October 2004 posts
Angel, Season 2 eps 15-18 -- Masq, 15:52:44
10/21/04 Thu
I'm actually up to "Couplet" in my marathon viewing.
Which means catch-up, ketchup
Reprise
I'm going to vote "Reprise" as my favorite episode of
Season 2. Even though I love "Dear Boy" and "Darla"
and "Reunion", Reprise is all about Angel and his struggle
to understand his mission and his destiny and himself. Half a
season out from "TSILA", he's already lost faith in
his shanshu, or at least his shanshu as *he* interprets it--the
idea that he can earn redemption with enough good deeds. He now
realizes that no amount of good deeds can ever pay for the evil
he did in the past.
But rather than realizing that redemption is really about "Go
from this point and sin no more" rather than "paying
back all your sins", Angel is just simply bitter.
And so he is going to throw himself on the pyre, so to speak.
In one big melodramatic move, he plans to bring down Wolfram and
Hart by killing the Senior Partners. He KNOWS it will get him
killed; he just doesn't care anymore. Except that part of him
does, or he wouldn't even bother with this.
Angel spends most of the episode running around trying to get
hold of a ring that will take him to "The Home Office"--the
source of the Senior Partners' power, what he believes will be
the Hell where the Senior Partners reside. He comes across a number
of obstacles, including Darla, who also wants the ring, although
what she thinks she'll get from it is anybody's guess.
But Angel gets the ring and puts it on and takes an elevator ride
to hell, only to find himself right back where he started at the
end of the journey.
As dead!Holland explains, the Home Office is Earth itself--the
real source the Senior Partners power is the capacity for evil
in every person. Wolfram and Hart accumulate power through facilitating
and supporting that capacity. You can't simply kill the Senior
Partners and "win" because the Senior Partners are themselves
nothing without the human equation*. So unless Angel plans
to take on that equation on a grand scale, he can't fight Wolfram
and Hart at their own game.
And given the human capacity for evil, it seems the humans he
is trying to help really aren't even worth helping, either. Because
no amount of helping is ever going to change the world.
Realizing this puts Angel at the lowest, darkest point he's been
in our whole history of knowing him as a souled being, lower and
darker even than the loser in the alley. I was so there with him
at the time. He's utterly devastated. Beyond caring. Exactly where
Wolfram and Hart wanted him to be.
And so goes home and finds Darla waiting for him and throws himself
at her in despair. He has every reason to believe he will lose
his soul in doing so and he doesn't care. And in fact, we see
Angel rise up in his bed after having sex with Darla, like an
echo of "Surprise".
The previews for "Epiphany" were deliberately edited
in a way that made it look like Angel could be attacking his friends--that
Angel would in fact lose his soul. And we were left for... was
it only a week? Longer? To debate over whether he actually would.
I couldn't make up my mind whether I thought Angel would lose
his soul or not. On the one hand, it seemed repetitive and a bit
too predictable. Why do Buffy Season 2 all over again? On the
other hand, it would be just like ME to do exactly what WAS predictable
just because we would all assume they wouldn't do it. And at that
time, it certainly seemed logical that Angel WOULD lose his soul.
We hadn't had any episode, really, that had negated the equation
made in "Surprise" between perfect happiness and sex.
We had had episodes dealing with the happiness clause of the curse,
but they dealt with a slightly different issue. For example, Angel
argues to the faux T'ish Magev in "GWBG" that the happiness
clause "isn't a sex thing, specifically". In other words,
things *besides* sex could result in perfect happiness. And "Eternity"
and "Enemies" both teased us with the "has he lost
his soul or hasn't he" question, but in both those episodes,
it was other things--a spell, and a drug--that are the supposed
catalysts, rather than sex. From this, it only followed that other
things, besides sex could also result in perfect happiness.
But Angel had gone two and a half years with no sex because he
feared sex was the one thing guaranteed to bring back Angelus.
In "Epiphany" he realizes that sex does not always equate
with perfect happiness, that in fact he had sex with Darla in
"a moment of perfect despair". The irony is that in
that moment of perfect despair, of no longer caring about the
future, he accomplishes the one thing that, IMO, secured his future,
possibly even his
shanshu. He fathered a child, a child who would live on after
Not Fade Away.
The flip side of that, of course, is that that child bears the
symbolism of having been conceived in a moment of perfect despair.
In fact, that would make a classic depressing!Connor icon. Connor
in his worst angsty moment from "Home" with the caption
"Conceived in a moment of perfect despair."
And to continue the irony, Darla, in seizing the opportunity to
remove Angel's soul, becomes mother to the infant who will re-ensoul
her in Season 3.
Final thought on Reprise: Those of you who have read my thoughts
on other AtS and BtVS episodes might be aware of how viscerally
I dislike farce and camp on the shows. I don't dislike it in principle,
I just think it's extremely difficult to pull off well without
undercutting the seriousness of the drama with cartoonishness.
That said, the opening scene of this episode is sheer genius--a
ritual sacrifice presented like two parents trying to assemble
a child's toy on Christmas Eve from indecipherable instructions.
A demon needs his tribute, and what's a busy executive to do?
Hire a couple of schlubs to do it for him. You don't need to understand
the Latin, just sound it out. 'Cause that's going to impress the
devil. Not.
[* And that almost makes the Senior Partners superfluous. As long
as there are human beings around ready to take advantage of the
evil in other human beings, what are the Senior Partners but metaphors
for the temptation to evil?]
Epiphany
Suffice it to say, Angel doesn't lose his soul. He kicks Darla
out, runs to help Kate (who has also given in to perfect despair),
and then to help his friends. Which is all very exciting and heroic
and all that, but the true highlight of the episode, IMO, is the
Lindsey-Angel smack down.
All season, Lindsey has been obsessed with Darla, and her becoming
a vampire again has only made that obsession stronger. For some
period of time, he harbored her in his apartment while her burns
healed, and he tried to protect her even after she went after
a Senior Partner in Reprise (so tell me why they chose to promote
him in "Dead End" instead of firing his ass two ways
to Sunday?)
So when Lindsey figures out that Darla has slept with Angel, we
see a whole new (although not completely unexpected) side of lawyer-boy.
He comes out swingin' (a sledge hammer), acting very much like
a man who thinks he has a claim on a woman.
So the question arises. Did Darla and Lindsey ever sleep together?
A lot of fans say yes. In fact, when Darla showed up pregnant
in season 3, there was speculation all the way up through Offspring
and even past that that the infant was actually Lindsey's child
and not Angel's.
Personally, I've never been one of those people who assumed characters
were having sex, or were even sexually attracted to each other,
if I didn't see any literal on-screen evidence for it (which is
why I make such a lousy slasher). Like, for example, oh, a scene
where they have sex? Obviously, there was sexual attraction, at
least on Lindsey's part. We get obsession, mooning, smoochies.
But actual sex?
In "Epiphany", Lindsey certainly acts like a
man who might have "had" Darla. But the thing about
obsession is that it doesn't necessarily need a firm ground to
stand on. It's all about the one obsessed, not the object of their
obsession. And all you need to get the one obsessed going is to
put the wrong thing between them and the object of their obsession.
And that, for Lindsey, is Angel.
Which leads to one of the most entertaining fight scenes on either
show, in eight seasons. Lindsey runs Angel over with a truck,
all righteous fury. Then Angel swipes his sledge hammer and crushes
the plastic hand he was responsible for. Talk about adding insult
to injury. And since you know Angel won't lose the fight, and
you know he won't kill Lindsey, it's all about watching the fun
violence. Ow! Ooh!
Now to get philosophical for a moment. The way I see it, we get
the real message of Angel the Series in Reprise and Epiphany.
The true existentialist message of the show. There can be no "big
win" against evil. The reality is, you must get up every
morning and fight evil again, and then again, and every individual
battle won is a victory if it saves one life or takes away some
bit of pain. What matters is what we do now, today. "Because,
if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness...
is the greatest thing in the world."
So if that is the show's message in a nut shell, the question
arises--did Not Fade Away undercut that message?
"Not Fade Away" has a lot of resonance with "Reprise".
Both episodes pose the question, "Is fighting the evil Wolfram
and Hart represent as easy as killing the masterminds behind the
whole thing?" Both episodes answer this question with a "No."
In Reprise, Angel procures a ring he believes will allow him to
kill the Senior Partners. In Not Fade Away, he and the gang take
on the Senior Partners' representatives--their eyes and arms on
Earth--the Circle of the Black Thorn. Another resonance with NFA
is that both moves are truly suicidal. Angel doesn't expect to
come back from either attack.
So what's the difference between Reprise, where behaving this
way is clearly a mistake, and NFA, where it's supposedly not (other
than the fact that at least in NFA, bad guys actually died)?
Not Fade Away and Reprise also both affirm that nothing we do
matters in changing the big picture. Evil will always exist, you
can't defeat it once and for all. Holland tells Angel as much
in the elevator ride in "Reprise". Gunn raises the question
to Anne in "NFA". What if nothing you did mattered?
Would you still fight?
There is no big win, and NFA was not the big win, and it's quite
possible our heroes died in that alley to accomplish only one
thing--to bring down one (albeit powerful) source of evil. They
won't be around to get up the next morning to fight the Good Fight
again. Does this somehow make their willingness to die for this
one accomplishment less?
Disharmony
It's no big secret that I have absolutely no use whatsoever for
Harmony. But really, Harmony was the least of this episode's problems:
1. O.K. -- we know that Cordelia didn't stay in contact with her
Sunnydale friends at first in season 1 out of shame, but she got
over that in "Room w/ a Vu". So why did no one think
to tell Cordelia that her best friend was a vampire? And wouldn't
Cordelia and Harmony herself have kept in touch? And if Harmony
opted not to keep in touch because of the whole vampire issue,
wouldn't Cordelia have wondered what the deal was if her best
friend NEVER contacted her for a year and a half after graduation??
2. And Vampire (un)Life Coach Doug's big cooperative plan? "Turn
two and one's food?" Soooo anti-Darwinian and anti-economical
and anti-abunchofotherstuff. You'll run out of food really fast,
at an exponential rate. How about turn one, two's food? Especially
if some get stored for the winter?
3. When exactly was there a vote about who would become the new
boss of Angel Investigations? Up until "Disharmony",
Cordelia, Gunn, and Wesley worked as a team. They quibbled about
whose name they would use as the name of the firm, and ended up
just sticking with "Angel Investigations". Now Angel
is back and all of a sudden, Wesley's the boss. Um... why? He
doesn't have seniority. He's not the best fighter. Sure, he's
smart and can come up with plans, but that didn't make him boss
before.
Oh! He's the only other White Guy! Silly me.
4. In this episode, Angel is desperate to get back on Cordelia's
good side (and not Wesley's. Why?), so he lies to Cordelia about
sleeping with Darla, which will come back to bite him in the butt,
and he bribes her with new clothes. The look of anger and betrayal
that Wesley gets on his face when he sees the latter is just....
wow. And yet they don't follow up on that in the next episode
at all. It's just forgotten.
