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Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- Tyreseus, 17:09:30 03/22/03 Sat

I was thinking back on the debate we had a few weeks ago about just how powerful Willow really is and analyzing the magics used in "Orpheus."

First of all, am I the only one who was a little annoyed that Willow was totally OK with the big mojo magics in LA? I mean, in Sunnydale she's still all worried and cautious, but she seemed to have no fear in LA.

But, seeing a repeat performance of the re-ensouling spell (as Willow points out - the first spell she ever did successfully - ignoring the group spell they tried in "I Only Have Eyes For You") shows how much Willow has come along in her control of magic.

In Becoming, Part 2, magic seemingly takes control of Willow. From Psyche's transcript"

Cut to the hospital. Willow gets weaker as she chants and breathes heavily.

Willow: Return. (pants) I call on... (pants)

Oz: (worried) Willow?

Cordelia: (worried) Are you okay?

Without warning Willow's head snaps back and she looks up with her eyes wide open. Her head snaps back down and her eyes stare into the Orb. She begins to chant steadily in Rumanian as though possessed.

Willow: Te implor, Doamne, nu ignora aceasta rugaminte.

Translation: I implore you, Lord, do not ignore this request.

Oz: (to Cordelia) Is this a good thing?

Willow: Nici mort, nici al fiintei...

Translation: Neither dead, nor of the living...

Cordelia: (freaked out) Hey, speak English!

Willow: Lasa orbita sa fie vasul care-i va transporta, sufletul la el.

Translation: Let this Orb be the vessel that will carry his soul to him.

However, in performing the same spell in Orpheus, the magic never "takes over" in the same way. Willow appears to be completely in control throughout the entire spell. Has Willow completely mastered her control over magic? Or is this spell just easier to control the second time around? Has her experience in "Get It Done" moved her past the guilt and fear that the magic will control her?

And it's not just in the re-ensouling spell that Willow shows this control. In her mystical battle with Evil!Cordelia, she's fine.

Based on her past experiences, when the voice started talking in her head, I expected her to flip out and think that maybe the FE was trying to take her over or something. If you knew that magic opened you up to evil impulses, and suddenly there's this angry voice shouting at your brain, wouldn't your first thought be "I'm being possessed?" Even with Wesley's quick ID of the voice as being the Beastmaster (can't stop referencing the book/movie/tv character in my head when they say this), I expected more doubt and angst from Willow.

Regarding the specific magics she used, I look forward to Masq's analysis of the spell to shatter the container. It seemed like vintage ritual+chanting done Willow style. By which I mean, she seemed to know the basic components, then commanded the spell in her own language and her own way. And the spell seemed like a form of telekinesis (floating pencil) with more purpose and mystical instruction.

As far as Evil!Cordelia's magic went, I'm a lot less impressed. Well, Cordelia has never exhibited this kind of magical power before, so I suppose that is impressive, but it raises some weird questions.

The communicate with the brain in a big scary voice spell... Some form of telepathy that masks the "voice" of the speaker. Or does it? If we operate under the idea that it's really Cordelia doing these things, then the spell is masking her voice - perhaps the little glowy crystal thing she holds is a telepathic voice modulator. On the other hand, if we assume that the the real power that looks like Cordelia is either the bundle of fetal joy or a hitchhiking evil, then maybe we are hearing its true voice.

The manifestation of the big floaty head... Big question is, was that just a harmless glamour, or the face of something real? Is that our little bundle of fetal joy? Is that the true appearance of a hitchhiking demon? Or is it just light and spectacle (pay no attention to the pregnant woman behind the curtain)? Obviously, it held no physical threat, or I assumed so when Willow ordered the gang to just ignore it. It's also possible that the big head could have hurt them, but Willow was holding it in check somehow through her own magic.

The minor earthquake... I'm wondering why? It's hard to tell if Evil!Cordelia was doing that or Willow. If it's Evil!Cordelia, it makes sense that she's trying to frighten them. If it's Willow, I don't get the purpose. I'm confused about who is in charge because of the dialogue. Somebody comments to the effect that it appears Willow can handle the fight when the floor started shaking, which seems to point to Willow as the power behind the San Andreas faultline. In the ultimate analysis, I'm personally going to write off the earthquake as mystical spill-over from a magical battle we can't even really see.

Stopping the marble... When Evil!Cordelia stopped the marble by holding up her hand, I assume that Evil!Cordelia is using telekinesis. But the question that bothers me then is, why didn't she float the knife behind Willow during the earlier scene and pull of Willow's famous pencil from behind trick from Choices?

That whole scene was kind of bothersome to me. What made Evil!Cordelia think that pregnant and lying down, she might be able to get the drop on super-wicca? And wouldn't killing Willow have been really difficult to explain to the AI team without tipping her hand?

Other magics, the Orpheus drug... Described as a drug that leads people down into Hell, it resulted in the famous slayer psychic dream situation. Unconscious, Faith, Angelus and Angel all find themselves reliving the life of Angel, complete with Barry Manilow soundtrack. Who was in charge of this little show? Angel sort of takes credit for it when "the rules change" toward the end of the dream, but I wonder if that means Angel was in charge from the first appearance on the docks, or just once they got to the alley. Was the entire dream a lesson on being a champion for Faith? Or could the Powers That Be have been in control?

Very strong echoes of Amends during that dream, don't you think? First, we've got Angel reliving his past through dreams, with a hitchhiking slayer along for the ride, and we've got the "don't die, fighting is better" moral. Which is why I think the Powers That Be might have had a hand in this, and I suspect that maybe they did during Amends as well.

We've never been shown anything that indicates that the FE can manipulate the dreams of people. It's power lies in the manifestations of the dead during waking hours. I'm reevaluating the role of the dreams in Amends with this idea in mind. Why was Buffy there if not to bring her into Angel's struggle with his ghosts? Is it possible that the PTB wanted Angel to confront his past with Buffy's help? The FE was trying to get Angel to either kill Buffy of himself, but the PTB brought them together through dreams to prevent that from happening.

Maybe, then, the journey to Hell wasn't exactly that. It was a life-lesson sent from the PTB, and like most lessons truly worth learning, it involved acknowledging your mistakes and making better decisions for the future. It was painful, but it was meant to be. Perhaps the PTB have an "end justifyies the means" philosophy as well.

Back to the Orpheus drug... why do vamps seek it out? Beyond the rush, it seems to me that the psychic hallucinogenic effects of Orpheus are not unlike Peyote or other hallucinogens many cultures have used to induce vision-quests or psychic enlightenment. Are there many vamps seeking enlightenment? I thought they all felt, like Vamp!Holden "connected to a great evil." Or maybe a drug that leads its users "into hell" is exactly what a vamp would enjoy... their idea of a vision quest is something that shows them pain and suffering.

Another Willow magic question. If she can extract a bullet from Buffy and speed her own healing of eaten flesh, why didn't she at least try to heal Faith's neck wounds? I know the number one priority was getting Angel's soul showed back up his... but I would think that spending a few minutes caring for the bite might have made Faith's battle with the OD on Orpheus less critical and life-threatening. Same applies to the supposed wound Cordelia was bed-ridden from. Can anyone think of a reason Willow didn't at least say goodbye to Cordelia?

Wow, this is the longest post I've attempted since Voynok started devouring my stuff last week. I really hope this doesn't get eaten, too. Great to see the board working again.

Ty
[> At least ME's view was more balanced than their 'Crusades mentality' upheld in season 6 on magick.*L -- Briar Rose (don't get ME's prejudices), 17:45:17 03/22/03 Sat

[> A few replies. . . -- Finn Mac Cool, 18:17:53 03/22/03 Sat

"First of all, am I the only one who was a little annoyed that Willow was totally OK with the big mojo magics in LA? I mean, in Sunnydale she's still all worried and cautious, but she seemed to have no fear in LA."

Could be that, in LA, there's no one she feels real up to revealing her extreme insecurities to. Or possibly she dealt with the idea on her way from Sunnydale.

"Stopping the marble... When Evil!Cordelia stopped the marble by holding up her hand, I assume that Evil!Cordelia is using telekinesis. But the question that bothers me then is, why didn't she float the knife behind Willow during the earlier scene and pull of Willow's famous pencil from behind trick from Choices?"

The most likely possibility is that neither Cordelia nor the writers thought of this. Another possible reason is that what she was doing with the marble was merely trying to counteract Willow's magic.

"And wouldn't killing Willow have been really difficult to explain to the AI team without tipping her hand?"

She was in a desperate situation at the moment. Probably figured it might be worth tipping her hand if it meant removing the only person who could take Angelus away from her (and she could always blame it on somebody else, like she did with Lilah).

"Very strong echoes of Amends during that dream"

Yes indeed, especially with the 20's dream sequence, I thought. It was like the resverse of the many Angel dream sequences we've seen before. Usually, we have Angel flashing back to something really evil he did as Angelus. Here, we got Angelus flashing back to something good he did as Angel. While Angel saving a puppy might seem corny, it's actually neat in that Angelus never passes up even the most trivial opportunity to cause, so a trivial act of good must really irk him. Plus, anyone see paralells to Angelus nailing a puppy to something, as mentioned in BBB and "Awakening".

"Back to the Orpheus drug... why do vamps seek it out? Beyond the rush, it seems to me that the psychic hallucinogenic effects of Orpheus are not unlike Peyote or other hallucinogens many cultures have used to induce vision-quests or psychic enlightenment. Are there many vamps seeking enlightenment?"

Well, maybe it's like many drugs in that sometimes there are good trips, and sometimes there are bad trips. Angel and Faith (with their seperate torture moments), got a bad trip. Or maybe this was partly due to the fact that Faith overdosed.

"Another Willow magic question. If she can extract a bullet from Buffy and speed her own healing of eaten flesh, why didn't she at least try to heal Faith's neck wounds? I know the number one priority was getting Angel's soul showed back up his... but I would think that spending a few minutes caring for the bite might have made Faith's battle with the OD on Orpheus less critical and life-threatening. Same applies to the supposed wound Cordelia was bed-ridden from. "

When Willow did that healing trick, she had just soaked up magic from those books. At that time, she was powerful enough to fly, rip a police station building apart, and flay someone alive. So far this season, what with being afraid of losing control, she can't use her magic to it's full potential.
[> Re: Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- Corwin of Amber, 18:30:46 03/22/03 Sat

Good post.

I interpreted the earthquake as a side effect of the magical forces that were confronting in the hotel. Something had to give in the battle between Evil Cordy and Willow, and it happened to be a nearby faultline. At least nobody's head exploded.

As far as the Orpheus drug goes...i think Wesley's description was metaphorical. It's a mystically enhanced hallucinogen, and hallucinogens could be described as putting the user into a waking dream state. Given the psychic dreams slayers tend to have, the outcome was no surprise. In fact, I'd suggest slayers stay away from that stuff...or take some peyote if they're really desperate for help from the great beyond. Although I wouldn't put it past Faith to have already tried the stuff.

Man, theres a bad fanfic in there. There was a Simpsons episode where Homer had some hallucinogenic chilli, made from peppers grown by inmates in a Guatemalan insane asylum. One of the best ever. Surreality up there with 'Restless'.

As far as Willow healing Faith's wounds...the physical wounds weren't what they were worried about. I'm under the impression that if a slayer isn't immediately killed by her wounds, she will recover. Witness Faith's previous coma.
[> Re: Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- Rufus, 19:52:34 03/22/03 Sat

As far as Evil!Cordelia's magic went, I'm a lot less impressed. Well, Cordelia has never exhibited this kind of magical power before, so I suppose that is impressive, but it raises some weird questions.

Evil Cordy said something to the effect of "if this were only a few weeks later." I think that whatever is controlling Cordy or whatever Cordy is may have limitations when it comes to power in this reality....for now.
[> Re: Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- lunasea, 20:35:42 03/22/03 Sat

Willow wasn't just doing magic. She was saving her friend. That was her focus. In "Becoming" she was also experimenting with power and magic. It wasn't just about Angel or helping Buffy. She was using magic to help, what it was designed for. It was a tool and not something she was doing. She was completely casual the whole time.

I am curious whether since the magic came from Willow this time and not some Romanian who essentially took her over/possessed her, and Willow has no vengeance towards Angel, will the vengeance/happiness claus be part of it and how with Angel find out about this.

In Orpheus, Angel knew that Faith had seen him drink. I believe he was aware of their presence the entire time. That is what made it Angelus' hell, that Angel ignored him.

As for Amends, I would say the First did put the dreams in Angel. This sucked Buffy into them, since they are connected. If you have a string between two objects and pull on the string, both objects feel it. I think the first was after the string and not the objects at that point in the game.

The PTB tend to be the Powers that sit on their Be-hinds.
[> [> Re: Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- DEN, 21:56:44 03/22/03 Sat

And at seventh and last, for good and ill, Willow's use of magic has ultimately always been about helping, not about power--something ME forgot, or chose to overlook, in s6-7. So it's not illogical that magic done to help a friend would flow smoothly.
[> [> [> Re: Magic in Orpheus (spoilers for Orpheus, obviously, plus BtVS to date) -- lunasea, 06:06:32 03/23/03 Sun

something ME forgot, or chose to overlook, in s6-7

It is probably chose. They didn't exactly overlook it. They showed how power corrupts. People focused on the magic as drugs metaphor rather than why drugs and magic are both addictive.

Willow's magic started out as many things. It was her intellectual curiousity about this world that she knew nothing of prior to meeting Buffy. It was her way of helping, but it was also a way she could control things that go bump in the night. As she got more proficient in it, it started to fill all those holes in her. The only thing those holes can be filled with are ourselves.

Tara says if magic was meant to be used that way, it wouldn't change Willow so much. Those who have those holes filled don't use magic like Willow does. They can accept the world around them. Willow couldn't and used magic to alter the world to her liking, wonderfully shown with Amy. Amy just wasn't a witch to pal around with. The Amy-rat was something Willow was trying to help. That became a symbol of her power once she could finally de-rat her. That power corrupted her.

Willow wasn't altering the world to her liking. She was *restoring* Angel's soul. She was putting things back to the way they should be. "Angel is the one that belongs on the outside."

"Sounds like you could use a witch" not the most powerful uber-witch in the Western Hemisphere. The entire episode was Willow admitting what she had done, but not using it to either build herself up or tear herself down. She talked about it with the same acceptance that Angel does of his soulless days. It was great.
Empowerment Angel-style (summary Orpheus) Part 1 -- lunasea, 20:22:23 03/22/03 Sat

Empowerment. This is the goal of the feminist movement. The right to vote. The right to own property. The right to your own body. Equal pay for equal work. All these things were about giving women power over their own lives and the world in which they live. Occasionally this attitude that people should have this power rubs off on others.

One of these others is Joss Whedon. This professed ardent feminist not only wrote a TV series that empowered that little blond girl who gets killed in horror movies so that she could take back the night, but he empowered those around him to excel. He took Marti Noxon and convinced her to be executive producer with him, promising it would make her a better writer. She is now working on her own pilot and is too busy to write episode 7.21. The two people that are writing that episode started out as assistant story editors. They are now co-executive producers. He has pushed his actors to excel. How many people would have given someone relatively inexperienced as David Boreanaz his own series and demanded so much of him there? That is the beauty of the Buffyverse, the message exists in not only in the story, but in the actual lives of the writers and actors.

