[> Do not have cable. Will watch anyway. -- cjl, 11:45:52 10/18/04 Mon
A friend of mine is burning all four hours of Peacekeeper Wars onto a single DVD for my viewing pleasure. Near-total Farscape virgin here, but Rockne O'Bannon never let me down on Alien Nation or when he was the story editor for the 1980s Twilight Zone. I expect spectacular things from this miniseries, Rob!
But hey, no pressure.
[> [> You will get spectacular things, but prepare to be confused, too. ;-) -- Rob, 13:26:36 10/18/04 Mon
My friend, Justin, saw it with a bunch of friends who had never seen the show before. Every single one of them loved it, he told me, even though they had barely a clue what the hell was going on! ;-)
Rob
[> [> [> Re: You will get spectacular things, but prepare to be confused, too. ;-) -- dmw, 10:40:38 10/21/04 Thu
TiVo has my copy of the miniseries, but I haven't had time to watch them yet. I think they'll be great, but I'd also warn about confusion if you're starting Farscape with its finale.
AtPoLost - 1x01 Pilot (Part 1) (is this still OT?) -- Evan, 10:14:57 10/17/04 Sun
So, I know "Lost" is a pretty new show and has a lot of very "mainstream" elements to it. But so far it's been really well written and had much more depth of character than the average network drama and I'm betting/hoping that it will continue impressing us as the series goes on.
Basically, I'm really excited about the show. Irrationally excited, perhaps, as I'm grasping for something to believe in now that Buffy and Angel are finished... but, whatever. The point is, I've been watching it, enjoying it, and thinking about it a lot, and I decided to start writing Masq-inspired episode analyses to post to the board! I hope you're excited.
Here's my first one.
AtPoLost - Episode 1x01 - Pilot (Part 1)
i) Is there a doctor on board? :
The show begins on Jack, unconscious in the jungle. He is the perfect character to focus on at the start because he is both likeable and admirable, an easy hero to grasp on to. He wanders onto the beach where he finds what s left of his section of the plane and its passengers. He immediately takes on his role as the doctor and handles the situation as best as it can be handled. Boone, a lifeguard, is also trying to help, by performing CPR on somebody. But not everybody can handle trauma as well as Jack can, and Boone is doing a lousy job.
ii) The Situation:
Everyone has just survived a plane crash. They lived through those unbearable minutes where they all believed they were going to die. What goes through somebody s head at a time like that? Fear, of course. The worst possible kind of fear. Helplessness. Maybe a little bit of This can t be happening to me! Not to me!! ( Shannon?).
And afterwards?
Relief at being alive? No, I doubt it. Probably just confusion. And maybe some horror, due to all the dead bodies that are surrounding them. I imagine everyone on the island must have at least a little bit of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (if that s something that can be quantified). The show doesn t really deal with the more serious symptoms of this (at least, not yet). In general, people with PTSD avoid emotions/relations with others. The emotions they do feel are uncontrollable and intrusive. Our main characters well, perhaps they ve been chosen as the main characters because they re the ones who have responded differently. Instead of avoiding social relations, they ve sought them out.
iii) The Face:
Let me get back to the dead bodies. Horror wasn t quite the right word.
People exist, primarily, as social beings. We have these real needs for others in our lives, and all of our strongest feelings stem from our relations with others. We have these ideas about morality and how people deserve to be treated, and they seem to be undeniably true. But, unlike other types of facts, the best justification for what makes our moral ideas real, actual truths doesn t come out of any sort of logical or reasonable argument; it comes simply from gazing at the face of another person.
I don t know if I m really right about all this because I ve never been in the presence of more than one dead body at a time, but if I was surrounded by dead faces, I wouldn t only feel horror. I would feel an extremely strong, deep sense of... violation. The foundations of my existence as a human being would be threatened, as I would be forced to ignore my instincts towards these people... because they re not people anymore. They re corpses.
This (in my interpretation) is why some of these characters react not by isolating themselves, but by grasping onto the others who ARE still alive and trying to fulfill their need for... faces.
That s what I would do.
iv) Control: How much do we have?
Jack tells Kate (the person who he chooses to make a therapeutic connection, and possibly more, with) a story of a time early in his career that he was performing surgery on a young girl and he made a dangerous (not to mention messy) mistake. He got really scared. Someone s life was in his hands, and if that life was lost, it would be due to his mistake. Guilt (the thinking man s emotion) would come afterwards, but in the moment, what he felt was closer to fear. (Side note: In truth, these deep-rooted feelings I keep trying to describe are unnamable. Sorry for all the ultimately meaningless word-play). Jack let this fear take him over completely, counted to 5, and then he stopped feeling it. Just by making a choice. He completed the surgery and all was well.
Jack s story reminds me of an idea that, if I remember correctly, comes from Nietzsche. Imagine a man who throughout his life has acted cowardly. Is it in this man s NATURE to be a coward? Or has he chosen to be one? Well, Nietzsche says, imagine this: After a lifetime of cowardly behaviour, the man is put into another situation that calls for some bravery, and he comes through. And from that day forward, the man acts bravely instead. He goes from being a cowardly man to being a brave man, just by making changing the types of decisions he makes. If this situation is imagineably possible, Nietzsche says, if the man COULD have been acting bravely all his life, but didn t, then he must have been CHOOSING not to. This is basically the idea of existence before essence . First, we exist. Then we decide who we re gonna be. Nothing is predecided, nothing is insurmountable. We get to become whoever we think is the right person to become, if we choose to. Life s very meaning comes from making that choice. No matter what type of shit life throws at us, we get to decide how to react to it and how to feel about it. Our environment affects us only in the way that we choose for it to.
Jack, it would seem, is an existential genius. He scoffs at his Autonomic Nervous System and just turns the fear off, chooses not to feel it. This skill is one of the reasons why he is seemingly unaffected by their situation and so capable of jumping into the role of the leader who saves people s lives and goes out on quests to find tranceivers.
(Or maybe he buries himself in the doctor role because that s what feels familiar and comforting. And maybe he goes on quests to find tranceivers because he has a hero complex stemming from his deep and powerful need to meet the high expectations of his father... but that s just speculation).
Does Jack really have as much control over his essence as his story would suggest? I doubt it.
v) So what happens?:
Jack, Kate and the as-of-yet comic relief character, Charlie, the bassist of popular British band Drive Shaft , go on their quest to find the front part of the plane where they might find a radio to transmit an S.O.S. message and get their asses saved. What they find instead is the pilot, alive, who tells them that when they crashed, they were a thousand miles off course and nobody back home knows where the hell they are or has any way of finding them. Then, they get scared. Jack too, I bet. Then, their fear manifests itself physically and attacks them, leading to an exciting action sequence that ends with the bearer of bad news, the pilot, the source of their fear, the person who arguably got them into this, the man at fault... dead. REALLY REALLY dead.
Hmmmmmmmm.......
Evan.
Replies:
[> I'm excited! -- dub ;o), 11:06:57 10/17/04 Sun
Thanks for the analysis--great stuff. Probably more comment to follow, when I've digested it.
Scroll down a few posts and add your vote for Lost to appear at the top of the board.
;o)
[> Officially no longer OT -- Masq, 15:35:01 10/17/04 Sun
By popular demand. ; )
[> [> Thanks, Evan! -- Jane, 19:18:04 10/17/04 Sun
I too am fascinated by this show. It has some real potential for interesting philosophically framed questioning. Someone, I think over on LJ, has postulated that perhaps the island has some sort of wish fulfilling capabilities. mmm. Be careful what you wish for?
[> Re: AtPoLost - 1x01 Pilot (Part 1) Fear manifesting -- Seven, 19:39:34 10/17/04 Sun
"Then, their fear manifests itself physically and attacks them, leading to an exciting action sequence that ends with the bearer of bad news, the pilot, the source of their fear, the person who arguably got them into this, the man at fault... dead. REALLY REALLY dead."
Awsome analysis
This idea really goes along with what other posters have already mentioned. Namely, that the Island reacts physically to the thoughts or emotions or both of the people on the Island. I can' wait to see what is capable of happening.
However, is it a good idea to make the basis of the show mystical if it is to support Nietzsche's claim that we can will ourselves to be something?
[> [> Manifestations of fear -- dub, 14:58:30 10/18/04 Mon
It occurs to me that if JJ Abrams would only read this board, he could come up with one heck of a premise for his show (if it should turn out that our speculations aren't correct about the island manifesting the fears of the survivors). Anything else is going to seem like a bit of a let-down now!
;o)
[> [> [> Gaia Hypothosis speculation -- Ann, 15:30:10 10/18/04 Mon
aren't correct about the island manifesting the fears of the survivors
This sounds very Gaia-ian to me. Essentially "The Gaia Hypothesis proposes that our planet functions as a single organism that maintains conditions necessary for its survival." See http://www.oceansonline.com/gaiaho.htm for a more detailed explanation.
Somehow the island as a miniature Gaia and is controlling events on it to sustain itself and its habitat. Does this seem in keeping with all of the episodes so far? (I haven't seen them all.)
[> [> Re: AtPoLost - 1x01 Pilot (Part 1) Fear manifesting -- Evan, 16:19:42 10/18/04 Mon
"However, is it a good idea to make the basis of the show mystical if it is to support Nietzsche's claim that we can will ourselves to be something?"
I'm not sure yet if the show will support this claim. The most likely scenario is that the writers aren't really thinking about Nietzsche at all, really. I was just reminded of his philosophy by Jack's surgery story.
But... well, look at the Locke episode. I guess what Nietzsche's claim is (the way I described it) is that we have some sort of vision of how the world should be, and what our place in it is, and the decisions we make are always the ones that bring the world and ourselves closer to that idea. We try to make our projected future a reality by how we choose to act in the present. This mystical thing, whether it be some sort of entity, or more of just, like, a concept... a separate metaphysics that applies only to this part of the world... I don't think it inherently contradicts these claims, just makes them more literal and, well, more dangerous because of how much more individual control is needed, not only of our characters' actions, but of their ways of thinking.
[> READ THIS ONE INSTEAD! (if you want) -- Evan, 22:15:51 10/17/04 Sun
Alright, my original post was done essentially off the top of my head. I decided to rewatch the episode and add some details. I'll make sure not to do this again in the future!
AtPoLost - Episode 1x01 Pilot (Part 1)
i) Is there a doctor on board? :
The show begins on Jack, unconscious in the jungle. He is the perfect character to focus on at the start because he is both likeable (he gave up his first class seat to an old lady!) and admirable (a skilled doctor/surgeon), making him an easy hero to grasp on to. He wanders onto the beach where he finds what s left of his section of the plane and its passengers. He immediately into doctor mode and handles the situation as best as it can be handled. Boone, a lifeguard, is also trying to help by performing CPR on someone. But not everybody can handle trauma as well as Jack can, and Boone is doing a lousy job. He suggests doing one of those hole things, where you stick a pen in her throat . Jack is irritated, but humours him and sends him off to find some pens. When he returns, long after the woman has been resuscitated, Jack assures him that the pens are good and thanks him for his help. Make that likeable, admirable, and sensitive too.
ii) The Situation:
Everyone has just survived a plane crash. They lived through those unbearable minutes where they all believed they were going to die. What goes through somebody s head at a time like that? Fear, of course. The worst possible kind of fear. Helplessness. Maybe a little bit of This can t be happening to me! Not to me!! ( Shannon?).
And afterwards?
Relief at being alive? No, I doubt it. Probably just confusion. And maybe some horror, due to all the dead B-O-D-Y-S s that are surrounding them. I imagine everyone on the island must have at least a little bit of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (if that s something that can be quantified). The show doesn t really deal with the more serious symptoms of this (at least, not yet), although it can be seen a little bit in, for example, Boone s behaviour described above, or when Hurley looks at the flaming remains of the plane and points out calmly, The plane crashed .
In general, people with PTSD avoid emotions/relations with others. The emotions they do feel are uncontrollable and intrusive. Our main characters well perhaps they ve been chosen as the main characters because they re the ones who have responded differently. Instead of avoiding social relations, they ve sought them out.
iii) Hope, not yet lost:
Now that they re there, on the island, they have nothing much to do except wait for the rescue planes to show up. Shannon points out to Boone, her brother, that the plane had a black box so of course they ll be rescued (unfortunately, a black box is used to record on-board information about a flight, not to send out signals with specifics about a plane s location. D oh!) Sayid also has hope, and he builds a fire so that they can be seen from the sky when their rescuers arrive. But they should ve been here by now , he points out. And once nighttime rolls around, the truth is starting to sink in that, if they ll be rescued at all, it might not be for a while.
BOOM. Noises in the jungle. Right in time for the scary dark night that everyone must be dreading. Trees get trampled in the distance. This thing is BIG.
(What could be bigger than the fear of isolation?)
That sound that it made, I keep thinking there was something familiar about it
Where are you from?
The Bronx.
iv) The Face:
Let me get back to the dead bodies. Horror wasn t quite the right word.
People exist, primarily, as social beings. We have these real needs for others in our lives, and all of our strongest feelings stem from our relations with others. We have these ideas about morality and how people deserve to be treated, and they seem to be undeniably true. But, unlike other types of facts, the best justification for what makes our moral ideas real, actual truths doesn t come out of any sort of logical or reasonable argument; it comes simply from gazing at the face of another person.
I don t know if I m really right about all this because I ve never been in the presence of more than one dead body at a time, but if I was surrounded by dead faces, I wouldn t only feel horror. I would feel an extremely strong, deep sense of... violation. The foundations of my existence as a human being would be threatened, as I would be forced to ignore my instincts towards these people... because they re not people anymore. They re corpses. (See Kate s look when she s taking some shoes off a dead man to prepare for their hike).
This may be why some of these characters react not by shutting themselves off socially and emotionally, but by reaching out to the others who ARE still alive and trying to fulfill their need for... faces.
That s what I would do.
(Note: There are many very attractive faces to choose from on this particular island.)
v) Control: How much do we have?