5. My next issue is really more of a problem with Season 5. Wesley
HATED Harmony in "Disharmony". So why promote her to
Angel's Executive Secretary, thereby guaranteeing this brainless
annoying klutz would be around ALL THE TIME? Especially after
she betrayed them?
6. The good stuff: I like Cordelia's speech about how she is happy
in her new life. She feels good about herself for what she
does--doing good and helping people, rather than for what
she is--cute and popular, as was the case in high school.
Her transformation into a new and different character is complete,
and it is convincing. I have a whole bunch of thoughts about where
they took her after that, but I'll save them for my season 3 reviews.
Dead End
Name your favorite Lindsey episode.
Dead End.
Name your favorite monologue/soliloquy in eight years of AtS and
BtVS.
The Evil Hand Speech in Dead End.
Do you like buddy movies?
No, they bore me. Never was into male bonding.
Except for--
Dead End.
Enough with the praise. Here's a question for you. After two years
of observing their records, if you were a Wolfram and Hart executive
and had to decide between promoting Lindsey or Lilah, who would
you promote? Forget about their mutual incompetence. Just concentrate
on what's really important. Propensity for evil.
How.Stupid.Are.These.People? Lilah is a company gal all the way.
Lindsey has betrayed the firm and the partners repeatedly. He
takes showers every night when he gets home from the office. He's
unreliable. Moral (gasp!). And he's got those evil hand issues.
Duh.
And yet, Lindsey gets the hand transplant, and he's offered the
promotion, while Lilah is apparently going to be transferred to
the branch office in Hell.
WTF?
I mean, just look at how Lindsey deals with the whole hand thing.
Soon after his transplant, Lindsey discovers something funky is
going on with his new hand. He's writing kill kill kill
on everything. It's crazy! So he starts a personal investigation
into his hand's origin right around the same time the gang starts
looking into someone's funky new eyeball.
Which puts Lindsey and Angel in that fun slap-stick buddy-movie
pairing (did anyone else find the Angel/Lindsey bickering a tad
over the top in places? When it bordered on juvenile, it just
seemed OOC to me).
Together, Lindsey and Angel discover that Wolfram and Hart are
harvesting body parts from live people, people who are being kept
alive while their bodies are slowly disassembled for other people's
use. Ewww. So our heroes put a stop to this, save the people they
can and mercy-kill the others, and then Lindsey decides it's time
to get the hell out of Dodge.
A lot of people think Lindsey was redeemed at the end of this
episode. Personally, I think he was just tired of being jerked
around and used by Wolfram and Hart. Yes, he does have a sense
of ethics. But he doesn't necessarily listen to it when it interferes
with what he perceives is his personal self-interest. I think
he still believes in the philosophy of, "You're either
the user or the used." Which is why he's going to get one
up on Wolfram and Hart before they get one up on him. I mean,
they're not really just going to let him walk away, any more than
they would have let Lilah walk away after being fired. They'll
be after him, and he knows that.
And how do you get one up on Wolfram and Hart? "The key to
Wolfram and Hart is to not play their game. You gotta make them
play yours." Lindsey doesn't forget that in Season 5 (he's
just not very *good* at it). Angel, on the other hand, does forget
that in "Home" (for the best of reasons, but still).
Bye, bye, Linds. See you on the other side of seasons 3 and 4.
A note on Cordelia: I think it's "Dead End" where M.E.
starts the Cordelia-really-can't-handle-her-visions thing.
But they don't do much more with it than have her cry and complain
until "That Vision Thing", and even then we have to
wait until "Birthday" for a resolution.
Having dabbled in writing virtual television now myself, I realize
how hard it is to keep viewers aware of a plot thread that you
don't plan to pay off for a while. When it's something like, "the
visions are hurting me", there's not much building and changing
that can be done, so you end up with weekly repetition of the
same refrain. Trying to make the repetition, well, not boring
is a challenge.
The question is, this is episode 18 of season 2. Were they already
planning to half-demonize Cordelia at this point, or were they
just playing with a possibility ("the visions hurt"),
unsure where they would take it?
Replies:
[> a few things -- anom, 23:13:11 10/21/04 Thu
Reprise:
I disagree & always will that Angel either was actively trying
to lose his soul or didn't care if he did. To me, "I just
wanna feel something besides the cold" makes it entirely
clear that he's in a frame of mind in which it's not remotely
possible for him to achieve a moment of perfect happiness, from
sex or anything else. And I don't think he's under any illusion
that he could. His whole affect is not that of someone trying
to find happiness. He's not even trying to lose his soul to escape
awareness of the knowledge that sent him into this state--he's
trying to feel something, not get away from his feelings.
Epiphany:
"So what's the difference between Reprise, where behaving
this way is clearly a mistake, and NFA, where it's supposedly
not (other than the fact that at least in NFA, bad guys actually
died)?"
Only other one I can think of is that Angel's no longer under
the illusion that he'll win once & for all. Actually, scratch
"other." 1 bad guy died in Epiphany--the Senior Partner
Angel grabbed by the throat w/the glove on.
Disharmony:
Absolutely agree about the pyramid scheme. Increase the competition
twice as fast as the food supply? Really stupid. But that's why
it's a pyramid scheme. And that's the kind of people who fall
for them. (& yeah, there is that other, outside food supply...till
the competition gets too numerous)
Dead End:
No particular point to make on this one. Just, nice review!
[> [> Actually... -- Masq, 05:45:25 10/22/04 Fri
I don't think that Senior Partner died. As Lorne explains to Angel,
the SP needs to create a physical body in order to come to our
plane, and chooses to appear as a certain kind of demon, but when
Angel kills him, he only kills the body the SP is using to manifest,
not the SP itself.
[> Thought and a question -- OnM, 04:58:55 10/22/04
Fri
*** the real source [of] the Senior Partners power is the capacity
for evil in every person ***
Which of course sounds a lot like the First Evil's modus operandi.
Could it be that the Senior Partners are made up of beings that
the FE 'mated' with over the millenia, like Caleb?
Caleb got done-in by the Buffster, natch. But if he hadn't, then
perhaps in time, after repeated 'relations' with the FE...
... whad'ya think?
[> [> Re: Thought and a question -- Masq, 05:42:09
10/22/04 Fri
The Senior Partners are demons who came of age during the time
of the Old Ones, and that's about all we know about them.
As for their modus operandi being like the First, I think the
SPs were a much more well-done example of that modus operandi
(as well as beating the First to the "it's not about good
and evil, it's about power" punch by three seasons).
[> [> [> The parentage of the Senior Partners
-- Alistair, 13:28:37 10/22/04 Fri
I have actually thought about this possibility: the Wolf Ram and
Hart are the offspring of the First Evil. We know that the First
Evil once walked the Earth in the time of the Old Ones in the
form of a crab like demon. While not oneof the Old Ones, it had
form, a form it lost when it was killed- there is some contextual
evidence to show that the Scythe was used to kill it, the last
pure demon to walk this Earth. This occured on the Sunnydale hellmouth,
perhaps finally closing it. Perhaps this is what the senior partners
came from and why their power was allowed to grow beyond that
of the Old Ones. They, the multitude of them, are locked away
in a bunch of dimensions, never to return to Earth, with no known
power base on Earth except those who still worship them. The Senior
Partners not only have a power base, but they run things on Earth,
they have a stake on it, more then any other demonic entity except
the first evil, which is not even demonic. Perhaps once upon a
time, the First birthed the Wolf Ram and Hart... a triumvirate
which profited from the fall of the the Old Ones, and hell, maybe
even played a part in kicking them out- to have the power to rule
and corrupt. This ties in well with the idea of the fallen angels
who taught the humans many things (from Enochian theology)- they
taught the humans warfare and agriculture, and language. They
also insemenated man with their angelic (demonic) seed and the
daughters of man gave birth to angelic beings (the impure demons
who walk the Earth). The Old Ones and the humans did meet and
were in contact for a long time, Illyria remembers the primitive
humans, though it ruled long before humans formed any civilization.
Illyria remembers the vampires from its youth which means the
humans probably predate Illyria, or perhaps a species from which
the humans evolved.
High Stakes 2004 -- Buffyboy,
23:28:53 10/22/04 Fri
I'm surprised that there's no discussion of this event on the
board, but in case someone out there doesn't know, on Sunday October
24 at 2:00 PM Joss Whedon and apparently much of the cast of AtS
and BtVS will make an appearance at the LA meeting of High Stakes
2004, a fundraiser for the Kerry campaign. For lot's more information
check out www.highstakes2004.com.
In the San Francisco Bay Area the only meeting is in Saratoga.
Is anyone else on the board planning to attend? If so, I'll see
you there.
Replies:
[> Whedon and cast have disappointed me... -- Vegeta,
10:48:33 10/26/04 Tue
I first heard about this on ain'titcoolnews.com. I really don't
have any problem with people voting for whoever they see fit.
However I think the actions of Bruce Springsteen, REM, Ben Affleck,
Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz (who insinuated Bush would make RAPE
legal!) is shameful. Unfortunately Whedon and company have decided
to throw their hat into their Hollywood Liberal Shithole. Nothing
like allienating some of your fanbase. I thought that Whedon would
be a little wiser than this. It's not that I'll stop enjoying
ME productions, however I find it disgusting that someone would
shamefully attempt to subvert their fanbase to their ideology.
It shows (especially the concerts for change) that these "artists"
have very little respect for the fact that their fans can make
a educated decision on their own without their "artistic"
input. I think Laura Ingraham put it best "Shut up and sing"
(or act or write or whatever)...
Shame on Joss
Vegeta
[> [> This attitude puzzles me. -- Sophist, 12:54:48
10/26/04 Tue
Let's start off by agreeing -- I hope -- that working in Hollywood
doesn't mean leaving at the door your right to participate in
politics. Charlton Heston shouldn't have to, Sonny Bono shouldn't
have to, Arnold Schwarzenegger shouldn't have to, and Joss shouldn't
have to.
Now, the question is, what's the proper way to do that without
abusing your status? Let's take for example a singer (call her
Linda) who gives a concert. Nothing in the advertisements for
the concert suggest any political motive or purpose to it. In
the middle of the concert, before an audience which presumably
came only to hear music, Linda suddenly gives a political sermon.
Is this an abuse of the audience? Maybe; unless Linda has a reputation
for this, there's an air of false pretense here. OTOH, the harm
is minor even if the annoyance is great.
Now another example. The NRA holds a rally to as part of an effort
to repeal the Brady bill. It advertises a celebrity spokesman
(call him Charlton). I can't imagine how anyone could find fault
with this. Sure, it takes advantage of celebrity status to "sell"
a position (just as advertisers do to sell products). The alternative,
though, is to arbitrarily silence anyone who ever appeared in
a movie or a professional sport. In fact, if being famous disqualifies
you, we should ban elections altogether and assign the offices
by random drawing, since any politician famous enough to be elected
would be ipso facto disqualified.
