sale on the wereleapards, perhaps we could share a
pard?
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Purfect...and further OT -- aliera, 06:42:04 12/22/02
Sun
I must not be an alpha because I'm going to say Yes!
That makes me have to ask...what do you hing of the new guy?
For real or potential little bad?
[> [> [> [> [>
Oh goody........I sure would be interested.......email enclosed
-- Rufus, 18:25:53
12/21/02 Sat
Thank you in advance.
[> [> [> [> Re:
Laurell Hamilton's Anita Blake Series -- Brian, 06:44:39
12/23/02 Mon
Try reading them in the order they were written. Hamilton's literary
ability gets better with each novel. Her first is Guilty Pleasures.
[> Finally thought of a
recommendation for you... -- KdS, 15:21:39 12/21/02 Sat
If it's been published in Canada, there's an absolutely marvellous
book by a guy called China Mieville entitled Perdido Street
Station. Managed to win both the major British SF and fantasy
awards.
Don't want to give too much of the plot away, but it's fantasy
done with hard SF-style world and species design - the guy actually
made a serious attempt to produce imaginary cultures instead of
going for the same old romanticised medieval Europe. It's quite
reminiscent of Peake in writing style, but with an almost cyberpunkish
social attitude - definitely urban rather than pastoral. He's
since produced a second book, The Scar, set in the same
universe but in a different place in it.
Also, and I hope you aren't offended, I think everyone who considers
themselves a fan of fantasy should read Diana Wynne Jones's The
Tough Guide to Fantasyland, which is a hilariously venomous
encyclopaedia of the cliches of post-Tolkein genre fantasy. Read
it and weep (with laughter).
[> [> Re: Finally thought
of a recommendation for you... -- matching mole, 18:00:50
12/21/02 Sat
I think I heard this recommended elsewhere (Perdido Street Station)
- will definitely see if I can track it down.
Quite a number of my favourites have been mentioned above (Peake,
Dick, Pratchett, Wolfe etc.) but I thought I would add a few more.
Fantasy -
Lord Dunsany is a pre-Tolkien fantasist, probably a bit old-fashioned
for many tastes but his work is full dry humour and a genuine
sense of exotic wonder.
Peter S. Beagle - The modern Dunsany.
The Marrow of the World - forget the name of the (Canadian) author.
A marvelous young-adult fantasy that gave me quite a chill when
I was young. Long out of print but probably in your library (especially
in Canada).
Two recent sf novels I read deserve recommendation.
Mount - Carol Emshwiller. Stylistically reminscent of 1950s-60s
post-apocalyptic British sf (e.g. John Wyndham, John Christopher),
Mount is a fascinating consideration of colonialism, domestication,
friendship, and the relationship between parents and children
(among other things).
Angry Young Spaceman - Jim Munroe. SF cliches of the 1930s meet
the social and political concerns of the 21st century. Jet packs,
robo-men, and octopoid aliens populate a universe awash in jaded
cultural elites, concerns of linguistic imperialism, and corporate
manipulation of youthful rebellion.
[> [> [> To Mole
-- KdS, 06:19:12 12/23/02 Mon
If you share Robert Wyatt's politics, and admire novels dealing
with "jaded cultural elites, concerns of linguistic imperialism,
and corporate manipulation of youthful rebellion", I think
I can safely say that you will like Mieville.
:-)
[> [> [> [> Thanks
-- matching mole, 11:27:25 12/23/02 Mon
I would say that I share Wyatt's politics in a general sense although
a lot of his most overtly political material seems a lot more
rigid than I see myself. I much prefer his material from the 60s,
70s, and 90s than the 1980s material like 'Nothing Can Stop Us'.
I mostly picked my board name because I thought it was one of
the coolest off-beat band names ever (and because it was so obscure
that I thought no one would recognize it - guess I was wrong).
I will definitely look into Mieville. Thanks again for the recommendation.
[> Our Furry Friends
-- Rufus, 19:16:59 12/21/02 Sat
I was sorry to hear about your kitty. My cat died last year and
I was relieved to see the end of his suffering but after 18 years
I couldnt' believe he was gone.
I got Leo in the early 80's, he was a ginger tabby, true ginger,
not the washed out yellow some cats can be. He had orange eyes
with flecks of gold.....he was tiny but ruled over all the other
cats. I had a time in my life where I was for health reasons cut
off from the world. At a time when I was so alone, Leo was there,
and he didn't care what I looked like or felt like. He was with
me through the years, I may have been alone but Leo made sure
I was never lonely.
This September was the year since he died...for a Christmas gift
a friend got me a tree ornament....an Orange Tabby with wings.
[> I'm surprised nobody's
recommended... -- r.
phillips, 20:18:23 12/21/02 Sat
Lois McMaster Bujold writes good character-driven sci-fi and fantasy
(she's won several awards). Her 'Vorkosigan' series is a lot of
fun, but serious too, and I really enjoyed her recent fantasy
'The Curse of Chalion'. You can check out some exerpts from her
books at the Baen free library at http://www.baen.com/ and on
the Bujold Nexus at http://www.dendarii.com/
David Weber is another author I enjoy for his 'Honor Harrington'
series. Characterization is a bit flat for the more minor characters;
but plotting and hardware are very good. The first couple of books
in the series are available for free download at the Baen free
library too.