Jack tells Kate (the person who he chooses to make a therapeutic connection, and possibly more, with) a story of a time early in his career that he was performing surgery on a young girl and he made a dangerous (not to mention messy) mistake. He got really scared. Someone s life was in his hands, and if that life was lost, it would be due to his mistake. Guilt (the thinking man s emotion) would come afterwards, but in the moment, what he felt was closer to fear. (Side note: In truth, these deep-rooted feelings I keep trying to describe are unnamable. Sorry for all the ultimately meaningless word-play). Jack let this fear take him over completely, counted to 5, and then he stopped feeling it. Just by making a choice. He completed the surgery and all was well.
Jack s story reminds me of an idea that, if I remember correctly, comes from Nietzsche. Imagine a man who throughout his life has acted cowardly. Is it in this man s NATURE to be a coward? Or has he chosen to be one? Well, Nietzsche says, imagine this: After a lifetime of cowardly behaviour, the man is put into another situation that calls for some bravery, and he comes through. And from that day forward, the man acts bravely instead. He goes from being a cowardly man to being a brave man, just by changing the types of decisions he makes. If this situation is imagineably possible, Nietzsche says, if the man COULD have been acting bravely all his life, but didn t, then he must have been CHOOSING not to. This is basically the idea of existence before essence . First, we exist. Then we decide who we re gonna be. Nothing is predecided, nothing is insurmountable. We get to become whoever we think is the right person to become, if we choose to. Life s very meaning comes from making that choice. No matter what type of shit life throws at us, we get to decide how to react to it and how to feel about it. Our environment affects us only in the way that we choose for it to.
Jack, it would seem, is an existential genius. He scoffs at his Autonomic Nervous System and just turns the fear off, chooses not to feel it. That s not to mention the enormous open wound on his back, the pain from which he s also able to ignore. And he actually downplays this ability, suggesting to Kate that she could ve done the same thing. She says, if it had been her in that situation, she would ve run for the door. You re not running now , he responds. (Likeable, admirable, sensitive and humble!) Jack s control over his emotions is one of the reasons why he is seemingly unaffected by their situation and so capable of jumping into the role of the leader who saves people s lives and goes out on quests to find tranceivers.
(Or maybe he buries himself in the doctor role because that s what feels familiar and comforting. And maybe he goes on quests to find tranceivers because he has a hero complex stemming from his deep and powerful need to meet the high expectations of his father... but that s just speculation).
Does Jack really have as much control over his essence as his story would suggest? I doubt it.
vi) So what happens?:
Jack, Kate and the as-of-yet comic relief character, Charlie, the bassist of popular Australian band Drive Shaft , go on their quest to find the front part of the plane where they might find a radio to transmit an S.O.S. message and get their asses saved. They get their tranceiver and also find the pilot, alive, who tells them that when the plane crashed, they were a thousand miles off course and nobody back home knows where the hell they are or has any way of finding them. Then, they get scared. Jack too, I bet. Their fear manifests itself physically and attacks them, leading to an exciting action sequence that ends with the bearer of bad news, the pilot, the source of their fear, the person who arguably got them into this, the man at fault... dead. REALLY REALLY dead.
Hmmmmmmmm.......
vii) What s in a name?:
This episode, the pilot, does not have a title.
Or does it?
Perhaps Pilot is not only referring to the fact that this is the series pilot, but also meant to suggest that the pilot (the plane s, that is) is quite a bit more important than he seems to be. Frankly, to the analytical but not quite analytical enough viewer, he comes across as little more than a plot device whose purpose is to deliver the thousand miles off course news, and get killed by the scary thing to show how dangerous it is. But if I am correct, this episode is named for him, and there s something much more than mere lazy writing techniques going on here
[> [> Re: READ THIS ONE INSTEAD! (if you want) -- Rufus, 03:03:26 10/18/04 Mon
Well, Nietzsche says, imagine this: After a lifetime of cowardly behaviour, the man is put into another situation that calls for some bravery, and he comes through. And from that day forward, the man acts bravely instead. He goes from being a cowardly man to being a brave man, just by changing the types of decisions he makes. If this situation is imagineably possible, Nietzsche says, if the man COULD have been acting bravely all his life, but didn t, then he must have been CHOOSING not to. This is basically the idea of existence before essence . First, we exist. Then we decide who we re gonna be. Nothing is predecided, nothing is insurmountable. We get to become whoever we think is the right person to become, if we choose to. Life s very meaning comes from making that choice. No matter what type of shit life throws at us, we get to decide how to react to it and how to feel about it. Our environment affects us only in the way that we choose for it to.
Thing is that, sure we make choices but those choices come from what we think good and bad. You could almost think of whatever is rattling the vegetation out there as a big ole Id monster resulting from the doubts that either defeat or or overcome in the choices the characters make. If that is so, Locke simply happened upon something that he feels he can control and may be afraid to tell others in case their new knowledge of him creates the former reality he lived in that cubicle, dreaming of his Walkabout. I figure he fears most of all just another bus leaving him behind...;)
[> [> [> His Name is Locke -- mamcu, 20:39:49 10/18/04 Mon
I was wondering if there'd be something on this board about this show once I caught on that the character was named Locke (thought he was Lot for a while, but that would have made things very different). I hope someone will deal with it more deeply, since my knowledge is very limited, but I associate Locke with two ideas: the concept of the mind as a blank slate (which to me seems to imply freedom to receive or create all ideas) and politically, the distinction between legitimate and illegitimate governments (implying the right to revolution).
So our Locke has not just a mind but a body that is a blank slate? Or is the island the blank slate, as suggested above?
Locke also seems to be the other powerful male to balance Jack. Walkabout showed Jack set up as but rejecting the role of leader more than once, and Locke asserting leadership on the hunt. So is there going to be some political development here? Some legitimate or illegitimate government?
Also, Robinson Crusoe, Gilligan's Island, and Lord of the Flies all seem to be hovering around the edges, especially when you get to killing pigs...
[> [> [> [> Also, episode 3 was called Tabula Rasa -- Evan, 21:22:17 10/18/04 Mon
Toads and butterflies (By any other name- 1.1) -- Tchaikovsky, 15:54:34 10/17/04 Sun
What's in a name? A rose
By any other name would smell as sweet
Hello everyone. Ah, October. The time of the Wanderlust. The temptation to migrate somewhere where the air isn't full of the icy uncompromisingness of Coventry; the rain cutting idly into your skin, the wind ruffling through your unprotected hair, frost lengthening your journey, unable to take the short cut to lectures. The time you want to go on a journey. Take up thy bed, and walk! The time when you need something resembling a journey to occupy you through the mundane days. The time for a new television show which might enrapture you.
My gut instincts: there are four programmes on television that I watch unfailingly. C4's 'Today at the Test'. 'Have I Got News For You', a topical news quiz. 'Six Feet Under', which I've seen the third and most of the fourth season of. And Bremner, Bird and Fortune, an impression and political satire show. Prior to its cancellation, I was an Angel fan, and a Buffy fan before that. I have not watched a lot of dramatic serial television, with only my faith in Joss Whedon and, to a lesser extent, Alan Ball to keep me to the belief that television drama can be art.
But it's definitely time for another journey. And as a result of the enthusiasm of sections of my friends' list, and on the strong recommendation of my best friend, I think it's time to embark on Alias
Here are the rules: Mark spoilers for upcoming episodes, so I can ignore them. Try to keep me interested. Tell me if I'm taking up acres of your co-owned computer screen space for no apparent reason.
Right. Let's go...
Alias
Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork
And drive the brute off?
Six days of the week it soils
With its sickening poison-
Just for paying a few bills!
That's out of proportion.
Lots of folk live on their wits:
Lecturers, lispers,
Losels, loblolly-men, louts-
They don't end as paupers;
Lots of folk live up lanes
With fires in a bucket,
Eat windfalls and tinned sardines-
They seem to like it.
Their nippers have got bare feet,
Their unspeakable wives
Are skinny as whippets- and yet
No one actually starves.
Ah, were I courageous enough
To shout Stuff your pension!
But I know, all too well, that's the stuff
That dreams are made on:
For something sufficiently toad-like
Squats in me, too;
It hunkers are heavy as hard luck,
And cold as snow,
And will never allow me to blarney
My way to getting
The fame and the girl and the money
All at one sitting.
I don't say, one bodies the other
One's spiritual truth;
But I do say it's hard to lose either,
When you have both.
-Phillip Larkin; notice how ingenious his half-rhymes are at embodying his dissatisfaction.
1.1- Truth be Told
You spend a long time in college, listening to lecturers rattle on about Tennyson and how he re-used the hoary old cliche of woman falling in love and then losing her man. Tis better to have loved and lost... Tennyson's argument is an optimistic one, eventually. He says that it's better to go out and experience life. It's a kind of distillation of the attitude that we'll try anything once. See how hard it is to lose someone, and then tell me it wasn't worth being in love with them in the first place.
And so in the first episode of JJ Abrams programme, we see the obligatory teacher. Here, though, the intellectual rambling is hardened by the experience of Sydney Bristow, a student in the class who has just lost her fiance, because she spilt information about her being a CIA agent. Automatically, and without any prompting of the audience by overly conscious visuals, we're straight into the middle of what grief means. What it means to be reminded of someone by every day life- at the most inopportune moments, when you're desperately trying to keep your eye on the important business of just living.
Abrams uses the delicious, (Devilicious) infinite possibilities of the first episode of a television show to weave in themes with in themes, showing a dizzying amount of vivacity and directorial and authorial intelligence. Where your average lunkhead or even a really good writer, might start a show by organising a few characters and setting up a plot which tells us a little bit about the internal universe we're submersed in, Abrams breaks all the rules.
-We start three-quarters of the way through the episode, with Bristow, in disguise, being tortured. Good grief man! You don't do a timeframe manipulation before you even know who someone is, and what they like normally.
-Very insistently, Abrams sets up the one-word title of the show as a main raison d'etre. The most obvious way of doing it is to use it as a plottish desk-tidy. Look, Sydney, college girl alias spy, and Jack aeroplane maker alias CBI man, and Sloane, good guy alias bad guy alias who knows what. But also, there's a thread running through the episode of what it means to take an alias in real life. What does it mean that Bristow doll up in a sequinned dress and act as stupid as a Marilyn Monroe character? What means it that she hides her real self from her boyfriend? Does making a dichotomy between your professional character and your social character start to destroy you? Can it be overcome like Buffy Summers? And at what point do you draw your personal relationships into your professional situation?
In a world where we constantly play little characters of who we think we are supposed to be in the situation, Sydney's role as a spy immediately takes on metaphorical intensity under the aegis of such an intelligent writer. We are made to think about why it is, exactly, that often work seems to be killing our social life with its intensity. In an office, you'll come in late and have to explain to your husband why he's had to keep the lamb in another hour while you were a high powered executive. In Alias, your fiance gets killed.
This immediately revs up questions about whether the only relationships workable in specialised employment, (and by association, employment in general), are those with people who understand the work- the insiders, so to speak. What do we read into the fact that as her partner is getting ready to except the risk in everyday life as part of the risk of her job, her work itself is brutally murdering him in the bath? How tied you are to your work is not ultimately about your spouse's opinion on how much it takes up your life, but your comfort or lack of with your spouse being in some way related to your work. Work kills Relationship is a regular story, if not quite such a literal one.
It's for this reason that the central tableau of the episode works for me. I'm not a fan of red, raw action, there for the fact that one needs a plot to have fights in. I'm in for the references, for the mirroring worlds and the fractal dynamite you get by having the writers' thoughts on life interact with your own.
Above the idea of Alias, there's the idea of the name of this particular episode 'Truth Be Told'. But who's telling the truth. Sydney, to Danny, and it ends in his death. Jack to his daughter, and it ends in her cold-heartedly, (the absentee father is not to be trusted), ignoring his advice and help. The truth is told in this episode, but there's no fudge on the part of the writer to claim that honesty makes it all better. To be honest with yourself is important, but to be honest in a world where truth plays second fiddle to alias as a word, is more dicey. This is the essential conflict of this universe; what drives the show's thematic core, thusfar.
So will Sydney let the toad, Work, squat on her life? The simple answer is, it's not the kind of work that Larkin was carrying out whilst filing in Hull. It's the kind of work which consumes your life and you develop a passion for. You live the job. But the question deep down is, does the disguise of our pretty heroine, the wigs she dresses up in, like a ten-year-old with Auntie's lip-stick, corrode? Does it start to eat away at your essential character? How is it best to deal with a life of denying yourself, taking up your cross, and following the challenges of your employment? In the last year of university life, this is a question that intrigues me on more than just a game-playing intellectual level.
Thoughts on the episode:
-The set up of Jack and Sydney is marvellous. Really good. There's a kind of family business vibe going on at the end- this is Kay from The Godfather becoming a consiglieri. Sydney hates the idea of working with her father on an instinctive level. And when she asks 'How do I know you're not lying to me?' the answer that Jack doesn't need to give is, You don't. This is the first time that a truth told is constructive, and the preceding lies have made its status so opaque that the character is distrustful of it. Father/daughter relationships are fun, and this one shows real promise.
-I love the geek man with his gadgets, and the snippet, 'I can make it up to 42, but I want 47 because it's a prime number'. There's a sort of joy in his obsessiveness and his delight in his work which shows a nicely rounded thought- it's not the cheap joke at the person who likes machinery.
-Sloane is effortlessly slimy and implacable. More please.
-I like the echo between Sydney's obsessive note-taking at the moment we meet her as an exam-sitter, and then at the end when she's in the room with Weiss and Vaughn, (Michael Vaughn? You're joking, surely!). This is her new area of study.
There was much more to be said, but I've forgotten it. Perhaps the next episode calls for note-taking. It's like last time, all over again.
Thanks for reading.