It just is not true that people make decisions "on their
own". They take input from family, neighbors, TV, newspapers,
blogs, etc. If Charlton Heston wants to be part of that process,
he has every right to. So does Joss.
[> [> [> Thanks -- TCH, 15:18:38 10/26/04 Tue
[> [> [> Agreed. -- Rob, 20:39:02 10/26/04
Tue
[> [> [> Amen. -- OnM, 12:28:23 10/27/04 Wed
[> Re: High Stakes 2004 -- Maeve Rigan, 08:55:35
10/23/04 Sat
Lots of buzz on whedonesque.com! Maybe no one wants to open the
political can o' worms?
[> [> Re: High Stakes 2004 -- JudyKay, 11:08:41
10/23/04 Sat
I'm going to the one in Seattle. Anyone else?
[> I was going to Saratoga but decided to go to LA instead
-- Dochawk, 15:00:41 10/23/04 Sat
Since I live in LA, I was going to SF for the weekend, but changed
my plans. The chance to party with JW, AH and AB just too much
better, though would have liked to see the SF folks. Anyone else
going to the LA event?
Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula
Rasa" -- Evan, 17:41:19 10/24/04 Sun
Hey guys.
So I'm making a webpage to keep my writings on and I have a few
questions for you all. Firstly, Masq, is it okay if I put a link
to this message board on my website? And, also, to anyone else
who writes about Lost on here (e.g. OnM, dub), is it cool if I
sometimes quote things you say in my analyses, like Masq sometimes
did?
Thanks! And... here's my third one.
Lost Episode 102 Tabula Rasa
i) The Teaser
So, if you missed the 2-hour pilot, this episode starts with a
convenient recap, first of the form, Alright, here s what I think
happened: [Insert events from first hour of pilot] and then moving
on to Hey, why don t we talk about that other thing? You know
the one, that thing about how [insert events from second hour
of pilot] . It was kind of lame. But at least we got to hear Sawyer
call Kate Freckles and Sayid Abdul . Add those on to the list
that already contains Doc for Jack and Lardo for Hurley. This
guy is a nicknaming machine!* Then, we cross-cut to the U.S. Marshal
(if that IS his real occupation) telling Jack that she is dangerous,
and Jack discovers some mug shots of his new friend, Kate, revealing
the solution to the mystery of the pronoun s antecedent. But we
all know Kate isn t dangerous, don t we? Absolutely nothing about
her disposition indicates violence, and in fact she seems to be
a very moral, good person based on some of her emotional reactions
to things (e.g. taking the shoes off the dead body and Jack s
request that she sew him up). Of course, anything is possible
and we could ve been misled, so we get some nice mock melodramatic
suspense when the gang on the hill decides that Kate should be
the one to look after the gun.
ii) Lying:
After discovering the French message, the in gang decides that
the best course of action is to not mention what they ve discovered
to anybody else. The reason why that would be a bad idea, Sayid
explains, is that hope if a very dangerous thing to lose . Why,
though? I guess what he means is that, right now, everyone still
wants to go home. The reason they wake up in the morning is to
make every effort to stay alive and well so they can return to
their lives after this ordeal is over with. But if they knew that
there was little to no chance of ever being rescued, maybe they
wouldn t even bother to make such an effort. Okay, I can buy that.
Good call, Sayid.
But, on the other hand, right now pretty much the only thing our
survivors are doing is keeping themselves alive. They re eating
and drinking what s still left from the plane, but few are making
any effort to figure out ways to get food and drinkable water
beyond that. They ve built some acceptable shelters, but haven
t started on anything even remotely permanent that could protect
them from the violent weather (amongst other things) on the island.
It seems like their attitude right now is something like Well,
if we don t get rescued soon enough, I guess we ll just get eaten
by the scary monster and die. Why would they accept such an attitude?
Because they still have hope that they WILL get rescued soon enough.
Losing that hope could actually be the kick in the pants that
they need to get their inevitable new lives started.
Beyond any practical considerations, there s another problem with
lying: it s just kinda wrong. Withholding this information from
the others on the beach, this information which is really quite
vital to their lives Is that a decision that Sayid, Sawyer, Kate,
Boone, Shannon and Charlie should be allowed to make? If THEY
can handle it, why can t the others?
Well, I guess they re just doing what they think is right, so
who am I to condemn? But if I end up with a scene in the future
containing dialogue resembling anything like Why didn t you tell
us this before?! It s not the message that upsets us the most,
it s the fact that you lied to us! , I ll be pretty angry. Although,
I suppose the writers deserve a little more credit than that,
since they make basically that exact point in this very episode,
but in a much cleverer way
iii) Anything else?
When the gang gets back to the beach, Kate pulls Jack aside and
says that she needs to tell him something. She informs him about
the transmission they discovered, that hope is lost. His reaction?
In possibly my favourite moment on the show up to this point,
Jack looks at her with a mixture of frustration, sadness and disappointment
and asks, Anything else? He doesn t care about the message; he
just wants her to tell him the truth about shrapnel man. He knows
they re lost. What matters now is building new relationships,
a new life. He IS more upset by his friend s betrayal than by
getting confirmation that they have no hope of getting rescued.
That s powerful. I like that.
Is it believable, though? Well let s say yes, because I just like
it so much.
iv) The Old Man and His Mortgage:
Another instance of betrayal in this episode comes from the flashback
of Kate s time in Australia. Kate, on the run from U.S. Marshal
man, ends up at the farm of Ray Mullin, who, having recently lost
his wife, is left with lots of chores and a hell of a mortgage.
With his prosthetic arm, he s in desperate need of help with the
former, so he offers Kate a job and a place to stay. But when
he sees her wanted picture in the post office offering a $23 000
reward, he has a tough decision to make. She s a wanted criminal,
sure, but she just doesn t seem dangerous. And, like Ray says
himself (and I believe that he means it), everyone deserves a
fresh start. The thing is, being constantly on the run from the
law doesn t really qualify as a fresh start. And, as far as Ray
knows, Kate s a violent criminal who should be in jail. So he
has to decide whether to put his trust in American jurisprudence
(or possibly Canadian, if Kate is telling the truth), helping
himself to pay off a good chunk of that mortgage, or instead to
put his trust in his own instincts about a girl who he knows basically
nothing about other than the fact that she has trust issues and
is willing to leave in the middle of the night without even saying
goodbye, gaining himself nothing other than that good feeling
you get from helping somebody of ambiguous morality. He makes
the obvious choice (well, obvious from the way I ve described
it anyway) and turns her in. Amazingly enough, Kate is able to
understand and respect this choice, so she saves his life from
a burning car (which, admittedly, she was responsible for flipping
over) and later asks Marshall for one last favour : that he make
sure Ray gets his money.
Ray had his reasons for betraying Kate and, likewise, Kate has
reasons for lying to Jack. I would say they probably have a lot
to do with those trust issues she mentioned. I mean she hardly
knows this guy, so how should she know that his reaction to finding
out she s a dangerous criminal was It s none of my business .
(Note: There s actually one other example of betrayal in this
episode, one that is inarguably positive. Locke, having built
a dog whistle and using it to find Walt s lost dog Vincent, lets
Michael pretend to be the one who found it. A lie? Yeah. Wrong?
Definitely not. It s selfless, and sweet.)
v) The Big Picture?
I m sure Jack understands Kate s reason for lying, but when she
comes to him suggesting that they put this poor guy out of his
misery, Jack assumes her motives are selfish (and they probably
are, at least a little). He tells her that he saw her mug shot
and gives her an accusing look. I am not a murderer , he says.
But would it be murder? Sawyer doesn t think so. During Jack s
search for antibiotics in the fuselage, Sawyer is there too, searching
for food and smokes ( well, that about sums it up ). His opinion
is that Jack is being a fool, wasting the medicine they have on
someone with so little hope of surviving. But Jack is not a murderer,
and by civilized rules, allowing someone to die before doing all
you can to save them counts as murder. Sawyer, however, feels
that it s time to abandon the rules of civilization. He s living
in the wild , and in the wild you need to be smart to survive.
You have to optimize the usefulness of whatever resources you
have, and wasting all your medicine on some lost cause doesn t
quite qualify.
So who s right? Jack, who nobly tries to save this man s life
at all costs, or Sawyer, who s looking at the big picture and
whose practicality might actually save someone else down the road
(or at least cure their foot fungus and ear infections)? The truth
is, I have no idea who s right.
According to Kantian morality, I d say Jack was right. Kantian
reasoning makes use of what s called the categorical imperative
, according to which morality can be summed up, basically, by
a list of moral truths that can be discovered by taking the right
thing to do in some situation, and generalizing it to ALL situations,
a category. No environmental particulars can have any impact on
what s right; we must always make moral decisions as if our situation
were ideal. So, if on land it would be morally praiseworthy to
try to save someone s life at all costs, so is it on the island.
And practical considerations are always trumped by moral ones
of course, so Jack is right.
The problem I have with the categorical imperative, though, is
that, well, I pretty much just think it s the wrong way to reason
morally. Environmental factors DO have an impact on what s right,
and living as if we were in an ideal world sort of misses the
point. Instead, we should recognize that our situation is not
ideal, and make decisions based on how to reduce the disparity
between the real world and what we consider to be the RIGHT world.
If we pretend the world is ideal already, then sometimes all we
end up doing is perpetuating the status quo.
In MY right world, situational factors are pretty much ALL that
matter. As brilliant as Kant may have been, I have yet to successfully
apply any sort of logic or reason to my own moral attitudes (and,
sorry Kant, but they ARE personal things), so pretty much only
two things exist in my moral universe: the situation, and my feelings
towards it. In some cases, I might feel that lying is right and
in others wrong (and, in fact, examples of both have already come
up in this analysis). The same probably goes even for killing.
And, truthfully, if I was on that island with the knowledge that
they have, I would probably tend to side with Kate and Sawyer
rather than Jack, especially if Sawyer was telling the truth about
the marshal actually wanting him to do it.
But, Jack s side definitely looks more attractive after Sawyer
actually goes through with it, shooting at the man s heart with
his last bullet (how poetic). Unfortunately, he misses, and instead
collapses the guy s lung, guaranteeing him a slow, painful death.
So, now that the situation has changed and death is completely
inevitable, Jack decides that ending the man s pain takes precedence
over saving his life, and he finishes the job himself. Take that,
Kant.
vi) Just What She Needed
A new theme is beginning to emerge with this episode: the theme
of regaining something that has been lost. Kate, through the plane
crash, has regained her freedom. She lived and the marshal died.
She got away, and now she really does get her fresh start. And
it was the island that gave it to her.
Now let s talk about that plane crash for a minute. What the hell
happened anyway? They hit a bit of turbulence, and then the back
of the plane just rips right off? Would that happen? Based on
the location of the other pieces of the plane as compared with
the fuselage, it is clear that the plane was directly over the
island when it crashed, not over the water. I would like to suggest
that the island itself, this mystical thing that reacts to people
s feelings and gives them just what they need to resolve them,
is actually responsible for the crash. And, at the moment, the
most plausible character who it was reacting to at the time would
be Kate. She s the one who seems to have directly gained something
from the mere fact of having survived a plane crash on a deserted
island. And, after all, she ll do anything to get away .