Other favorites are: the 'Daughter of the Empire' books by Raymond
Feist and Janny Wurtz, Neal Stephenson's novels, and Charles Williams'
novels. Now that I think of it, you may want to look into Charles
Williams; he was a very close friend of J. R. R. Tolkien, Dorothy
Sayers, and C. S. Lewis. His novels have been described as 'supernatural
thrillers', and they're kind of weird. For example: in 'The Place
of the Lion' Plato's logical forms somehow get loose and start
running around the English countryside. His style is sort of old-fashioned
now, and not everybody's cup of tea, but I still like them.
[> Seconding, thirding and
a couple new -- Haecceity, 00:24:29 12/22/02 Sun
Welcome to the board! Seems you've stirred the obsessions of our
little group, here. Like Cusack says in High Fidelity, your taste
in music, movies, books, tv is important, lets you know who people
are.
As for myself, I've got to stand with the Guy Gavriel Kay contingent,
as his books never fail to make me think *and* cry, a rare combination.
Also with the Gaiman recs, as the man turns a phrase inside out
upside down and into a thought that might stick with you forever.
If you like your metaphysics with a side of funny (or vice versa),
can't recommend Terry Pratchett too heartily, and Harlan Ellison's
the original Mr. Snarkfest--though I prefer his essays to his
stories, myself.
Someone no one seems to have mentioned is Tad Williams. His Memory,
Sorrow, Thorn Trilogy is one of my absolute faves--Starts with
The Dragonbone Chair, then Stone of Farewell and To Green Angel
Tower (which was a single volume in HC, but broken into 2 substantial
volumes for PB). I remember when they first came out having to
wait 2-3 years between books--torture as they always seemed to
end cliffside--I envy anyone who can now buy the whole set and
read it for the first time one after another---perfect for those
interminable international flights! Oh, and there's one of those
infamous shadow cats in the first one, SK.
As much as I love these, don't care so much for his later 4-parter
which is much more cyber-fic (you know, great premise, rambling
execution, kind of a chore to get through)
Thanks for a great thread, and everyone for their recs--but can't
buy any more books till I get moved into the dorm. As it is I'm
taking more books than clothes!
---Haecceity
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Celebaelin, 01:17:33 12/22/02 Sun
In case you haven't read it (and because it cropped up in conversation
in the pub) H. G. Wells - The War of the Worlds (quick read),
also Julian May - The Saga of the Many Coloured Land, this second
one is 5 books for a total of 1800 pages, great plot that I couln't
stop reading but in fairness the last time I tried to re-read
it I found that it was the plot that made it worth reading, so
I'm not going to tell you what happens!
Oh, and anything, or maybe everything, in the Discworld Series
by Terry Pratchett, except perhaps Lords and Ladies, unless you
like scary elves (that's *scary elves* not *Carey Elwes* of Robin
Hood, Men in Tights, The Princess Bride, Bram Stokers Dracula
etc).
[> [> Love H.G.Wells
- Excellent Suggestion and... -- Sara, just loving this thread!,
20:30:50 12/22/02 Sun
don't forget the C.S. Lewis trilogy "That Hideous Strength",
"Perelandra" and "Out of the Silent Planet"
(not necessarily in that order!), just lovely books. Also "The
Great Divorce" by Lewis is just such a cool concept that
it's a ton of fun. And while I'm typing here, let me tell you
I'm almost finished with "The Man in the High Castle"
by Philip K. Dick and it's just amazing!!!! I just love the way
he messes with reality. I know I've already recommended this,
but it is just such a good book I have to recommend it again.
(And maybe more after this if anyone gives me half a chance!)
- Sara, who like shadowkat, has waaay too many books on her to-read
list, and yet unlike sk, can't seem to control her addiction to
getting more...hey Darbs, can ya' build me a new bookshelf, soon,
real soon!!
[> [> [> Back to Dick
. . . -- d'Herblay, 21:44:24 12/22/02 Sun
I'd like to take this opportunity to extend a welcome to you,
Sara, to the tribe of Philip K. Dick fans. I recall the times
(before the Vintage reissue series and Total Recall) when
we were a rare breed. Now, we are legion! I can still remember
one of my friends listening to my extollations of Dick's virtues
and responding, "You just like him because he's named Dick."
(Yes, I was friends with Beavis. He's a doctor now. Do remember
to lipstick "left" and "right" on the appropriate
sides of your body before going in for surgery.) On the other
hand, it's probably better that we are a nameless bunch -- once,
in Manhattan's Murder Ink, one of the clerks and I were discussing
the upcoming release by Lawrence Block, and she said, "You're
a real Blockhead, aren't you." I replied, "I don't like
that construction, as my favorite Science Fiction writer is Philip
K. Dick, and by analogy . . . "
If we're going to be talking Philip K. Dick, I must recommend
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, a serious contender
for my favorite novel of all. Rahael will warn you that it is
chilling enough that you should read it only in sunlight, but
I tend to see more humaneness in the titular villain, perhaps
because I keep finding times when I've read the world with artificial
eyes and have spoken through stainless-steel fangs.