TCH
Replies:
[> The "Alias" Odyssey begins!!! And I'll have more to say later. -- Rob, 15:56:11 10/17/04 Sun
[> Re: Toads and butterflies (By any other name- 1.1) -- Rob, 21:59:34 10/17/04 Sun
In a world where we constantly play little characters of who we think we are supposed to be in the situation, Sydney's role as a spy immediately takes on metaphorical intensity under the aegis of such an intelligent writer. We are made to think about why it is, exactly, that often work seems to be killing our social life with its intensity.
...And on not only our social life. The other brilliant device was to have Sydney also lying to the very people she works with, and most particularly Dixon, her partner who trusts his life to her. Her life is an assemblage of layer upon layer of deception: she must lie to her friends, who don't know about her true work life at all, and she must lie to the people at one job about her other job, and actively sabotage their work because they, who believe they are working for a noble cause are actually helping the enemies of the country they have devoted their lives thus far to protecting. All this, and she's also a grad student who must go to class and turn in her papers on time!
Father/daughter relationships are fun, and this one shows real promise.
The most fascinating thing I find about the show is how the spy stuff is used as a metaphor for the disconnection and alienation between the father and daughter and is the block impeding the further healing of their relationship. And there is also of course Syd's dark father figure, Sloane. Or perhaps setting him aside as the "dark father" is wrong too. Her real father, Jack, can be just as morally shady.
I love the geek man with his gadgets, and the snippet, 'I can make it up to 42, but I want 47 because it's a prime number'. There's a sort of joy in his obsessiveness and his delight in his work which shows a nicely rounded thought- it's not the cheap joke at the person who likes machinery.
Like the Geek Trio, Marshall is a geek made of, by, and for geeks, but with perhaps even less sarcasm on the part of the writers. Note throughout the series that even when other people seem frustrated with him and his stammering, Sydney always treats him kindly and warmly.
I hope you keep this up!
Rob
[> Re: Toads and butterflies (By any other name- 1.1) -- Ann, 15:35:27 10/18/04 Mon
I am so glad you are doing this. I will have to dig out the season one dvd to enjoy again.
FYI - There is a great site at http://twoevilmonks.org/index.htm that has recaps of all of the episodes and photos that I have enjoyed. It also has Firefly stuff.
[> [> Hey, great link, Ann! But beware of spoilers there, TCH... -- Rob, 15:50:21 10/18/04 Mon
...but as long as you just stick to each particular episode in the guide you should be fine. But in the other sections, be wary.
Great screencaps! Most go grab some now!
Rob
[> [> [> OK, thanks for the warning -- TCH, 15:51:59 10/18/04 Mon
[> [> Thanks; perusing -- TCH, 15:53:20 10/18/04 Mon
Just when did Buffy jump the shark? -- ZachsMind, 17:08:04 10/17/04 Sun
"It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on.. it's all downhill."
I love this argument. Many fans of BtVS say it never jumped the shark. Just as many if not more each have their own JTS moment and some argue their position with undying fealty. Then there's me. I argue that it jumped the shark from day one, and then it jumped repeatedly throughout its run. However, rather than that being a bad thing, in the case of BtVS it purposefully incorporated JtSing into its chemistry so that it then became immune to shark jumping. For most television series, the JtS moment is the beginning of the end. The show will never be the same. You'll cringe at the thought of ever tuning in again. The rest of the series' run will feel like a train wreck. Sometimes you walk away never to return because you just can't face it. Sometimes you take a peek and hope you won't regret it. Sometimes it brings you back.
That's Buffy. It was the walking undead creature of the airwaves from day one. I can only think of two series that had repeatedly challenged its audience and was constantly reinventing itself and always had a loyal following from start to finish of its run: MASH and All In The Family. I'm sure there are others, but those two and Buffy are The Big Three. These series chose to not assume their audience needed coddling. They were daring and challenging shows that should not have interested as many people as they did but despite all common sense they remained critically successful from start to finish, and even when they were bad they were still good. What follows is a list of examples of all the times when Buffy DID jump the shark.
- Day One - BtVS was doomed from the start. It's a television
series based on an unsuccessful motion picture. That alone meant
it was fated to fail. The series started as a mid season replacement,
meaning it wasn't good enough to start the season with and was
a wild card in the eyes of networks suits, who thought well it
couldn't be worse than whatever they just replaced it with. The
dialogue that came out of the mouth of principal characters sounded
hokey and unrealistic. The british character was so stereotypically
british as to be a laughingstock. The bad guy was a reject from
Nosferatu. The very design of this series meant Buffy would have
to save the world from something practically every week. Talk
about suspension of disbelief! How did this thing even get on
the air?
- End of season one - Buffy dies the first time and
then comes back to life rather simply. Usually when the character
that the show is NAMED after dies, that kinda puts a serious
dent in its future. Certainly the series would never quite be
the same after this, cuz The Master was dead. Granted he was
already undead though so he could come back if they really wanted
to. This means that death is so much a nonissue from a writing
standpoint, making it possible that the audience could care less
about these characters. If death has no weight to it, the series
risks losing viewership.
- Beginning of season two - Buffy came back mean! At
least on the outset. So the audience shouldn't be able to respect
her now or empathize with her. The fact that they DID just further
proves my point.
- Spike's Big Entrance - The guy looked like a Billy
Idol wannabe! How could anyone take this big baddie seriously?
- Two Slayers No Waiting - The introduction of Kendra
indicated that Buffy was no longer THE chosen one. Which again
should have pissed off the audience and caused them to leave
in droves. The fact they didn't? Further proves my point. Again,
a defining moment where the series would never be the same again.
Yet the show just evolved and changed rather than crashed and
burned.
- Ted - John Ritter as a robotic potential step father.
'Nuff said.
- Kendra's Dead - Hey! I liked her! Also, it seemed
they only introduced this character in order to kill her off.
Perhaps not the first time in the series, but pretty much the
most annoying example. Also, Kendra in general was just JtSable
cuz of her bad accent and otherwise general black stereotype.
I'm surprised Whedon didn't get death threats from extremist
black rights activists.
- Angel and Buffy DO "it" - Whenever the lead
character consummates her relationship with the lead male ingenue,
that defining moment irrevocably changes everything about the
show. Other examples include Moonlighting and Remington Steele,
and in both those examples the shows definitely jumped the shark.
In my opinion when Mulder & Scully almost kissed in the movie,
that's the X-Files JtS moment for me. Buffy shoulda tanked after
she lost her virginity, but it only changed the show. It didn't
kill it.
- Angel goes bad - the lead male romantic lead becomes
the big bad of the series? That'd be like if Carol & Mike had
divorced in the second season of The Brady Bunch. How could the
women fans ever forgive Angel(us)? Well, eventually we found
out they could.
- Buffy Kills Her Boyfriend - Okay. So. Angel was already
dead and it was the only way she could save the world. Again.
Still this is not the behavior one wants in their hero figure.
And we've reached the end of season two.
- Jenny Calendar dies - Hey! I liked her! So did Giles
and he didn't even get to consummate their relationship sexually
before the writers kill her off. Was that really necessary? Seemed
rather frivolous a death to me. Giles should be able to get some
every now and then so he wouldn't be so stuffy.
- Faith's arrival - The introduction of Kendra above
applies here too. Buffy's not the one and only chosen one, so
it appears the series is going against its own rules. Any time
a series breaks its own rules, it threatens to jump the shark.
However, again, Faith's inclusion proved to only make things
more interesting. She changed Buffy's world but she didn't ruin
the series.
- Joy & Giles sittin in a tree - The thought of Giles
& Joy making out on the hood of a police car, tell me that didn't
creep you out.
- Christmas special - Past television series, when they
start making special holiday episodes, arguably become JTSable.
"Halloween" in season two and "Amends" in
season three are examples where BtVS shoulda jumped the shark,
but also dodged the bullet.
- Bad Willow - Sometimes when a tv series develops an
"evil twin" plot line, its indicative that the writers
are completely running out of ideas. The epiodes "The Wish"
and "Dopplegangland" should have been an end but proved
to be prophetic of the future.
- Graduation Day - The show had up until this point
been about high school students. When the characters and plots
revolved around a high school, and high school is over, so should
the show. So again, a defining moment that changes the series
irreparably, and yet it just refuses to die.
- Angel Spin Off - Often when a series begins to spin
off other series that means JTSing to many. Some mark the beginning
of Laverne & Shirley as the end of Happy Days. Some think Mary
Tyler Moore shoulda quit when Rhoda started. Obviously in this
case, it didn't matter. Again, Buffy defied the laws of television
physics.
- Buffy Goes To College - You gotta admit this was cringeworthy.
It just hurt in all kindsa crazy ways. Also, all the major characters
just happen to go to the same college except for Xander & Giles.
That's not very believable. This is the time in most people's
lives when friends drift apart. Yet here Xander & Giles just
refuse to drift away.
- Riley - I include this here just for purposes of completeness.
Personally I thought he was cool. A lot of fans think he singlehandedly
jumped the series' shark. He's like the Chachie of BtVS. Also
I should add here that the concept of an underground military
installation under the college that hadn't come up in the previous
season at all, just seemed a bit of a stretch.
- Oz leaves - This one caused me to walk from the series
for a couple years in first run. Ticked off a lot of people.
This should have killed the series, but it didn't.
- Shhh! - When shows start doing gimmicks, like for
example doing over a half hour without any dialogue as they did
in "Hush," that just seems like blatant attempts at
getting ratings points.
- Switching Slayers - Faith comes back and switches
bodies with Buffy, so we get to see Gellar playing Faith and
Dushku playing Buffy. Again, blatant gimmick for purposes of
ratings, but simultaneously just the kinda crazy things that
happen in Buffy's world.
- Oz's Brief Return - This seemed kinda forced and quick,
especially since he had just left earlier in the same season.
Which reminds me...
- Gay now! - Willow had seemed very straight and into
Oz and occasionally Xander who were both definitely not female.
All the sudden Tara shows up and Will's joined the other team.
What gives here? Admittedly, Amber Benson could turn me into
a lesbian and I don't even have the right plumbing. One might
argue there were no indications prior to season four that Willow
was ever going to turn gay. However, with 20/20 hindsight, when
we look at her fashion sense? Why would any straight woman wear
any of those clothes? Yeah, Will's been gay since day one. She
just didn't know it yet. One can also think perhaps Willow's
early fascination with Buffy and later Jenny Calendar had sexual
overtones, but that's just cringeworthy so let's not go there.
- Exit Stage Left.. Giles - He was the father figure
of the series and as he became less and less of a factor, the
other main characters seemed to have less and less cohesion and
guidance. Granted, in season four and five he seemed to be around
but since late in season three it was not in any official Watcher
capacity, and by the time the character got his Watcher status
back, we were slowly being weened off him since the actor wanted
to spend less time on the show and more time with family. Had
this been any show other than Buffy, the loss of a powerful talent
like ASH would have been a death knell, but this was quite a
resilient series. Similar to the loss of Col. Blake in MASH.
It's a hard pill to swallow, but the show must go on.
- Restless - a season cliffhanger that wasn't a season
cliffhanger. Restless seems more like a drug induced lark and
its strangeness might have turned away more fans than it attracted.
Then again, the opposite might be true. A show like this that
can pull off such a curiously told story is a show to be reckoned
with.
- Buffy Versus Dracula - Again, obviously ploy for ratings.
Rather pathetic one too, although the episode's pretty damn funny
in its own right, it's certainly not the series at its best.
- Crack of Dawn - In the Jumping the Shark mythos, this
is known as "New Kid In Town Syndrome." Similar ill-fated
examples include Cousin Oliver in Brady Bunch, Scrappy Doo, and
Seven of Nine in Star Trek Voyager. If producers believe that
late in the series a cute new character needs to be introduced
into the series' established family, then it means they're hurting
for ratings and are pretty desperate. In this case though, Whedon
introduced Dawn with a very intricate plan for the entire season
in mind. There was a plot arc in mind that gave the character's
sudden appearance purpose. So again they jumped the shark but
also dodged the bullet. And Dawn fast became my second favorite
character (Oz was my first fave).
- Spike Politics - Is William the Bloody a bad guy or
a good guy? Am I supposed to hate him or like him? By season
five there was just no certainty in this area. You'd go one way
with the character and then he'd do something going the other
way. Really annoying. In other shows this kinda use of a baddie
would just tick off the audience, but Spike became like the Doctor
Smith (a la Lost In Space) of the Buffy gang. Sometimes he did
the right thing, oftentimes he did the wrong thing and then balked
at having to own up to it. Spike shoulda helped the show tank,
but in many ways especially in later seasons, Spike kept things
interesting and therefore helped to save the series.
- Buffy Robot - Oh come on now! Sheesh! It's a "Small
Wonder" the show survived this one.
- Mommie dies - The loss of Joy Summers was both a crushing
blow to the series and perhaps its greatest triumph. "The
Body" won awards, and should have won more awards than it
did. One of the most riveting episodes of the entire series run,
this episode meant Buffy was growing up and metaphorically leaving
the nest. Another defining moment where the show would never
be the same again, and yet somehow it managed to withstand even
this, and in some ways it only got better.
- Buffy dies a second time - Generally, when you've
gone for five years, and the network you're on cancels you, and
in the season five finale the character for whom the series is
named dives off a high precipice and falls to her death with
witnesses all around her and she leaves a dead body and then
you bury her with a tombstone and everything, usually that would
mean the show's over. Usually. I mean, you would think surely
THIS time the show has jumped the shark.
- New network - Buffy's two year run on the UPN had
its own ups and downs. Like when it first began, it was running
the field with marks against it. Yet that never slowed it down.
The series had irrevocably changed however. A Buffy that literally
had to unbury herself and climb out of her own grave was going
to be a Buffy with a darker disposition. She wasn't going to
be as cheery and proactive as she had been. There'd be trepidation
and uncertainty. It's a new Buffy. A different Buffy. A Buffy
who made some questionable choices. She became an aquired taste,
and not everyone was going to be along for this particular leg
of the ride. The show became more challenging than ever before
for its audience. It expected a smart audience. It even began
to beg the question, "is this a world worth multiple saving?"