I know, this is a little bit radical and premature, but I think
it s worth considering. I mean look at her story. She s on the
run from a U.S. Marshal, her own personal Javert/Gerard, and right
now it s looking like he s gonna come out on top. But we all know
that isn t how the story ends. No, in the end Jean Valjean s good
nature becomes apparent to his pursuer when he saves his life,
leading Jalvert to the realization that he s just been wasting
that life anyway, so he kills himself. This isn t quite how it
ends up happening on the island, but it s pretty damn close. Kate
did save the marshal s life by getting her handcuffs off and putting
on his oxygen mask. And, after hearing what her one last favour
was, maybe it started dawning on him that she wasn t such a bad
person after all, and this could be the reason why he practically
begged Sawyer to kill him. Meh. Just a thought.**
vii) Mystical elements in this episode
There aren t too many. The monster does make one appearance, when
Michael is wandering in the jungle. He gets scared, hears something
coming at him, runs away and bumps into Sun, bathing. He gets
distracted, the monster goes away. Also, in the quite amusing
scene that led up to Michael s jungle trek, Walt tells his Dad
that if he was his friend, he d find Vincent. I m gonna get your
dog back as soon as it stops raining , Micheael says. Of course,
it immediately stops raining. Another coincidental match-up between
thought and environment? Or did Walt himself will the rain to
stop? Probably, in this case, the former.
viii) Tabula Rasa
Tabula Rasa is a term meaning blank slate that was made popular
by John Locke. It refers to the human mind at birth, which before
Locke s time was assumed to come prepackaged with useful knowledge
of stuff like math, language, geometry and maybe even some sort
of collective human fact base. Locke instead suggested that, no,
actually it s our environment that imposes everything on us. When
we re born, our brain is a blank slate and everything develops
from there: our personality, our memories, our knowledge. It all
comes from the world around us.
This being the title of the episode probably has a few meanings.
First, of course, it refers to the sentiment that Jack expresses
at the end of the episode when Kate tells him that she s ready
to confess to him what she did. He responds that he just doesn
t want to know. It doesn t matter who we were, what we did before
all this , he says. Three days ago we all died. We should be able
to start over . So neither Jack nor the audience finds out anything
about Kate s crime, making this point even more powerful.
But at the same time, there is some irony to this sentiment, because
these people are anything but blank slates. Their identity on
the island seems to be very much shaped by their past. This irony
becomes much clearer, however, in next week s episode, which focuses
on the appropriately named character, Locke . (Coincidence? Of
course not.) So, I ll leave it until then.
Evan.
*Dammit! I wrote this, and then in White Rabbit , the show itself
made a self-referential comment about the same thing, making me
look unoriginal bloody hell.
** Thanks to Cinderellabop from the Lost-tv message board for
opening my eyes to the similarities between Kate s story and Les
Miserables. It seems obvious to me now, but maybe it s a reflection
of my own literary ineptitude that the only parallel I could figured
out on my own was with The Fugitive (which, incidentally, I also
hadn't noticed was clearly inspired by Les Mis).
Replies:
[> NOTE to Evan -- dub ;o), 18:27:37 10/26/04 Tue
I notice that Masq hasn't responded to your question, and it may
be because I don't think she has cable any more, therefore can't
watch Lost, therefore probably is not reading all the posts on
Lost. There's nothing in your subject line that would make her
think there's a question for her in here, so you might want to
post separately and direct it right to her...
Just a suggestion.
;o)
[> [> Re: NOTE to Evan -- Evan, 18:54:36 10/26/04
Tue
Thanks dub. I took it upon myself to link to the site anyway.
I assumed she wouldn't mind, since Lost is now an official topic.
Plus, most of the traffic on my site will probably come from people
from this board already anyway, so whatever. Maybe I'll e-mail
her to double check.
Oh, and I got closed captioning because I taped the episode for
my roommate. The line was very clearly "I made this birthday
wish four years ago". There was no for/four ambiguity at
all.
Oh yeah, AND http://www.geocities.com/elliotschiller@rogers.com
(Lame domain name, I know. Hopefully it isn't permanent.)
[> [> [> Thanks! -- dub ;o), 17:30:39 10/27/04
Wed
[> If I ever say anything quotable... -- dub ;o), 18:21:22
10/24/04 Sun
you'd be welcome to put it on your web site.
;o)
[> [> Thanks :) -- Evan, 15:51:40 10/25/04 Mon
Looks like the lost-tv board is down, huh?
Meh. They seemed to have no interest in me there.
[> [> [> Exceeded their bandwidth... -- dub, 19:08:52
10/25/04 Mon
It's only the 25th, so if their bandwidth is calculated monthly
they're going to start running out earlier and earlier...and there's
a note on there somewhere about how it was costing over $1,000
a month for the site? That's ridiculous!
How is it that the Buffy community managed to run so many high-quality,
high-density boards for seven years, and this one crashes at the
beginning of the first season? Doesn't bode well for the future
of that particular site.
;o)
[> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa" --
Jane, 19:35:50 10/24/04 Sun
Fascinating analysis, Evan! I am really loving this show too.
It has such intricacy and possiblity already. I just gave my tape
of the first 4 episodes to my friend Sue, in hopes that I will
hook her and give myself someone to talk to about it in RL!
[> [> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa"
-- Evan, 15:54:42 10/25/04 Mon
It's like Buffy conversion all over again! I'm doing this too.
I got my Mom all into this show, and she got my sister into it.
And I've gotten my roommates to start watching it too, but they're
not into over-analyzing things like I am, haha.
[> Do quote away, Renee. ;-) -- OnM, 21:32:46 10/24/04
Sun
Is this website dedicated to LOST, or is it a more general one?
If it's LOST-specific, you could always name it "Got LOST?"
Then you need a graphic of a half-empty (full?) glass of milk
with a coconut tree behind it.
;-)
[> [> Re: Do quote away, Renee. ;-) -- Evan, 15:56:50
10/25/04 Mon
That's hilarious. Maybe YOU should start a website. We can cross-reference
each other!
[> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa" --
Rufus, 02:14:51 10/25/04 Mon
There s actually one other example of betrayal in this episode,
one that is inarguably positive. Locke, having built a dog whistle
and using it to find Walt s lost dog Vincent, lets Michael pretend
to be the one who found it. A lie? Yeah. Wrong? Definitely not.
It s selfless, and sweet.
Or, manipulative. Locke seemed prepped to be the major villian
of the show, finding that dog and a few other things puts that
into question. Locke is either a man who has for the first time
in his life had things go exactly his way, or he is someone who
will do what it takes to get what he wants. I wonder which?
[> [> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa"
-- Evan, 15:49:41 10/25/04 Mon
Maybe. Hmmmmm. What does he gain from helping Michael, though?
Is he gonna demand a favour from him in the future? Or is he just
in general trying to come across as a good guy so that when he
reveals himself as a ruthless power-hungry opportunist he has
the element of surprise on his side?
I still think he was just being sweet, but you could be right.
[> [> [> Re: It's all about power -- Rufus, 17:04:29
10/26/04 Tue
So far I see Locke as someone who now has power he didn't just
a short time ago. I think that the evolution of the character
will involve what he does with the power he now has. Remember
he kept repeating "Don't tell me what I can't do."
which on the good side could indicate a strong drive to perform,
on the bad side could be taken to an extreme if Locke is threatened
with losing what he now has. Why is he helping everyone out? To
make them need him? Just because he can? I don't think we know
for sure yet. I mentioned that I thought of Forbidden Planet with
this series and that sci fi movie is about the power of the mind
and how it can be used for good but can also turn upon itself
when the mind gives into doubt and despair. Lost is a new enough
series that we can start to argue on about where it's going, which
is a good thing.
[> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa" Intention
and results -- Rufus, 02:44:39 10/25/04 Mon
But, Jack s side definitely looks more attractive after Sawyer
actually goes through with it, shooting at the man s heart with
his last bullet (how poetic). Unfortunately, he misses, and instead
collapses the guy s lung, guaranteeing him a slow, painful death.
So, now that the situation has changed and death is completely
inevitable, Jack decides that ending the man s pain takes precedence
over saving his life, and he finishes the job himself. Take that,
Kant.
The Marshal represents law in it's most rigid form. He had a fugitive
to catch, and that's what he did, no considering who that person
was or even if they did it. The Marshal did his job, was he a
good man?
In the flashbacks we get to see that Kate saved the Marshal from
a swift death instead of doing away with him right off. She is
conflicted over what to do. The man is dying and he knows stuff
about her that would colour how the others would see her forever.
The Marshal is dying, and here comes the worst choice anyone has
had to make up to that point. Kill the man and put him out of
his and everyone else's misery, or let him die feeling a mixture
of pity and resentment over being forced to listen to his cries.
Intention, everyone does things with the intent to get some sort
of result. Kate would get rid of someone who could tell everyone
who she has been, or if you look at her past possibly she could
wish him dead out of mercy. Then there is Jack who as a doctor
has sworn to do the best for his patients. He knows the Marshal
is a goner but he just ccouldn't kill him. Then there is Sawyer,
the guy of action, he does what he thinks should have been done,
except for one thing, instead of the Marshal dying, he is doomed
to suffer exponentionally to the amount of bullshit Sawyer spews.
Sawyer didn't have the best intentions as much as he sought out
the most convenient one. Funny how things seem to work out in
a way that complements the intentions of the person trying to
do something or wishes for something. Hmmmmmmmmm.
[> [> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa"
Intention and results -- Evan, 15:45:26 10/25/04 Mon
I'm not sure if the marshal just did his job without considering
her as a person. There were a few interesting lines of dialogue.
On the plane he said something like "Maybe they'll actually
believe your story, Kate. I sure did." And, to Jack, he says
"No matter how she makes you feel, don't trust her".
It sounds to me like he got involved with her on a more personal
level than just doing his job. I'm sure we'll find out more about
it later, in the next Kate-centric episode (should be about...
say, 14 or so away.) :)
Your comment about how the outcome is in line with the person
who really had something to gain from it was interesting. I wonder
how much we can attribute to the island, though, and how much
is just the writers trying to make the stories interesting.
[> [> [> Re: Lost -Episode 102 - "Tabula Rasa"
Intention and results -- Rufus, 17:10:37 10/26/04 Tue
Your comment about how the outcome is in line with the person
who really had something to gain from it was interesting. I wonder
how much we can attribute to the island, though, and how much
is just the writers trying to make the stories interesting.
It's always about making the story interesting...;)
Now to Lost as a series. Look at how many genre shows have bitten
the dust, like Angel. If you want reality TV it's all over the
place and I think it will burn itself out after a time. Scripted
TV, shows with a story to tell over a period of time like Angel,
Firefly, Wonderfalls, and Tru Calling may not be a fav choice
of the networks but look at just how many people are tuning out
the major networks. The success of Lost shows to me that people
are willing to follow a story arc, if only the networks would
forget about the immediate profit and realize that flashes in
the pan evaporate and what will be left when the Reality craze
has subsided?