I also highly recommend Ubik and A Scanner Darkly,
for their reality/identity playfulness, and the neglected Galactic
Pot-Healer, which I find to be Dick's sweetest and most bittersweet
novel.
[> [> [> [> Looks
like more books for Sara! -- Sara, who loves to feed her addiction,
08:10:01 12/23/02 Mon
I finished "The Man in the High Castle" last night,
and the final I-Ching answer just took my breath away!
[> [> [> [> Good
choices -- matching mole, 11:31:55 12/23/02 Mon
Your favourites are also mine, although I have never read Galactic
Pot-Healer. I'm also fond of 'The Transmigration of Timothy Archer'
(at least that's the approximate title), the last novel he completed
before his death.
Most of my PKD reading was done in the late 70s and early 80s
so I am definitely ready for some rereading.
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- Millan, 03:08:50 12/23/02 Mon
A short list of my favourite authors (some has already been mentioned
above):
Louis McMaster Bujold: All books about Miles Vorkosigan
Sharon Lee and Steve Miller: All their books are in the Liaden
Universe. (They might be difficult to get a hold on.) Should be
read in order.
Barbara Hambly: Book one and two of 'Sun-Cross' and the series
of Darwath
Robin Hobb: The Farseer trilogy
C.S. Friedman: The Coldfire trilogy
Julian May: The Saga of Pliocene Exile
Neal Stephenson: Snowcrash
C.J. Cherry: The trilogy of Cyteen
Terry Pratchett: The Discworld books
Victor Mil·n: The Cybernetic Samurai
Feist and Wurst: The Empire series (Not sure if that's the series'
name, I don't have them near me ATM. They are: 'Daughter of the
Empire', 'Mistress of the Empire' and one more.)
And for light reading, just to bring the topic back to vampires,
werewolves and their like:
Laurel Hamilton: The series of Anita Blake, vampire hunter.
Nancy A. Collins: Sunglasses after dark, In the blood, etc
/Millan
"I like books... I just don't want to take on too much. Do
they have an introduction to the modern blurb?"
- Buffy, The Freshman
[> Re: not buffy/angel related:
Book Recommends... -- fresne, 12:16:53 12/24/02 Tue
Books to recommend, my top books keep changing. Iíd agree
with most of the ones already recommended (especially Bujold)
those that Iíve read, and some Iíll be going out
to pick up before heading to the maternal rental unitís
place after work.
I feel somewhat prepared to recommend a planet of books. However,
about five months ago my housemate and I got caught in traffic
and thus played the top ten
books at the time game.
For one that I havenít seen recommended yet, Requiem for
the Devil by Jerri Smith Ready. Iíve read it more times
than I can count and it always hits like an avalanche. Itís
about love and transformation and falling and flying. I just re-finished
it about a week ago and damn. Again. For those who want a bit
more plot description, itís a fairytale set in Washington
D.C. nowish. Itís first person, the devil, Lucifer. The
character from Paradise Lost except better dressed. A lot of evil
water under the bridge. Heís working as a political analyst,
promoting general disharmony and writing insane music as a side
line. Nine billion years of status quo. Then one day, he goes
to a bar and hears a woman sing very badly. Falls in love. Falls
again. But you know, he really is evil. I read it and I laugh.
I cry. We bought the book twice.
In a mystery vein, Laurie Kingís Mary Russell/Sherlock
Holmes series is also excellent. A lovely set piece into an era.
Purists will hate it, but the prickly characterization of Mary
and Holmes interactions are wonderful. Beekeeperís Apprentice
is really the sharpest in the series for me. The sense of characters
caught in the amber glow of another era. The first book starts
in the late teens, after Holmes ìretirementî to the
Downs and time flows slowly forward. The Monstrous Regiment of
Women with its play with faith, the role of women in post WWI
England, the suffrage movement, marriage vs. freedom, and some
damn sexy characters is also very nice.
Oh, and Dante. Have I mentioned that I really like the Divine
Comedy? Just a little light reading for the holidays. Although,
come to think of it, Inferno in January might be a bad mix.
Happy Holidays all
Buffy didn't
get any training, did she? -- luna, 17:38:48 12/19/02 Thu
Ever since we first started hearing about the slayers in training,
I've had trouble with the difference in their experience and Buffy's.
Even thought the movie was atrocious, we still accept it as the
beginning--here was innocent little Buffy girl, one day, and the
next day, she's called as a Slayer. THE Slayer. ONE is chosen.
Why didn't she have to do auditions, etc.? The whole slayerette
thing reminds me of the poor little gymnasts and their evil trainers,
every four years on the Olympics. I liked the Messianic version
better than the Tara Lipinski (sp? name?) version. Any advice
or corrections?
[> Re: Buffy didn't get
any training, did she? -- Rynn01, 18:06:29 12/19/02 Thu
Please don't hold me to this, but I seem to remember something
about a mole. I believe that all potential slayers have a mole/birthmark
above their heart, on their left breast. Buffy's parents had hers
removed right after she was born. That's why she slipped through
the Council's fingers.