I think ultimately it was all the better for it, but Buffy season
six is a far cry from Buffy season one.
- Once More With Feeling - In the previous season there
was an episode where they hardly ever talked. Then one year later,
around the time of sweeps, they do an episode where most characters
are forced into singing for their proverbial suppers. Ouch. The
only thing worse than this is to have the publicity say, "next
week in a very special buffy the vampire slayer..."
- Buffy the Burger Flipper - Buffy tried construction.
She tried retail. She tried food service. Buffy couldn't find
a niche in life to grapple onto. We had a lead character with
no direction, no motivation, and we weren't even certain if she
had a soul. She 'came back different' but let's face it, a lead
character standing behind a counter asking if you want fries
with this does not make for a good tv series.
- Xander says no - He leaves Anya at the altar. This
was wholly unbelievable to me. He obviously cared for her. She's
drop dead gorgeous. A little creepy and she's got hairy toes
but I woulda said yes. I just didn't buy it. This is also one
of the most anticlimactic plot ends for all the characters' plot
arcs. They had nowhere to go from here, unless Anya went evil,
and she then saw Willow go evil and that didn't look like any
fun.
- Tara dies - This pissed off like, two out of every
three gay fans of the series. Many just dropped the series like
a hot potato right there, with a vengeful passion. I was almost
one of them but hey, Whedon had a story to tell. I trusted he
knew what he was doing. It wasn't a statement against homosexuality.
It's just that sometimes good people die for no good reason and
that's just life. Still, the show was never the same again when
we lost Tara's soft but wise voice.
- Willow Goes Dark - again with the Evil Twin thing,
only this time no more twin. Willow just gets mad and tries to
destroy the world. Didn't we do this in season two with Angel?
Well, not quite.
- Season Seven - Practically every episode in the last
season has an example of what could be seen as JtSing. From the
Manchurian Candidate like plot arc of Spike, to the whole "two
score slayers no waiting" thing, by this point in the series
the storyline is all over the place and frankly its amazing the
writers weren't just sitting in padded cells going 'boogadahboogadahbooga'
at shadows. "Him" was a blatant revamp of the more
Xander-centered "Bewitched Bothered & Bewildered" and
they even flashbacked to that episode at one point in Him to
prove that point. Giles was going evil. Then he wasn't. Then
we just didn't know. They blew up the Watcher's Council. Which
was okay cuz it never was of any use to the gang anyway. Faith
comes back. Wood turns out to be a dead slayer's son and Spike
killed his mom. Buffy pisses everyone off. Repeatedly. And what's
with all her speeches all the sudden? Dawn is a potential slayer
no she is not WTF? Is The First even killable, if you can't stake
it? Then Caleb shows up outta nowhere. What the hell's going
on? The whole season is like a snake swallowing its own tail.
However, at the same time, damn but S7 is one hell of a ride!
What fun!
So in summary: 1) Did the show jump on day one? Yes. 2) Did it
jump several times since day one? Yes. 3) Did the show never jump?
Yes. A part of me hopes this puts an end to the jumping the shark
argument. But then again I hope it doesn't, cuz where's the fun
in that? Please feel free to add your opinions of whether or not
Buffy jumped the shark and where and when and how many times and
all that. To paraphrase Data from STNG: Please continue the petty
bickering because it's most fascinating. =)
Replies:
[> The Funny Thing About Jumping The Shark -- Tom, 11:56:58 10/26/04 Tue
I've always thought that the idea of jumping the shark was kind of overrated, particularly when you take a look at the web site and see the full list of possible ways that a show can jump shark. The list basically says "Did anything about the show change?" If so that moment can be considered a jump the shark moment. So, if you look at Buffy's page on the site you see that basically somebody has voted that Buffy jumped shark after every single noteable event in the show's history. One of the coolest things about Buffy, Angel and the other shows that I enjoy is that characters grow, evolve, and their lives actually change. I just seems dumb to me to say "Show X sucked after event Y" Because I think stagnation is much more of a problem than change if the show was ever actually good to begin with.
Also, JtS seems to say that if a show runs 7 seasons and its best episode is in season 2 then the last 5 seasons are a failure, which is just silly. My favorite Buffy episode happens to be Becoming (season 2 finale), but to say that because no episode in the final 5 seasons surpassed that episode the show failed and jump the shark is plain dumb. (For those curious the rest of my top 10 are: Restless, The Gift, Once More With Feeling, The Body, The Zeppo, Conversations With Dead People, Chosen, Who Are You?, Dead Things)
Tom
[> [> Yeah, its like the 14 year Korean war on MASH -- manwitch, 13:21:48 10/26/04 Tue
Things should change. I agree the stagnation thing is far more unpalatable than characters that actually evolve.
Obviously different people have their own taste and opinions for what the best episode is, but I would bet there's general consensus on a handful of episodes that are "as good as any other." Becoming, Hush, The Gift, Restless, The Body, OMWF, Conversations. I would put Innocence and Prophecy Girl on the list. But these top eps, even though people may differ on which is best, or may add a couple of their own faves here or ther, these top eps come from the whole tenure of the series, and I think there would be very little dissent that they are special episodes. The show never loses its ability to be truly excellent.
[> [> Re: The Funny Thing About Jumping The Shark -- auroramama, 11:37:15 10/27/04 Wed
I just seems dumb to me to say "Show X sucked after event Y" Because I think stagnation is much more of a problem than change if the show was ever actually good to begin with.
Also, JtS seems to say that if a show runs 7 seasons and its best episode is in season 2 then the last 5 seasons are a failure, which is just silly.
Both these ideas remind me of Jon Stewart's criticism of TV news. What's reported is not the story, but the story of the story: not "is it true" but "do people believe it"; not what they're saying but what people are saying about it. Saying, "After X, it was all downhill," is taking control over the story by deciding what the story of the story is. Once you've decided a show has jumped the shark, you don't have to be disappointed by episodes or seasons that don't measure up, because you already knew they wouldn't. Neither life nor good fiction reliably follows these predictable story lines, but it's usually possible to squash events into some sort of mold, if you're willing to reach a bit.
It is about power. The world is full of things we're deeply invested in emotionally but can't control: TV shows, people. Naming a thing feels almost like controlling it.
[> [> Re: The Funny Thing About Jumping The Shark -- Rob, 14:38:06 10/27/04 Wed
The Jump the Shark site itself isn't even consistent in its definition, which is what bugs me most about it. How else to explain the shows where there are votes for it jumping the shark on the first episode?
The term was not meant to be used for shows that were always considered bad, but for once-great shows that dropped in quality. The other thing that bothers me is when these judgments are used for shows that are still on the air. Many series have down and up periods of quality, and to decide that a show will never be good again without taking into account the fact that most people can't see the future, is unfair to the show, its writers, actors, etc.
Rob
[> [> [> Exactly, when does a sine wave -- Cleanthes, 16:07:21 10/27/04 Wed
jump the shark?
The "Jump the Shark" concept suggests quite a number of logical errors:
1) That it's all good, good, good, and then bad, bad, bad.
2) That one can make an objective judgment of subjective things, ie. that de gustibus non disputandum est is just a quaint but erroneous Latin aphorism.
3) That looking for what's bad demonstrates superior critical acumen - this is a common internet error.
If I bite into a sour cucumber, I should throw it away and think no more about it. Otherwise, I continually relive the bad experiance. This suggests that I enjoy the pain, or that I'm not in touch with my right reason
[> [> [> [> Damped sine wave -- dmw, 06:07:32 10/30/04 Sat
Exactly, when does a sine wave jump the shark?
I don't think the concept they suggest is quite as simple as the dropoff or exponential decay function you characterize in item #1 and I don't think that the site argues that criticism of any media is a purely objective activity. I also don't think that the quality of these shows followed a sine wave either. Their quality follows a pattern closer to a damped sine wave, which I think is more what JtS means than a simple pure exponential decay:
[> Dangit! -- Zach, 17:23:59 10/17/04 Sun
Goodbye! I did this before already! I wrote something similar to this on January of 2003. LOL! This means I'm beginning to swallow my own tail and therefore I've jumped my own shark. Hello!
[> Re: Just when did Buffy jump the shark? -- CW, 18:31:29 10/17/04 Sun
Don't worry about repeating yourself. It happens a lot as you get older. ;o)
It always seemed to me that jumping the shark meant that a good show got so irredeemably stupid that even it's long term fans couldn't take it any more. So a new show can't jump the shark. If a show starts out dumb, and stays that way till the network buries it, it's just a bad show, not a good one that jumped the shark.
Can't say that "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" ever got to that point. But, "Rhoda" did when Rhoda and Joe got divorced. The other Mary Tyler Moore spin-off "Phyllis" was in the started-out-dumb-and-stayed-that-way category.
If Buffy didn't jump the shark when Dawn was intoduced (and it's pretty clear it didn't), it should have been obvious it wasn't going to, as long as Joss had any say over the show. "My Three Sons" was another show that managed to pull off the new-inner-family-member-out-of-a-hat trick and survive. But in general if anything will kill a show that will do it. Angel survived the same thing nicely, too. Although with Connor you had to remember all the whys and wherefores, to know his birth should have been impossible. Otherwise he was just a 'normal' kid with abnormal growth/ aging compared to his papa.
[> Re: Just when did Buffy jump the shark? -- Ames, 08:13:01 10/18/04 Mon
When the writers can surprise you, change things completely, and still keep you interested and along for the ride - that's a true accomplishment. Too many television shows today take no risks. Their "surprises" never take you out of the comfort zone. Probably scared off by the accusation of JTS, which was true of the many series that didn't manage to do it successfully. But in most of the cases I can think of, it was because they didn't commit to the risk - they tried to change things to attract a new audience, without going out of the comfort zone of the existing audience. I think that's the root cause of the JTS syndrome that dooms a series to failure. If we respect BtVS in Season 6 while still being upset and disturbed by the changes, it's because we know that they took a risk and committed to it.
[> Defining "jumping the shark" (a dissertation) -- cjl, 08:31:08 10/18/04 Mon
To me, jumping the shark doesn't necessarily mean a single plot point or plot twist that the audience finds unpalatable. Certain series have gone down controversial routes at (or near) the end, utterly pissing off their fanbases.
Xena dies, decides NOT to come back this time, and doesn't get it on with Gaby. Nick Knight accidentally kills his GF and is not redeemed. Much screaming and outrage follow.
What defines the JTS phenomenon for me is creator exhaustion. The loss of focus by the PTB of a TV series, when the original impetus for producing the series has long disappeared and the show seems to be running on fumes. This is readily apparent when the defining crises of the major characters never change and the assembled cast becomes little more than an assemblage of well-known quirks for safe consumption by its long-time fans.
Two major comedy series come to mind here: Murphy Brown and Night Court. After Diane English and Reinhold Weege (respectively) left the shows they created, both series veered away from the emotional core of the comedy and turned into increasingly strident quirk fests. The actors tried their best, but once-sharp characterizations devolved into irritating cartoonishness. (English came back to Murphy in S10 and tried to recapture some dignity with the breast cancer plotline, but by then it was far too late.)
In that respect, BUFFY never jumped the shark. Joss had a story to tell, a seven-year path from childhood to adulthood, and he finished his story the way he probably always intended. The execution of S7 was abysmal, and certain characters vanished into the woodwork, but I always held out hope, even in the darkest days, that ME could pull it together and salvage the season. It didn't work out as well as I'd hoped, but poor execution does not equal the creative bankruptcy of a series that has "jumped the shark."
Most of the plot points listed above weren't JTS moments. They were daring, risk-taking moments, representative of a creative team passionately involved with the series. A series jumps the shark when the risk-taking stops and the creative team decides to coast for the next four years (see: Friends).
Besides...Joyce and Giles on the hood of the police car? Am I the only one out there who had a thing for Joyce and was absolutely stoked for a smoking hot G/J relationship?
I'm looking at Kristine Sutherland's Advil commercial and I'm instantly enraptured. Really, Joyce? Advil is a safe and effective substitute for Vioxx? Please Joyce, tell me more. Your voice is so calm and soothing, and your face so very, very lovely....
[> [> LOL -- Pony, 08:41:04 10/18/04 Mon
[> [> I loved Joyce -- Ann, 08:47:51 10/18/04 Mon
I cheered when she and Giles got it on. Yeah her. Finally! And on top the the "height" of authority, a police car. I think she had as much growing to do as Buffy, her journey a shadow of her daughter's. There is a reason her death foretold Buffy's in The Gift, she lost her mom, but Buffy was able to become a mother to Dawn, and maybe even a mother to herself. Buffy needed that loss, the loss of her past to make her be able to make that jump. I don't think she jumped the shark either. Maybe Buffy's jump was a snerk at that very idea.
There was no Fonzie on Buffy, although Spike might be the closest ;-)(just joking hee)
Joyce was young when she had Buffy, her marriage became a shambles, and she grew up along side Buffy. The "mom" grew as did the daughter. I liked their parallels very much, and they do occur all through the series.
[> [> Creator vs Creation Exhaustion -- dmw, 09:46:09 10/18/04 Mon
What defines the JTS phenomenon for me is creator exhaustion. The loss of focus by the PTB of a TV series, when the original impetus for producing the series has long disappeared and the show seems to be running on fumes. This is readily apparent when the defining crises of the major characters never change and the assembled cast becomes little more than an assemblage of well-known quirks for safe consumption by its long-time fans.
That was an interesting essay on the idea of Jumping the Shark, the core of which I've quoted above. However, I come to a much different conclusion than you, that BtVS started running out of ideas after season 3, and in fact, I found season 7 not only to be poorly executed but often quite derivative of earlier seasons, not only in its big bad but also in episodes strongly reminiscent of early episodes like BBB (Him) and so forth.
That's to be expected--whether someone's run out of ideas is in the end a subjective assessment. If we wanted an objective look of where most people think BtVS ran out of steam, we could take a look at the ratings which show a tremendous drop from the starting 4.5 of season 6, episode 1 to half that value for any episode in the second half of season 7 (except the series finale, which was in the low 3's.)