[> [> Buffy's "Tabula Rasa" and Lost's "Tabula
Rasa" -- Cleanthes,
16:19:45 10/25/04 Mon
Funny how things seem to work out in a way that complements
the intentions of the person trying to do something or wishes
for something.
In 6th season BUFFY, Willow casts a spell and everyone forgets
who they are. A Tabula Rasa results where everyone must invent
their own lives without input from the known past, but in line
with their personalities.
LOST, the TV show, is this concept writ large every week. So when
they have an episode by the title, it's to let us know that everyone
focuses on losing and what's lost and what's to gain by losing.
On BUFFY, the `Tabula Rasa` allowed everyone an insight into what
they wanted as a baseline impulse. If they did it without memory,
then that was inherent to them, for sure.
On LOST, the whole concept of `Tabula Rasa` underlies everything
everyone does. Were I to land on an uncharted Pacific
Island, I would spend my time worrying about my absent wife and
kids. Notice that none of the LOST principals have really significant
others that weren't with them on the flight. Yeah, Jack has his
mother and the rich brother-sister (Shannon & Boone) probably
have parents of some importance to them, and we don't yet know
of Hurley's connections (the fat fella). Still, not one of the
main characters have worried much about anyone not on the plane.
Sure, they all want rescue and expect rescue, but they none of
them need rescue.
BUFFY's `Tabula Rasa` played a game with the personalities of
the major characters. Buffy's basal state WAS Joan. Spike's WAS
Randy. Wasn't that fun? However, that was what they needed to
run towards. On LOST, people run away from the distorted
people they apparently were prior to the crash.
Originally, I intended to write more philosophically about the
'tabula rasa' concept and its opposite, anamnesis. Nurture vs.
nature, as this is usually argued. But, to do that, I had to reread
Plato's `Meno` and while I did that over on Perseus, I bogged
down. Is this really an either/or thing? Babies learn a lot of
new-to-them stuff. They are a tabula rasa, as the philosopher
Locke put it. (and don't y'all just love a show with the philosophical
savvy to have a character named Locke who has every reason in
the world [apparently] to embrace a clean slate?} But, they wouldn't
learn anything if they had no framework for learning (the DNA's
predisposition to knowledge with survival value in contemporary
usage, or drawing on the anamnesis from Plato's perspective).
Is this all a false dichotomy? I think it's an unanswerable philosophical
question of the sort Kant addresses in the first Critique. Which
means that only art can make headway.
Bring it on!
Lost: Speculation on time
frame (SPOILERS for all eps up to White Rabbit) -- dub, 18:42:51
10/24/04 Sun
In Walkabout we learn that Locke has been paralyzed for four years.
In White Rabbit, when Kate throws herself on top of Sawyer, he
says he made this birthday wish "four years ago." A
very strange thing to say, it seems.
Was there any mention in Tabula Rasa of how long Kate had been
running from the law? I guess it's possible it's been four years.
Maybe Jin and Sun have been married for four years?
And maybe Walt and his mother had been in Australia for four years?
I'm just making guesses now, but Abrams says nothing in this show
is random.
And of course, what was four years ago? The Year 2000. The year
most of the world considers to be the Millennium.
Dang, I'm lovin' this show!
dub ;o)
Replies:
[> do the math -- ravenhair...steps out briefly, 00:12:42
10/26/04 Tue
The french SOS message has been playing over the radio for sixteen
years. Sixteen is a multiple of four.
Look at that, I can count!
[> [> Sixteen is four squared -- dub ;o), 15:20:31
10/26/04 Tue
So four is the square root of 16.
There were originally 48 survivors; 48 = 4 X 12 (don't know if
that has any significance or not...)
Does the Golden Mean fit into this anywhere?
Woo-hoo, I love this stuff!!
;o)
[> [> [> Re: Sixteen is four squared -- OnM, 12:18:10
10/27/04 Wed
Interestingly, this 'math is the language of the universe' bit
reminds me of a recent Joan of Arcadia ep, where God mentions
to Joan something about (paraphrasing) "the subatomic structure
of the universe didn't have to be made the way it is, but
it was more elegant this way."
[> Re: Lost: Speculation on time frame (SPOILERS for all
eps up to White Rabbit) -- Evan, 19:11:59 10/24/04 Sun
When I first saw it I interpreted the line as: "Now this
is a birthday wish I've been waiting for years for", not
"Now this is a birthday wish I've been waiting 4 years for"...
but I haven't rewatched it yet, so I'm not sure.
[> [> Time to check the closed captions, folks! --
OnM, 21:19:35 10/24/04 Sun
[> [> [> IT IS FOUR YEARS!!! -- Evan, 17:26:19
10/25/04 Mon
Wow... what an odd thing to say. I wonder what's going on.
[> [> [> [> Whoa! Where did you find the closed
caption? -- dub, 19:03:31 10/25/04 Mon
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Whoa! Where did you find
the closed caption? -- LadyStarlight, 18:10:01 10/26/04
Tue
If your tv works like our old one did, there's a little button
on the remote to turn it on. If not that, it might be a menu option,
or if you're taping it, there might be an option for that on your
VCR.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Whoops--Old, old tv...
-- dub ;o), 17:19:57 10/27/04 Wed
HAH-ha-ha-ha-ha!! My TV is over 20 years old! It didn't come with
a remote! (But it's a darn good, solid state RCA TV and the picture
is still brilliant, so I'm not complaining...)
I'll check and see if I can do something with the VCR when I program
it to record.
Thanks!
;o)
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Whoops--Old,
old tv... -- LadyStarlight, 19:48:24 10/27/04 Wed
Hmm, no remote... You might check out Radio Shack or Circuit City
and ask them if a universal remote would work with your TV and
if a universal remote has a CC option.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> i don't think that
will work -- anom, 21:25:02 10/27/04 Wed
If your TV is that old, it might just not have closed-caption
capability built in--but I don't know when TV sets were 1st manufactured
with it. I'm pretty sure the VCR will have it in the signal it
recorded, but if there's no way to set your TV to display it,
you'll have to go visit a friend & play it on their (newer) TV.
I'm sure OnM will tell us if I don't know what I'm talking about....
Hi all -- Angel's Watcher,
12:38:30 10/25/04 Mon
I never knew about this board until someone mentioned on the ASSB.
I hang out over there and on Cross and Stake a lot as Angel's
Watcher. *waves to any fellow boardies here*
I only started watching Buffy after cancellation and came into
Angel during season 4. I've read most but not all the novels though
I still have at least one ep to watch if not two. I'm from Indiana,
but living in Illinois, 23yrs old and sort of trying to get through
college or get back into college more accurately.
What's the cats thing about? I have cats hehe. Umm...It's not
related to Clem and Spike and kitten poker, is it? Sorry, had
ask lol.
*perks* chocolate covered characters? Two of my favorite things....yumyumyum!
Replies:
[> Hello -- Tchaikovsky, 12:52:51 10/25/04 Mon
Welcome!
Well I've been here more than two years now, and I'm still not
entirely sure I fully understand the Evil demon Canadians, with
cats and chocolate and Clem. Just nod knowingly and refer to them
occasionally, and I'm sure you'll be accepted. ;-)
TCH
[> [> We are are the "CDCW" you don't have
to understand us, just worship us...;) -- Rufus, 16:53:36
10/26/04 Tue
The fans of the shows Buffy and Angel tend to like certain things
like chocolate and cats. We got recognition when they introduced
the tragic figure of Miss Kitty Fantastico who was taken before
her time by an errant arrow shot by Dawn in season seven.
The Canadian Demon Cat Worshippers was created by OnM who has
to worship cats from afar (allergy issues). Welcome and take a
stroll through the archives and the main site.
[> [> [> The Magic Arrow -- Arethusa, 06:53:08
10/27/04 Wed
While not an official member of the Dawn Defense League, I would
like to point out that your presumption of Dawn's guilt is premature.
According to the evidence, we can only confidently state that
Dawn shot the arrow, but we have no documented proof that the
arrow hit its target. I would like to postulate that the arrow
merely frightened Miss Kitty Fantastico, who in her totally unwarrented
and frankly prejudiced panic, bolted from the court's jurisdiction,
never to return.
There is no body, no documented evidence, no *clear* confession.
And the crime scene technitions have proven beyond a shadow of
a doubt that the arrow would have had to travel THROUGH the couch
and around the corner of the living room to the dining room, where
the alleged victim rested while visiting the alleged perpetrator.
Therefore we can only concluded that while there is a statement
from the suspect that might be misconstrued as a confession, it
is merely evidence of the overscrupulous conscience of the suspect,
not a confession of guilt.
[> [> [> [> Re: The Magic Arrow -- ZachsMind,
07:08:31 10/27/04 Wed
Kitty Fantastico was mentioned twice in season four, the last
time being on Yoko Factor. The last time we actually saw Miss
Kitty was in a dream sequence in Restless, season four, but she
wasn't mentioned again until "End of Days" in season
seven:
DAWN
Xander, my crossbow is not out here. I told you, I don't leave
crossbows around all willy-nilly. (pauses guiltily) Not since
that time with Miss Kitty Fantastico.
So on the surface it appears Dawn is incrimiating herself, but
there's no insinuation that Dawn's crossbow bolt actually killed
Miss Kitty. Dawn's description indicates she left the cross bow
"around all willy-nilly" which means Kitty Fantastico
came across the crossbow, and must have triggered it to hit something
else. So Kitty was safe in that particular instance. Something
else was damaged or harmed, because secretly Kitty Fantastico
was a nasty mofo with a crossbow.
In season six during a poker game among demons we learned that
Clem and some other demons enjoyed eating kittens, and also used
them as currency. Of those demons who we learned had such motivation
to kill kittens, Clem was the only one with easy access to Kitty
Fantastico. He had the motive and the opportunity. Clem ate Kitty
Fantastico late in season six. She put up a good fight though,
if that's any consolation to the Kitty Fantastico fans out there.
[> [> [> Actually, Dawn didn't kill Kitty.. --
ZachsMind, 06:53:26 10/27/04 Wed
Clem ate Kitty Fantastico. It's why he was hanging around so much
during season six. Yes, Clem was the greatest villian Buffy and
Willow ever faced, because he snuck in undetected, committed his
evil act, and was never suspected or caught. Clem is dah bomb.
[> [> [> [> Ahem...Clem as feminist hero --
[duck], 08:54:22 10/27/04 Wed
Clem, the greatest feminist action hero on the series I think.
Ahem, he ate...kitties.
That is why Spike was drawn to him. Spike was jealous of his ...abilities.
Skin folds are good for...gripping.
Clem really won the ...girl.
ME can be wonderful in their use of metaphor sometimes.
I will stop now.