This message was the focal point of "Orpheus." The myth of Orpheus is well known. Joss and Co put their own feminist slant on it. Instead of a guy going down to bring back his wife from hell, this time the guy goes down and tells the girl to get her ass back to earth herself. She doesn't have to rely on his faith in the gods, so she doesn't get sent back to hell when that faith isn't strong enough. Instead it is *her* faith that matters. *Her* faith gets her back and she ends up saving the guy.

The show opens with the resolution to last week's cliff hanger. In the myth Orpheus, a bite from a snake sends Eurydice to hell. In the Buffyverse version, a bite from a snake of another kind, Angelus, combined with the self-inflicted bite of the enchanted drug orpheus sends our heroine there. Already Eurydice is playing a more active role than she did in the myth. She isn't some passive object of desire.

Angelus passes out followed by Faith, who responds to an inquiry from Wesley about if she is ok with "kicked his ass" rather than her standard "five by five." It isn't how *she* is doing, but how her mission is. Angelus is dragged into the Hyperion by Gunn who calls to Connor for help. Fred wants to know where Faith is, but Gunn brings everyone's attention to the matter at hand, Angelus and his need for stronger restraints. Fred brings over leg irons to shackle Angelus with, since Gunn only had rope in the car to bind Angelus with. Gunn was unprepared to handle Angelus.

Wesley enters carrying an unconscious and badly bruised Faith. Connor is immediately concerned, but Gunn draws his attention back to Angelus. Connor is visibly conflicted, but he is needed to deal with Angelus, since he is the only superbeing left conscious. Fred and Lorne go upstairs to take care of Faith. There isn't really a whole lot they can do. Both Angelus and Faith are in comas and are mumbling, Angelus is saying "kill you," which startles Gunn and Connor as they drag him back into his cage and restrain him. Faith is muttering "scratch you out." Lorne notices the mark on Faith's arm. Fred is horrified by the bite mark on her neck and gently cleans the wound. Lorne accuses Wesley of shooting up Faith to feed to Angelus, but Wesley insists that Faith "knew the risks." Lorne said she couldn't have.

After Connor makes sure Angelus is secure, he goes to check on Cordy, who is not in a good mood at having her plan messed with so much. Cordy only knows what Connor tells her, so she pumps him for information. In her frustration, she shoves Connor into the wall. He is surprised not by her reaction, but that the sanctuary spell isn't working on her. "We are different," she tells Connor. Both Cordy and Angelus will show escalating tempers as they are subjected to things they don't want. We will also see Angelus' view of the human condition later.

Angelus and Faith's comas are brought about by the drug "Orpheus," which "takes you down to hell and leaves you there." Nice transition from that to the steamer bringing Angel to America. We find out Angelus is non-corporal when Angel walks right though him, paying him no attention. Faith then appears and Angelus tries to hit her and goes right through her, too. Faith teaches us the definition of insanity that she learned in murder rehab "performing the same task over and over and expecting different results."

Angelus is upset that Faith is there. Faith says this definitely wasn't her life. She is probably there because she is dying and she gets to babysit him until he is resouled. After that she is "dust in the wind, candle in the wind. There will definitely be a wind theme." This ties to all the blowing references Angelus was using to belittle the Beast Master. Wind can be powerful like a hurricane and cause much damage, like Faith did in "Release." Wind can be harnessed by wind mills to make it incredibly productive. Wind can also be just a breeze that even the flowers can withstand. Which way will Faith go? There is definitely a wind theme with her. What kind of wind will she be?

Cut to Chicago, late 20's based on the cars. Angelus is freaking out at having to watch what he knows is coming up. Angel is sitting across the street on a bench. As we see a car coming down the road, Angelus is freaking out more and more. "It's coming" he says panicking. Angel saves a puppy. Faith bursts out laughing and Angelus realizes he is in hell. He is reliving Angel's good deeds, but that isn't the real purpose of what we just saw. We see how tempted Angel is by contact with humans and how he can't handle it. A woman is grateful to him for saving her puppy. Angelus is flipping out that he doesn't eat her. Angel can't even manage to say "You're welcome" or anything nice. He just tells her to get lost. He is the one that is lost. Neither Angelus or Faith realize what they are seeing. Angelus is focusing on his own pain and Faith is building up her role model.

Back at the Hyperion, Connor is saying they have to kill Angelus. Wesley still wants to re-ensoul Angel, especially since Faith may have given her life to do it. In enters...Willow and screams of glee were heard across the country. Wesley thinks that Willow must have been mystically called and Willow answers, "more like the call of Fred." "Of course, call the only living being that has re-ensouled Angel." Fred empowers Willow to be there with that phone call (and a thousand curses on UPN for not letting us see that exchange first.) Willow and Fred share a lot of compliments this episode and have great chemistry together. Each woman really does lift up the other. Fred was feeling bad in "Release" for falling for the phony charm and not figuring anything out about the BeastMaster. Willow compliments her on the thoroughness of her research methodologies. She likes the way she rings her bell. It was nice not only to see old Willow back, but a happier, more confident Fred that resulted as well.

Willow goes to see Cordy. The parallel is set up. Angel/Angelus as Willow/Cordy. Cordy asks if Willow has seen Angelus, and Willow shivers saying "too many memories" and that she is glad she doesn't have to be in the same room as Angelus to re-ensoul him. Cordy wonders if Willow will be able to do the spell to try to cast doubt and Willow remarks casually that it was the "first spell I ever learned." They talk about why Willow is having difficulties with her task. She can't locate the jar with magic, she has already tried. Then Cordy screws up and says "it's a tough nut to crack." That gives Willow an idea. She can break the jar from a distance. She doesn't even need to know where the jar is. Cordy throws the knife she has been fingering as Willow leaves the room.

The memories of Angelus make Angel shiver as well and he is glad that he doesn't have to be in the same room with him. Angelus tries to fill Angel with doubt so that he will feed again, but Angel had a soul before he ever became a vampire. Back in the hell-trip we see how much difficulty Angel had with his reacquired soul. Angel manages to deal with this from a distance, by helping others rather than himself. Angelus tries to derail this, but Angel leaves in safety. Willow is there to re-ensoul Angel. She is on a mission to help someone else. Angel is in the hell-trip to motivate Faith. He is also on a mission to help someone else. Cordy wants to use Angelus for her own ends. Angelus wants to beat on Faith to help lessen his own pain. As he says in "Release" the only way to stop the pain is to "hurt someone else."

Next Angelus and Faith are in a donut shop in the 70s. Cordy is trying to contact Angelus, but all he hears is a buzzing sound. Cordy is not happy that he isn't responding. She is trying to wake him up, like that would help. Cordy looses a lot of power this episode. She doesn't even have enough to combat Willow. "If only this was a few weeks later."

Poor Angelus has to be subjected to Barry Manilow (then again, so do we). There are plenty of people around the world that like Barry Manilow, but one thing about his music is it is safe. No anger. Nothing that deep. It is the Hallmark cards of the musical world. They are pretty songs and some find comfort in them. They are still pretty tame. Angel hid from the harder hitting music that was being written every bit as much as he did from people. While Spike is thrashing to punk, Angel is swooning to Manilow.

It is fun watching Angelus get upset over this and over how Angel reacts to a couple walking by. Angelus tells Faith that every time Angel gets close, he is the one that feels it. Faith takes pleasure in telling him that Angel is the one that belongs on the outside. Then something changes. Before Angelus is sitting across from Faith. Now he just appears next to her. Instead of just getting upset by what Angel is doing, he is now interested in Faith's perceptions. He can play his favorite game again, "Let's taunt X," this time X being Faith. A robber comes in and holds up the shop. We see Angel at the end of the counter doing nothing. The clerk gets shot. Angel runs over to the guy and tells him everything is going to be ok. Angelus is quiet during all of this to let Faith soak it all in.

Back at the Hyperion, Willow is getting ready to do the first spell to break the jar. Wesley opens up to her that he has gone pretty dark, but she wouldn't understand. She glibly tosses off that she flayed a man and tried to end the world. Wesley is taken aback, not because Willow was so dark, but because what he did was really nothing compared to that and he feels silly for being so upset about it. Willow tries to comfort him by saying that was pretty dark, but he realizes it wasn't. Willow is amazing this episode. First she empowers Fred and now she empowers Wesley. The way she can talk about what she did last year allows other people to realize she can empathize with them and they can move beyond what they did. Willow travels to the personal hells of Fred and Wesley and empowers them to come back.

Back at the donut shop, Angel is holding the clerk who was shot trying to comfort him. Faith is touched by this. Angelus has a "wait until you see what happens" look on his face. The man dies and Angel goes to leave. The temptation is too much and he locks the door and feeds on the corpse. Angelus revels in this and Faith is shocked. The wound on her neck starts to bleed and Angelus remarks "You didn't think my hell was private." Did Angel choose to move just a little too slow. As a murderer Faith knows how delicious that blurry line tastes.

Faith has just found out her role model isn't so role modely. She enters the barrens and begins to cry "like they're letting to of everything that meant something." We don't see Angelus in the barrens, just Faith crying as she was completely disillusioned. Angelus has been unaffected by this trip. Lorne tells Connor he can hold Faith's hand. He steps forward to take it, but Wesley enters. Connor tells Wesley that Faith was brave and died in battle, trying to comfort himself more than let Wesley know something he already knew. Wesley says it is time to do the spell.

(cont)
[> Empowerment Angel-style (summary Orpheus) Part 2 -- lunasea, 20:23:41 03/22/03 Sat

In the lobby, Gunn decides to keep an eye on Angelus while the spell is going on. Cordy knocks Willow to the floor with magic and starts talking in her head like she did with Angelus. It reduces Willow to a little frightened girl, for a moment. Then she regains her composure and casts out the voice. We get a bit of a showdown between Cordy and Willow, without Willow knowing who Cordy is (much as Angel doesn't really know who Angelus is),

Willow does her spell on the ball that will crack the glass. "Open the window, fill this stone, inside outside, 2 made one." From that we cut to Faith waking up in an alley, much like the one we saw in "Becoming." Faith struggles to get up. The shadows make prison bars, but she wakes up outside of them. Angelus' voice shows up to accompany her and he still plays "Let's taunt Faith." She tries to fire back, but she really isn't in the game. He appears in the exact same spot she did, but as much as Faith struggled with getting up, Angelus rises in classic vampire fashion.

Angelus taunts and Faith tries to resist. She knows she is dying, but she keeps telling Angelus that hs is "about to get what is coming to you." It doesn't phase Angelus. He has "friends in high places...him not being one of them." We see Angel who has obviously not bathed in a while going after rats. Faith is disgusted and so are we as we see Angel feed. Angelus continues to belittle Angel and Faith continues to try and defend him. Faith tells him "he's paying for what he did." Angelus informs her "he's hiding from what he is." Angelus is still convinced he is in hell and there is no purpose in it. "Which might be a big Psych 101 revelation for you, cupcake, but I already know this crap, so why do I have to go through it again?"

Angel looks up at them. "Maybe because it isn't about you, jackass." From that they cut back to the hotel. We have black eyed Willow and white eyed Cordy going at it. The battle is heating up. The perspective of the battle is interesting. Cordy is doing it for her selfish purposes. Willow is not. She is trying to re-ensoul Angel. "You want to go Glinda" Cordy said earlier. Cordy is taking everything personally. Willow isn't going after the BeastMaster. She is just trying to help her friend.

Behind Willow we get a floaty head. Looked a lot like the First to me. The First is about disconnection and separation. Willow keeps focused on saving Angel. She doesn't even look at the floaty head. Connor, Wesley and Fred do. Willow tells the ball "Find your target, leave my side" and send it after the soul. Cordy stops it, but she is taking things more and more personal "now she is on my last nerve." Connor distracts Cordy and the ball manages to break the jar.

Back in NYC, Angelus realizes that Angel is the one that is "behind the whole true Hollywood sob story." That puts the episode in a different perspective. Angel walks right through and ignores Angelus when he arrives in NYC. Angelus' hell isn't just Angel's good deeds. It was the way that Angel ignored him. It was his insubstantiality that allowed Angel to be able to walk through him.

Faith says hi to Angel and he wants to know "why are you still here?" Faith manages to find a bit of her self and take a slam against Angelus. "Then what?" Angel wants to know. Earlier Wesley wanted to know if Faith was OK, and she answered with her mission. Now Angel wants to know about her and again she answers with her mission. After the mission, what does Faith have to motivate her? Angel is concerned about this. Faith should be moving on. She accomplished her mission. She shouldn't be here any more.

Angelus doesn't like being ignored and interjects himself into this by kicking Faith into the wall, putting her in the shadows that look like prison bars. Angel redirects his attention to what he is really mad at. Both Angel and Angelus are looking forward to this. It is winner take all, or so they think. Angel throws the first punch, but Angelus blocks it. Then he manages to knock Angelus down. Angel yells at Faith to get up. She cops out that she is dying. Angel tells her that is a cop out. Angelus again inserts himself into this, belittling Angel for being "so concerned with the human condition." Then Angelus tosses Angel and kicks Faith. "It's no big mystery, man. They suffer, they die. That's what they're there for." Angel won't accept this and tackles Angelus.

He still tries to reach Faith. She has been severely disillusioned and let go of everything that meant something to her. The only thing that really meant something to her was Angel. Angel tells her that she built him up too high. "Even with a soul, I've done things I wished 1,000 times I could take back." Angelus gets infuriated by this and comes at him.

Back at the hotel, Connor is concerned about Cordy. He is his Daddy's boy. Connor isn't worried about his own safety. He is trying to help someone else. Cordy is so worked up over her plans unraveling that she hits Connor over the head with a glass vase. Then she does a number on Connor. Connor does have a soul and he is about to do something that he will probably wish he could take back. Cordy doesn't want Connor to go after Willow, but Angelus.

Back in the lobby, they are getting ready for the resouling. "Angel's soul is just floating around out there." Cut back to Cordy telling Connor he has to kill his father, before anything else goes wrong, namely Angel figuring out what is going on and not just derailing her plans, but her. In the lobby they are starting the spell, a spell we have all heard before.

Cordy plays on Connor to get him to kill Angelus. It was nice that Connor had to be convinced and didn't immediately jump to do something he has wanted to do for a year. First Cordy plays on "the only way to guarantee our family's safety." Nice edit to Gunn and Angel in the cage, Connor real family. Next she uses "You're not just protecting me. You're protecting the world. Sometimes one death can spare infinite pain." Cut to Lorne holding Faith's hand.

Back in NYC Angel is still trying to reach Faith. Angelus is getting upset at being ignored "Anybody notice a battle with your alter-ego going on here?" Angel doesn't. He is more concerned with Faith. This is something "I've been waiting a long time for." When he finally gets it, what is his concern? Empowering Faith. That is why I love Angel. In "Amends" Buffy empowered Angel. Her concern wasn't this big honking evil. It was Angel. Here in its reprise, we see how far Angel has come with his concern and empowering Faith.

Back in the Hyperion, Connor walks in dramatic slow motion down the hall to do what he feels he must. The voice over is great. He is concerned with what to tell the others. He is his father's son. Cordy says not to tell them. He is concerned with the sanctuary spell (like Angel is concerned with the demon in him). Cordy tell him she can fix it. "We're special Connor." This is a tactic the First has used. You are a god. Connor will be protecting his family, the world and he is special so he has the right to do this. The others couldn't handle it. They aren't special.