But let's return to the more interesting question of what is Jumping the Shark. I like the definition cited above as a start, but I think it's incomplete.
Jumping the Shark isn't simply about the creator becoming exhausted, but also about the creation becoming exhausted. There are two aspects of the creation:
- The depth of the original concept. J.R.R. Tolkien
probably has the greatest depth in his original creation, with
far more having been written about his background than he ever
published as stories about the creation. Most of the fantasy
quest genre that Tolkien inspired is an example of a shallow
depth creation, which looks much the same on the suurface as
LotR but which runs out of steam quickly. David Eddings is a
good example of this problem.
- The constraints added as the series progresses. Every
story you tell about your creation limits what you can do in
the future, by establishing the facts and/or behavior of history,
character, and physics (magicks.) If a character can solve a
problem in one season, he or she shouldn't be baffled by or unable
to solve essentially the same problem later.
The downfall of a serial television show can be found in both
of these problems. The first issue can only be lived with, but
there are two possible solutions to the second problem. You can
either live with the additional constraints, limiting what you
can episode by episode, or you can break them and hope the audience
doesn't notice or care or can rationalize them.
Star Trek is a classic example of the second solution. I've never
regularly watched the series, but even as a casual watcher, I
quickly saw how they could solve problems in the episode I was
watching if they just used a solution I saw two weeks ago. The
transporter alone could solve almost any possible problem if used
in the way they'd used it at some point in the past. Rationalization
quickly comes into play as an attempted solution by both writers
and fans who created books and web sites on Star Trek physics
and the like.
BtVS suffers from both problems. The vampire slayer myth was deep
enough for a movie or a season, but it doesn't have enough depth
for 7 years of shows and later attempts to retrofit it like the
guardians/scythe myth in s7 fail to fit well or appeal strongly
to viewers. We see examples of dropping consistency with earlier
seasons in the magic addiction and Sabrina-esque finger-pointing
magic of s6, and we see examples of repeated story arcs in the
constant good character becomes evil plot. Similar problems exist
with the individual season's underlying stories, especially when
dealing with a deity as in BtVS5 and AtS4.
The problem of prior constraints is also evident as the city of
Sunnydale becomes gradually less real, transforming from a place
we can recognize with human characters to the pale shadow of a
roleplaying game setting with so much otherworldly happenings
that it's dominated by demons and magic rather than by human concerns.
Season 6 cemented this fate for Sunnydale with its demon biker
gang beginnings, but I think we can trace the origin of this problem
back to the loss of the high school setting in season 3. Leaving
high school behind may have been a good idea if the story offered
a replacement, but part of the original core story was the high
school and it wasn't ever replaced.
[> [> [> And on the other end of the spectrum... -- Rob, 10:00:13 10/18/04 Mon
...I didn't think the show became truly brilliant until the gang left high school behind.
Rob
[> [> [> [> Re: And on the other end of the spectrum... -- Dlgood, 13:43:26 10/18/04 Mon
Which doesn't really address the argument:
The issue wasn't leaving high school behind, but the increasing distance between the characters and the environment in which they existed.
The problem of prior constraints is also evident as the city of Sunnydale becomes gradually less real, transforming from a place we can recognize with human characters to the pale shadow of a roleplaying game setting with so much otherworldly happenings that it's dominated by demons and magic rather than by human concerns.
Even as the show grew more ambitious in the post-high school years, the growing disconnect between the characters and the world they inhabit begins to undercut the show even as the story attempts to take this into account and make a point of it. Because it's not only the characters that have become disconnected from the world they inhabit, but the story itself.
The Post-HS years should be more brilliant, because of what's attempted. I don't think they actually are, because the story so frequently fails to achieve what it set out to do. (Unless judged as anti-art, in which the incoherence could be viewed as 'brilliant'. But this is still more by accident than design.)
There is an understated elegance in the earlier seasons mostly lacking in the unsubtle UPN years.
[> [> [> [> [> Thanks for the clarification. -- dmw, 10:39:03 10/21/04 Thu
[> [> [> [> I agree with you Rob. . . . -- Briar Rose, 17:05:30 10/20/04 Wed
I had a problem with "the college season", but that was even redeemed by eps like Hush and the final two eps.
I became a "Can't miss it" early on - but for seasons 5 through the end was when it became, "Don't call me. Don't talk to me. Don't breath loudly around me," when Buffy was on.
I've noticed that 'older' viewers (mentally/emotionally mature) those that had faced the difficulties of responsibility at a young age, or through aging, liked the last three years more than other fans might have. I think that's because the topics discussed were very mature. First jobs, dealing with death and parenthood and having to try and find your path in life without anyone there to do it for you.
That's also why I loved the last three seasons so much. I related to them even more than I had the first four.
[> [> [> [> [> Generalizations -- dmw, 10:37:54 10/21/04 Thu
I've noticed that 'older' viewers (mentally/emotionally mature) those that had faced the difficulties of responsibility at a young age, or through aging, liked the last three years more than other fans might have. I think that's because the topics discussed were very mature. First jobs, dealing with death and parenthood and having to try and find your path in life without anyone there to do it for you.
Interesting. I noticed the opposite--that the young people in their 20s who I met online were the ones who enjoyed the last seasons, while no one I know in real life, where the average age of people I know is much closer to 40 than 20, liked them. I thought this was mostly because BtVS did a much worse job of handling young adulthood than it did handling high school. While BtVS is almost unique in how well it dealt with the American high school experience, its handling of young adulthood is unexceptional and many better works exist.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Generalizations -- manwitch, 12:47:52 10/21/04 Thu
What about themes like the inevitability of death, the meaninglessness of life, loneliness, the lack of inherent value, the pointlessness of choosing one course of action over another, how to choose humanity when in the existential void? Do you see other shows handling those topics in a more exceptional way than Buffy in seasons 5-7?
I recognize that it handled highschool in a particularly deft way with its MOTW metaphors. But I think the themes of the later seasons are just as sophisticated if not more so than those of the earlier seasons, and personally I think they are handled about as well as anyone could ask. It may not depict young adulthood as well as it depicted High School, but BtVS is, I think, exceptional from first to last in its handling of very sophisticated thematic material.
This is, of course, not a generalization, but my own very specific and limited opinion. Feel free to have another.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Generalizations -- dmw, 14:43:45 10/21/04 Thu
What about themes like the inevitability of death, the meaninglessness of life, loneliness, the lack of inherent value, the pointlessness of choosing one course of action over another, how to choose humanity when in the existential void? Do you see other shows handling those topics in a more exceptional way than Buffy in seasons 5-7?
First, let me separate consideration of season 5, which I and the RL BtVS viewers I know consider good but flawed, from the last two seasons, 6-7. I think The Body was exceptional and also that The Gift handles its themes (if not its plot) exceptionally well too.
However, while both episodes were excellent, they also represented a constraining of the creation (see my original post above) that later seasons were unable to logically and successfully overcome, resulting in the claustrophobic confinement of the setting to the Summers house and corresponding final fading away of Sunnydale as a real place, along with hand waving to negate consequences of past events in Buffy's overly simple resurrection in The Gift. In summary, season 5 was largely good (if one avoids too much logical thinking about Glory and the Key), but much of what made it good also made it a poor platform for continuing the show.
Second, let me note that I wasn't talking solely about themes, but about plot, character, and setting, which is where I find most of the problems with the last two seasons. The themes weren't bad ones in themselves, but theme is insufficient to make a story good or enjoyable for me.
Third, better works. I said works, while you said shows. This is partially because while I can readily recall books and their authors, I have a poor memory for TV series and episode names. Although I write my posts with BuffyDB in an adjacent tab and have to ask my TiVo to get a list of what I'm watching currently, I can bring up a mental picture of my bookshelves instantly. The serial works on my first mental shelf that would fit in this category are graphic novels like Art Spiegelman's Maus and Neil Gaiman's Sandman, but there are also some regular novels like Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan books, which I felt followed the curve some feel Buffy does, being fun and good at first, but growing deeper and more interesting with later books like Mirror Dance and Memory.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> I don't disagree w/ dmv.:) I think it depends on the people..... -- Briar Rose, 17:22:33 10/25/04 Mon
When The Counsel of Elder Slayers existed, season 5 and six were very hot topics. Comments were about the great way ME handled such topics as death, loss of hope and life changes. The median age of the posters was around 35.
The Bronze had a median poster age of 23, and the seasons 5 through 7 were constantly demeaned and criticized as "Too dark", "Too boring", "too stupid."
In real life, I've found that more people I've met over 35 became fans, and started to really get into Buffy in season 5, and stuck through ot the end. Again, they sight the deepness and darkness of the topics that ME brought to the series, and how well they were handled. That comedy and drama were mixed in a balanced way, such as life tends to do.
But I think that it would depend on the set of people that you're talking about. I'm talking about my own experiences with interaction among fans of the show. I don't disagree with you. I just don't agree that our experiences are the same, as they are with different people.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Generalizations -- Masq, 16:28:16 10/21/04 Thu
I'm an older viewer (40, now), and I preferred the high school episodes as well. I think they were just better done and better thought out than the later seasons. Seasons 6 and 7 in particular I thought were not given the level of story-line and episode scrutiny they should have been given.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Generalizations -- auroramama, 14:39:13 10/22/04 Fri
I haven't seen a correlation between age and preferred seasons, and I know fans in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. For me the difference is: the high school years are "better done and better thought out", but the later seasons tried to do harder things (topping yourself is always harder), even if they got a little sloppy doing them.
[> [> [> Re: Leaving High School -- Rich, 13:20:16 10/18/04 Mon
This problem was built into the show from day one. Sooner or later, the gang *had* to graduate (this isn't "Archie & Jughead"), but as soon as they did, the "High School as Hell" theme would disappear.
The creators tried to replace it with "Real Life is Hell", with mixed results. The best example of this, IMO, is "The Body" - a story which would never have appeared in the first 3 seasons, because it didn't fit the theme they were working with at the time.
In the Sctbs archives ( in Slayage.com ), there's a piece by Dennis Showalter which argues that in season 7 the theme changed again - to a war story. The focus was no longer on Buffy's coming of age or coping with life, but specifically on her development *as a leader*.
I'm not sure that a major change in basic theme qualifies as jumping the shark. I suppose that's a matter of definition.
[> [> I must refute what you have said -- manwitch, 11:11:47 10/18/04 Mon
No, not Xena!
If Xena jumped the shark, I haven't seen the episode yet. I'll keep watching the "o" network reruns. O O O.
I know it had rough spots, but it never quit on us. Did it? (And they did a pretty fun musical years before Buffy tried it.)
Plus Gabs is really cute. The "jump the shark" definition should be amended so that if there's still someone really cute on the show, it hasn't jumped. By that definition Buffy is like an entire ensemble cast away from jumping the shark.
Whereas Happy Days was in peril from day one.
Other than that, I'm sure I agree with you as usual.
[> [> [> Hey, Rob! Xena discussion here! -- cjl (waving across the internet), 11:23:55 10/18/04 Mon
manwitch, my friend, I never said Xena jumped the shark. I said that her death in the series finale might have pissed off the collected fandom, but the Xena PTB's decision to kill her off by no means indicated the creative bankruptcy associated with "jumping the shark".
However, there is a case to be made that Xena S6 in general was sloppy and badly-executed, on a (below) par with Buffy S7, and the shark was jumped the minute Michael Hurst showed up as the TV reporter.
But I won't pursue that argument, lest Rob beat me to death with his pompoms.
[> [> [> [> I wrote a whole article for a Xena website on the sloppiness of S6... -- Rob, 13:22:16 10/18/04 Mon
...so don't worry about my disagreeing with you on that! ;-)
http://www.whoosh.org/issue59/berg59.htm
I was really disappointed that they took what could have been a perfect opportunity to wrap up dangling threads and storylines and wasted it on disconnected standalones, and, when they did reference past events, screwed up the continuity on numerous occasions. The episode, for example, where they explain what really happened to Gabby in between Sacrifice II and A Family Affair made such a complete muddled mess of the situation that the only way for me to justify its existence is to wank that the scroll was a fake!
COMING HOME:
WHAT WENT WRONG AND OH SO RIGHT
IN THE FINAL SEASON OF
XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS
By Robert Berg
Content copyright (c) 2001 held by author
WHOOSH! edition copyright (c) 2001 held by Whoosh!
5863 words
The Show
[01] Xena: Warrior Princess has evolved more in its six year run than most television shows ever accomplish. Much has been written about its unique ability to swiftly careen from high opera one week to comedy another, from self-parody and camp to serious drama and tragedy. A great deal has also been said about its highly experimental nature: this show has done musicals, historical epics, alternate universes, modern day stories, special effects extravaganzas, and fairy tales. What has been most fascinating about this highly unusual program, however, is its exploration of the relationship between two remarkable female characters. Behind all of the mythology, science fiction, and other over-the-top elements, it has always been able to paint a story that is true to human emotion and to portray characters as real as any in "real life".
[02] True to human nature, these characters have not remained the stagnant caricatures that often populate television worlds. Think of sitcoms like Friends, Frasier, and Seinfeld, or dramas like Melrose Place, The Practice, and Providence. Have any of these characters truly grown emotionally or changed the least bit since the show began? They might be a few years older, but that does not mean that they are necessarily wiser. I have yet to see a character on any one of these genre shows reach a true epiphany, question his or her very ideology, or, in essence, grow up. On Xena: Warrior Princess, however, this has happened. Both Xena and Gabrielle, the main characters, have been profoundly changed by their experiences together.
[03] In SINS OF THE PAST, the premiere episode, Xena was an emotionally distant loner, tortured by the atrocities she had perpetrated in her dark past, and with the belief that humankind would never embrace or forgive her previous indiscretions. Through the course of the series, she would learn that this is not true. She goes on to become the greatest hero the world has ever known and opens herself up to human emotions and love. By the end of the series, she is in touch with both her stereotypically masculine and powerful side, and her extremely feminine, adoring side.