Now where I'm getting this from, I'm not sure. Maybe the movie?
I just know I've heard or read this somewhere.
[> [> I think this is
from the movie version -- Rattletrap, 19:09:33 12/21/02
Sat
It has never been explicitly confirmed in the series, but I don't
think it's ever been explicitly denied either. Personally, I don't
put much stock in the stuff from the movie, and the birthmark
seems a little too on-the-nose campy for the series.
Just my $.02
'trap
[> Re: Buffy didn't get
any training, did she? -- Dochawk, 18:12:30 12/19/02 Thu
Slayers don't audition. they are chosen mytically. For some reason,
a number of young women are imbued with an essence that creates
slayer potential. The Council of Watchers finds some of the potential
slayers and begins to train them. Buffy was discovered only after
she had become slayer. This is confirmed in the episode "Becoming"
when Whistler takes Angel to see Buffy meet her watcher, Merrick
(same name in both movie and TV series, different actor though).
Kendra on the other hand was discovered as a child and trained
as a slayer in isolation. Your right the way the COW treated Kendra
reminds one of a gymnast or skater.
[> [> But... -- yez,
21:12:34 12/19/02 Thu
"Slayers don't audition. they are chosen mytically. For some
reason, a number of young women are imbued with an essence that
creates slayer potential...."
When Buffy started talking about how if they were all killed,
there would never be another slayer, ever, I wondered whether
there was a hereditary aspect to all this.
For example, out of all the young women who share common female
ancestors -- the slayer lineage -- an unknown number of them perhaps
are identified by the Council and put into training. Then one
is somehow chosen to be... well, The Chosen One, and her slayer
powers are nurtured and brought to full bloom and she is given
sole responsibility and leadership while the others continue to
train so they can step up if needed. Some of them procreate and
carry on the slayer lineage in their daughters.
I don't know, this is all speculation. I've always thought it
was stupid for the Council to not try to prepare a whole army
of slayers who could act in concert. I suspect that this is more
a function of blind adherence to tradition instead of some kind
of mystical parameter that only one girl can have full slayer
powers at any given moment. Or maybe the Council kept the girls
separate and in ignorance of each other so that they couldn't
be taken out all at once. Not that that worked...
Perhaps now, with Buffy trying to raise an army to wage "war"
against the First, we'll get some answers. After all, since Faith
is still alive, none of these "slayers in training"
should have any kind of super powers if they have to wait to be
chosen, right?
yez
[> [> [> Maybe (Fray
spoilers) -- Darby, 22:26:10 12/19/02 Thu
Maybe yes, maybe no. Joss in Fray, about a future Slayer,
extablished that at least some of the powers, both physical and
psychic, are in the girl before the choosing.
[> [> [> [> Re:
Please, someone tell me what "Fray" is?????? --
Angelina, 08:57:51 12/20/02 Fri
I have seen Joss's "Fray" mentioned several times on
the board, and haven't a clue what this is. I would appreciate
some info.
Thanks so much!
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Please, someone tell me what "Fray" is??????
(Fray Spoilers) -- Mystery, 09:12:53 12/20/02 Fri
"Fray" is a comic book series put out by Dark Horse,
written by Joss himself. It's set about 200 years or so into the
future. From what I heard, Joss has the Buffyverse firmly planned
out, and this future is the direct result of the events in Buffy
and Angel. Basically, there hasn't been a Slayer since "the
twenty-first century." Something happened where demons and
vampire were mostly banished. Since then the Slayer line has continued
but no one was called, until Fray. The Watcher's Council has gone
to crap, and one of those confusing "Good" demons is
trying to alert Fray to her heritage so she can stop the vampires
who have been reappearing lately. Pretty good storyline actually.
this is a really good site for the series...
http://www.inner-moppet.net/versi/
And for a major spoiler...go to this page...
http://www.inner-moppet.net/versi/multi/gallery/iss3/maybebuffy.jpg
<--I have a feeling this is a huge hint for this season...
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Re: Wow, Thanks Mystery, Will Check This Right Out.
-- Angelina, 09:17:53 12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Thanks for the link, Mystery! -- aliera, 16:50:42
12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> hmm...a possibility
i don't really want to see -- anom, 23:19:27 12/19/02 Thu
"After all, since Faith is still alive, none of these 'slayers
in training' should have any kind of super powers if they have
to wait to be chosen, right?"
What if they do bring Faith back but kill her off after a few
episodes? If 1 of the prospective Slayers at the Summers house
is the one Chosen when Faith dies, we'd get to see what happens
when a new Slayer is activated (or whatever they call it). 'Course,
there might not be much to see...Buffy apparently had no indication
she'd become the Slayer till Merrick contacted her.
How did the Council locate new Slayers anyway? Is that means still
in existence after the destruction of Watcher HQ?
[> [> [> Re: Slayer
Army? -- Philistine, 01:15:56 12/21/02 Sat
It should be relatively simple to create an army of Slayers in
modern times. Get a bunch of SiTs together with The Chosen One
- then stop the current Slayer's heart, activating one of your
SiTs. Perform CPR on the recently dead Slayer, then stop The Newly
Chosen One's heart, creating yet another Slayer. Repeat as desired,
train as long as necessary, then send 'em out to whoop up on some
Evil.