Angel and Angelus are still fighting. Angel throws Angelus into a wall and goes over to Faith. He is telling her that she saw his lowest point. He thought he "could make up for it by disappearing." What is the definition of insanity? Performing the same task over and over and expecting different results. Faith is doing what Angel did. As Angelus said "I'm sorry. I give up. I'm gonna live in the sewer" or in Faith's case, in jail." Faith isn't going to get different results. There isn't a point where you pay your dues. "Our time is never up, Faith. We pay for everything." Angel empathizes with what Faith is going through. He knows it hurts. He doesn't give her platitudes saying it doesn't or it won't.

In the basement, Connor knocks Gunn out. The spell is midway through. Angel pulls out his ace in the hole. "I need you to fight. You understand what I'm saying." It is no longer just about Faith. Angel has given her motivation. He needs her to save him. Angelus hits Angel and has the upper hand now. Faith stands up. Angelus swings at her with the pipe he is carrying and Faith disappears. Faith's eyes open and she bolts out of bed.

Willow is getting to the end of the spell. She is at the Romanian part, but she isn't possessed this time. Will vengeance be part of it this time, since the spell came from Willow and she holds no vengeance towards Angel? How would they find this out? We see the soul hit Angel and Angelus. The light of the soul came out of Angel's eyes, mouth and heart. It was only in Angelus' eyes and mouth and he was ringed by the light that came from Angel. As Angel is resouled, we see Angelus fold back into Angel.

In the cage, Angel says "I need you to fight." Connor stands over him with a stake at the ready "I'm pretty clear on what you need." Faith stops him and gives him he ass kicking he has needed since he dumped his father into the ocean. Lorne rushes downstairs and says "She's alive, it's a miracle." It is truly a miracle. Angel reached her. Faith kicks Connor against the cage and Angel grabs him telling him it's over.

Nice wrap up. Angel and Faith empathize on their recent experience. Then she tells him she is going to Sunnydale because that is where she is needed. Connor admits he screwed up and Faith forgives him saying that only means he is one of them. It really shows how far she has come. She says her good byes to everyone and so does Willow. Fred gives her a book that has some stuff about the Hellmouth in it and she mentions Codex (setting up the crossover?). Willow says the dreaded B-word and the Buffy/Angel theme starts up. GRRRRR (no argh). Angel starts up one of his wonderful speeches and evil Cordy dressed up as evil should shows off her belly to stop it. Wonder if one day, CCs kid is going to show these shows to his friends and say "that's me in there."

It was one of my favorite AtS episodes. The themes of empowerment was all over the place. The hell-trip, which seems a way to punish or enlighten Angelus actually ends up being a way to empower Faith. Eurydice finds her "faith" and returns to the surface so she can rescue the guy. It was an incredible spin that takes a story about weakness and turns it into one about empowerment. Willow empowers both Fred and Wesley, who really needed it. We see evil loose power in this episode. Not sure how strong Cordy's hold over Connor is going to be after she convinced him to do something he admits was messing up. Also, without the soul, Cordy has no hold over Angel. Angel has been empowered to fight Angelus again. This episode has really empowered Willow. It is the first serious magic she has done since going evil and she wasn't worried at all. She focused on saving Angel and stayed good.

One of the first steps to integrating our shadow is to realize our ego isn't so pure. Angel really did that this episode. Now he has to realize his shadow isn't so dark or why it is. Then he will be truly empowered all the way to self-actualization. I look forward to watching the changes within Angel this season.
[> [> Re: Empowerment Angel-style (summary Orpheus) Part 2 -- Alison, 20:37:53 03/22/03 Sat

Great post..it gives me some perspective on an episode I didn't enjoy as much as I would have liked. I love the subversion in this episode though..the way, as you say, the classic myth is twisted, the way Cordelia is evil yet has white eyes, while Willow has black. I think I will have to re-re-watch now!
[> Re the spiking -- KdS, 02:43:25 03/23/03 Sun

Thanks for pointing out that Faith rather than Angel can be seen as Eurydice in this ep, and the feminist recasting of the myth. I haven't seen the episode yet - only seen synopses, and I have some questions regarding the Wes-Faith relationship:

Why did Wes pick a powerful hallucinogen to drug Faith and Angelus instead of a simple anaesthetic? Was it the only drug that would knock out Angelus fast enough that he wouldn't lethally drain Faith?

Did Wes tell Faith that the drug was a hallucinogen? The synopsis I've seen implied that his conversation with Lorne showed that he didn't.

If Faith didn't know, did she guess, or did she think it was just some random mystical vamp/Slayer thing (as I recall she hasn't been bitten before)? And if she does guess later, how much reconstructive surgery will Wes need?

I know you can point to the good, empowering effects in the end, but I've always seen shooting up an unknowing person with psychedelics as a fairly immoral thing to do, putting it mildly. I have to draw parallels with a certain other tradition involving the drugging of Slayers (which so far as I know Faith never experienced). Was Wes making up for a lost opportunity?
[> [> Addendum -- KdS, 02:56:18 03/23/03 Sun

And if Faith is Eurydice and Angel Orpheus, does that make Angelus the snake and Wes the rapist satyr Aristaeus? Or is it the other way round?
[> [> [> Re: Addendum -- lunasea, 05:49:52 03/23/03 Sun

Angelus combined with the syringe that Faith uses to inject herself would be the snake. It takes both to fully activate orpheus and send Faith to hell.

Aristaeus would be Faith's guilty conscience, her past. That is what she has been running from. What she did to Wesley is part of this, but I would be willing to bet that the biggest part is not the murder, but what she did to Buffy.

Wesley's role in "Orpheus" wasn't in the Faith/Angel part of the recreation of the myth. Wesley was in the Willow part. Willow plays Orpheus to Wesley and Fred's Eurydice. Willow helps bring Wesley and Fred out of their personal hells with her wonderful presence. Chaining a girl up in your closet isn't much compaired to flaying a guy and almost ending the world.
[> [> Re: the spiking -- lunasea, 05:05:03 03/23/03 Sun

Wes didn't shoot Faith up. Faith did. We see it as a flashback. Angelus is busy tormenting Wesley when Faith realizes she isn't going to be able to beat him physically, so she pulls out a syringe and shoots herself up. The bite of the snake is a combination of voluntarily letting Angelus bite her and voluntarily shooting herself up. She isn't some passive victim, but in the feminist theme of the Buffyverse, she makes it so she gets bit by the snake and even bites herself figuratively. She taunts Angelus so that he does bite her. Wesley is put out of commission for this. Faith takes the initiative, much as she does at the beginning of "Release" when she picks up the bag containing the tranquilizers.

Why orpheus rather than the tranq drug? Orpheus is an enchanted drug. Seems the bite is important to its potency. Until Faith is biten, she is able to fight fairly well, though the effects of the drug are visable in her laughter. If Wes had used a tranquillizer, Faith would have been toast early as the effects hit her. She might not even have been able to coax Angelus into biting her. If she had just collapsed for seemingly no reason, I seriously doubt a predator would have just started feeding.

Faith was aware that the drug was pretty dangerous. She had seen the drug den at the Demon bar, but she probably was unaware of the whole going to hell aspect of it. She did know that the drug could make someone "fly." Wes and Faith are cool now, as we see by the ending. He doesn't have to worry about future reconstructive surgery.
Ignoring Angelus (spoiler = Orpheus) -- lunasea, 08:36:46 03/23/03 Sun

"Orpheus" really showed why I love Angel and AtS. Silly me thought that they were actually going to follow the myth rather than put their own amazing spin on it. I loved that spin. It is no wonder Joss is an ardent atheist. He needs no belief in god to empower him. (Adler's comments on religion and power would be an interesting thread to pursue). Angelus does. When Faith tells Angelus "I can hear the holler in the distance. It tells me you are about to get what is coming to you," Angelus responds "Or not. I've got friends in high places." Angelus is powerless and has to rely on some higher power to save him. It doesn't come through.

The episode is not only about empowering the good guys, but shows how little power the bad guys really have. The episode starts with Faith tricking Angelus and him loosing consciousness. "What have you done?" Angelus thinks that he is the one with the power when he bites Faith. If she won't admit to being like him, or if she is no longer like that, he will force her to be that way. Faith is actually the one with the power. Angelus looses even the ability to remain conscious.

Gunn and Connor shackle and cage Angelus, symbolic of how little power he has in the hell-trip. When Angelus is fully restrained physically, the hell-trip begins. This starts with Angel walking right through him. This annoys Angelus. Faith shows up to taunt him and that annoys him also. Angelus has no control over anything here. Not where he is. He can't interact with anyone. Faith is there even though he doesn't want any witnesses.

Angelus belittles Angel, but Angel pays him no mind. The audience is under the impression that Angel cannot see or hear Faith and Angelus. We later learn that Angel knows that Faith saw him drink and is "the one behind this whole true Hollywood sob story." Angel came to America to ignore Angelus, symbolized by Angel walking right through him, not the other way around.

At this point, we haven't seen Angel do anything good. It is still infuriating Angelus. He gets so mad that he lashes out at Faith. As we learned in "Release," the only way to stop the pain is to hurt someone else. The more agitated Angelus gets, the more he lashes out at the only person who acknowledges him. We learn what really aggravates Angelus this episode. It isn't so much being denied evil as it is being ignored.

Next scene in the hell trip is Angel saving a puppy. It isn't the good deed of saving a puppy that makes Angelus mad. It is what comes next, with Angel not taking that prime opportunity to feed. Faith is focused on the good deed of her role model and doesn't really see what is going on. This scene echoes "City of" where the girls are grateful that Angel has saved them and Angel notices the cut on one and tells them to "Stay away from me." This episode isn't about Angel's good deeds. It is about his ignoring who/what he is and what that leads to. He accepts it, but tries to ignore it. Not quite denial, other than denying that this won't work.

That is followed by the donut shop. Manilow really annoys Angelus. According to Angel in "Judgment," he likes it because "I kind of think it's pretty." Angel is just trying to find a little beauty and isn't doing much of anything with his life.

(an aside: This episode is actually part of a trilogy that is "Amends," "Judgment" and "Orpheus." "Amends" is there is a way to make amends "Judgment" is that road is pretty rocky. "Orpheus" is there is no end to that road.)

A couple walks by and Angel is visibly shaken, but won't give in to the urge to feed. It drives Angelus nuts. When Angel gets close, it cuts Angelus. He calms down when he knows what is about to happen. He gets to play "Let's taunt Faith," but even better for a few moments, Angel cannot ignore Angelus. Cordy reintegrates this with her comments to Connor. At this point, Angelus has a bit of control over things. He can pop from sitting across from Faith to sitting next to her. He is able to get to her with his taunts. He sends Faith to the Barrens.

Angel is so ashamed of what he did and that he cannot resist temptation that he gives up and lives in the sewer. He completely tries to ignore Angelus. Angel continues to belittle Angel and Angel continues to ignore him. This whole trip is still about Angelus' hell which isn't so private.

Then Angel acknowledges him. "Maybe because it isn't about you, jackass." The rules change and Angelus becomes corporal. Angelus only has form as long as Angel acknowledges him. Instincts take some form in the psyche as archetypes. Angelus is instinct. Instinct has no form of its own until we express it psychically or through action. That is what aggravates Angelus this episode. It isn't just the repression of Angel's bloodlust. It is how Angel ignores him.

When Angel acknowledges Angelus and gives him corporal form, Angelus is happy again. Both are looking forward to this battle. Angel is more concerned with Faith. This annoys Angelus. He is upset that Angel is concerned with the human condition, not something Angelus cares about. He is upset about those Manilow concerts, not something Angelus would want to go to. He is upset that Angel is ignoring the battle with his alter-ego, something he wants. He is upset that Angel moralizes, something he despises. Angel does what he wants to and ignores Angelus.

That is what upsets Angelus. Angelus has no power to express himself unless Angel allows it. Angelus is the neglected child who does bad things to get attention. Will Angel continue to just ignore/suppress him or will he actually find a way to acknowledge and integrate Angelus?

My experience is that this dark side we are scared of isn't nearly so dark when we look at it and expose it to the light. It becomes darker when we suppress it. It feeds on everything we send to the shadow. If we actually deal with things, it can be weakened. Angelus says he lashes out because he is forced to be someone he isn't. The only way to make the pain go away is to hurt someone else. In "Billy" Angel says it was all about the pain and the pleasure. If Angel wants to not lash out, he will have to find a way to be himself. Not easy when you are a vampire, (unless they symbolize this with Shanshu). If Angel wants to no longer be in pain, he will have to deal with the cause of that pain.

How will our hero deal with the reminder of Cordy/Connor's ick-fest? How will he find a way to be himself sexually with the curse? How will he find a way to deal with his feelings about Buffy? These are all things he will have to figure out this season.

Just helping others isn't going to cut it any more. The timing of the resouling was with Angel's admission of needing Faith's help, not his attempt to help her. Who is going to help Angel and empower him to be a real champion?
[> Do read this folks-- it's very insightful! -- OnM, 06:49:18 03/24/03 Mon

lunasea also has a very good ep summary with similar observations currently in archive 1-- do look it up.
[> [> Thanks -- lunasea, 08:23:58 03/24/03 Mon

I found your stuff on Storytellers to be great, as well.

My experience was that when I was 8 something happened to me that isolated me from the neighborhood kids. My only playmates were books and my plethora of imaginary friends (though I knew they were imaginary). I tended to take the books and expand on them with my "friends." Even before that my intelligence seperated me from the other kids to some degree prior to this, but when I was 8 that became total isolation. I didn't have a real friend again until I joined the debate team in high school.

That event that isolated me also caused me to become dissociative and repress things. As I started to realize this, piece myself back together and regain my memories, I also had a hunger to understand myself and what made me so different from others. With my earlier "friends" I had been engaging in a form of what Jung called "active imagination." I became much more in touch with my unconscious than most. It tends to be the perspective I offer, since it isn't one most have.

I really did like what you said about Storytellers. I admire your courage in being willing to share your personal experiences with us. I admire your wisdom in being able to see how your experiences shape your understanding. It also helps me put together a post I am working about that interprets Joyce's words in "Bring on the Night" (I firmly believe it was Joyce, or at least a good spirit) that will be "Empowerment: Buffy-style."

This has been a great season. I just wish that Buffy got to the empowering others stage earlier. AtS it was episode 15, but we had Angelus to entertain us. BtVS won't probably be until 18 and there was nothing that entertaining to maintain a mini-arc.

Thanks again for the kind words.
Portents and Foreshadows (Spoilers, Season 7 Episodes 1 - 8) -- Darby, 14:11:22 03/23/03 Sun

This is a wrap-up of those aspects of each S7 episode that could be seen as building the seasonal arc, details that lay foundation rather than are integral parts of stand-alone episodes. Some have built to details that have already been revealed; many have been interpreted as critical details to either the coming finale plot and/or the basic Buffyverse mythology. Since we still have about a third of a season to go, the purpose of some details remains unknown - several of the plot point listed here may, if past seasons serve as a template, remain as loose threads. This has all been done with no idea of what's coming, save for some casting spoilers and the realization that SMG is leaving and Buffy the Vampire Slayer is ending in 6 episodes.

PART ONE - EPISODES 1-8.

Lessons.

We start right off with the murder of a protoSlayer, although we won't be told exactly what we're seeing for quite a while.

"It's about Power."

We're shown Fighter Dawn.

"It's all connected."

"In the end, we are all who we are."

The new principal at the new Sunnydale High has an office over the Hellmouth and seems to know a suspicious amount about Buffy, and gives her a job under suspicious circumstances.

Who put the talisman in the bathroom? What was the real purpose of the "resentful dead guys"?