[04] The changes in Gabrielle are even more amazing. From the gutsy but inexperienced farm girl, capable of seeing the good in every one, and with a penchant for getting herself into trouble, Gabrielle has evolved into a seasoned warrior, strong and mature. She has gone from Xena's tagalong sidekick to her equal in every way.
[05] Throughout the years, their relationship has not always been smooth. Conflicting backgrounds and beliefs lead to the famous rift in the third season. Whereas on another, lesser show an argument between two characters might last an episode or two at the most, the effects of this major falling out were felt for months, if not years, later. During the fourth season, Xena and Gabrielle questioned whether they should be traveling together in the first place, and Gabrielle questioned who she was as a person, an issue not fully resolved until the end of the sixth season.
[06] Volumes and volumes could be written merely analyzing Xena and Gabrielle's relationship. That, however, is not the purpose of this article, which is to analyze the faults and accomplishments of the sixth, and final season. It is important, nevertheless, to understand that the sixth season has succeeded phenomenally, perhaps more so than any other, in its celebration of the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle and in its returning to the roots of what has made us fall in love with the show in the first place. Where it has been less successful is in focus and story continuity, unfortunately making for one of the weakest overall seasons in the show's history.
Lack of Focus
[07] The sixth season's major flaw, the one from which all the others spring, is its lack of focus and drive. While watching all other seasons, the viewer was lead to a specific place, with each episode adding another piece into the mosaic that made up the year's overall story or theme.
[08] In the first season, we were becoming acquainted with Xena and Gabrielle, and Xena and Gabrielle were becoming acquainted with each other. Although this year was the most episodic, in that each story began and ended in the weekly installment, it was fitting of the early stages of this show, which was setting up its formula. Throughout the year, we watched Xena and Gabrielle build a solid friendship whilst fighting a succession of bad people.
[09] The second season continued the spirit of the first, but allowed us a more in-depth look into these characters. We were allowed to learn a great more about Xena's dark past, how she came to be the great evil force she once was, and were allowed to greater appreciate her reformation and the strength she derived from Gabrielle's love. We watched Gabrielle grow into her own as a woman, and, for the first time, consider murder, to avenge the death of her husband in RETURN OF CALLISTO, and become a leader in THE QUEST. In A NECESSARY EVIL, she acquired her own mortal enemy in the form of Velasca. Whereas before Callisto had hunted her due to her association with Xena alone, she now herself was the primary target of an enemy.
[10] Both the Rift saga and the loss of Gabrielle's blood innocence drove the third season. As far as plot goes, it was the most interconnected season, meaning one could not casually view any episode and expect to understand what was going on without having seen every other episode. The season had a definite purpose from beginning to end, stretching the boundaries of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship, forcing Gabrielle to grow up quicker than expected, and culminating in a climax that both redefined Xena and Gabrielle's love for each other and set the stage for the next year.
[11] The fourth season was held together by a vision. This vision, first seen in ADVENTURES IN THE SIN TRADE II, simultaneously proved to Xena that Gabrielle was still alive and convinced her that she and Gabrielle should go their separate ways. Xena saw herself and Gabrielle being crucified by the Romans atop a snow-covered mountain. She realized that if Gabrielle stayed with her, she would die with her, and she could not accept this. This vision drove the entire season, inspiring a trip of self-discovery in India, leading both Xena and Gabrielle to question and renew their love for one another, and, in the end, die together.
[12] Similarly, the fifth season had a specific goal. Xena and Gabrielle were sent back to life with a purpose. Xena discovered, to her astonishment, that she was pregnant and that her daughter would be the instrument that would destroy the Greek gods and make way for monotheism. Thus, all of the Greek gods vowed to find and destroy Xena's baby. Xena spent the year protecting her baby, both before and after she was born, and in the end brought about the Twilight of the Gods.
[13] Coming from previous seasons that were so tightly woven, the sixth season was quite a surprise. One would expect that in the final season of a show such as this, the writers would attempt to create a spectacular season- long story arc, one that would both tie up any loose ends from previous seasons and would steadily build the season, and the entire show, to a huge, stunning climax. This, however, did not happen. Besides some mini-arcs, such as the trilogy, comprised of WHO'S GURKHAN, LEGACY, and THE ABYSS, in which Gabrielle finally resolved her stance on violence, and the "Ring" Trilogy, in which Xena and Gabrielle's status as soul-mates was firmly renewed after their seeming distance in the fifth season, this season lacked sweep, and most importantly focus. Taken as a whole, it seems slipshod and thrown together.
[14] Although it can be argued that this season is in many ways meant as a homecoming, as implied by the title of the first episode, COMING HOME, and that its overall purpose was to return Xena and Gabrielle's relationship to the way it once was, before the complications of the third, fourth, and fifth seasons set in, this purpose could have been accomplished through a solid story. Instead, we are given disjointed episodes that, while in many ways do feel like the "Xena" of old, and do have their merits when taken separately, feel disappointing when viewed as a whole.
[15] Consider FRIEND IN NEED, the last episode, which does attempt to bring the story of the show's six seasons full circle. Unfortunately, we have had no build up to the epic plot of which FRIEND IN NEED is comprised. The ending, in which Xena sacrifices her life in order to redeem the souls of ten thousand people she had killed years before, would have possibly been more accepted by the fans had they been made aware of FRIEND IN NEED's back-story earlier in the season. We have been on Xena's side for the past six years, but have only met these victims the second-episode-to-the-last. Of course, we would not want Xena to die for a sin of which we had only just been made aware. In seasons three through five, the actions that lead to the conclusion had been in evidence for the full year. To deprive the viewers of such a progression in the final year was a fatal mistake.
Sloppy Writing
[16] The second great fault of the sixth season was a reliance on hasty, rather than thought out, writing. Unpopular plots from the previous season were quickly resolved, seemingly in an attempt to please all the fans at once. Unfortunately, this drive to erase the past as swiftly as possible lead to stories made unbelievable by major plot holes.
[17] For example, a huge, vocal portion of the fans disliked the fifth season, due to its extermination of almost all of the Greek gods and its separation of Xena and Gabrielle's characters most of the time. Although I was not one of these people, I understood their reasoning and would have expected the writers to come up with some creative way to fix these problems while maintaining the integrity of their own creation. Unfortunately, the writers did not seem to understand that most intelligent fans would like an intelligent wrap-up to even a less-than-beloved plotline.
[18] THE GOD YOU KNOW is probably the most egregious example of the sixth season's attempt to quickly write its way out of a situation with its tail between its legs. The Archangel Michael, who had previously helped Xena, tells her that God has decided Eve, Xena's daughter, should sacrifice her life. He immediately becomes Xena's enemy, and Xena fights him to save her daughter. The instant she attacks him, however, Xena's power to kill gods is taken away, and the audience is left wondering why. Why did the God who created Eve in order to wipe out the lesser gods decide she should now die? Why was He now punishing Xena for protecting her daughter? Was this meant to say that this God had used Xena just as the others had tried to? That this God was evil as well? Was Eli then just using Xena and Gabrielle all this time as well or did he have no say in Xena's powers being taken away? None of these issues are ever answered, and except for a brief mention in YOU ARE THERE, this plot is never heard from again.
[19] A few years ago, in an article printed in "The Chakram", the official Xena fan club's newsletter, the writers made it clear that they only spend time explaining necessary elements on the show. Having an entire episode, for example, dealing with how Gabrielle escaped the lava pit after SACRIFICE II is unnecessary, because it would bog down the plot. The brief explanation given in A FAMILY AFFAIR, that she had been thrown against a wall of the cave and slowly crawled her way out over a period of many days, was totally acceptable and fit the logic of the Xenaverse. Ironically, the writers went against their own methods in the sixth season when they attempted to again explain Gabrielle's escape in SOUL POSSESSION. This time, however, the explanation did not fit into the continuity of the show and proved the merits of the writers' earlier theory of leaving some aspects to the imagination. Of course, THE GOD YOU KNOW is an example of not enough information being given. The writers should have taken time later in the year to explain this inconsistency, rather than an all-but- forgotten one from the third season.
Continuity Flaws
[20] The lack of continuity constituted the third major flaw of the sixth season, which is a direct tie-in to the hasty writing. The writing, overall, was sloppy in the sixth season, and in many cases, it seemed that no attention was paid to either episodes from previous seasons, or even from that very season. The previously mentioned SOUL POSSESSION completely disregards the fact that Hope, Gabrielle's demon daughter with whom she had plunged into the lava pit, had made it clear in A FAMILY AFFAIR that her father, Dahak, had saved her. In this episode, Ares says that he did it, and that Gabrielle had asked him to do so. That makes no sense considering the fact that Gabrielle had poisoned Hope in MATERNAL INSTINCTS, pushed her off a cliff in SACRIFICE II, and immediately set about trying to kill her again in A FAMILY AFFAIR. Are we expected to believe that Gabrielle reconsidered after one murder attempt and then changed her mind again? That is not even factoring in that in A FAMILY AFFAIR, Gabrielle was surprised that Hope was alive, and that we are also asked to believe that at this point in the story, Ares, the god of war, wanted to marry Xena. Why, then, was she surprised at his proposal in the fifth season?
[21] The flaws in this episode, however, extend beyond mere logic. In one scene, we see Xena carrying the new chakram, which she did not get until the episode CHAKRAM, which took place over a year later. A minor flaw, perhaps, but indicative of the lack of care or effort the show had this year.
[22] If we return to THE GOD YOU KNOW, we are expected to believe that, since Xena can no longer kill Caligula once her god-killing powers are taken away, she convinces him to kill himself. It, however, has been previously established on the show that a god cannot kill himself. Callisto informed us in SACRIFICE that the only way for a god to reach oblivion is to be stabbed with Hind's Blood. A god cannot die merely because he wants to do so.
[23] In FRIEND IN NEED, a continuity flaw could be recognized from earlier in the year. Xena teaches Gabrielle how to do the pinch, Xena's method of interrogation by which she cuts off the flow of blood to her victim's brain, and both act as if this has never happened before. This completely ignores the fact that early this very year, in HEART OF DARKNESS, Xena had taught Gabrielle the pinch, or at least how to remove it. Why was teaching her how to put it on someone much different? Further, in that episode, Gabrielle did not want to learn how to do it. In FRIEND IN NEED, she complains that Xena had never taught it to her.
[24] Two less inexplicable, but still hard to believe, episodes occur as a result of continued additions to Xena's back-story. In the Ring Trilogy, we learn of a brief time Xena spent in Norway, while in A FRIEND IN NEED, we learn of a brief time in Japan. What does not, however, gel is the fact that both are said to have occurred after she left Chin in THE DEBT II. Previously, we were lead to believe that the events of ADVENTURES IN THE SIN TRADE occurred immediately after those in THE DEBT. Xena was very vulnerable at that point, still conflicted from the kind teachings of Lao Ma, who tried to convince her to become good once more. A new mentor, Alti, came at that point and set Xena further on her path of evil. It was very important, however, that Xena be confused by Alti after recently being affected by Lao Ma. Xena could not have immediately gone conquering in Japa, or explaining her belief in the non- existence of love in Norway, unless meeting Alti happened between this. Even in the Xenaverse, however, it is hard to believe that Xena came back from Chin, later went to Norway and then went all the way back to Japa, farther east than Chin. That presses the believability of even a fantasy show such as Xena.
Missed Opportunities
[25] In many ways, the sixth season was a year of missed opportunities. Chances to resolve issues such as how Xena came into possession of and learned how to use the chakram were squandered. We learned in CHAKRAM that Ares had given that there are two chakrams and Ares gave the dark one to Xena, but there must be more of a story than that. That could have made a fantastic final episode.
[26] Great premises, such as the one in SEND IN THE CLONES, wherein Xena and Gabrielle are cloned in the twenty-first century, were likewise squandered. Whereas that episode could have been a fascinating and funny exploration of how Xena and Gabrielle would react to life and crime in the twenty-first century, what resulted was a poorly written clip show, in which both characters behaved out-of-character and spent most of the time in the lab, and then in the back of a junkyard. A great would-be scene in which Xena busts Gabrielle out of jail is done off camera! In previous seasons, the futuristic clip shows created a whole universe with believable characters. THE XENA SCROLLS and DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN are prime examples of this. Yes, clips are used, but the story is still exciting and engaging. SEND IN THE CLONES was a flat, uninspired rendition of what could have been a brilliant idea.
What Went Right
[27] With all of these problems, mistakes, and flubs, what, you may ask, redeems this season? First off, most of the episodes were not bad. Many stand-alone episodes were very strong. Examples of this include the tightly written DANGEROUS PREY, which was directed by Renee O'Connor, and the warm and funny MANY HAPPY RETURNS. In OLD ARES HAD A FARM and YOU ARE THERE, we were given two very enjoyable comedies. The Ring Trilogy, WHEN FATES COLLIDE, and A FRIEND IN NEED are among the best episodes this show has ever produced.
[28] The success of the sixth season, seen a great deal in the aforementioned episodes, lies almost completely in its depiction of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship. Over the past five years, we had seen Xena and Gabrielle encounter incredible highs in their friendship, and lows from which we thought they would never recover. The sixth season was wonderful in cementing the fact that Xena and Gabrielle are soulmates, dear friends, and perhaps more. In past seasons, the writers hinted at the fact that Xena and Gabrielle might be lesbians, a concept that has come to be known as the "subtext". However, there they had mostly done so through jokes, winks, and nudges to the audience. In the sixth season, the so-called "subtext" was brought directly in the forefront, in a serious manner not attempted since the India arc of the fourth season and the late fourth season episode, IDES OF MARCH. The subtext was not so "sub" anymore. Any way a viewer would like to read their relationship, it is extremely hard to argue that there is not at least a romantic attraction between the two after seeing an episode like WHEN FATES COLLIDE or THE RETURN OF THE VALKYRIE.