[> [> [> [> Re: Actually, Dawn didn't kill Kitty..
-- Novabranch, 11:51:43 10/27/04 Wed
Hi everyone, I'm new here! I'm 18, just started uni, studying
english lit & philosophy,adore everything Buffy related yet sadly
I havnt managed to find any fellow students who share my love,
tho my philosophy lecturer introduced me to the idea of philosophy
in buffy so I looked it up and here I am! Love the whole 'kitty'
thing. I believe it is Spike who is responsible for the untimely
death/mysterious disapearance of the Kitty as in 'Tabula Rasa'
he did admit to owing particular shark people a LOT of cute little
kitties!
[> [> [> [> [> Welcome -- Masquerade, 16:30:03
10/27/04 Wed
Who is this professor??
We have some college students here.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Welcome -- Novabranch,
01:28:50 10/28/04 Thu
Who is my professor? His name is Mark Rowlands, He wrote a book
called 'The philosopher at the end of the universe: philosophy
explained through science fiction'. At the next opportunity I
have I will let him know about this site if he doesn't know already!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Welcome --
Masq, 11:45:55 10/28/04 Thu
Cool. Tell him an ex-philosophy professor wrote it. ; )
[> [> [> [> [> Welcome, Novabranch -- Arethusa,
12:27:51 10/28/04 Thu
Fortunately for the cat, I think that by the time Spike got into
debt Miss Kitty would already be too old to qualify as a kitty.
The shark guy seemed to prefer tender young felines, although
that might be considered an unsupported supposition. ;)
[> [> [> [> From "End of Days" --
Rufus, 11:43:30 10/28/04 Thu
DAWN: Xander, my crossbow is not out here. I told you,
I don't leave crossbows around all willy-nilly. (pauses guiltily)
Not since that time with Miss Kitty Fantastico.
So, what are you saying, Dawn loaded the crossbow and Spike or
Clem licked the arrow? (my pathetic attempt at a cake batter metaphor)....;)
[> [> [> [> [> Re: From "End of Days"
-- q 3, 22:25:26 10/28/04 Thu
Dawn left her crossbow lying about, unsupervised. Clem found the
crossbow and started to play with it, accidentally shot himself
in the arm, and was so upset by the incident that he ate Miss
Kitty Fantastico without realizing what he was doing. Upon coming
to his senses, he guiltily left the crossbow near the kitty bones
and vowed to get out of town before Buffy found out about it.
Dawn, of course, assumed that Hellmouth energies had temporarily
turned the crossbow into a vile kitty-devouring monstrosity.
Angel, Season 2 eps 19-22
-- Masq, 07:31:03 10/25/04 Mon
Intro thoughts on Pylea
If there was one thing I thought was utterly predictable, it was
a Whedonesque seasonal arc. Little bad, big bad, defeat of the
big bad, end of season. O.K., maybe there might not be a little
bad, but the rest of it? I'm not sure why I had such absolute
faith that that would happen in AtS Season 2. After all, Angel
didn't defeat the "big bad" of Season 1. Wolfram and
Hart and each of its little minions were still around when the
curtain closed on that season. Still, expectations die hard, and
I was all prepped for a big final confrontation between Angel
and Darla in the final episodes of Season 2, and instead we wandered
off into a hell dimension and got a lame story line with melodramatic
medievalism, belly-dancing dresses and "cows".
But it wasn't evident at first that the entire rest of the season
was going to be taken up by that tangent (if you were unspoiled,
anyway). When "Belonging" aired I figured it was just
a stand-alone to give us more background about the Host, and that
the last three episodes would be arcy. Then Cordelia got sucked
into a hell dimension. "Well OK," I thought, "they'll
go in, get her out and then get to the arc in the final two episodes."
But at the end of Episode 20 they were still friggin' there!!
I went over to www.cityofangel.com at that point, and I remember
that they didn't have the title "There's No Place Like Plrtz
Glrb" for the final episode of the season. They had some
other title. And the little picture that was beside the episode
title was simply the AtS logo, with the Los Angeles skyline. And
so I held out hope that they would be back in L.A. wrapping up
the Angel/Darla story line in the final episode. Which of course
didn't happen.
Years later, I would decide this bizarre inability to defeat the
seasonal big bad in the final episodes of Seasons 1 and 2 was
actually in AtS' favor. Unlike that *scoff* other show,
the superior AtS didn't succumb to predictable seasonal
arc patterns--and even when they did, Holtz was no black-and-white
bad guy and neither was Jasmine.
Seriously, though, in retrospect, I wouldn't have traded the Angel/Darla
interaction in early Season 3 for a cooler season 2 ending.
But at the time? I was like, Pylea? WTF? Are they asking
to have this show cancelled?
Belonging
As I understand it, the Pylean arc was planned and written when
Julie Benz was unable to come in and finish season 2. M.E. needed
some way to fill out the rest of the season, and they did it by
creating a metaphorical landscape in which they could explore
each member of the Fang Gang. The gang travels into Pylea and
the dimension transforms each of them becomes something different
(and yet personally significant) than s/he was on Earth.
Being in Pylea actually physically transforms Angel so
that his human and demon sides become more clearly differentiated.
The laws and prophecies of Pylea turn Cordelia into a princess.
The rebel outlaws of Pylea make Wesley their general. Lorne, the
flamboyant demon hiding under hats among humans back home, becomes
just another face in the crowd in Pylea. And Gunn? Well, it's
telling that Gunn seems the one exception to all these transformations.
In Pylea, he's just one of Wesley's soldiers--the "muscle"
and an antagonistic advisor. Which actually might be a
transformation--into less than he is on Earth.
"Belonging" sets up the transformations to come by exploring
each of the characters' lives as they are on Earth.
We see Wesley talking to the critical father who takes every success
his son achieves and turns it into a failure. He is the source
of all Wesley's awkward self-doubt and bullying: I am the pathetic
shadow of a man that my father made me, except sometimes I am
simply my father.
Overhearing this conversation was like a promissory note--that
someday we'd get full, real story behind Wesley's childhood. Do
you think we did? Did Lineage fulfill that promise or just raise
more questions?
At any rate, Wesley doubts his leadership abilities, so that's
what will be explored in Pylea.
Cordelia gets an acting job that makes her feel worse about herself
than better. Stardom was that thing that was supposed to surround
her with appreciative, sycophantic fans like she had in high school.
And of course, M.E. is starting to make the visions more and more
painful for her, so that she questions her role in Angel's mission.
Is it really worth the trouble?
Gunn gets caught up in divided loyalties (to which I can only
say, it's about time they explored this). When his old friends
need his help, he is called to duty by his new friends and can't
be there for the old friends, and then, one of his old friends
dies.
And when Caritas is attacked by a Pylean Drokken, the Host (as
we called him then) comes to the gang to get help chasing down
the beast, but he fails to mention the connection to the home
dimension he just wants to forget.
And Angel... well, Angel's mostly about his need to feel like
a champion again after a season of descending into pesky moral
ambiguities. But it's hard to feel like a 100% good guy when you
have a demon inside you-- a demon who plays significant role in
your ability to BE a champion.
Over The Rainbow
So Cordelia gets sucked into a hell dimension, forcing "Lorne"
to 'fess up about Pylea. Angel, as champion and friend, of course
immediately wants to hop dimensions and save her. Wesley works
on trying to find a way there, but Gunn and Lorne are less than
eager.
Gunn is feeling the tug of divided loyalties. George is dead and
Gunn, who has been off playing detective with his new "family"
all season, suddenly feels that things could have been different
if he hadn't "abandoned" his old gang. In "This
Old Gang of Mine" Rondell will say Gunn left the old gang
because it was a reminder of the mistakes he made that resulted
in losing his sister. I suppose that works as well as anything,
but here in season 2, Gunn is realizing you can make mistakes
that result in death no matter who you're working with. At any
rate, he is feeling guilty about abandoning his friends and doesn't
want to go to Pylea if the trip there might prove to be one-way.
Lorne of course doesn't want to go to Pylea at all. He hated growing
up there and who can blame him. He may be green and horny like
every other Deathwok, but he doesn't fit in among his own. He
blossoms like a flower on Earth, an alien dimension. Who would
want to go home to the most alien creatures of all--his own family?
The irony is that the event that gave Lorne the opportunity to
find a new home is probably what trapped Fred in his old home.
The date of both cross-overs (5 years) can't be a coincidence.
So I'm thinking that either Fred opened the Caritas portal from
the library on the other side L.A. before or at the same time
she opened the portal in the library, or maybe she inadvertently
opened Lorne's portal *from* Pylea after she crossed over, trying
to get back home. But I think we're supposed to assume that Fred
opened the portal that gave Lorne his get-out-of-jail free card.
Anyway, Gunn eventually decides to go with Angel and Wesley to
Pylea, and I think it's because he realizes he can't do anything
for poor dead George, but that he would be making the same mistake
twice--abandoning a friend--if he doesn't try to help rescue Cordelia.
And Lorne is ordered to go to Pylea by his psychic friend (and
how cool AND hot was she in one five-minute appearance? Wish she
could have come back) to finally put to rest all those residual
family/origin issues he has.
So the guys gather in Angel's convertible and set a collision
course Paramount Studios. And both literally and symbolically,
they don't actually get inside the studio lot. Instead they end
up in Pylea. Let the transformations begin.
Through The Looking Glass
So yeah, I had problems with the Pylea thing. I mean, seriously.
So lame. M.E. is writing a fairy tale and you get the over-the-top
melodramatics that go along with it. The beautiful princess. The
handsome, earnest hero. Castles. Scary monsters. Evil priests.
Damsels in distress. Important Lessons To Be Learned By ALL. I
was sitting watching loyally, but my heart was back in L.A. wanting
Angel/Darla angst. And if I had actually remembered to ask, "Why
do these human-hating demons from another dimension speak English?"
I would have blown a gasket. Luckily, I forgot.
Anyway, time heals all wounds I've found, especially in my roller-coastery
love-hate relationship with My Show, and now I can appreciate
Pylea, even if I still feel a bit manipulated by it.
Like Cordelia-- who, on the surface, has been given back everything
she ever lost and then some--she's the Queen again, with doting
minions and the gorgeous fawning date. But underneath it all,
it's a sham. The real powers of Pylea want something from her--her
visions. Well, of course they do! Because Cordelia must learn
to appreciate her painful visions, and the way to do that
is to threaten to take them away (through, ironically, an act
of pleasure).
Meanwhile, the Host has to deal with family issues. Though his
cousin seems fairly open-minded, Mom is a bearded bitca. I kind
of liked that Lorne got to have his *own* issues, albeit briefly,
issues he had to DEAL with. Even when he suffered the loss of
his business in season 3, we never saw him grow much from that.
He just went right back to being Angel's helpful side-kick-in-the-pants.
Changing diapers instead of reading auras.