A comment put Halfrek in the Crimean War, pre-dating Cecily and William. The earliest instance of a tendency to address fan theories that will run through the season.

Carlos and Kit, supporting characters who seem to have vanished.

The First (but we didn't know that yet) and Spike in the basement (not the Seal of Danthazar chamber, unless something dissolved the concrete floor later). Playing folks who have died.

"Back to the Beginning. Before the Bang. Before the Word."

Beneath You.

Another ProtoSlayer death, with "From Beneath You It Devours," in a Buffy prophetic dream - she knows more will die. One hopes she doesn't know why, or maybe she should have made some phone calls.

First appearance of Scary Dawn.

Spike's souling is revealed. When he goes vampface at the Bronze, his personality changes drastically, almost an Angel-to-Angelus shift. There's also an early indication that the pain feedback from the chip may be much less than before.

A dog named Rocky is pulled undergound through a hole in the pavement; later, in LA, a Beast nicknamed Rocky will emerge from a hole in the pavement.

Spike, talking about his mysterious co-conspirator, says to Buffy, "It...Him...The Thing...From Beneath YOU It Devours."

Same Time Same Place.

There's the first mention that the school basement seems to shift, not just a maze but a changing one. Could the entire basement be part of the Hellmouth now?

Willow, to Anya, worries about Anya and her both feeling, "[we're] not in charge of the power anymore because it's in charge of [us]?"

We're shown Researcher Dawn.

Buffy shares her strength with Willow to help heal her.


Help.

Vampire: "I am not peaceful."

Amanda, an odd girl with some violent tendencies, is introduced.

Xander has a hammer speech about power versus control.

Spike says, "William is a bad man - I hurt the girl." Was he souled already (as per cjl's theory) in Seeing Red, or perhaps talking about attacking and siring folks in Sunnydale? When he fights the kid in the library, we get more evidence of the chip's weakening.

Cassie to Spike: "She'll tell you. Someday she'll tell you."

The Bad Kid gets bitten by the demon after the demon is immolated, something that makes no sense unless it will eventually resurface.

We see some change in Buffy's mindset, as she settles into an overwhelming need to be Defender of the Helpless and we see that she can't really accept that she can't always help.


Selfless

We get a brief glimpse of Dark Willow.

A spider motif begins here. And more heart imagery.

There is more of the Slayer's job separating her from the rest of humanity, along with the heavy burden of responsibility. "There's only me. I am The Law."

More fan stroking, with flashback Xander muttering, "Just want...happy ending." For those of us who didn't want him to be behind Once More With Feeling.

D'Hoffryn's spell demanded, "The Life and Soul of a Vengeance Demon." Did he take Hallie's life and Anya's demon soul, leaving her with the demon's power but no way to control her?

When Anya wants D'Hoffryn to kill her, he says, "Oh, I wouldn't worry about that, 'From beneath you it devours.' Be patient... all good things in time." And yet he'll send lame demons after her, supposedly to kill her.


Him

A thrilling tale of yesteryear - in a slightly varied form, this could have been from Season One.

We get mega-klutzy Dawn, for no reason, but then she remorselessly pushes a guy down the stairs. Yeah, yeah, jacket effect, but it's still a step. As was dancing Dawn-as-Faith at the Bronze, which may or may not have been deliberate.

We are also reminded of a fact established in Something Blue, that Buffy does not see her emotions as being controllable by magic. There's also the telling detail that she sees RJ as in love with her, but everyone else falls in love with him. The others reveal some how they see an ideal mate in their description of the relationships they imagine with R.J.

Anya's little larceny excursion could explain how the Summers' house would support all of the house guests coming along later.


Conversations with Dead People

Broken down by the subplots -

Andrew and Jonathan. Why these two (and of these two, why, eventually, Andrew? Although he did look forward to being part of Buffy's "gang"). They did serve to establish several of the First Evil rules. We needed someone to converse with it - Spike was just being talked at. Jonathan gets sacrificed to a demonic seal, but the reason and result are not given.

Dawn. Gets pizza on Buffy's blouse, figures it will be taken as blood. "Mother's milk is red today." Why a totally different experience than the typical First Evil stuff? Was it really Joyce? "She won't be there for you. When it's bad, Buffy won't choose you. She'll be against you."

Willow. Was it only behind-the-scenes stuff that sent Cassie rather than Tara? Seemed to imply that Willow was a big threat to the First. Gave the First a motivation - no more mortal coil, Good and Evil, balancing the scales, it's the one that devours, etc, etc. If it can be trusted.

Spike. He hooks up with the actress from the car commercial with the sequence of "bad boyfriends" and kills her, and we find out he's been vampin' 'round Sunnydale. Expands the First's influence and sets the pace of Spike's story mini-arc..

Buffy. Since when are vampires "connected to an all-consuming Evil" that they are aware of? Was Webs (yet another spider reference) a direct agent of the First? What was his function, other than to take Buffy's Earshot role? To give up Spike? We are given another window into Buffy's psyche, both superior and inferior, aware of her "monster" treatment of Spike. Vampire attitudes = "a guy thing." Buffy doesn't believe she deserves her power, sees herself as "beneath" her friends, shows further the Slayer's isolation. Gotta like the Scott Hope reference and that "Crazy Jay" was committed after Graduation. Buffy's private mythology - what everybody thought of her - is added to, including the rumor that she was dating a really old guy (which she was).

Sleeper

We get SleeperSpike, at his most dangerous when vamped, and the first connection to a song "trigger" from the harmonica on the street.

There's an addition to the mythology - musicians sometimes know about "vampire towns."

Spike is obviously part of the First's plan against Buffy, but he's already resisting the influence. In vampface, he's animalistic.

There is the suggestion that Buffy's blood counteracts the First's influence.

Buffy finds out that something is controlling Spike that she can't see. That and her compassion for Spike keep her from staking him.

We get some confirmation that something organized and expected (Robson: "It's started.") is after ProtoSlayers and their Watchers. And Giles is apparently chopped through the skull.

AT THE ONE-THIRD-SEASON POINT:

We only know the Big Bad is the First Evil by inference, but the clues are numerous. We don't know what it's doing in Sunnydale, except that is playing Spike and Andrew, tried to remove Willow as a threat, and has arranged Jonathan's sacrifice. Globally, monks looking a lot like the Harbingers of the First from Amends are removing girls assumed to be Potential Slayers, and possibly killing Watchers as well (we've only seen two Watchers attacked, after a proto murder, so that might not be methodical). The core group of Buffy, Willow, and Xander are working together, with Dawn's help and a hint of Anya rejoining the group. Giles has barely been featured, and may be dead. The through thread seems to be Spike, sort of an echos of Season Two when it was Spike and Season Five, when it seemed to be Dawn. However, this storyline lacks the Spike & Dru cachet or the Dawn mystery. The theme and emotional line of the season seem unclear as well.

[> Portents and Foreshadows (Spoilers, Season 7 Episodes 9 - 16) -- Darby, 14:48:15 03/23/03 Sun

Continuing Season Seven -

Never Leave Me

We get a clue from Wood's treatment of troublemakers that maybe he isn't really a principal. For no obvious reason, he goes into the basement, finds Jonathan dead on the Seal and buries him.

The Watchers' Council seems to know what's going on, and that Giles is missing. They want him. Why? Someone steals their files and blows them up.

New to the mythology: human blood as an addictive drug for vampires. Spike's going through "withdrawal" after a couple of days. The trigger is figured out by Xander. Under control, he's at his deadliest in vampface. He fills in gruesome details of his vampy past, but Buffy tells him that she believes in SouledSpike..

Andrew loses the pig in the basement. Gets taken prisoner. Begins his reign of annoyance.

Anya and Xander, partners in interrogation.

Spike shows an understanding of why Buffy used him last year.

When the Bringers attack, it is with blunt staffs, pulling the knives out for purposely for Andrew and maybe less so for Dawn. We are told for the first time that the Bad is the First Evil, and that it's definitely after the Watchers / Slayers. The First tells Spike it's "tired of subtle," and Spike is bled onto the Seal, and we see the Turok Han.

We're shown Defense Dawn, who fights Bringers with moderate success.

Bring On the Night

Joyce visits Buffy in dreams. Is it Joyce? Is she giving legitimate warnings? She touches things, but it's a dream. The first indication of the impossibility of defeating Evil is given.

The First uses its newly-released supervampire to do menial torture on Spike and does a substandard Drusilla impression. What's the point?

The Good Guys check out the Seal and find the continuing-to-be-suspicious Wood. Later, he is even more so.

We get a blast from Amends via Willow, which intimidates her.

The Amazing NoTouchy Giles shows up with our first Protos, including Kennedy, the Official New Willow Love-Interest. Buffy finds out she's now responsible for the whole Slayer Shebang. Giles exposits the Evil Scheme, the modus operandi of the First, and is revealed as being the Watchers' Council files thief. Giles is droopy, reacting as the Old Giles almost exclusively in response to Anya. He specifically says that the Slayer Line is the Guardian of the Hellmouth.

Time becomes officially wonky, perhaps because the writers realized what sort of timeline they had confined themselves to by dating Conversations With Dead People.

The First shifts location back to the Amends cave, where Buffy finds the UberVamp unkillable but not likin' the sunlight. Giles describes the Turok Han. If there are two "entirely different races" of vampires dating into antiquity, could the accepted origins of vampires be true?

We see the first hints of Field Marshal Buffy, complete with horrible tactical judgment. Suddenly weapons are something everyone but she needs. She gets every inch of her ass kicked, but isn't finished off even though the opportunity is there. Makes a rousing speech, first hint that she isn't listening to Joyce.

Showtime

Rona is the first we see of the follow-up Protos as the Summers house fills up with questionable accents. We get some backstory for Kennedy, who will be the most prominent Proto.

More mythology - protos can be found by the coven by mystical means. Rona never had a Watcher, but the Bringers found her. The level of preparation among the protos seems widely variable. Faith's existence is just a rumor to the protos. Kennedy may be too old to be Chosen. Turok Han don't need an invitation to enter. Xander calls it "The Ubervamp." It can be hurt by Holy Water.

The practical problems of First non-corporeality - and, supposedly, Giles' - begin to surface as Eve's identity as a plant (how'd she get in and out of a sleeping bag?) and Giles' evasions (he never eats or is home when calls for him come in or goes into this precious bathroom?) poke naggingly at the consciousness.

The First's approach - sowing fear and disconent - comes to the Summers house as Eve.

Andrew takes a step toward "joining the gang" as he gets untied. He and Dawn start to interact as outsiders, but Dawn's just annoyed by him at this point.

The Beljoxa's Eye scene - the Line of Slayers has recently become "irrevocably altered" by "The Slayer." Giles feels the Eye is "Quite clear (in its obscure way)" that it was Buffy's return to life that caused the First to rise.

The core Scoobies can communicate telepathically, with Buffy initiating contact in the conversation.

First to Uber: "Take 'em all. Except for her." When Uber approaches the house, Buffy's "Here it comes" into the commercial break echoes her "Here we go" from Conversations With Dead People.

There are LOTS of Bringers in Sunnydale.

Willow's ability to use magic is still unreliable, as she is unwilling to draw on too much of it.

The fight scenes - Xander's imminent axing, an echo of Giles' earlier scene, is thwarted. The Turok Han goes after the group instead of Buffy. The construction site is part of The Plan, which involves, apparently, Buffy getting her ass rekicked before triumphing in a way that really couldn't have been planned, fighting (as far as can be seen) totally on her own, the first time she has walked into a planned fight with a Big Bad without coordinating contributions by the Scoobies (well, she has tried it, with the Master, and gotten killed). And Willow and Xander had input that resulted in their watching from the sidelines? This is apparently to show the protos How It's Done, but not really how Buffy generally does it. Although she doesn't bring a weapon into the fray, she winds up using a crossbow bolt to gain an advantage and finishes Uber off with barbed wire that probably wouldn't have been lying around such a place.

"Here endeth the Lesson." A reference back to Episode One. Earlier, Andrew had referred to "First Episode bored."

When Buffy rescues Spike, they have A Moment.

Potential

Our first scenes of practical Proto training, including real danger. The cherubs and angels in the cemetery are pointedly shown. The protos get more clues that Spike and Buffy are more than Just Friends. They visit a demon bar and meet Clem, a visit to the grayness of demons. Plus they learn that Clem is related to Beetlejuice.

More mythology - Protos are more than human, but being Chosen boosts that tremendously. Spike obviously doubts Buffy's vampire statement: "The animal inside? Always the same." The Buffy personal mythology now includes a rumor that she's a "high-functioning schizophrenic." The Bringers can tell a proto from a non-proto in a darkened room.

Field Marshal Buffy is very active. She lies to the protos about her death activating one of them. Death is no longer her Gift, it's her Motivational Tool. She uses her knowledge of being a Slayer to identify with her charges.

Buffy's counseling sessions are used to reveal her Inner Feelings, but make her look really incompetent.

Andrew and Dawn are denied inclusion in each other's presence. Andrew is used to explore the darkness of the Scoobies, in this case Spike.

Dawn is red-herringed as a Potential, addressing a theory of the Internet community.

Willow's proto finding spell hangs suspended among Willow, Xander, and Dawn, all of whom have experienced infusion of the Slayer Essence, before zipping off (through Dawn) to Amanda (introduced in Help and reintroduced earlier in this episode).

The confusing point about Buffy and Dawn: "They share the same blood" is commented upon. Now Dawn seems to think that Buffy would have to die to activate her.

Andrew asks about a new microwave and talks about being a Slayer in terms of a metaphor for Womanhood, "a fertile heritage stretching back to Eve."

Xander respects Dawn's ability to handle being a proto. While Dawn scoots out into the streets alone, as she did when finding out she way the Key..

In one of those subplots that make no sense, Amanda is introduced as the true Proto and Dawn finds her true Calling as a spear-bearer. Xander makes her feel noble about it, part of the Support Group. Dawn tells Xander his power may be, "Seeing. Knowing." Maybe he'll be a Watcher after all.

Amanda to Dawn in the science lab: "You're getting it done!"

The Killer In Me

Giles' possible noncorporeality is finally addressed as his dead non-dead Watcher friend calls. We don't really know why he's corporeal, though. Or why with an army of Bringers mystically finding, seeking and killing protos, reinforced in just the last episode, it's thought to be as good idea to send them out with just Giles as their protector.

More mythology - the protos can be given a vision quest with the First Slayer. Some aspect of the Initiative still exists, although the Sunnydale base was merely abandoned. Spike's time and experience there is apparently seriously retconned. A degrading chip can kill a vampire.

The UC Sunnydale wicca group still meets, but has gotten more serious.

Another Buffy and Spike moment, leading into the chip malfunction (set up by earlier clues), and the Initiative subplot. We are given follow-up to Primeval, and Buffy is given the option of removing or fixing the chip.

Kennedy is featured in her Willow Love-Interest role, which intensifies this episode. Kennedy invokes the "fairy tale" aspects of magic to solve the riddle.

Willow is given a chance to address her role as Warren-murderer, but instead reacts to "losing" Tara by being interested in Kennedy. Feeling like it's killing Tara again, she "becomes" Warren. As in Same Time Same Place, it could be a subconscious spell. But it's not.

Amy returns, with a suspicious amount of knowledge of what's going on in Casa Summers and a continued mad-on for Willow. She tells Kenndy, "This is not about Hate, it's about Power." She claims not to be "the Bad Guy here."