The Ring Trilogy
[29] The Ring Trilogy is comprised of three sixth season episodes, namely THE RHEINGOLD, THE RING, and THE RETURN OF THE VALKYRIE, which are a mix of Norse mythology, the Beowulf legend, and the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale. What makes these episodes so great are not just their very clever story, but also the fact that for the first time, in a long time, an episode goes out of its way to declare Xena and Gabrielle's love for each other. Throughout the fifth season, Xena and Gabrielle spent a great deal of time apart. Whether this was a result of Gabrielle feeling uncomfortable or perhaps even angry about Xena's pregnancy was never completely addressed. However, the fact remains that it was easy, in the fifth season, to forget about the deep bond these two women share. Although they did begin to act close and loving again by the sixth season, that magic word, soulmate, was not spoken.
[30] Then The Ring Trilogy came along, and with it Brunhilda, a woman who becomes jealous of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship. She makes it clear to Gabrielle that she wants to be Gabrielle's soulmate. Gabrielle, however, apologizes, and says that she cannot for she already loves Xena. Now, being friends with someone is one thing. One can have many close friends, but one can only have one true love, or soulmate. Gabrielle specifically states that the reason she cannot love Brunhilda is that she already loves Xena. What better argument could there be for the true nature of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship?
[31] Gabrielle then assumes the role of Sleeping Beauty, awaiting a kiss to awaken her. Brunhilda turns herself into an eternal fire, burning around Gabrielle's resting-place. Only Gabrielle's soulmate would be able to walk through the fire unharmed and kiss the slumbering maiden. Of course, the only one who survives the flames is Xena, who then assumes the role of the fairy tale prince.
[32] At the end of the trilogy, the profound effect Gabrielle has had on Xena's life is highlighted. Xena approaches the Rhein Maidens, a group of sea sprites who had not seen Xena since her evil days. Immediately fearful of her, they soon grow at ease when they realize Xena is a changed woman. When they ask, "What magic has made Xena into such a noble creature" she replies that it was not magic, and looks over lovingly at Gabrielle.
YOU ARE THERE
[33] YOU ARE THERE centers around the humorous notion of a television tabloid reporter appearing in Xena's time and doing a tell-all, trashy story on her, and digging up all of her dark, dirty secrets. At the end of the episode, he finally asks the question we have all waited so long to find out: Are Xena and Gabrielle lovers? Unfortunately, his cameras experiences technical difficulties, so the answer is never given. While on the one hand, this could be seen as the same sort of jokes from the show's earlier years, this episode was yet another indication about the importance of Xena and Gabrielle's relationship as the axis around which the rest of the show revolves.
WHEN FATES COLLIDE
[34] With WHEN FATES COLLIDE, the writers created an episode that not only was the greatest exploration of Xena and Gabrielle's love for each other, but also was one of the most brilliant episodes the show produced in its history. It revolves around the idea that Julius Caesar escapes from Tartarus, the afterlife for evil people, and kidnaps the Fates. He unravels the thread in their loom wherein he had originally betrayed and crucified Xena, and instead marries her. This results in a world where Xena and Caesar rule almost the entire known world, and Xena and Gabrielle have never met. Xena, having never been betrayed, never has become the Evil Xena we had seen in episodes such as THE DEBT. Gabrielle, having never met Xena, becomes a playwright, creating stories of love similar to that which we had seen her write in THE PLAY'S THE THING.
[35] However, in this alternate world, despite the extremely different circumstances under which Xena and Gabrielle meet (Xena attends a performance of one of Gabrielle's plays), there is still an instant connection felt between Xena and Gabrielle. They still become soulmates, indicative of the fact that they were destined to be together. In episodes such as DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN and BETWEEN THE LINES, we had been made aware that Xena and Gabrielle were destined to spend lifetime after lifetime together. Now we are told that even if this same time period had turned out differently, they still would have found each other.
[36] Over a very short space of time, in this episode, Xena goes from being the Empress of Rome to a prisoner. Caesar grows jealous of Xena's love for Gabrielle, and orders Gabrielle executed. When Xena refuses to allow him to kill Gabrielle, he names her a traitor to Rome. Thus, she gives up her title, her marriage, and her whole life for a woman she had met only a day or so before, a woman whose words and beliefs had touched her so deeply and spoke to recesses of her soul which had never before been addressed.
[37] In the greatest testament to her love for Xena thus far, Gabrielle arrives at the Fates' temple, where Caesar had bound them, and burns the loom of the Fates. This act could have destroyed the entire world and space- time continuum, but Gabrielle risks this in order to set the world right, and, more importantly, to save Xena's life.
MANY HAPPY RETURNS
[38] MANY HAPPY RETURNS deals with Gabrielle's birthday and Xena's present for her. The episode ends with one of the show's most overtly romantic scenes: Xena gives Gabrielle a poem, written for her by Sappho, a famous Greek, Lesbian poet. The words perfectly describe Xena's feelings for Gabrielle: "There's a moment when I look at you / And no speech is left in me. / My tongue breaks, then fire races under my skin / And I tremble, / And grow pale, / For I am dying of such love." Xena and Gabrielle tenderly hug, and with that, Xena puts on the Helmet of Hermes, which gives its wearer the power of flight. She and Gabrielle fly off together into the sunset.
SOUL POSSESSION
[39] Despite its major storyline continuity flaws, SOUL POSSESSION is another perfect example of the depths of love between Xena and Gabrielle. Despite the fact that it seemed a foregone conclusion that Gabrielle had died, Xena refuses to believe this. In a desperate attempt to retrieve her friend, she even agrees to marry Ares. She is willing to sacrifice her freedom and marry the god whom she hates most in order to find Gabrielle. This is a beautiful testament to their love. The modern-day scenes are a nice reminder of the fact that Xena and Gabrielle's souls will return, and will remain together for thousands of lifetimes to come.
FRIEND IN NEED
[40] SOUL POSSESSION's reminder that Xena and Gabrielle will be reincarnated is a good thing to keep in mind while viewing FRIEND IN NEED, the last episode of Xena. In the end, Xena and Gabrielle are not allowed to ride off together into the sunset. The story concludes with Xena dead, and Gabrielle, holding Xena's ashes in an urn, standing alone on the deck of a boat headed for the Land of the Pharaohs. Although a large amount of fans were outraged at the tragedy of the ending, it is hard to deny how much Xena and Gabrielle's love for one another pervades the final episode.
[41] At one point, Xena teaches Gabrielle how to do the pinch by using herself as the victim. Before she teaches Gabrielle how to release it, she looks deep into Gabrielle's eyes and says, "If I only have 30 seconds to live, this is how I want to live them, looking into your eyes. Always remember I love you."
[42] Upon discovering that Xena has died, Gabrielle resolves to bring Xena back to life. "You're my whole life, Xena. I won't lose you," she tells her. Gabrielle embarks on a dark and dangerous journey, in which she risks her life in order to retrieve Xena's body. In so doing, she must battle a samurai, but her love for Xena and her determination to save her helps her through. Throughout the series, only Xena and Callisto have ever been able to throw and catch the chakram. In order to protect Xena, however, Gabrielle throws the chakram, defeating a samurai warrior, and catches it. This scene is very reminiscent of one in IDES OF MARCH, when Xena was paralyzed and could no longer fight. After a year of refusing to commit any violent acts whatsoever, and a life in which she only ever killed one person, and had never lifted a sword, Gabrielle's love for Xena gave her the courage and strength to fight and kill dozens of Roman soldiers who had come to kill Xena. Here, again, Gabrielle's extreme love for Xena gives her the ability to have strength she never realized she had before.
[43] Shortly before Gabrielle struggles to retrieve Xena's ashes, which have fallen down the side of a cliff, she and Xena's spirit share an all- too-brief, but extremely passionate kiss. Having been harmed by an evil spirit, this kiss gives Xena the strength she needs to finish her battle.
[44] In the end, Xena tells Gabrielle that she cannot allow her to bring her back to life. If Xena were to come back, she would condemn forty- thousand souls of people she had accidentally killed years before, to eternal suffering. Gabrielle tells Xena that she does not care, because "you are all that matters to me ... I love you, Xena. How will I go on without you?" Xena tells her that she wishes with all her heart that she could return, but throughout the years, Gabrielle had taught her the right thing to do. She tells Gabrielle that she will always be with her. As the episode ends, Xena remains by Gabrielle's side as a form of spiritual guide. She tells Gabrielle that she will always live on in her heart. "Where you go, I'm at your side."
Evolution
[45] The final season was not only successful in conveying Xena and Gabrielle's love for one another, but also in displaying the aforementioned evolution of Xena and Gabrielle's characters that occurred over the years, Gabrielle even more so than Xena. A mini-arc occurred earlier in the year, comprised of WHO'S GURKHAN?, LEGACY, and THE ABYSS, in which Gabrielle once more questioned her stance on violence and her place in the world, similar to her fourth season quest.
[46] Although some people argued that this was unnecessary and was merely recapping an old topic, I disagree. These episodes allowed Gabrielle a chance to see just how far she had come over the years. They also allowed her to renew her commitment to remain with Xena. Even up to the end of the fifth season, she was still wondering whether the warrior life was right for her. In LEGACY, the greatest irony of all occurs: she kills a man carrying a scroll of peace, because she believes it to be a weapon he was aiming for Xena. The peaceful bard had now killed someone who turned out to be carrying the symbol of her former life. Dealing with the trauma of this episode allowed Gabrielle to push aside the bad happenings in her and Xena's past and look towards the future. It was a perfect ingredient and lead-in to such great "relationship" episodes as WHEN FATES COLLIDE and The Ring Trilogy, and to the scene in A FRIEND IN NEED, where Xena asked Gabrielle to lead in their attempt to release water from a tower and thus save a burning city. Xena followed Gabrielle's initiative to the letter, a sign both that she trusts her implicitly, and respects her judgment, as well.
Conclusion
[47] All in all, the sixth and final season of Xena, while in many ways its weakest, should not be written off as uninspired or messy. What it lacked in continuity, focus, and logic, it made up for with heart and the obvious love the writers have for these two characters, and these two characters have for each other. While it is tempting to bemoan the lack of a yearlong storyline, the sloppy writing, and the tragic ending, and to pretend that the events of the last season never happened, that is a mistake, for it would ignore the brilliant highs the show did achieve this season, most notably in The Ring Trilogy, WHEN FATES COLLIDE, and, yes, even FRIEND IN NEED, although I personally would have ended it differently.
[48] For those who cannot accept the ending of FRIEND IN NEED, I would suggest doing what many others already have: view WHEN FATES COLLIDE as the series finale. That episode contained all that is best about Xena: Warrior Princess --strength, devotion, honor, epic drama, and most importantly, true human emotions.
[49] As the main character of the recent film, Moulin Rouge, Christian, a bard like Gabrielle, writes, "Above all, this is a story about love. A love that will live forever."
[> [> [> [> [> I've read this article before; an excellent Xena S6 summary. -- cjl, 14:01:31 10/18/04 Mon
Sad true story: I was at my parents' apartment a few years ago, and my niece had accientally left XENA on the living room TV. As a closet Xena-phile, I tried to get my Mom into the series. The episode was SEND IN THE CLONES, and we watched the junkyard battle scene for an excrutiating ten minutes. Needless to say, I never tried to convert her after that. There's only so much you can overcome.
I still think YOU ARE THERE is a disaster, a horribly strained one-off joke, and one that wastes the talents of Michael Hurst. If you had MH for an episode, why not bring back that old Xena/Gaby/Iolaus magic? After all, the three characters had an interesting history together.
ITA that the scope of Xena's world travels was impossible to believe, even with the Xenaverse's rather odd timeline. I have to admit that during the Norse and Teutonic stories, I said to myself: "When did she have the time to DO all this?" But I decided to give Tapert some slack, and just go with it.
I also agree that When Fates Collide could have been a great final episode.
Other notes:
-- Eve was just as boring on XENA as she was on ANGEL.
-- I missed Joxer.
-- Not enough Ares. The Death/Decline of the Gods should have been so much more awe-inspiring.
-- Any sign of Renee O'Connor?
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I've read this article before; an excellent Xena S6 summary. -- Cleanthes, 16:20:16 10/18/04 Mon
Any sign of Renee O'Connor?
ROC attended the `Grudge` premiere. I wonder if she spoke with Sarah Michelle Gellar? Picture here
She will appear with Bruce Campbell in a made-for-TV movie on the SciFi channel in January, 2005. The movie is called Alien Apocalypse.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Meant to change subject to "Renee O'Connor" -- Cleanthes, 16:58:14 10/18/04 Mon
[> [> [> [> [> Re: I wrote a whole article for a Xena website on the sloppiness of S6... -- Finn Mac Cool, 19:38:56 10/18/04 Mon
Interesting essay. I've personally only seen a handful of Xena episodes, but this essay suddenly gives me the ambition to watch more.
I am afraid that I am now going to give a far-too-long response to a short, inconsequential comment you made at the beginning: namely, the list of shows where the characters don't really change from beginning to end, and the fact that I don't think Friends should have been on it.
Having watched almost every episode of that show, something I noticed was the profound growth that the character of Chandler went through.
At the beginning of the show he was trapped in the viscious cycle of always being desperate to get a girlfriend, but always doing something to screw it up, either through petty jealousies or hangups, or through a tremendous fear of commitment. While he made jokes about just about everything, it's notable that many of his jokes made fun of his own inadaquecies. He was very uncomfortable with his parents after they divorced when he was a kid (I only recall three episodes where we actually see him talk to them). Lastly, he had a lot of issues with perceptions of his masculinity, as it became a recurring joke that people always thought he was gay when they first met him, and so often tried to hide things that would make him seem less than full-blood heterosexual.