Seems logical enough - in an insane, trollish sort of way.
[> [> [> [> Re:
Slayer Army? -- Juliet, 13:20:15 12/21/02 Sat
I don't remember the exact link, but there was a fic like this
called "The 12th Sister" that was very creepy. I reccommed
you read it.
[> [> Thank you - I always
wondered about that -- Sophie, 12:33:02 12/20/02 Fri
[> It's my fault...
-- Darby, 20:06:47 12/19/02 Thu
You've probably picked up the "auditions" tag from my
posts. I'm convinced that the show is preparing for a small number
of spin-off possibilities, one of which is with a new Slayer,
and the parade through Sunnydale is an audition for Joss, not
the mystic selection.
On the other front, we have no way of knowing how long Merrick
trained Buffy, but we do know that Giles took it seriously and
that a lot of "behind the scenes" time exists in a semi-realtime
show. So, for instance, between S1 premiere & S2, she would have
already have had 9 months training (well, 6 since she was away
for the summer).
[> [> Implication I always
got... -- KdS, 04:28:35 12/20/02 Fri
That the choosing is entirely random but that the CoW had some
mystical means to identify potential Slayers before they were
called.
In Buffy's case the mystical means didn't work until she was called,
having had fifteen-sixteen years of normal late 20th century human
childhood, and one wonders if that was really an accident. Maybe
whoever or whatever calls Slayers realised that the CoW were no
longer suited to the job.
[> [> [> I always
saw it differently... -- Rob, 08:14:41 12/20/02 Fri
...that the reason Buffy wasn't informed before she was called
was that she comes from America. I thought it was a symbolic way
of showing how out of touch with the "(super)natural"
world the typical American is, while other countires like England,
Africa, etc still allow for more supernatural-ity in your life.
We were told Kendra's parents gave her to her Watcher at a young
age. Can you imagine this happening in America? It's likely that
a Watcher wouldn't even be able to have approached Buffy at a
younger age. Had he done so when she was in elementary school,
he might be accused of being a pedophile. I always figured that
in some other countries, people were a little more aware of the
fact that humans are not the only ones on the globe. There's a
vague implication there that Americans aren't as smart as they
think they are.
Rob
[> [> [> [> Re:
I DON'T GET IT...WHAT ABOUT THE HELLMOUTH? -- Angelina, 08:48:48
12/20/02 Fri
I was always under the impression that Buffy was THE chosen one.
"One girl in each generation..." And furthermore, I
thought that Buffy was "sent" to Sunnydale to guard
THE Hellmouth, which I assumed was the ONLY hellmouth, or the
one door to hell. Am I wrong in this assumption? I don't know
where the all these other "slayers" are coming from?
In fact, I am really upset seeing them all march through Buffy's
living room. It makes me sad because I know SMG's days as Buffy
are almost over. HUGH SIGH and SOB. But, really folks, can anyone
help me out here with regard to THE slayer. Buffy has even referred
to herself very recently in CWDP as "the" slayer.
[> [> [> [> [>
I can help -- Finn Mac Cool, 14:27:07 12/20/02 Fri
The "in every generation" thing is a little misleading.
There is never more than one Slayer alive at a given time (well,
until recently, because Buffy's two minutes of clinical death
at the hands of the Master caused Kendra to be called, and, when
Kendra died, Faith appeared). Whenever a Slayer dies, a different
girl gains the powers, so there is always only one girl with Slayer
powers (except for what I mentioned above). There's never any
more, but there's never any less. Each Slayer is called "the"
Slayer because she is always the only one in the world at the
time, like how we say "the" president even though there
have been and will be others. As far as we know, this manner of
selecting a new Slayer when the old one dies has been going on
since primevil times.
Each Slayer is a "Chosen One", because she is "chosen"
by mystical forces to be the Slayer, and is the only "one"
alive who has been chosen. Hence "Chosen One".
The girls who appeared in "Bring on the Night" are not
Slayers. In the season two episode "What's My Line Part II",
we are introduced to Kendra, the Slayer who was chosen because
of Buffy's temporary death in "Prophecy Girl". She says
that at an early age her family gave her to the Watchers' Council
to be trained in fighting, because they could tell through some
means that she had the potential within her to become a Vampire
Slayer. The British girls we're seeing now are like Kendra. When
they were very young, the Watchers detected that there was something
about them that made them canidates for becoming Slayers some
day. So they are carted off, given to Watchers, and trained for
the day when they might be called to be the Chosen One. However,
none of them have supernatural strength, healing powers, or psychic
visions like Buffy does. They're simply girls who have been highly
trained in fighting and might someday be made into Slayers.
Lastly, the writers have never given any legitimate evidence (at
least from my point of view, there are some who would disagree)
that there is more than one Hellmouth. However, while Buffy was
sent to guard it, the same thing doesn't happen to all Slayers.
The Master tried to open the Hellmouth in 1932, but got stuck
in it, and he and his minions spent over sixty years in Sunnydale,
waiting for the day he would be freed and the world would be destroyed.