First Date

In rapid succession, we are given Giles' death-defying backstory and the resolution of the chip choice from the last episode. And, through Chao Ahn, protos who cannot speak English and brings cute cluelessness back to Giles. Plus, the flash cards.

Buffy: "You can't beat Evil by doing Evil."

Xander's ability to seek out female demons using psychic groinyness is reconfirmed. His date gives him a small chance to discuss his feelings about Anya.

Wood's backstory as a SonuvaSlayer is filled in. He has known who Buffy is all along. He may be being positioned as a New Buffy Love Interest (but is Buffy attracted to his wicked energy?). Also, he knows alleys in Sunnydale that Buffy hasn't seen after seven years patrolling. His "I guess we should talk" echoes when Riley and Buffy found out about each other. He has known about the impending doom with enough lead-time to get himself into the Principal's job. The First visits him as his mother and tells him that Spike was her killer.

Buffy's counseling competency becomes a source of humor.

The Hellmouth: "A Bidet of Evil."

The microwave gets replaced. The First tries to re-enlist Andrew, but Andrew sets up a sting operation with Willow. Dawn is proud of him and he responds. He is again used to comment on the Darkness of the group. He asks the First whether, as Evil, it would exist if everyone was unconscious. The gun from the last episode figures in to his subplot. The First cannot be secretly recorded or heard electronically. It implies that Spike still has an eventual role in its plans.

"Why does everyone in this house think that I'm still in love with Spike?"

Buffy's pizza-stained blouse from Conversations With Dead People is assumed to be bloody.

Spike is very understanding about Buffy's date, but she seems unsure how to react to the nonreaction. He vamps out during the final battle, but only during the fight (and for Wood to realize he's a vampire), so any personality changes in that condition are hidden (although it may link his knowledge to the First, who later knows about Wood fighting "alonside" Spike). He finds out about what the First said, and that Buffy isn't "ready for [him] to not be here."

According to Xander's date, demons are aligning for the coming conflict, the "Final Fight." The Seal can be reactivated and there are more Turok Han down there waiting to emerge - apparently one at a time.

Giles tries to ring the death knell on quips and jokes. "Time to get serious."


Get It Done

More language-challenged protos are implied from the books in the house. At least 17 are shown, and we are told that "all of their Watchers have been killed." Probably because this has become an overwhelming question out here. Kennedy has become a drill sergeant.

Buffy has a dream with the First Slayer in it (and Chloe, who will die), where she's told, "It's not enough." Looking at her "non-recruits," she seems to realize that the army-like preparations are not going to help, but seems more worried about her responsibility for them. She is told by Wood that she is "Re-defining the job." First-as-Chloe later quotes Buffy from her conversation with Wood - did Chloe hear her, or is the First capable of eavesdropping beyond what has been shown?

Spike is shown to be holding back as we are shown that D'Hoffryn still is sending lame demons after Anya. He has a testosteronefest with Wood. When Buffy refers to the Spike that "tried to kill her," Spike talks about being close to "bringing him out." He uses his coat, the coat of Wood's mother, to bring out his inner Big Bad. When we see him fighting the demon in vampface, it's the old Spike again.

Wood reveals to no one what he was told about Spike, but he is trying to confirm the story.

The Hellmouth is affecting the school above, to the riot point. Buffy acknowledges the seasonal nature of the Hellmouth.

Andrew, with the baking and the Big Board, is more integrated into the Gang.

We are shown Super Linguist Dawn.

Field Marshal Buffy, mega-pissed-off version after burying Chloe, non-rallies the troops, berating the Big Guns for their tiny current pops. After refusing more Power in fear of what it could do to her, she later apologizes to Willow.

Willow tries to reopen the portal and seems to be taken over by the power. She saps power from Kennedy and Anya to help her, but is able to control it, sort of.

Major mythology additions, courtesy of the "Emergency Kit."

"You can't just Watch, you have to See."

The Origin Myth changes the order from the Watcher's standard. From Welcome to the Hellmouth, the order was: Earth, Demons, Men, Demon Departure, Vampires, Slayer. From the Shadow Play, the order is: Earth, Demons, Men, a girl, Slayer...and then what? Did that First Slayer bring about the initial Expulsion of Demons? The Slayer is described as "Chained to the Earth." Real, but maybe metaphorical as well?

The knowledge requires an "Exchange," assumed to be the demon... The demon has some physical similarities to the First Slayer and big tusky teeth.

Buffy visits the Origin of the Slayer "in person." She is told that the End is nigh, that she is the Hellmouth's last guardian, and is offered power but not knowledge after having been "brought" to the Shadowmen, the original Slayer spellcasters. A replay of the original Slayer spell, drawing power from a demon heart and implanting it as a metaphorical rape, with the girl being a vessel for the Power and nothing more. An instrument, a weapon. She is told that this is the only way to do what must be done, because what was is what must be. But Buffy rejects the Shadowmen and their power boost, fearing the loss of her humanity. She resists the power's entry through her mouth and up her skirt, then takes out the Shadowmen. She is shown an army of Turok Han, and is unsure of whether she's made the right call.

Storyteller

An entire episode on the unreliable narrator, getting credit (or not) for heroism, and the redemption of a murderer.

Xander is described as "the heart" of the group.

Andrew is used to comment on Buffy's Field Marshal speech. Buffy reveals the Turok Han vision to everyone.

Andrew also comments on most of the other players, focusing mostly on Buffy, Dawn, and Xander, as well as the Spike-Wood "sexual tension." It seems clear that Andrew is developing a serious crush on Xander.

Willow and Kennedy have recovered from their encounter with Willow's Dark Side.

The Hellmouth, presumably the Seal, is affected the school into replaying its checkered past and escalating to riot mode. When Wood gets on it, something takes him over. Students converted to Bringers (temporarily?) seem to be able to magnify the Seal's influence, leading to High School Chaos. Null symbols, "NO," and "NO ONE" are part of the graffiti in the school.

Controlled Wood: "Evil is what Evil does."

Wood continues to hide his knowledge about Spike. Given an opportunity to stake Spike from behind, he takes it but is unsuccessful. His secret stays secret.

The pig from Never Leave Me makes an appearance.

Xander and Anya come to an understanding - the caring continues, but the true "spark" has faded.

More backstory: Andrew was visited in Mexico and used to get the sacrificial knife he will use on Jonathan. The knife has writing that leads to new information. It is decided that Jonathan's blood was just a primer, a consecration, for more sacrifices to open for Turok Han release. Repentant tears reverse this effect, at least temporarily.

"She fights like fighting is her life." "Life isn't a story!" "I'm making it all up. So what kind of a hero does that make me?"

AT THE TWO-THIRDS-SEASON POINT:

We know more, but not much. This middle section has answered a few questions whose answers we pretty much already knew - who's the Big Bad, what happened to Giles, what's the deal with Spike - but several related questions remain: why is the First really doing this, what's its actual plan, what's up with Giles, and is Spike now a split personality?

What the hell was done with the knowledge from Beljoxa's Eye? If that sequence was excised from the show, it would affect nothing that followed thus far.

Other questions yet to be answered:

Is it really All About Power? What's really up with the Hellmouth? What's going to happen with the Protos? How does Faith figure in to the Slayer-Slayer-Let's-Kill-the-Slayers plan? Do the sacrificial knives used on the Slayers relate to the knife used on the seal? -Or the one used to kill the Beast? Or Buffy, for that matter? At what point will someone actually buy a clue about how to fight (or not) the First? How much of it will involve Buffy's emotions, and how much depends upon the Evil tendencies of the whole crew?

[> [> Very thought provoking -- Rahael, 15:36:25 03/23/03 Sun

What a great idea! Must puzzle over all this....
[> [> [> The Buffy who didn't bark in the night -- KdS, 01:18:56 03/24/03 Mon

Two other possibly important things:

i) Lessons is the first season opener in which Buffy does not doubt and then reaffirm her Slayer-ness. (Thanks to lunasea for first pointing this out).

ii) The climactic shot of Buffy towards the end of the credit sequence this season is actually of the FE impersonating Buffy (from Lessons). Note that the equivalent shot in S6 was actually of the Buffybot in The Gift and for much of the season Buffy was lacking initiative - just going through the motions in a programmed way.

Also - don't know if you view the BtVS/AtS mythologies as now separate, but there was some milder implication that human blood is an energising and addictive drug for vampires in last year's Sleep Tight.
[> [> [> [> Re: The Buffy who didn't bark in the night -- ELR, 08:14:38 03/24/03 Mon

Lessons is the first season opener in which Buffy does not doubt and then reaffirm her Slayer-ness. (Thanks to lunasea for first pointing this out

That would be because Buffy spent the majority of season six doubting her Slayer-ness (or at best, merely "going through [its] motions"), gradually regaining confidence and hope, until she finally reaffirmed her Slayer identity in 6.22 "Grave."

Even Buffy doesn't bounce back from being dead for 147 days and then pulled out of "heaven" in one episode. It was a long, slow, painful spiral back to her center--basically the thesis of my essay, "Yeats' Entropic Gyre and Season 6 of BtVS," presented at the "Blood, Text, and Fears" conference last October.

From that perspective, consider B6 as the first episode of B7. Buffy still has a lot to learn.
[> [> [> [> [> Going through the motions -- lunasea, 09:01:23 03/24/03 Mon

S6 wasn't about Buffy's slayer-ness at all. Once she accepted her Slayer-role in "Bargaining" she never doubted it. She was going through the motions, but she knew those motions would work. She wasn't running away from being slayer. She wasn't doubting her abilities as Slayer. Being Slayer never really entered into the season at all. We don't even have that many demons or a demonic big bad.

Her problem S6 wasn't with herself. It was with the world. Give her something to sing about. It was easier for her to be wrong than for the world to be. She wanted to be wrong because that was something she could handle. Buffy didn't reaffirm her Slayer identity in "Grave." She figures out how to handle Dawn. This transcends her slayerness. S6 is about how Buffy Summers relates to the world, the whole world, not just the world of demons.

That is the difference between S1-6 and 7. Season 7 is about Buffy being something more than Slayer (and why she is getting messed up being nothing but the slayer). That is why she doesn't have to reclaim her slayer identity. Her concern is "My sister's about to go to the same high school that tried to kill me for three years. I can't change districts, I can't afford private school, and I can't begin to prepare for what could possibly come out of there. So, peachy with a side of keen, that would be me."

S6 Buffy didn't "bounce back" at all. She transcended where she was before. She didn't go "back." It wasn't a "long, slow, painful spiral back to her center." She went up, not to the center. Humans exist in more than 2 dimensions, in more than three. It wasn't a recovery, it was a transformation.

I would say Buffy doesn't have much to learn at all. She just has to put what she feels into practice, like she was in the first third of the season. All she has to do is take what she learned about how to handle her feelings about Dawn in "Grave" and apply that more broadly.

S6 leads to S7 just as S5 leads to S6. I wouldn't call an entire season the first episode of the next season though. S5 is threshold, S6 is Dark Night, S7 is Enlightenment. S5 takes her to the threshold of realizing she is more than Slayer (or perhaps what being Slayer really means. It isn't just about fighting demons or being like the First Slayer. Those mystical forces play some roll in keeping the First at bay) S6 is how this revelation numbs Buffy. S7 is how Buffy can handle this and help others.

That is how I see it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Partially agreeing -- KdS, 13:25:45 03/24/03 Mon

I think that Buffy's problem in S6 wasn't to do with her slayerness. If you rewatch S6 she perks up most of the time when there's something to kill - it's being a human that she has problems with. Buffy's reassertion of her Slayer self happens at the end of Bargaining II (which I tend to view as the second of a two-part opener) when she rises to the moment and saves Dawn. It's getting back to her human self that takes the time.

(Admittedly, When She Was Bad is also borderline in terms of reasserting slayerness/reasserting humanity, but that was only the second season and before the pattern had settled.)
Unforgiving (Angel Odyssey 3.17) -- Tchaikovsky, 14:29:53 03/23/03 Sun

3.17- 'Forgiving'

And immediately, we are bombarded with the fall-out of the happenings of 'Sleep Tight'. The rubble on which we focus to start with is the rubble of relationships, aspirations and hopes. And it all leads to the centre-piece of all the different splintering factions' concerns. The burnt-out crib, the absence of Connor, and Angel's broken spirit. Then the teaser hits the viewer with several short, snappy scenes, full of questions and emotional intrigue. Angel's deadened face makes way for Fred and Gunn, unable to accept Wesley's decision, then Wesley himself, making faces at Death, and finally Justine- who has turned from betrayer to betrayed, thus completing a tidy chain all the way from Angel to Sahjhan. Sahjhan betrays Holtz betrays Justine betrays Wesley betrays Angel. And in the resulting almost mathematical schematic, the cross-resonances are set themselves up almost accidentally, with Bell merely needing to do the menial work of writing the scenes. He does it with great aplomb, in undoubtedly his best effort to date.

-Fred's portal. It's a tiny nuance which could have been lost in the maelstrom, but ME tend to be very good at using these. Fred's terror of the repetition of her portal experience with Connor is truly moving. So many people attempt to connect with Angel in the episode, but it is only really Fred, (and obviously the grieving Angel himself), who are thinking about Connor's future in Quortoth.

-Angel's grief, which fills the Hyperion with surplus for the rest of LA, is shown so powerfully as to warrant comparison with Buffy's loss of Joyce. For me, the events of 'The Body' and 'Forever' are the rawest place the shows have dared to go. Angel's loss is tempered in these three episodes by the differing anxieties of the supporting characters, so we are given a little more breathing space as an audience. And yet, with great acting from David Boreanaz and tidy writng, the story of Angel's grief has a harrowing effect. Those solitary scenes, back brooding, are oddly recognisable yet different. While Angel brooded earlier in his growth, it was always about himself- his journey, his misdemeanours, his redemption. While a trade-mark I enjoyed, it was a very self-absorbed, almost self-isolating trait. Here, the echo of earlier brooding adds power. For again, Angel is self-isolated. Yet here he is so because his recourse to humanity has been torn away from him. Connor was not only a baby, (although that it certainly enough), but also an investment of Hope in his re-integration with society and humanity. Just as his need for 'Family' was so important in Season One. And to add a final, weighty emphasis to this correlation in Angel's brain, his two most prized previous links with humanity- the Family he temporarily succeeds in building by 'To Shanshu in LA', are both missing. Wesley, the betraying heartless coward, [in Angel's mind]. Cordelia, on a holiday which he very deliberately set up, ironically with the assurance in his mind that the only couple he needed was his one with Connor.

-Wonderfully, however, we are not forced to stay in this consuming emotion throughout the episode- we see all sorts of other causes and effects of the pivotal moment of the Season at the end of 'Sleep Tight'. In my last post, I argued rather circuitously that Sahjhan's lack of known motives to the viewers made the ending, where his will was done more than any of the other factions, superbly perverse, unpredictable and powerful. Yet there is always a desire to know more- and here the irony of Sahjhan's motivations adds weight to the Angel/Wesley scene at the end. For Sahjhan is attempting to escape a prophecy. He believes that, given time, he might just worm his way out of his fate. And yet it is ultimately Wesley's failure to have Sahjhan's ability to believe he can change fate that leads to Connor's exile. For if Wesley, like Sahjhan, had trusted that Angel would never intentionally harm Connor, and that AI were strong enough to protect the baby from any unintentional harm by the Father, then he might have scuppered Sahjhan's plans. It became a question of who was least fatalistic, of who had the least fear, and most temerity to change things, and Shajhan, temporarily won. Of course, there is an even headier irony to be had later in the season, now that I have, (I imagine), seen a grown-up Connor returned. Because it is highly likely that the demon dimension will have been a direct cause for Connor having the ability to kill Sahjhan. Sahjhan could not defeat a true prophecy, and Wesley was conquered by a false one. What this is supposed to say about free will and a deterministic universe is probably better left to others.