Angel's transformations in Pylea were perhaps the most interesting
ones. At first, he is merely transformed into a celebrity. The
broody, no-personality, lawyer-torturing dork is someone to be
*admired* among the Deathwok. But that doesn't last long. Angel
isn't going to stand by and soak up the praise when there's damsels
to save. And there is another transformation awaiting him.
Turning into the Angel-beast. This raised some seriously
sticky metaphysical issues. Angel goes from near human, standing
in the sunlight, seeing his own reflection, to a dumb, mindless
beast that doesn't even recognize his own friends. Wesley explained
this as the separation of his human and demon sides "being
more pronounced in Pylea". If *that* didn't put fans in an
uproar. Because if the vampire demon is in its purest form a dumb,
mindless beast, then how is Angelus Angel's demon?
The answer: Angelus is *not* the demon, never was. Which means
that the true evil of Angel(us)--and indeed, all vampires--is
not the blood lust that fuels his fire, but the HUMAN in him.
The unique monster that is Angelus is just Liam himself sans soul,
his dark side-- his hatreds, fears, angers, ISSUES, fed by blood
lust and unrestrained by conscience.
Of course, that's not the Important Lesson Angel learns in Pylea.
The Important Lesson he learns is that "he is not the beast"--that
the beast is something IN him, but not OF him. This is supposed
to provide a resolution to his season 2 "struggle against
darkness" story line, as he learns he is in control of the
source of that darkness. Except--in the process of differentiating
Angel from his inner beast, Mutant Enemy proved that the worst
parts of Angel were from his human side (not that he can't control
that as well, but ME sort of missed the metaphorical mark).
"Through the Looking Glass" ends with Lorne beheaded.
Many of us genuinely believed that that was the end for his character.
He was introduced in Season 2, so it made a certain amount of
sense that he would be gone in Season 2 as well. After all, he
wasn't part of the gang. And Joss had made a habit of randomly
killing off well-liked characters--Jenny, Principal Snyder, Doyle,
Joyce. There was no reason *not* to believe Lorne was dead. So
for a week, we mourned.
There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb
In the midst of all these transformations altering and yet revealing
familiar aspects of well-established characters, there was a peculiar,
spazzy new face who I rather liked at the time, Fred.
Pylea had also transformed Fred--from an intelligent young woman
on her way to becoming a physicist, into a slave with virtually
no self-identity. She'd forgotten her name, forgotten how to laugh.
And yet, she had a strength in Pylea she seemed to lose once she
got back in L.A.
The girl who survived as a fugitive and rolled the bad guys into
the Drokken gully became the girl on the pedestal in season 3,
there to incite Wesley's slow path into alienation. And just as
she was getting kind of strong again in Season 5, well-- What's
the point of saving and slowly re-empowering a regular character
when you're just going to slaughter her like a cow a few years
later?? I love Joss, I love his shows, but I got so tired of him
killing somebody whenever he ran out of ideas about how to up
the drama quotient.
So I'll move on. To Wesley. Wesley and Gunn's run-in with the
(wooden, melodramatic) human rebels of Pylea results in Wesley
being made their General. Why? Because he has a plan. Well, a
better plan than the rebels have been able to come up with. Of
course, that plan involves sacrificing some men in a diversion
so that others can launch a sneak attack, but this is vintage
Wesley. He would have sacrificed Willow in "Choices"
to stop the Mayor. He tried to sacrifice himself in AtS season
4 to stop Angelus. He sacrifices Angel in Pylea by asking him
to fight the Groosalug. Want to win the game? Sacrifice a pawn.
Or a knight. Or the king.
Gunn is of course against all this. He doesn't like losing soldiers
in battle. But then, Gunn's soldiers are invariably his friends
and family, not random underlings. Not that Wesley ever let intimacy
with anyone get in the way of sacrificing them in the name of
The Greater Good.
So Gunn's journey to Pylea seems to have significance mostly in
the decision to go to Pylea in the first place. Once he's there,
he doesn't seem to have any personal journey of his own; he's
simply there to provide Wesley with another point of view that
Wesley then ignores. And in the end, Gunn participates in Wesley's
plan--after all, that's why he's there, to help. Oh, and Gunn
is also apparently there to explain the concept of "reconstruction
after a civil war". Because you really need a black guy to
explain that. And the Gang imparts an Important Lesson about how
all intelligent beings are created equal (whether the Pyleans
actually understand such a concept is another issue entirely).
Speaking of slavery--the priests have a machine to kill all the
slaves in their society? Does that make economic sense to *anyone*??
Anyway, Wesley gains confidence in himself by successfully overthrowing
the government, the bad guys are conquered, the slaves are freed,
and the handsome prince is put in charge of the kingdom and the
fugitive girl is rescued and taken back home.
And so we had the end of season 2, and the end of the back-to-back
BtVS and AtS every Tuesday night on the WB. I guess it was sort
of fitting, then, that as the dimensions were caving in on themselves
over on BtVS, the dimension that the AtS gang were in showed no
sign of this whatsoever, not even one stray anomalous dragon streaking
across a wound in the sky. I heard that they had planned
on having a dragon from BtVS cut across the sky in Pylea, but
decided the special effect was too expensive or something.
Despite my dislike for Pylean episodes, I was absolutely excited
about the return on the show for season 3. It didn't occur to
me that the show might not come back at all, even though that
spring had been the time of the Big Shake-up over Buffy leaving
the WB and moving over to UPN. I was blissfully ignorant of the
fight Joss had every spring to keep AtS on the air. Ignorance
was bliss.
Replies:
[> Re: Angel, Season 2 eps 19-22 -- OnM, 19:52:20
10/25/04 Mon
Something that had occurred to me at the time was that the Pylean
arc was intended by the PTB's to get Angel out of the way so that
Buffy could die over in Sunnydale, without possible interference.
Because, if Buffy doesn't die, her friends don't resurrect her.
If she isn't resurrected, then she never (ultimately) ends up
fighting the FE, wiping out his army of ubervamps and creating
the army of Slayers.
Long term planning, ya know?
[> [> Re: Angel, Season 2 eps 19-22 -- Masq, 05:02:14
10/26/04 Tue
Someone said something similar over in LJ. Was it you??
[> [> [> Uhmm, don't think so -- OnM, 12:05:47
10/27/04 Wed
I've never posted at LJ as other than my usual handle. Was this
just recently?
[> [> [> [> In the Pylean thread -- Masq, 12:13:04
10/27/04 Wed
I just don't recall who it was.
[> [> [> [> [> dlgood, apparently -- OnM,
16:14:24 10/27/04 Wed
Here 'tis, I think:
In any case, having Angel & crew trapped in Pylea provides a credible
explanation as to why:
1. No one in Sunnydale calls them for help in the dramatic showdown
with a god.
2. Cordelia doesn't have a vision of Buffy's death*.
* Though, in retrospect, one could imagine that this is something
Jasmine might not have wanted Angel involved with anyway.
[> Angel Seasonal Arc Structure -- Finn Mac Cool, 23:09:57
10/25/04 Mon
While it may not be quite as obvious as Buffy's seasonal arc structure,
I think Angel does have one of its own. It's most clearly demonstrated
in seasons 2-4, as the attempts of seasons 1 and 5 to be mostly
standalone altered the arc structure somewhat.
Setting Up The Characters: For the first few episodes of the season,
we get some standalone episodes that set up character arcs and/or
set the tone for the season. There are usually hints of the main
season story arc during this period (such as Darla dreams or Cordelia's
amnesia). "Judgement", AYNOHYEB, and "First Impressions"
for Season 2; "Heartthrob" - "Billy" for Season
3; and "Deep Down" through "Spin the Bottle"
for Season 4.
The Arc Cranks Into High Gear: This is where the arc story hinted
at during the earlier, stand alone episodes really takes center
stage. In Season 2 this lasts from "Untouched" (when
Angel finds out that Darla really is alive) to "Reunion"/"Redefintion"
when Angel let the lawyers die and burned Darla and Drusilla.
In Season 3 it starts with pregnant Darla returning until the
villains after Connor were killed. In Season 4 when it ends is
a little more vague, but I'd say "Long Day's Journey"
is the end of it ("Awakening" and "Soulless"
not having any real stuff happening with the Beast).
Breathing Space: Here we take a break from the arc heavy episodes
for a little bit before they start up again. While character development
might happen in this episode, the big events don't begin until
a little while later. In Season 2 it was Angel's time spent being
a loner in "Blood Money", "Happy Anniversary",
and "The Thin Dead Line". In Season Three it's the raising
Connor/changes in Cordelia's status quo time ("Provider",
"Waiting in the Wings", and "Couplet"). While
Season 4's heavy arc structure doesn't really allow this to fit
too well, it comes somewhat close with "Awakening" and
"Soulless", as, while Angel does lose his soul and there's
a big focus on the arc, not much actually happens with the Beast
(in fact, most of "Awakening" is a dream, and "Soulless"
is pretty much showing everyone's encounters with Angelus; it's
not till Calvary that the ball really gets rolling again).
The Arc Resumes: Here is where the arc begins to dominate once
more, and actually sort of wraps itself up for the most part.
In Season 2 this consists of the "Reprise"/"Epiphany"
two parter, where the conflict between Angel, Darla, and W&H takes
center stage, ending with Angel's isolation from the rest of his
gang seemingly mended. In Season 3 it's the trifecta of "Sleep
Tight"/"Loyalty"/"Forgiving", where Wesley
takes a permanent change and all the stuff with Holtz, Connor,
and Sahijan is pretty much ended (while a lot of good stuff would
have been lost, they could have easily ended the whole story there).
And in Season 4 we get "Calvary" followed by the Faith
three parter, in which the Beast is killed and Angel's soul is
restored, and, except for Cordelia's progeny, everything seems
pretty much copesthetic.
Breathing Space Part II: Here we get one or two episodes worth
of relaxation, as the big stuff is seemingly wrapped up. "Disharmony"/"Dead
End", "Double or Nothing", "Players",
all particularly jarring lapses back into stand alones after the
arciness that preceded them. Of course, that's just to warm us
up for . . .
The Final Arc: At the end of each season we get four or five episodes
that take a very unusual turn. It all begins with an episode that
seems normal enough (dealing with a demon trespassing from another
dimension, stopping a bunch of invading worms, or Angel going
after a pregnant Cordelia (which, given how arcy Season 4 was,
was comparatively normal)), but then we get a surprise at the
last second: Cordelia gets sucked into another dimension, Connor
(grown into his teens) bursts into the Hyperion, Cordelia gives
birth to a beautiful, hypnotic goddess. This then leads into the
last few episodes which are all pretty much one single story,
with very good ep-to-ep cohesiveness, and are very distinct from
the rest of the season. Everyone can see how different the Pylea
arc was, but a teenage Connor trying to kill/get to know his father
was also pretty different than earlier Season 3, and Jasmine's
reign was quite different from the fire and darkness, unholy destruction
that the Beast wreaked in Season 4. This 4 or 5 episode arc wraps
itself ep by the final episode . . . but with one intriguing cliffhanger
left.