However, the Master says to his minions in "The Harvest":
"It has been too long since you've fought a Slayer",
implying that there hadn't been one in town for a while. Also,
we've been shown through flashbacks that Spike fought Vampire
Slayers in New York and China, and, when the First Slayer appeared
in Buffy's dreams, it was implied she was an ancient African.
There is only one Hellmouth in the world, and there is only one
Slayer in the world at any given time. However, nothing says the
Slayer HAS to go to the Hellmouth. Remember, the Hellmouth is
a convergence of evil and mystical activity. But there are still
vampires and demons all across the world, and they need to be
fought, too.
Now, you may ask, if not all Slayers are sent to the Hellmouth,
what has stopped the world from ending in the past? There are
multiple theories:
1) Buffy is responsible for almost every Apocalypse she's fought,
so even if she hadn't come to the Hellmouth, the world probably
would still be around.
2) The Mayor controlled the supernatural underworld of Sunnydale
from its founding a hundred years ago up until "Graduation
Day Part II". His main goal was to achieve Ascension and
become a demon after a hundred years of loyal service to the Hellmouth's
unsavory population. However, if the world ended before he could
complete his hundred years, he would never achieve Ascension.
So, while he facilitated the needs of the demonic citizens, he
used his resources to stop them from ending the world. Some people
even theorize that it was the Mayor who brought Buffy to Sunnydale
in the first place, because he knew the Master was about to end
the world and needed her to stop it.
3) (and this is my personal theory) Giles said in the very first
episode, "Welcome to the Hellmouth", that he had looked
through the town records and had discovered a series of supernatural
activity escalating and converging at that specific time, in preparation
for the Master's renewed efforts to open the Hellmouth and end
the world. I think that in recent years the power of the Hellmouth
to pull evil creatures to it has increased. In the past it always
had unusually high levels of mystical occurances, but, in the
years just before Buffy arrived, more and more demons started
arriving in town and more and more vampires were being made, as
well as increased amounts of unexplained weirdness. Buffy's presence
in Sunnydale is so vital (hence why she was sent) because we're
entering a period in time when the Hellmouth is more dangerous
than ever and the world stands closer to the brink of destruction
than ever before.
Did I dispel confusion, or just muddy matters some more?
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Great explanation, Finn! My personal choice would be
either #2 or #3. -- Rob, 07:28:49 12/21/02 Sat
Slayers weren't needed at the Hellmouth always. Because there
are vampires, demons, etc EVERYWHERE. But for the past 7 years,
the Hellmouth's been kicking into full gear and it has needed
to be under constant surveillance. When Buffy died, Kendra was
sent there but was able to leave because Buffy was there to watch
the Hellmouth. When Kendra died, Faith was sent there, assumably
because Buffy would need major back-up for the Ascension. Of course,
ironically, Faith ended up working for the third season's Big
Bad.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> Faith wasn't sent to the Hellmouth... -- KdS,
07:37:25 12/21/02 Sat
I was under the impression that after Faith's original Watcher
was killed Faith had been drifting for some time before ending
up in Sunnydale. It's not clear whether she knew Buffy was there
and was looking for her, or whether she was drawn unaware to the
Hellmouth, either because of her Slayer status or because of her
inner darkness.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> I always assumed... -- Rob, 12:22:21
12/21/02 Sat
...that Faith's Watcher had, upon dying or shortly before, told
her to go to Sunnydale. At the very least, Faith had to have been
aware that there was a slayer in Sunnydale. What are the odds
that she'd just happen to drift there?
Rob
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> Re: Great explanation, Finn! My personal choice
would be either #2 or #3. -- gds, 08:40:21 12/23/02 Mon
Faith fled there to find Buffy. She admits to 'playing hookie'
when she meets Buffy.
http://studiesinwords.de/b_tvs_3rd.pdf page 38
Later we discover she's running for her life. Although she wouldn't
admit it, she thought "the infamous Buff" could help
- even if it was only to slow down Kakistos while she made her
getaway.
Later Giles convinces the WC to let her stay in Sunnydale.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Re: I can help -- gds, 08:55:32 12/23/02 Mon
http://studiesinwords.de/b_tvs_3rd.pdf page 136
Giles says "Sunnydale is on a Hellmouth"
I don't recall other places being call "Hellmouth",
but we have certainly seen other portals to hell dimensions (we
do know there are many of them) on both BtVS & AtS. The difference
between a "portal" & a "Hellmouth" has not
been made clear. Perhaps a portal is a small "Hellmouth",
and "the Hellmouth" simply means the biggest, baddest
Hellmouth.
[> [> [> [> You
have very weird ideas about Britain -- KdS, 09:32:34 12/20/02
Fri
We aren't all Watchers and Wiccans. I'd say that British culture
is currently much more rationalist than American - far less vocal
fundamentalist Christianity, far fewer people publicly claiming
to traffic with angels and demons, to be abducted by little grey
men, to channel ancient Atlanteans and suchlike.
Maybe some such idea of America being more rationalist than other
developed countries was in ME's mind, but if so they were dead
wrong.