-'I like trouble, but I hate chaos'. So who exactly is the evil power incarnate in the little girl supposed to be? This line is an interesting comment on whomever has said it. The scene itself is well-conceived. We have the discomfiting opposites. The symbol of innocence and virtue, the little girl, being the evil being. The apparently older beings treated as the patronised children. And of course the black of Angel against the white of the room. Linwood is revealed as rather spineless compared to most of his colleagues, although Angel's resoting to torture probably did seem particularly threatening from his position. I was scared sitting safely at home.

-Justine, while notionally a character with Evil on the back of her shirt, is of course a much more rounded character than generic Good/Evil will allow. We start to see her reaction to Holtz' betrayal bringing out that humanity resident in all ensoulled characters in the Angelverse. She becomes Angel, the betrayed. Angel, aside from deep grief, cannot believe that Wesley would have done what he did. And Justine, aside from her loss of direction and faith in Holtz' justice, actually just a front for his personal vengeance, cannot believe that Holtz is gone. The charismatic person who helped see her out of utter despair. But as she rather perceptively realises, she chose the wrong man. Wesley was the one with the good intentions. And her guilt over Wesley's apparent death stops her slashing Gunn's throat in the same way as he did in the previous episode. I will be interested to see if she can start on that rocky ol' pat to redemption.

-We have another painfully well-executed false ending. Firstly, Angel forgives the man in grief on the pavement for knocking Sahjhan down. We wonder whether this is a prefigurement of reconciliation with Wesley. The we hear Lorne's moral- which I, who still believe Lorne is largely Greenwalt, took as good advice to Angel, that he should take. Yet actually, Lorne's speech, the pavement man, the title of the episode, and the horribly insipid calm initial speech that Angel has at the hospital with Wesley are all mis-leads. Because while forgiving may be best, there is no way that Angel is ready for it. We understand his emotions, wrong though the results of them are. As Masq mentioned in reply to an earlier post, it is crucially important that it is not Angelus on two counts. Firstly, because it doesn't give Wesley that thought that simple evil can explain away Angel's actions. And secondly, because it's an action caused directly by the most direct human thing his life has ever supplied his child. Angelus is the artistic killer, the disloyal hedonist. Angel is something completely different, and his relationship with Connor is perhaps the greatest achievement of any of the Liam/Angel/Angelus trio, even though it is nascent when it is cut short. Angel might just be becoming human, but he is certainly becoming able to pin his hopes and truly pure love on a human thing, as he never found himself entirely able to do even with Buffy. And Wesley, he perceives, stops that process. Angel the human has his latest and most powerful development ripped from him.

As you may have gathered from the above review, I have watched 'Double or Nothing' and 'The Price', but will review them tomorrow when my tiredness is less likely to lead to jaundiced ranting about missed opportunities. Because both episodes, particularly the latter, had beautiful moments, but I was not overwhelemed by either as a whole.

TCH
[> Notes to cjl and yab from previous thread -- Tchaikovsky, 14:35:37 03/23/03 Sun

yabyumpan- Would I like to catch up on Buffy Season 7 and Angel Season 4? Let's think a second. Oh, hang on, that's the easiest question ever! Thanks so much for the offer. I'll definitely take you up on it.

cjl- Love the metanarrative explanation. And I think that 'Reprise' and 'Loyalty' would certainly be extremely close to my top two as well. But it's gonna take more watchings to really sort those top ten or so out, because they're all so perfect in my head.

TCH
[> Excuse me while I talk to myself again- an 'Ah!' moment -- Tchaikovsky, 14:43:58 03/23/03 Sun

Jsut done my post-review read of Masq's page for 'Forgiving', and I totally missed that the red girl is one of the species who made Sahjhan's race immaterial. Heard it in the episode, but it didn't click. That explains a little of where to place the girl, even if there is still little background information on her species.

TCH
[> [> Something to look forward to in Season 4 -- Masq, 15:56:35 03/23/03 Sun

[> Beautifully written, as usual! -- Rahael, 14:58:28 03/23/03 Sun

Just a comment until I reply properly tomorrow!
[> Re: Unforgiving (Angel Odyssey 3.17) -- Masq, 15:54:53 03/23/03 Sun

"Immediately". *Sigh* I wish it had been immediately. Here in North America, we had to wait weeks between "Sleep Tight" and "Forgiving". I don't remember how many, but it was a WHILE.

Connor as Angel's tie to humanity. I wrote in some post somewhere, probably in a spoilery reply to one of your "Odyssey" posts, about the vital role Connor played in Angel's life. He was Angel's biological child. A vampire's biological child. In "To Shanshu in LA", Wesley comments to Cordelia that Angel disconnects himself from humanity and the cycle of life precisely because he isn't part of it. He can't grow, age, or change. He has friends, of course, but in the final analysis, he is a vampire--he helps the helpless with vampire powers that come to him because he is dead.

Connor changes all that. Angel finally has a very tangible link to humanity. And because Connor's other parent is a vampire as well, Angel can't tell himself that what is human in Connor doesn't come from him. Connor had something very human that Darla didn't have--a soul.

Losing Connor, therefore, is like Angel gaining humanity and then losing it again. In some ways, his rage at Wesley is All About Angel (as opposed to Connor), but of course, that is not what it's reall All About.
[> Re: Unforgiving (Angel Odyssey 3.17) -- yabyumpan, 17:21:15 03/23/03 Sun

'Forgiving' is up there with my favorite episodes ever. Even though I was totally spoiled for it, the final scene still had me sitting with my jaw open and gripping the egde of the chair (it still does). The very end, when the credits start and Angel is still yelling "you're dead Pryce" just sends shivers up and down my spine.

he he, I was only going to write that I'm trying to preserve this thread for tomorrow but I got a liddle bit carried away (or maybe I should be), anyway, preserving this thread, off to bed now :o)
[> [> Edge of seat? I cried -- Helen, 08:10:59 03/25/03 Tue

This was one of the random Angel eps I saw (not a dedicated follower *hangs head in shame*) but thanks to my dedication to this site I knew the back story. I found the scne in the hospital kind of unbearable. Everything had fallen so comprehensively apart, I didn't see any way back for anyone involved. I don't know if I could ever watch it again (have only attempted to watch the Body once after my initial viewing of it, and that was too much. I imgaine I would have the same reaction to this).
[> The Destroyer (Angel Odyssey 3.18-3.19) -- Tchaikovsky, 09:18:59 03/24/03 Mon

The Destroyer (Angel Odyssey 3.18-3.19)

3.18- 'Double or Nothing'

Which came first- the reviewer or the demon? This jenoff question was what I was thinking about throughout much of this episode, which is never a good sign. I think that if, after an mini-arc as climactic as the previous one, you decide to go off in a completely different direction, then you are under obligation to make the story interesting and poignant, and here I didn't feel the writing was very successful. One person I would like to compliment highly though is David Grossman, who is one of the few directors on either show who really shows creative and original flair for moulding the script inot something more.

-There were three classic Grossman moments in this episode. To start with, we again see that broken crib, dominating the room. A little later, in the conversation between Angel and Cordelia, we have only half of Angel's face. He is squeezed into the corner, feeling trapped in destiny, even sometimes so torn that it feels like half of him is gone. Finally, there is an extremely wonderful little shot in the apparent Fred/Gunn break-up scene. We cut from one to the other, and then, just for a second, there is a shot with neither of them in, but only the space between them. Inhabiting the space is the bag full of their shopping- the bounty of the relationship. And yet that emotional distance is highlighted tidily, almost without bringing any attention to itself. Lovely directing.

I felt the Gunn plot dragged in this episode. I wasn't ever really interested that he had sold his soul. It didn't seem to have significance, which is odd, because it ought to be such a big plot twist. We had a horribly uncharacteristic over-egging of the suggestion that Gunn felt he had no future. Not only does Gunn himself explicitly state it twice, but there is the too-ironic scene with the returned Cordelia, and several scenes with Fred. One of my favourite aspects of the story telling in Angel, (perhaps even more so than Buffy), is how much the themes and ideas are lying a little under the surface. Here I felt there was a lapse in concentration. The flashback scene to me seemed a little unnecessary and lacking in tautness, although I was momentarily amused that they picked the old '95 Coolio song 'Gangsta's Paradise' for Gunn's backing music. And the resolution of the plot seemed pretty much inexplicable and pointless to me, although I trust someone will have some ideas as to its relevance. So let's leave my moaning and focus on some of the things I did notice and enjoy:

-The Fred/Wesley scene is an exceptionally interesting moment. It is a really big turning point for both Fred and Wesley, and is an important precursor to his excellent scene with Gunn in the next episode. This season we have always scene Fred justify Wesley's actions, often perhaps overlooking some of the reality in order to back up her belief that he is simply 'a Good Man'. Wesley has decided that it is not that simple by the end of 'Billy'. And yet Fred's support helps him through. Then in 'Forgiving', Fred is desperate to find why Wesley is acting as he did, and appears to come to the conclusion that he was justified in his actions. And yet here, we see that Fred has not let him off as lightly as she did last time. When Wesley hid himself away in the Pylea-cave of his room at the end of 'Billy', it was Fred who saved him, becoming the hero Angel was to her. But now, when Wesley needs the support of somebody, anybody, even Fred will not exonerate him. He is told never to come back, and now he feels the pain of his exile from his blood kin even more bitingly. Once again, as with his parents, he feels he has lost something precious, and the onus is on him to re-gain it. It's a cruel old world, where small mistakes are exacerbated, but that has always been the way this universe operates. Meanwhile, Fred's decision to do what she does is important in relation to the later plot twist. Because she has distanced herself from Wesley, and has left herself firmly in Gunn's hands. And for a while, it appears this may have been a very dangerous decision.

-The demons in this episode reminded me of the shady Dickensian figures one imagines in 'Nicholas Nickleby' or 'David Copperfield', particularly the bespectacled worker in charge of Gunn's case. There's certainly a suggestion of a rather archaic, almost Victorian English undeground to Los Angeles, to contrast with the gang warfare that is so much part of Gunn's life in the mid-90's.

-Some of David Boreanaz' acting in his big, expressive face is really starting to work wonderfully. As much as I love 'Amends', it is Sarah Michelle Gellar who has to take up all the slack in that final scene. Here Boreanaz gets to command every scene he's in, which is no mean feat when you consider how mediocre he was as an actor back in 'Welcome to the Hellmouth'.

-Gunn goes through the classic scene of attempting to lessen Fred's pain by hurting her deeply. It's interesting to consider whether, like Wesley in 'Billy', some of the insults he comes up with are really inside him. Because it is difficult to invent insults which are entirely false to what you feel and make them seem real. So, a little like Xander and Anya in 'Once More, With Feeling', we see a relationship which is apparently tight with all its underlying insecurity and doubt. Of course, Fred with a mixture of intelligence and intuition, realises that Gunn must be acting under an ulterior motive.

-When Angel says 'We are not losing another member of this family', there is a clever little ambiguity. Of course we initially think of Connor, but how much are we supposed to imagine Angel is thinking of Wesley? At all? Certainly the two interpretations are played for the audience.

-The whole 'Double or Nothing' aspect of the episode alluded me, really. There was the suggestion that Angel had a really ingenious plan up his sleeve, and yet in the end it was just a strategic use of violence based on a kind of poker-face; bluffing so that even the House believes it could just lose. And then the decaptation not working, and the leader being sorted out by all the people about to be dis-ensoulled? Just boring for me.

-We have the Gunn/Fred conclusion with the truck, which hit all the wrong notes for me. If we are hammered on the head with the idea that Gunn believed he had no future, to then make the idea that it was a truck not a girl into a big joke just seems incongruous. If they'd played slightly more heavily on the idea that that vehicle was Gunn's way of making something of his life, and eased off on the humour, it could have been alright, but as it was it seemed jarring.

-And then finally, we have Angel dismantling the cot. This reminds me very much of what happened in Season Three's 'Faith, Hope and Trick' where, as soon as Buffy had let go of the Claddagh ring, and said goodbye to Angel, he returned. Here Angel starts to finally accept Connor's loss, only for him to return at the end of the next episode.

Could have been fine. Instead pretty disappointing.

3.19- 'The Price'

Let me get one thing straight here. I don't have any particular vendetta against David Fury. Every time I tune in to one of his episodes, I hope to see something as tidy and compelling as his first shot 'Helpless', and I'm usually a little frustrated. This episode is far from his worst: and is a distinct improvement on 'Double or Nothing'. Part of the reason why this episode in particular wasn't one of my favourites was actually due to the suspense thriller kind of style of the episode. This has nothing to do with anything accept my personal preference for more character and theme based episodes. There was a lot which was well-executed in this episode, but I didn't quite feel it recaptured the genius of the Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving trilogy.

-'It doesn't ever snow in South California'. 'It did, once'. Here we have the highlighting of something I believed cjl mentioned before. That the two most defining moments of Angel's life since the start of the series are linked in the lack of explanation. The snow at the end of 'Amends' is a concession from the Powers that Be, and a calling. They do what Buffy on her own was failing to do. They let him see Hope again, and save him from suicide. Then in 'Reprise', in his next moment of 'perfect despair' another impossibility happens to Angel, the conception of his son. Here, Angel has sub-consciously linked the two together. He may claim that 'I don't know why I brought him this', but the engaged viewer does- he's linked together those two moments of Pain and Hope. When Fred starts to drink from the snow-scene later, everything once again starts falling apart. Angel has momentarily decided to focus on new cases rather than Connor, but he is starting to lose everything again. Even his ability to conquer apparently relatively harmless, parasitic evil. His family. His son. And that hope from 'Amends'. Cracking that snow-scene is not a drink of convenience from the writer.

-Could Gavin Parks be even more annoying as a character? He is conceived by the writers as the buzzing hornet around Lilah throughout the series, always threatening to sting like a bee, but never quite managing it. He manages superbly, and, while the audience is interestingly in Lilah's perspective, we see jsut how wearisome he really is. However, finally the sting does come, and it appears that this time Lilah could be in big trouble with another rather irritating character- Linwood. The days of the more engaging Holland Manners and Lindsey are gone, and now even Lilah's deviousness is looking under fire from W+H.

-'The Price' occurs at the same point in the Season as 'Seeing Red', and it is worth considering the idea in respect of Willow. She is the one who decided to bring Buffy back, and the cosmic price was, eventually, Tara's life, as indirect as it may seem. However, initially it appears to just be the rather here-today-gone-tomorrow thaumogenesis of the hitch-hiker, which aside from Dawn's dry mouth caused little real damage. Here in 'The Price', we are expected to believe for the moment that the price from Angel's consolidation of Sahjhan was just the nasty drinking bugs. But we must expect, like the similar case in Buffy, (and all Lorne's references to 'dark magicks' are hardly accidental), that there is to be a much more large, character-changing consequence, which I would gamble on being before the end of the Season.

-Gunn's rampage at Angel is noteworthy if not particularly spectacular. He is trying to keep the current situation in hand, while Angel is still brooding on the past. His attempts to move on with his new clients are seen to be ephemeral and without real heart.