The Cliffhanger: As a matter of fact, every season of Angel has
ended on a cliffhanger. The revelation that Darla was resurrected,
Willow telling Angel about Buffy's death, Connor sending Angel
to the bottom of the sea, the gang taking over Wolfram & Hart,
and what's left of our heroes preparing to fight a horde of demons
in an alley.
The Victory-That-Isn't: Every season of Angel also, mid-way through,
features what I think of as a victory-that-isn't: something that
on the surface seems like a win for the good guys, but it comes
with a horrible price. The top Wolfram & Hart lawyers may be dead,
and Darla and Drusilla wounded, but Angel had to cross a moral
line and alienate himself from his support group to do it. Holtz,
Sahijhan, and W&H are no longer after Connor, but only because
he's been sent through a portal to a hell dimension, seemingly
never to return. And then there's the death of the Beast a restoration
of sunlight: that only comes about because Angelus is free, not
to mention it's at the same time that we find out Cordelia's carrying
a little bundle of joy.
I just felt the need to point out, that while Angel certainly
didn't adhere to the arc structure set up by Buffy (which is probably
a good thing; it was its own show, afterall), it did develop a
seasonal layout of its own.
P.S. You can apply the structure I've laid out above to Seasons
1 and 5, it is a little more difficult due to their tendency for
standalone episodes, and you have to bend the rules a little.
[> [> Re: Angel Seasonal Arc Structure -- Rob, 00:11:26
10/26/04 Tue
This 4 or 5 episode arc wraps itself ep by the final episode
. . . but with one intriguing cliffhanger left.
The only place I'd say this diverges a slight bit is S4, where
the major conflict of the last batch of episodes is resolved in
the next-to-last episode, whereas the last episode itself, like
Restless, resolves some issues that have been brewing for
the whole season, and sets up the next one.
Rob
[> [> [> Re: Angel Seasonal Arc Structure -- Terry,
17:21:38 10/29/04 Fri
Delurking here.Hi!
I don't think you should include S5 in the 'continuity' of ATS.It
was a brand new show(Whedon's word).'Chosen' was,in part,the pilot
of this new show(Angel was sooo out of character!It was like watching
BTVS Angel.) and the first ep was,clearly,a complete cut with
what had happened before.
Forgotten characters(Cordy in a coma,Connor in 'another life',Lilah
dead),Spike and ,of course,the mindwipe(How convenient!)And it
was difficult to recognize the(remaining) characters I watched
for four years....Entertaining,sure,(some cool moments,some great
episodes...)but,well,a different show.
Hum,IMHO,ATS ended with 'Home'.
They tried to reconnect a little in the second part of the season,but
too many incoherencies,too many change in the characters,too many
standalones...it was not believable.
PS;Can I suggest a title?"Angel and Spike do W&H!Season
1"
[> [> [> [> Whether you like it or not is your
own subjective decision... -- Rob, 14:49:49 11/01/04 Mon
...but it certainly was intended to be part of the continuity
of the series, or it never would have been produced. Angel was
just as out of character on Buffy as Willow was in the
fourth season of Angel. It tends to be a problem for crossover
characters. That doesn't and shouldn't, IMO, discredit the validity
of Angel's fifth season. Angel taking over Wolfram and
Hart is a huge turn for the show, but it is also a logical twist,
since W&H had always been the Big Bad the gang had been fighting
since the very first episode. I actually rate the fifth season
of Angel as one of my favorites. It was IMO certainly the
most consistent season.
Rob
[> Re: Angel, Season 2 eps 19-22 -- Mr. Bananagrabber,
08:43:47 10/26/04 Tue
Nice write-up.
The celebration dinner scene in "Belonging" is one of
my favorite scenes of the early seasons of Ats. The sequence has
such a nice relaxed & playful atmosphere among the Fang Gang which
is something you don't get to see too much in Ats with it's commitment
to huge action melodrama at all costs. Plus, Angel being cheap
always cracks me up.
Oh, I would bet good money that the show was considering Lorne's
pyschic friend as a potential recurring caharcter. The scene is
as much about her point of view as Lorne's which is pretty good
hint that she may have been meant for bigger things. Ats seems
to like to try out characters before deciding on how big a part
they will play on the show with Gwen Raiden being maybe the ultimate
example. At first, she seems like a major player perhaps love
interest for Angel but ultimately she's used as just another valiant
effort to fix the problems with Gunn's character. Shame as I thought
she could have been a great romantic foil for the big guy.
[> [> Re: Angel, Season 2 eps 19-22 -- Masq, 13:22:52
10/26/04 Tue
It's all about actor availability and fan reaction, I suppose.
One thing I discovered about the actress who played Aggie the
psychic (Lorne's friend) is that she also played one of the locker
room girls in "Welcome to the Hellmouth" ("Aphrodisia")
[> [> [> Or DB's astonishingly unstoppable tendency
on AtS... -- KdS, 14:43:35 10/26/04 Tue
To have tons of sexual chemistry with people he "shouldn't",
and zero with people he "should".
[> [> [> [> Except Darla -- Masq, 11:33:10
10/30/04 Sat
Or maybe that was Angelus who had chemistry with Darla, rather
than Angel.
[> [> [> [> [> Yeah, but it wasn't exactly meant
to be a happy and healthy relationship ;-) -- KdS, 14:06:18
10/30/04 Sat
[> I've always loved the Pylea arc.... -- Angel's Watcher,
from ASSB and BC&S, 12:33:14 10/25/04 Mon
Not sure why, but it's always been one of my favorites and I thought
it was pretty good, having them go into another world like that.
Maybe The Wish was actually somewhat better, but I've always listed
the Pylea arc as among my favorite Angel eps.
Numfar! Do the dance of joy! *giggle* That's always one of the
funniest parts, too.
Now I'm depressed --
Cheryl, 13:14:55 10/25/04 Mon
After just reading last week a couple of articles about the WB
wanting to bring Angel back and getting my hopes just a little
with the possibility, I saw this on tvguide.com today:
SPEAKING OF BUFFY...: Gellar's former boss, Buffy mastermind
Joss Whedon, is getting out of the TV business at least for the
time being. According to Variety, Whedon has shuttered his Mutant
Enemy production company because he says he has run out of ideas.
"I spent a lot of time trying to think what my next series
would be," Whedon said. "I couldn't think of anything.
When that happens, it generally means something is just not working."
For now, Whedon will continue to focus on features including the
forthcoming Firefly flick, Serenity. What does all this mean for
the proposed Buffy cartoon? I'm told that remains on the drawing
board. http://www.tvguide.com/news/entertainment/
Let's hope it's a very temporary thing!
Here are the articles that talk about the WB wanting Angel back:
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/041021b.php
http://www2.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270355&obj_id=42759
Replies:
[> This means TV can't afford him. -NT -- ZachsMind,
08:33:07 10/26/04 Tue
notext
[> I find that hard to believe... -- Ames, 13:54:32
10/25/04 Mon
Joss Whedon "couldn't think of anything"??? If that's
not a misquote or a mistake, I'm sure he didn't mean to say it
that way. Someone as creative as Joss undoubtedly has hundreds
of ideas for new stories in his head at any time. But he might
not be able to work up the required degree of enthusiasm for any
of them at the moment, given recent events. Maybe success for
Serenity will recharge him.
[> [> I hope you're right! -- Cheryl, 14:56:14
10/25/04 Mon
[> [> Or at the very least not TV series ideas --
Finn Mac Cool, 15:27:07 10/25/04 Mon
He may have more ideas, but not necessarily ones that would work
best as a TV show. TV shows require a certain format, kind of
storytelling, and (if you plan on making a successful one) several
years worth of stories to tell. That's different than having no
story ideas whatsoever (Joss has already branched out into movies
and comic books).
[> [> [> pie in the sky -- Dead (and about to
be stoned) Soul, 22:05:15 10/25/04 Mon
I've always felt that [blasphemy]Minear and Greenwalt had a better
handle on AtS than Joss. Wouldn't it be a hoot if one or both
of them could take it over?[/blasphemy]
[> [> [> [> Oh, I get it now... -- Rob, 22:07:04
10/25/04 Mon
With the "pie in the sky" subject line, for a second
I thought you meant the other use of the term "stoned"!
My brain was making Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds connections.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [> You think too much, Rob --
Dead (and only wishing I were stoned) Soul, 22:26:08 10/25/04
Mon
'Swhy you're 'swonderful.
[> [> [> [> [> Me too Rob -- Ann always
looking for dessert, 05:13:36 10/26/04 Tue
and diamonds.
[> [> [> [> [> psst... DS has weed -- Pony,
07:11:54 10/26/04 Tue
My blasphemy is that I'd rather have Minear than Greenwalt for
anything AtS.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Narc! ;-) -- Rob, 13:47:59
10/26/04 Tue
[> [> [> [> Actually, from what I've heard . .
. -- Finn Mac Cool, 22:34:33 10/25/04 Mon
Greenwalt was pretty much the guy with the strongest influence
on Angel from day one, and Minear (and to a lesser extent Jeff
Bell) also began to gain considerable influence. While Joss did
maintain a certain level of influence and control, I'm pretty
sure I read an interview where he confirmed that a lot of the
stuff with Angel was done by Greenwalt and Minear. Of course,
Greenwalt left at the end of Season 3, and Tim Minear only wrote
one episode of Season 4, then he was gone, too. So thinking they
should continue it probably isn't too great an idea, as they were
the ones to leave.
[> [> [> [> [> But a girl can still dream
-- Dead (and dreaming) Soul, 22:39:33 10/25/04 Mon
Whedon 'salivating' for Faith
spin-off -- Abby, 01:59:55 10/26/04 Tue
Aintitcool has a lot of info from the 'high stakes' party Whedon
threw in LA.
" Joss said he is "salivating" to do a "Faith"
spinoff series if Eliza Dushku wants to. Dushku, who played the
angry slayer on "Buffy" and "Angel," recently
said publicly she believed Fox had finally cancelled her most
recent starring vehicle, "Tru Calling."
Just thought you'd all like to know
x
Replies:
[> I find it a little dubios given other quotes from more
reliable sources... -- Majin Gojira, 18:47:07 10/26/04
Tue
Namely how Joss is sticking to movies for a while since he's run
out of TV steam.
[> [> You might find it a little dubios given other quotes
from more reliable sources, but its not. -- Ender, 23:47:20
10/26/04 Tue
I was there, I heard him say it. Straight from the horse's mouth.
What he didn't mean was that they were going out to do it next
week. The question was to the effect of, "Since Eliza Dushku's
'Tru Calling' has been cancelled, would you want to give her a
Faith spin-off given the chance?" That's all, not rumor-
Joss actually said he would salivate at the chance.
[> [> [> Re: You might find it a little dubios given
other quotes from more reliable sources, but its not. -- El
Linchador, 14:28:11 10/30/04 Sat
Plus, Joss still is under contract with 20th Century Fox for development
of pilots/shows (another 3 years, I believe?). Obviously, that's
nothing set in stone either, but the opportunities are there.
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