[> [> [> [> [>
But England is so exotic, KdS! -- Rahael, 09:36:33 12/20/02
Fri
ME's ideas of other countries is rather strange - in Hearthrob,
they appear to be under the delusion that all Buddhists around
the world look Chinese/Nepalese/Tibetan, wherever the hell the
demon monks came from.
I can however say, with complete certainty that Angel definitely
lied to his co-workers about going to Sri Lanka. The idea of going
there for peace and tranquillity and finding demon monks has a
certain poetic irony, however.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> Hey, I've been to England. There are ghosts, vamps, and
werewolves everywhere! ;o) -- Rob, 09:37:52 12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> Yes. Aren't most werewolves from the UK or Europe?
-- Dichotomy, 10:04:07 12/20/02 Fri
I mean you've got The Wolf Man, The Curse of the Wolfman and The
Legend of the Wolfman, all based in England, France and/or Spain,
I think. Then you've got your American Werewolf in London (born
in the US but werewolfed in England) and American Werewolf in
Paris.
Of course, there is Teen Wolf.
Hmmmm.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> lets not forget the wonderful "The Wolves
of Willoughby Chase" -- Rahael, 10:07:00 12/20/02
Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> [> LOL. One of my childhood favorites
-- Sophist, 10:47:59 12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
[> [> [> also not to be forgotten... -- anom,
11:04:58 12/22/02 Sun
..."oww-OOOOOOO! Werewolves of London!"--sippin' piÒa
coladas at Trader Vic's, w/their perfect hair...well, one of 'em
was, anyway.
[> [> [> [> [>
[> LOL -- KdS, 09:38:32 12/20/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> [>
Wait, doesn't Britain have these folks who -- Cleanthes,
15:23:38 12/20/02 Fri
sit around a watch trains? And didn't some Brits get arrested
in Greece for playing "spot the plane" at a Greek military
airport?
Okay, here in the USA we don't have a "oh, those odd Limeys"
columns in our newspapers the way you have "oh, those odd
Yanks" columns, but, on balance, I think the oddity is enough
to go around on either side of the pond.
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: You have very weird ideas about Britain -- Rook, 18:24:13
12/20/02 Fri
Comparing anything about a country with 60 million people with
a country of 280 million is a little futile. With 220 million
more people than you, and the media's tendency to focus on odd
behavior, it may seem like America has more "irrational"
people...but in all probability, the numbers are the same, percentage-wise.
[> [> Another thing to
remember about the Slayer and training... -- Mystery, 09:15:13
12/22/02 Sun
Is it possible that Slayers "remember" the fighting
styles their predecessors practiced? Because Slayers do have dreams
of their predecessors.
just wondering.
There is
a new Mr. Whedon in the house......congratulations to Joss and
Kai on their new son. -- Rufus, 22:11:10 12/19/02 Thu
Thanks to Jana for the link
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/messages?msg=3877.1
Congratulations, Joss and Kai!
I am pleased to announce that Joss Whedon and his wife Kai Cole
delivered their first child yesterday.
He's a boy, but I don't know his name.
Consider this confirmation. Coming to you two degrees down from
Firefly showrunner, Tim Minear.
[> keep Honorificus away,
a newborn innocent would be right up the scary one's street
-- Helen, 00:51:46 12/20/02 Fri
but aw! what lovely news.
[> [> A baby? --
Honorificus (The Ever-Nurturing One), 11:56:25 12/20/02 Fri
How sweet! And born of such a splendid couple, too. Never fear--I
won't eat the tot. With this little one's pedigree, how can it
fail to be a great force for evil? I do look forward to assisting
it its corruption!
(Wonder what a good baby shower gift would be? A flail? A small
imp? Its very own copy of "9 Habits of Highly Horrible People"?)
[> [> [> Re: A baby?
-- Sophomorica, chewing on sleigh bells, 12:19:57 12/20/02
Fri
I won't eat the tot.
Honorificus, are you feeling allright? fever?
[> [> [> [> One
must be picky about the babies one eats, lovie. -- Honorificus
(The Peculiarly Particular One), 12:44:07 12/20/02 Fri
As I said, this one stands a great chance of becoming a force
for true Evil. Thus, it must be given the chance to grow. The
babies of the Sickeningly Good or Badly Dressed, on the other
hand, should be served with hard sauce.
[> Aww! -- ponygoyle,
07:17:52 12/20/02 Fri
I'm sure their spawn will grow up to eventually enslave us all
with his superior intellect, wit and use of metaphor.
All hail the new Whedon!
[> That's so great! Maybe
he'd allow us to babysit. ;o) -- Rob, 08:10:02 12/20/02
Fri
[> [> I have a feeling
Mr Whedon would find us and our obsessiveness slightly scary
-- Helen, 08:33:25 12/20/02 Fri
[> All in the family.
-- CW, 10:04:50 12/20/02 Fri
Joss' father and grandfather, both wrote for TV. I can see it
now as young master Whedon growing up...
Joss - "No, you can't go out and play until you finish your
script, and I've told you before, Santa Claus will expect that
outline for the new series, by Christmas eve.
Young Whedon - "For heavens sake, I don't wantta."
Joss - "Why don't you cuss like a normal kid?... Nobody talks
like that!"