-There's that tiny little snip of of a scene where Wesley opens the door and Gunn says 'Need you help'. We are expecting a complex, psychological master-piece, and we're given Gunn, as emphasised by the writers, being short and efficient. However, in the next scene, where we do get what we originally expect, we get Wesley's motivation for living- for explaining his consequences. It is clear that the group cannot get along without him- and that Fred has realised that she isn't Wesley. Wesley is another price of Angel's reactions to his loss, a Pryce in fact, and I suspect the under-played pun was deliberate. Those words from Wesley are beautifully acted, as always. Alexis Denisof has had a stunning Season.

-Cordelia's shininess sets up more questions than it answers, and, in the context of the episode's style being largely about the suspense of the parasites, seems a careless ending to me. I wouldn't mind if the plot was simmering along in the background, but as it is crucial to the episode's interest, it deserved a little less convenient an ending for me. However, it's nice to see that Cordelia's powers have not been entirely forgotten. I think she's been a little shakily written since she returned with the becoming-tedious Groo, as too empathetic and caring, and not quite spunky enough. That may be deliberate for all I know, but she's just seemed a touch over-the-top with her advice to Fred, Gunn and Angel. Interested to see if this strand continues to the end of the Season.

-The ending was good, but I have no idea what's going on, and frankly have given this episode quite enough attention, so instead of speculating idly, I think I'll scuttle off now to see the final three episodes. With the excellent Bell/Minear/Greenwalt credits, I have great hopes that a super season can see itself out of a temporary dip.

TCH
[> [> Snow Globes and Monster Trucks (Angel Odyssey 3.18-3.19) -- cjl, 10:26:38 03/24/03 Mon

And now, the inevitable splash of cold water....

Oh, wait. You didn't like these eps either.

Never mind.

"Double or Nothing"

My reaction to this episode was almost precisely opposite to yours: I thought the fact that Gunn sold his soul for a truck was the most fascinating aspect of the plot. But it needed more set-up, more flashback to who Gunn was five years ago, and why he thought he had no future. Most people in the states thought the revelation at the end was stupid beyond measure; but some quick shots of Gunn's street battles circa 1997 might have made some audience members reconsider the value of a truck and how nearly hopeless Gunn's crusade really was. Also, it would have been great to see Alonna again, and ME could have reverse-foreshadowed her staking in "War Zone" to incredible dramatic effect.

Do we get any of this? No. We get the F/G "perfect day," and the "cruel to be kind" breakup scene, and I'm ready to throw my New York Mets seat cushion at the screen. Gunn has been scowling and glowering over the course of the last two episodes, telling everybody that Wes screwed up big time by not coming clean--and here he is, with the pain of Connor's disappearance still fresh, feeding his friends and his significant other a load of manure. This, and the candy-coated, juvenile nature of the F/G interaction in this episode, nearly ruined both characters for me. (I'll have to stop this rant before I spoil TCH, but catch up to me at the June convention. I could go for hours...)

The demon casino was barely a step above cliche, and Angel's plan for "winning" the bet with Jenoff and was ludicrous. (Does everyone at A.I. have graduate degrees in "bad planning"?) Suppose Jenoff's henchmen actually pulled their boss out after Angel and his crew left? What's to stop Jenoff from coming after Gunn AND ANGEL again?

A near total loss. NEXT!

"The Price"

A little better. A typical haunted mansion episode with a vermin-ous twist, and it was great seeing the gang explore the vastness of the Hyperion. (The minute they peeked into the ballroom, I mentally whipped out my tape measure and started planning the new version of Caritas.)

I agree with you on virtually every point. Alexis Denisof made his 75 seconds on screen seem like a starring role. And yes, poor Groo just hasn't been the same happy warrior since he realized he's just a plot device. The W&H gang is hardly bolstered by the ascendancy of Gavin Park, and you get the feeling even Lilah yearns for the days of Holland Masters and Lindsay McDonald.

Nice catch about the snow globe. Yes, I was the one who connected "Amends" and "Reprise," but I never quite made the connection in "The Price." Well done.

And as for Cordelia--"shakily written," huh? TCH, you have no idea what's to come. (I feel another rant coming on, but I'll be strong.)
[> [> Re: The Destroyer (Angel Odyssey 3.18-3.19) -- Masq, 10:58:47 03/24/03 Mon

Double or Nothing:

This is that "other episode" I mentioned in my response to your "Provider" critique that I thought was one of the two real stinkers of the second half of season 3. Meaning, of course, that the other episodes between Provider and DorN and after DorN were all enjoyable to a much greater degree (by me, anyway). A lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm a humungous [censored for spoilers] fan.

the resolution of the plot seemed pretty much inexplicable and pointless to me, although I trust someone will have some ideas as to its relevance.

It was almost universally agreed on the board at the time this episode aired that the resolution to the Gunn plot was a failure for the writer and a failure for Angel--it made him look rather short-sighted and cowardly. I think it's one of those times (and there have been others in other episodes) where something was written and played for laughs, but the laughs failed, and the character just ends up looking lame, or worse, what they did gets taken much more seriously by the audience and we get a rash of criticisms of the character rather than of the writer who gave those words and actions to the character.

The Price:

Cordelia-- I think she's been a little shakily written since she returned with the becoming-tedious Groo, as too empathetic and caring, and not quite spunky enough. That may be deliberate for all I know, but she's just seemed a touch over-the-top with her advice to Fred, Gunn and Angel.

I always sit here at the keyboard wondering how spoilery I am permitted to be and how not-spoilery I should be with you, TCH. What you have noticed about Cordelia here, that she seems out of character, that she should have shown a lot more interest in Wesley than she did, that she seems overly loyal to Angel and her role as his vision-girl than we think she should be, and preachy--these are things we all noticed ourselves during the final episode of Season 3.

We also noted that her powers seem a bit deux ex machina, and that they "took a while to get here!", considering that "Birthday" aired in January and "The Price" in late April, if I recall.

And of course thre is the short blonde hair that does NOTHING to flatter Ms. Carpenter. We all wondered what that was about. And I will say I suspect there is a very deliberate reason for all of this on the part of ME (including the hair--symbolism, you know), but will not say much more beyond that because most of it would be speculation still, here in the middle of Season 4.

Suffice it to say, this is the Cordelia phase we fans call the "Saint Cordelia" phase. It's uncomfortable, it's puzzling, and I think it's meant to be.
[> [> Reply to TCH's 'Destroyer' post (spoilers 3.18, 3.19) -- Scroll, 15:59:24 03/24/03 Mon

Your thread archived while I was typing but I still wanted to post my responses, so here it is. Mostly I agreed with cjl and Masq about "The Price" and "Double or Nothing". Didn't talk about "Forgiving" at all -- it's too good for me to dissect!

Personally, I don't mind that Gunn sold his soul for a truck -- it seems like a pretty foolish 17-year-old thing to do, especially when you live on the streets and figure you're not going to live to see 25 (reminds me of Buffy, actually). But I agree with cjl that there wasn't enough set-up of Gunn's hopelessness and the dark, violent life he led as a teenager. I realise the writers wanted something lighter to balance off the Connor-kidnapping arc, but a little darkness would've at least made Gunn more comprehensible and empathetic to the audience.

Yeah, and Angel's big plan of Cordy stabbing Jenoff in the hand was just lame. Or maybe my expectations were too high; I was hoping for "Ocean's Eleven" and got Wile E. Coyote's ACME bomb instead.

I liked "The Price", but didn't love it. I'm actually rather fond of the big Groo, so Cordelia's attitude towards him, coupled with her growing "saintliness" and inexplicable deus ex machina glowiness, made me fairly irritated with her character (last year). Since then, I've resolved to take Cordelia as she comes, irritating or no, and just go with the plot.

You're right about the thaumogenesis/price of Angel and Willow's spells, there's definitely a comparison here.

Something you wrote triggered an idea about the "price" and the "double or nothing" aspect of the previous episode.

-When Angel says 'We are not losing another member of this family', there is a clever little ambiguity. Of course we initially think of Connor, but how much are we supposed to imagine Angel is thinking of Wesley? At all? Certainly the two interpretations are played for the audience.

-The whole 'Double or Nothing' aspect of the episode alluded me, really.

So perhaps this is a small allusion to Wesley's gamble back in "Sleep Tight". He gambles Connor's life and Angel's innocence (re: keeping Angel from killing Connor), but ends up losing nearly everything: Connor's sucked into Quortoth, Angel nearly kills Wesley (another family member), and Wesley nearly loses his own life in the process. Double or nothing, and Wesley lost it all. And the price of his gamble is his family, the very thing he was hoping to protect.

One interesting thing to note: From the time Justine slits his throat to Gunn's demand for help in "The Price", Wesley does not utter one single word. His willing silence over the prophecy translates into forced silence for 2 1/2 episodes. That forced silence (slit throat) is also a parallel to the silence forced onto him by his friends, who refuse to hear his side of the story.

One thing I didn't like about "The Price" (and this could just be me being picky) -- I had a bit of a problem with Angel's nonchalant attitude about the guy who turned to dust because of the slugs. I totally accept that Angel would do everything in his power to rescue Connor from Quortoth, including using dark magicks. I can even understand his need for vengeance against Sahjhan, though I don't think it was a good, right, or smart thing to do making Sahjhan corporeal again. But I don't see how Angel can so easily shrug off the deaths his actions have caused -- the family in the car wreck in "Forgiving", and now this man infested by the slugs. Maybe I'm expecting too much from Angel (or from the writers) since I realise this guy was just a plot point. But I was hoping for some kind of tiny (very tiny!) sign of guilt or regret -- though not remorse, since Angel considered the things he did necessary for rescuing Connor.

Also, it just seems so incongruous that Angel's deal with the Little Red Girl and his use of dark magicks to open a portal to Quortoth can be made the same level of badness as Gunn going to Wesley for help for Fred. That just seems like a too much of a stretch simply to establish a parallel -- rather like the Willow/Buffy addiction parallel in "Wrecked". If the Angel/Gunn parallel had remained unspoken and implicit, and not pointed out by Angel himself, perhaps I would have less problems with it. As it is, it just felt like a big anvil in the middle of the Hyperion.

But, yay Connor! I'm rather fond of Angel-Connor, so the next few eps were very good to excellent, in my books.

Also, I hope you'll learn to enjoy the Groosalugg. Mark Lutz is Canadian, so I feel a certain patriotic joy at knowing he's getting to work on Angel : )
[> [> [> I read somewhere on this board. . . -- Finn Mac Cool, 16:28:06 03/24/03 Mon

That Tim Minear said the coming of the slugs and the coming of Connor was intended to be seen as not being the result of Angel's spell, but rather caused by either Connor or the slugs in Quortoth. Granted, it didn't neccessarily come off this way, but the writers were trying to show the problems of "The Price" as not being of Angel's doing.
[> [> [> [> Clearly... (Spoilers for AtS 3.20 and 3.21 here and above) -- Masq, 16:34:33 03/24/03 Mon

Connor followed the Sluks to Earth. He says as much to Holtz: "The cracks were already there. I just made the Sluks show me, is all."

The Sluks flee from Connor ("rats forced to flee to daylight"). One imagines him as the kind of terror in Quortoth little kids who pull the wings off flies are to Earth flies.

But how did the cracks get there in the first place? It seems mighty odd that these cracks go to, off all places, the Hyperion lobby. Why not Timbuktu? Outer Mongolia?

That's what I attribute Angel's spell and it's consquences to. He does this big Sahjhan-raising spell in the Hyperion lobby and creates cracks to Quortoth that bring down a rain of Sluks on him. The Sluks come through the cracks to flee the Destroyer. The Destroyer follows them because he has reason to believe they will lead him to Daddy.
[> [> [> Re: Reply to TCH's 'Destroyer' post (spoilers 3.18, 3.19) -- Gyrus, 16:29:12 03/24/03 Mon

One thing I didn't like about "The Price" (and this could just be me being picky) -- I had a bit of a problem with Angel's nonchalant attitude about the guy who turned to dust because of the slugs...I don't see how Angel can so easily shrug off the deaths his actions have caused -- the family in the car wreck in "Forgiving", and now this man infested by the slugs.

I completely agree. Angel seemed so upset over the loss of Connor that he forgot any notion of right and wrong. Getting his son back was his first and only priority.

At the time, I couldn't help thinking that, if someone had told Angel that he could get Connor back by killing Fred and Gunn, he would have thought about it for 3 seconds and then snapped both their necks.
[> [> [> [> You know, I think I have to agree with you -- Scroll, 17:23:20 03/24/03 Mon

At the time, I couldn't help thinking that, if someone had told Angel that he could get Connor back by killing Fred and Gunn, he would have thought about it for 3 seconds and then snapped both their necks.

When I read your post, I thought, "No way, Angel would never do that!" Being willing to kill Lilah or torture Linwood is one thing, but killing Fred? Gunn? Maybe even Cordelia if that's what it would take? No, Angel would never go that far.

But then I reconsidered. If Angel had known with 100% certainty that killing Fred or Gunn would bring back Connor, and that there was absolutely no other way, I think he might've done it. In a fit of hope and rage (rather like his attack of despair and rage on Wesley), Angel would've killed Fred or Gunn to bring back Connor. Now, Cordelia or Buffy, I'm not so sure he would kill. Maybe, maybe not. Wesley, if he'd been innocent of the whole situation, Angel might have second thoughts about, but even Wesley I think Angel would sacrifice for Connor. Of course, Angel would've felt terrible for their deaths the rest of his life. Incredible guilt that would've coloured Connor's influence on his life. But Angel still would have done it.

And that's just... cold. And scary. And very, very likely given Angel's disposition at the time.
[> [> Re: The Destroyer (Angel Odyssey 3.18-3.19) -- CCR, 19:06:56 03/24/03 Mon

Just de-lurking briefly, Tchaikovsky, to let you know how much I'm enjoying your enjoyment (mostly) of AtS S3. So nice to revisit the episodes through fresh eyes!

A comment about 'DoN,' which is far from stellar and weighty but seems to me to be one of the recurring "state of the relationship" episodes that have occurred since 'WitW' when ME apparently decided to start to take on (or apart) the group dynamics by beginning to examine the nature of romantic and sexual bonds that could happen within the group of regulars. 'Couplet' was another example and there are plenty more up ahead!

To me the Double refers to the power of the close bonds between F/G and A/C. Both Gunn and Angel's brains are malfunctioning here, for different reasons, but the end result is that neither of them can make anything resembling an intelligent decision when faced with a major problem. Luckily, both Fred and Cordy know them well enough to step in and save their butts: Fred by going to Angel for help and Cordy by nailing Jenoff's hand. She didn't care about the ethics of it; she saw Angel was depressed and well-meaning, but dully resigned to giving up his soul if he lost. She made sure he got a future.

Looking forward to the next batch!
[> [> [> Thanks CCR -- Tchaikovsky, 01:00:02 03/25/03 Tue

Yes, that's it. 'Double or Nothing' is about the two souls of Gunn and Angel at a surface level, and underneath is about the relationships you mentioned- particularly Fred and Gunn. Will they end up together, or will it end in the horrible emptiness of Gunn's sacrifice. Still not one of the most well-thought out episode titles for me, but at least that clarifies it a little.

TCH
My analysis of 'Orpheus' is up -- Masquerade, 15:31:03 03/23/03 Sun

Here.

If you look at "Orpheus" on a superficial level--that is, purely in terms of the dialogue, clothes, and hair (no offense, oh super-tasteful Honorificus), than this is a very lame episode. The wigs alone are enough to send even a bastion of nerd-dom such as myself screaming from the room.