By the end of the series, many of these characteristics had changed, mostly due to his relationship with Monica. In later seasons, Changler was far more likely to reveal his sensitive side than he was earlier; there was even one episode where the other characters realize that they've never seen Chandler cry before and eventually get him to let tears come out. Not long before their wedding, Monica pressured Chandler to go down to Las Vegas and talk to his father after they hadn't spoken for years, and when we see them together again on Chandler's wedding day, they seem to be much more at ease. Monica also gave Chandler a new sense of self-worth; before he would often be the first to admit that he was a loser, usually with a sarcastic comment to mask the pain. However, as he and Monica spent more time as a couple, he began to see that sometimes he could be the mature one, the one who held things together. Finally, there's the very important fact that Chandler's relationship with Monica, unlike all his previous ones, held together. In one episode they have their first fight, Chandler takes this to mean their broken up. Monica won't let him quit that easily, though, and they end up working through it. In fact, something that can become easy to miss is that Chandler ended up being the one who proposed advancing their relationship farther, rather than the previously marriage-and-family focused Monica. He was the first one to say "I love you", he was the one who suggested they live together, he was the one who proposed, and he was the first one to want to have kids. Previously commitment had terrified him, but almost without realizing it, he ended up taking all of the major steps in their relationship (saying "I love you", for example, had come out in the heat of the moment, without any planning, and he seemed almost stupefied at what he had said afterwards).
I realize I probably talked far too long about this, and that, since it's late an i'm feeling too tired/lazy to proofread, it probably won't read that well either. I just got an uncontrollable urge to respond and did it. Sorry for any wasting of time I may have caused.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Now I agree on that... -- Rob, 19:42:39 10/18/04 Mon
I also think that Joey developed amazingly. Interestingly, all of this really happened after this essay was written, after "Friends" had for the most part, lost a great deal of its luster.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> I was thinking of mentioning Joey as well -- Finn Mac Cool, 22:05:09 10/18/04 Mon
However, that would probably involve mentioning the attempted Joey/Rachel storyline of the last three seasons. The episode that started that, to me, made it very believable that Joey might develop feelings for Rachel. However, the follow-up episodes didn't work nearly as well (we got some tension between Joey and Ross, a rejection from Rachel, then it was like the whole thing never happened). The way the relationship ended, too, was really lame (they have a few problems trying to have sex, so they break off the whole thing without any future attempts to go back). Yeah, the less said about that, the better (although I think the "Joey" spinoff is doing pretty well with the character and, except for five or six episodes from each season, is surpassing the later seasons of Friends in quality).
P.S. Which season of Xena would you recommend a more or less new viewer start with, and what backstory should be known beforehand?
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> The best season of Xena, IMO, is the third... -- Rob, 22:17:56 10/18/04 Mon
That's where they really started to take risks, which shows in a number of experimental episodes, including the acclaimed musical, "The Bitter Suite," and the year's main story arc, which basically shook up the series forever. It was risky, bold, and lots and lots of fans hated it, because the characters were really put through the ringer. I, on the other hand, started to take it seriously as a dramatic work, as opposed to the mostly campy bend that pervaded the first two seasons. Not that there is no campiness here, or that there isn't more serious drama in the first two seasons, but this season brought a respectability and credibility to the show, on the whole, that made it IMO one of the best shows in sci-fi/fantasy history. In fact, there are some episodes of this season that had a level of darkness that I did not see again on television until the third season of Angel. So, I would recommend the third season. I don't have time to explain back story at the moment, but I can continue with that tomorrow. But the show's best, IMO, are the third and fourth. The first is good, the second is excellent, the third and fourth are brilliant, the fifth has some great elements but the quality is starting to decline, and the sixth, as you see from my article, has some genuinely wonderful parts but is the sloppiest, least consistent out of all of them. But S3 and S4 are Xena in its prime.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Typo... -- Rob, 22:19:10 10/18/04 Mon
Not that there is no campiness here, or that there isn't more serious drama in the first two seasons...
should read "that there isn't some serious drama in the first two seasons." There is definitely not "more" than in the third.
Rob
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> The life cycle of a TV show -- manwitch, 08:30:04 10/19/04 Tue
I agree with your description of the TV show life cycle. The first season shows you the promise, assuming its a good show that has promise. The second season shows you the flashes of brilliance that tell you its something special. The third season is the Golden Age. The best season. The fourth season has moments that even surpass the third, but in the back of your mind you fear that some self-consciousness is developing. The show is attempting to play itself, rather than just be itself. The fifth season gets frustrating, as the selfconsciousness and the plot twists go to far. This is the season when the comedy series begins to have dramatic episodes and the drama series lose all their consistency as they attempt to "top" themselves. The sixth season, if there is one, you just can't watch anymore.
I confess, that was my experience with the X-files, and I guess it was with Xena as well. I've never seen season six as a complete season. Whatever the season was that ended with the Romans taking down Xena and Gabs going balistic, and the two of them getting crucified, that was balls-on perfect. Sorry, I don't know episode names.
But what Xena never lost, and X-files did, was its sense of the characters, their internal battles. While plots may get silly and timelines screwy, they always remember how their past weighs on them, how it frees them, what they mean to each other. I just think those are a couple of terrific characters. And personally I find Gab's journey more interesting than Xena's. I always felt Gab was more of a protagonist, because she goes through so much, changes so much. Xena, while interesting, is still Xena. Her change happened over on Hercules, before the Xena series got started.
Incidentally, Buffy by and large avoided this TV show life cycle. It fits up until season 5, when it should have faltered, but instead took the up-ratchet and got even better. For my money, season 5's last ten episodes or so are just amazing. And the arc as a whole is amazing. And the addition of Dawn, and how it was handled, was a stroke of genius.
Season 6 had some slip-ups. It got very dark and they mistakenly thought pointles nerd banter would lighten it up. We can talk about that some time if anyone is interested. Buffy's conlicts in Season 5 and Season 2 are as dark as any she ever faces. But the show keeps us engaged with comic moments and an unjustifiable sense of hope. Season 6 has no comic situations, only stupid nerds wasting screen time. So the show becomes very shizophrenic as the lead characters sink deeper and deeper into darkness and the weight of it is broken only by what seems to be a different and vastly inferior show about doofusses.
So Season 6 really looked like what the fourth season is usually. Moments of unsurpassed brilliance (Afterlife, OMWF, Tabula Rasa, and others) with moments of it just being wrong.
Season 7 however, came back strong again. The more I think about Season 7, the better I think it was. The first seven or eight episodes are about as strong a season beginning as Buffy ever head. No, it IS the strongest beginning to a season Buffy has.
Anyways, part of why Buffy didn't jump the shark is because its arguably a single story. Shows that jump the shark are episodic, unfolding in unknown ways according to what's possible or what's du jour for the creative team. Buffy's story cycle was basically known from the get go, so it can't really jump in the same way. Her development always makes sense, and that keeps it on track.
Anyways, who cares what I think. I believe Buffy to be the best television show ever made, bar none. No one need agree, but that's the perspective from which I write.
Although, give credit where its due. Before Buffy, Xena had kick ass chicks beating the stuffing out of men, a musical, the death of its title characters, and a hot lesbian couple.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Dittoheading -- Sophist, 08:57:30 10/19/04 Tue
I believe Buffy to be the best television show ever made, bar none.
Agreed.
The more I think about Season 7, the better I think it was.
Agreed.
The first seven or eight episodes are about as strong a season beginning as Buffy ever head. No, it IS the strongest beginning to a season Buffy has.
I'm still thinking about this. I'm not fond of Help, and Him was perhaps derivative of BB&B (but hilarious nevertheless), but every season has one or two less than perfect eps in the first 7-8. When I looked back at the list, oddly enough my favorite season (S2) had the weakest beginning.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Curious -- manwitch, 10:43:18 10/19/04 Tue
I'm sure I could find it in the archives, but why you no like Help? The episode, not the Beatles movie.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Curious -- Sophist, 11:03:39 10/19/04 Tue
I had a problem with the B/X visit to Cassie's father. It was so unrealistic that it took me out of my suspension of disbelief. I thought that Dawn's friendship with Cassie was forced. Finally, I felt that the evil boys raising the demon were derivative of Reptile Boy (and to make matters worse, I don't much care for that ep either).
In retrospect, I'm disappointed that the succeeding eps never seemed to follow up on the legitimate question asked at the end: what do you do when you really can't help? It's a good question, and could have been tied in to some of Giles' more defeatist moments (or the FE's "you can't win" mantra), but it never was.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Agreed about everything, Buffy and Xena-related... -- Rob, 09:04:10 10/19/04 Tue
And personally I find Gab's journey more interesting than Xena's. I always felt Gab was more of a protagonist, because she goes through so much, changes so much. Xena, while interesting, is still Xena.
Yes, and the great thing about the final episode, although I did not care for the way they killed Xena, was that it made it very clear that this really hasn't been the story of Xena, but the story of Gabrielle, and how her life with a great warrior changed her from a small peasant girl who loved telling stories to a great warrior/bard herself. The story came completely full circle. The plots in the last two seasons started to go a little wacky here and there, and the plot continuity started to suffer, but the writers never for one minute lost sight of who the characters were and how they had developed on each particular part of their journey. As overall sloppy as it was as a season, Gabrielle in Season 6 never all of a sudden spoke like Gabrielle of Season 1 or 2. They were very consistent with her development. And as I said in my article, the love story between these two women, whether you view it as being sexual or platonic, was always handled beautifully, which made even the not-as-good seasons well worth watching. The writers never forgot how to write the characters, so the only inconsistencies were plot-related, which was annoying, yes, but much better than some other shows that have fallen from their prime, where the characters become caricatures of their former selves. I'd use Friends as an example of that, particularly in the characters of Ross and Monica, who turned from the most stable characters on the show into shrill, irritating cartoons. And yes, the Xena and Gabrielle crucifixion episode, The Ides of March, at the end of the fourth season, was a true series high point. I would say it was the best episode, but they in fact came out with an even better one, IMO, with When Fates Collide, oddly enough, in the final season.
Completely agreed, though, about Buffy, that since it was much better planned out and plotted that I view it as being one long novel rather than each season the writers trying to figure out what to do next, as on Xena.
Rob
[> [> [> [> Xena shark-jumping -- Cleanthes, 13:08:16 10/21/04 Thu
Xena jumped the shark in season 2, episode 21 `Lost Mariner`. Gabrielle and Xena were shipwrecked. Xena made it to shore, but Gabrielle found herself in shark-infested waters and had to take refuge on a cursed ship. Xena, to get back to Gabrielle, made a tremendous jump over the sharks and onto the ship, using a springing tree branch as a kind of catapult.
Buffy "jumped" the shark when she, in her Joan persona, and Spike in his Randy persona, foiled the attacks of the shark demon in the sixth season episode `Tabula Rasa`.
All sufficiently creative TV shows encounter sharks sooner or later.
[> Re: Just when did Buffy jump the shark? -- ScottS, 10:51:10 10/18/04 Mon
Can anyone tell us the etymology of "jump the shark"? Who used it first and in what context?
[> [> For the origins of the term, check out <www.jumptheshark.com>... -- cjl, 10:57:04 10/18/04 Mon
You'll find out more about the subject than you ever wanted to know.
[> Graduation From High School -- Roy, 12:45:54 10/23/04 Sat
BUFFY jumped the shark after the Scoobies graduated from high school. Personally, I don' think the show got worse, because I prefer the later years. However, the media and many of the fans wanted everything to stay as it had been during the early years - with Buffy and her friends remaining adolescents and at Sunnydale High, and with Angel roaming about as the "love of her life".
Quite simply, the media and the fans didn't want Buffy to grow older and more complicated. They wanted her to remain frozen in adolescence forever.
[> [> Generalizations -- dmw, 15:19:25 10/29/04 Fri
BUFFY jumped the shark after the Scoobies graduated from high school. Personally, I don' think the show got worse, because I prefer the later years. However, the media and many of the fans wanted everything to stay as it had been during the early years - with Buffy and her friends remaining adolescents and at Sunnydale High, and with Angel roaming about as the "love of her life".
Quite simply, the media and the fans didn't want Buffy to grow older and more complicated. They wanted her to remain frozen in adolescence forever.
Once again, I find the need to contradict the generalizations being suggested in this thread. The big divide I see in people is between seasons 1-5 and seasons 6-7. The problem isn't that the show was changed or that it left high school; most of us were enthusiastic about leaving high school and the idea of character evolution. The problem people I've talked with had with later BtVS is actually that it was stagnant, repeating the same stories again in the same extremely limited setting. There were also some bad changes, some of which started in s5, like the dumbing down of the show with the annoying extended previouslies and hit-you-over-the-head hints about how the plot (yes, I know Dawn is the Key, you don't have to tell me dozens of times), and then in s6 it seems like they apparently decided viewers were too stupid even for reminders so they just gave up on continuity in many areas.
[> [> [> Re: Generalizations - Are You Sure? -- Lisa, 12:12:28 11/05/04 Fri
"Once again, I find the need to contradict the generalizations being suggested in this thread. The big divide I see in people is between seasons 1-5 and seasons 6-7. The problem isn't that the show was changed or that it left high school; most of us were enthusiastic about leaving high school and the idea of character evolution."
Are you saying that character evolution stopped after Season 5? I didn't get that impression. I felt that it continued, but on a new level, allowing Buffy to discover the real pangs of becoming an adult.
Or are you saying that you don't agree that the show jumped the shark after high school?
[> [> [> [> I'm sure -- dmw, 18:06:19 11/05/04 Fri
Are you saying that character evolution stopped after Season 5? I didn't get that impression. I felt that it continued, but on a new level, allowing Buffy to discover the real pangs of becoming an adult.
Or are you saying that you don't agree that the show jumped the shark after high school?
It depends on your definition of Jump the Shark. I think the best seasons of BtVS were 2 and 3, but I don't think it went bad until after The Gift, when I do think they ran out of ideas. Too many arcs and episodes, like the evil Willow arc or the execrable episode Him, were repeats in whole or in part, of earlier episodes or stories done in lower quality.
Mark your calendars: Nov. 16, Buffy S7 on DVD in the U.S.! -- Rob, 13:32:39 10/18/04 Mon