Young Whedon - "Okay, FOX! FOX! FOX!"
Joss- "I meant good, wholesome swear words. Where do you
kids pick up such disgusting language?"
Young Whedon - "You're mean and you don't understand me!"
Joss - "Now, that's my boy! I couldn't be prouder of you!"
[> [> ROFLMAO! And here's
hoping their son's middle name is "Lavelle"! --
Rob, 11:55:37 12/20/02 Fri
Cyfarchion
y Tymor i Bawb, a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda! -- Marie, 01:41:30
12/20/02 Fri
In other words - "Season's Greetings to All, and a Happy
New Year!", just in case I don't manage to get back to the
board before Christmas!
Marie
[> God Jul, Marie! --
Cactus Watcher, 10:20:27 12/20/02 Fri
In Norse (or Danish if you prefer). ;o)
[> [> I lige mÂde
-- pellenaka, 12:04:52 12/20/02 Fri
Og ogs et godt nytÂr til jer alle.
[> [> [> r engelska
frbjuden nu? -- Sheri (som ska vara hos henes knullabulla
p sndag), 16:17:47 12/20/02 Fri
Jag tror att det finns vikingar i rumet.
God Jul och Gott Nytt Âr!
[> [> [> [> Schne
Weihnachten und ein frohes neues Jahr! -- OnM-Fan, 03:06:26
12/21/02 Sat
[> [> [> [> Some
translations, please?! -- Marie, 01:51:42 12/23/02 Mon
I like to learn, and where better to come than here?
And Celebaelin - bore da! How nice to see another Welsh person
here (we'll be taking over from these cat-lovin' Canadians, soon!).
M
[> [> ...or Swedish for
that matter... -- Millan, 02:27:15 12/23/02 Mon
God Jul och Gott Nytt r!
/Millan
"To read makes our speking English good."
- Xander, I Robot, You Jane
[> Cyfarchiadau traddodiadol
y tymor a chynhesrwydd aelwyd a chartref i bawb. -- Celebaelin,
02:05:19 12/22/02 Sun
I can get a quick translation from the Welsh side of the family.
Traditional seasons greetings and the warmth of hearth and home
to everyone.
Dreams of
home -- Tchaikovsky, 04:14:22 12/20/02 Fri
A poem, about encroaching Christmas for me: and partly written
out of my (failed) attempts to respond to Leslie, and, when I
checked back to the board Yabyumpan as well. My thoughts are with
you both at this season of supposed good cheer.
Dreams of home
Not often- awkward and accusatory
But it happens.
Momentarily- a homily homeily.
A tedious, edifying spectacle?
Family, tedious, with unedifying spectacles?
Perhaps- careful.
This isnít the whole truth
Neither nothing but the truth.
It may not be full of hedonism
Or wholesomeness.
Somewhere between white and black
Lies the gold of non-visual sparkle.
Not always- half-hearted and sheathed in dull.
Yet nacreous.
The repeated, the grey and grey and grey
Still contains that which shines in sunlight.
It may only be consolation
For loss, love, life.
L for leather- comic platitudesí levity
Levity, the word itself.
But sometimes. Somehow. Somewhere.
How does that end?
Over the rainbow- in a mythical world
Or thereís a place for us.
What exactly did that mean?
A mental place
Or a barrier under which the grass is greener
Escape to utopia? Note Atlantis drowned.
TCH
[> Thanks, that was great
-- Rahael, 04:48:07 12/20/02 Fri
[> Re: Dreams of winter
and rebirth -- aliera, 05:28:03 12/20/02 Fri
Thank you, TCH.
" I am the Holly King.
Lord of the Dying Year.
You may know me as the Green Man
or as the Winter King
or a thousand other names.
You will not see me again
until the Sun once more
begins to wane. As I withdraw
into the deep midwinter,
I contemplate the glowing light
of the reborn Sun in my cup--
and in the holy grail,
I see visions and dreams
of the year to come.
A sprig of holly as the token.
Protection against fierce winter,
focus, direction, success on the quest.
Homes filled with Holly and Pine,
evergreen leaves and bright winter berries,
seen against the sleeping Oaks of winter,
remembrance of the Life that sustains us
during the bitterest times of the Year." (1)
Solstice approaches
and my hands and head
are filled with needs
of family and friends close by.
But heart and spirit are filled
with thoughts and wishes
For those of You
who appear from far away
and cross my screen.
May you find hands to hold,
May you find light in the dark places,
May you find the love that warms,
May you dream wisely and well.
May you all receive what you need.
Many blessings of the season,
Angela (aka aliera)
(1)From the The Giftbringers of Yule: St Lucia and the Holly King
[> Lovely poems, thanks
TCH and aliera -- ponygirl, 07:23:32 12/20/02 Fri
[> Re: Dreams of home
-- Sara, 07:38:31 12/20/02 Fri
I just loved:
Family, tedious, with unedifying spectacles?
Perhaps- careful.
This isnít the whole truth
Neither nothing but the truth.
The idea of things being true, and yet not the whole story really
resonates with me. Thank you!
- Sara
[> Lovely - thank you.
-- Caroline, 10:46:24 12/20/02 Fri
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