But on a metaphysical and philosophical level, this episode shines. I take back all the ranting I've been doing the past few days. Except, of course, about Evil!Cordelia's lame-o telephatic "voice".
[> Shared dreams -- OnM, 20:49:39 03/23/03 Sun

A fine analysis, and I agree very much about the lame telepathic evil voice!

I do disagree with one assertion, though.

*** Unanswered question: If Angelus' hell is all in his own mind, how is it that Faith can enter it, since a vampire's mind is typically impervious to being "read"? The only explanation is that the Orpheus drug can somehow counter-act this, which makes sense, if it has become a psychedelic drug of choice to vampires. ***

Ummm, isn't it possible this 'hell-dream' is happening in, and is a creation of, Faith's mind?

Back when Normal Again aired in S6, I had an idea that the drug injected by the waxy demon caused Buffy to form a telpathic link with another, equally real Buffy who lived in the 'Asylumverse', a real, seperate dimension. The two minds became essentially fused until the antidote was administered.

We know that Buffy shared a dream with Faith back in Graduation Pt II. While it has never been definitively resolved that the dream originated in Buffy's mind, or Faith's, or both, a good case could be made that Faith was the originator, and Buffy was the 'visitor'. Perhaps one of Faith's psychic gifts is this ability to facilitate dream-sharing.

So, Faith injects the Orpheus drug, and Angelus feeds on her. Faith's mind creates the hell-dream and Angelus become bound to her mind because of also ingesting the drug. Angelus attempts to take over the dream, because, hey, evil and very unhappy with the subtext-- why not?

On the surface, the dream seems to be about punishing Angelus, but eventually Faith's fears about her own weaknesses come to the fore when Angel feeds on the donut shop worker.

I have to admit that I've been heavily influenced by lunasea's analysis of the Orpheus story as one where the woman who goes to hell and returns does so of her own violition, and with a little help, finds the strength to get herself back out of hell. I think that fits in also with the idea that the dream is created by Faith.
[> [> Masq, you quoted me! -- Scroll, 21:21:01 03/23/03 Sun

If I'd known you would quote me, I would've tried to be a little more eloquent : )

I think I agree with OnM's interpretation that the dream could have originated from Faith's mind. Or perhaps that the dream stems from the collective unconsciousness of both Faith and Angel(us). OnM, I like your term "dream-sharing", it's very fitting.

I can't remember who it was who first proposed the idea that the "Restless" dream, and the Buffy/Faith dreams, were shared consciousnesses, and not one dreamer being visited by manifestations (and not the actual conscious minds) of other people. The idea that these dreamscapes are built from the un/conscious minds of everyone involved is fascinating, like those Australian aboriginal myths about The Dreaming. A collective unconsciousness would explain the Scooby Gang's growing awareness of danger/the First Slayer in "Restless", and how Angel's words "I need you to fight" (which are spoken both in the real world and the dream world) can be understood by comatose Faith.

So I do agree that the Orpheus dream was for both Faith and Angel's benefit, though I lean more toward it being a dream-sharing rather than it "originating" in one brain or the other. I'd perhaps say that Angelus provided the setting, plot, characters and that Faith provided the theme, imagery, character motivations. Kind of a collaborative fanfic : )
[> [> [> Gosh, me too. -- Tyreseus, 16:28:13 03/24/03 Mon

Now I feel all fuzzy and warm inside.

And I have to also agree that the unanswered question about dream-sharing applies equally as strongly to Amends, if not more so. I wonder if that whole "vamp minds can't be read" thing only applies to the specific gift Buffy picked up in Earshot. Think of all the times Lorne has "read" Angel's singing. Of course, that's demon reading demon, but I've always had a problem with Angel's explanation of why Buffy couldn't read his mind - more so than why there are times when they share dreams.
[> [> [> [> You had such insight into Connor... -- Masq, 16:59:05 03/24/03 Mon

that tied his story line right into the redemption theme of the episode. When I read your post and understood it in the context of that theme, I did a happy dance.

Angel is the one who has been doing this the longest, he has a clear viewpoint about how redemption really works and tries to live by it.

Faith has been his student since Season 1 of AtS (or 3 of BtVS, depending on how you look at it), she finally understands Angel's philosophy by the end of the episode.

Connor is new at all of this, just beginning to screw up and not yet even aware of the consquences he is creating by doing it. Faith passes the wisdom on to him, and he probably doesn't understand it, but maybe one day will.
[> [> [> [> Lorne isn't reading Angel's mind or thoughts -- lunasea, 18:04:25 03/24/03 Mon

Not really sure what Lorne is reading. It isn't just souls, or he couldn't read Angelus. It is some amorphous Buffyverse concept that has our destiny.

A dream isn't mind reading also. The Buffyverse uses the same terms, but defines them differently. Mind-body-soul mean something different in Buffyland. It means whatever gives them the stories they want.
[> [> Re: Shared dreams -- lunasea, 05:52:01 03/24/03 Mon

To me one of the most important dream questions in the Buffyverse is why Buffy was in Angel's dream in "Amends." Hopefully this will be directly answered in the next few BtVS episodes. My theory is that the First was planting/coaxing the dreams in Angel and Buffy got sucked into them because she is so connected to him (she can feel when he is around, they are so connected). The First was trying to sever this connection and so both parties felt it. I hope to see this done again, perhaps in reverse with Angel being sucked into Buffy's dreams.

As for Faith, lets assume that it isn't anyone in particular's dream. It is actually hell created by Faith, much as the Wishverse was actually created in "The Wish" and revisited in "Dopplegangerland." That is why I refer to it as the hell-trip.

Everything is connected. When Faith creates this Hell-trip, she has at her disposal everything, including the memories of her role model. On some level, she already knew that Angel wasn't perfect. Wesley fills her in on what has happened with the Angel since her incarceration in "Salvage." That Connor even exists shows how imperfect Angel is. In her hell she explores how imperfect Angel really is.

Angel descends to hell to help direct this. Faith's unconscious picks the theme, but Angel picks the scenes. He leads her to the Barrens, where she can let go of her image of him. Faith is strong, so this should enable her to go back the surface. When Angel sees Faith still in hell he wants to know "Faith, why are you still here?"

If Angel descends to hell, he can't leave Angelus somewhere else. They are a unit. Faith created the hell, Angel descends to help her and Angelus has to come along for the ride. As Angel tells him, "Maybe because it isn't about you, jackass."

That is what makes it Angelus' hell. It isn't about him. Angelus tells Faith, "You didn't think my hell was private." Actually it is Faith's hell and it isn't private. The hell for Angelus isn't reliving Angel's good deeds. It is watching Angel ignore him again and being ignored by Angel again.

Since this hell-trip is an actual creation, it gives Angel an opportunity he has "been waiting a long time for." If it was truly a hell for Angel or Angelus, these two couldn't fight. Them being able to interact is a side-effect of Faith's created hell. For all we know, it is still going on. It didn't disappear when Faith left. When Angel had to become more concrete to help Faith, Angelus again got to come along for the ride.

This episode is particularly interesting in light of the hallucinations of "Deep Down" and the fantasy of "Awakening."
[> [> [> It's all connected -- lunasea, 10:17:12 03/24/03 Mon

In order to understand the hell-trip, we have to realize where it is taking place. It isn't in anyone's mind. Orpheus takes you down to hell and leaves you there. When we see Angelus and Faith murmuring, it isn't them mumbling in their sleep or coma, it is the connection that their psychic selves have with their bodies.

Their psychic selves are in hell, a hell created by Faith and manipulated by Angel. What happens there will echo in the bodies that they are still connected to and vice versa. The hell-trip opens with both of them mumbling. This is what creates the hell-trip. Faith is saying "scratch you out." That is exactly what the hell-trip does. It brings Angel/us with her (you) and it scratches Angel out of her system as he becomes not so role-modely and she realizes this is ok.

Angelus is murmuring "kill you." Angelus lashes out at the world because of Angel. As Angel tells him "She's not who you are after." Angelus wants to kill Angel. When Faith's hell is created and Faith has her image of Angel scratched out, Angelus' hell where he gets to try and kill Angel, but looses, continues.

We see Faith cry as she is in the Barrens. We see Faith open her eyes and gasp as she leaves the Barrens. Faith should have left hell at that point. Angel wants to know why she is still there. Her part is over.

Faith "rolled the bones, you for me," so she can't leave. Instead she is fading away/dying. What would happen to those who don't wake up? They stay in hell. Faith was fading away, because she felt it was you for me. Angel gets her to fight in hell, thus realize it isn't you for me.

Why does she get to wake up rather than be stuck in hell? Perhaps a bit of Faust plays into the Buffyverse. Faith woke up to save Angel. She is too good a person to end up in hell forever.

When Angel's body is resouled that too has ramifications in hell.

It is all connected, the psychic selves in hell and the physical bodies that are in comas.
[> Re: My analysis of 'Orpheus' is up -- Cactus Watcher, 21:15:09 03/23/03 Sun

It's sad that such a meaty episode came off so badly. I really did feel watching this one that the direction was very strange. Oddly, the two characters who come off the best are Willow and Faith, who don't work on Angel all the time. The only regular who had a notable performance was Wes. His big scene with Willow is odd because, Willow was so comfortable around him. AH and AD may be an item off-screen, but Wes and Willow were never this close. It would have been far more funny at the end, if Willow needed to tell Wes not Fred she was seeing someone. Your analysis shows the thought behind the episode was there. But the surface of the story was darn near laughable. Not ME's best work.
[> One possible answer -- Gyrus, 09:48:30 03/24/03 Mon

Unanswered question: If Angelus' hell is all in his own mind, how is it that Faith can enter it, since a vampire's mind is typically impervious to being "read"? The only explanation is that the Orpheus drug can somehow counter-act this, which makes sense, if it has become a psychedelic drug of choice to vampires.

Remember that Buffy's telepathic abilities back in S3 were entirely passive; she could "hear" everyone's surface thoughts, but she could not selectively attend to one mind or dig for information a person wasn't already thinking about. Angel's comment that "It's like the mirror. The thoughts are there, but they create no reflection in you," also suggests passivity; a mirror reflects whatever is put in front of it, and it shows only the surface of things.

In contrast, we saw Willow communicate telepathically with Spike in S5 and S6. She could both send and receive thoughts. Orpheus probably creates a similarly "active" connection between users, so that each user can actively participate in the other's reality. They are not simply "watching" each other as in a mirror.

Alternatively, the whole thing is the result of the writers' ignorance of canon, and I'm just a big fanwanker. :)
If Ideas are Opiates / Life Goes On, Bro - Thoughts On *Storyteller* ( ***Spoilers 7.16*** ) -- OnM, 20:11:10 03/23/03 Sun

*******

Primal Therapy is science. It's got nothing to do with religion. You relive the traumas that have happened to you.
Basically it's crying. That's why we call ourselves Tears for Fears. Some people go to a pub and get
drunk. We go to the studio and record a song.

............ Roland Orzabal

*******

I'm one of those who thinks that, in a very politicized time, everything is political, whether we want it to be or
not.

............ luna

*******

Everybody wants to rule the world.

............ Roland Orzabal

*******

But more fundamental, I believe, is the idea that stories, in real life, are the creations of those who act them out.
Buffy's staking of the vampires was not a show she put on -- it was her risking her neck to stop two evil
creatures who might be killing innocents in forty minutes if she lets them get by her.

What we have here is nothing less than a commentary of the show itself. In an unintentional way, it's a reward to
the fans who have followed the show for years, laughing and crying and caring as the characters grew and
changed. They are, in a sense, quite real even to us outside the box. Within the show, they are the storytellers.

............ Random

*******


Shortly after I was born, my parents became aware that there was something not quite right with my general
health. All babies and toddlers get colds and flu and that kind of stuff, but when I got them, the normally
temporary annoyance often morphed into something far more dangerous. At first, the pediatricians suspected that
I had allergies, and counseled my worried folks to avoid things like pet dander, plant pollen, certain foods, what
have you. But that wasn't the entire story, it was only the prolog.

They discovered that I had asthma, an infirmity that, as you may know, is increasing in prevalence among the
general population at an alarming rate in recent years. Normally I'd be happy to be ahead of my time, but not in
this case. It's a nasty illness-- and back in the 50's when I was suffering with it, there were very few effective
treatments that didn't also have other risky side effects. The primary tactic employed was extreme avoidance of
the 'triggers' that could initiate an attack-- allergies, colds, flu, exercise etc. If this failed, you either exhausted
yourself gasping for breath for several hours until the attack subsided, or headed for the hospital where there
were oxygen tents and risky drugs to be administered.

It was obviously a very bad time, both for myself and my parents. It never really occurred to me that I
could die-- you don't think that way when you're 4 or 5 years old-- but my mother and father knew only too well
that this was a real possibility, a possibility that wasn't helped by 'well-meaning' bystanders who on occasion
liked to inform them that asthma was 'a psychosomatic illness' and that the symptoms that I displayed were 'all
in my head', or just a clever move on my part to avoid doing any work/exercise.

But one good thing did come out of all of it, which is that I ended up learning to read at a very early age, far
earlier than most of the other kids who were my contemporaries. And that particular outcome occurred because
my parents read to me when I was sick.

It was an arc that grew out of desperation. When in the throes of an attack, it is difficult to lie down because that
makes it harder to breathe, but at the same time not being able to draw full breaths for an extended period leaves
you seriously physically weakened, and soon you are unable to stand or even sit under your own power. So, my
parents, usually my mother, would literally sit next to me in the bed and physically hold me in a sitting position to
help me breathe. This was a great benefit, but it didn't do much to help pass the agonizing time spent waiting for
the attack to die down and my airways to reopen. So, to help distract me from my misery, my mother would read
to me. And it worked.

I really don't recall any of the specific stories that she would read to me-- I was too out of it I suspect. But that
didn't matter. The soothing sound of her voice was an effective medication all of itself, and if she didn't have a
book to read from, or got too tired to hold up me and the book at the same time, she would just make up a story
of some kind right on the spot. As I think back on it, this may have been the reason why it was usually my
mother and not my father who distracted me in this fashion-- dad was a decent reader, but he couldn't make up
the stories on his own, so he deferred to his wife in this duty.

Mom never did any writing that I know of, I think mostly because she either never really thought seriously about
it, or was just too busy dealing with the time and space pressures of ordinary 'living'. Nevertheless, she was a
good reader and a good storyteller, and I sometimes wonder if my own affinity for words is connected to her at
some genetic level. I do know that as I recovered from my various attacks and returned to 'normal', I became
increasingly obsessed with having her teach me how to make those odd little markings down there on the pages
of the books turn into words that could emerge from my own lips.

So she set out to teach me, and for whatever reason-- sickness will take the mind where minds don't usually
go? -- I discovered that I had an aptitude for reading, and once I got started I began to read almost
constantly, even obsessively. By the time I got to kindergarten, I was reading at what my teacher guessed to be
an approximately third grade level. (And in what surely was an early warning sign of bad things to come
regarding myself and my increasingly bitter relationships with the 'educational system', the kindergarten teacher
berated my poor mother for teaching me, telling her that she had 'put me out of step with all the other children',
and that I 'might have been inadvertently ingrained with bad linguistic habits' or somesuch rot!)

(I only know this story because my mother had told me about it one time when I was much older, and how
offended she had been back then at the ridiculous insinuation that I was somehow 'too good' at something. Poor
Mom-- she didn't remotely understand the political subtext involved, but then to be fair, I didn't either until long
after I had escaped from high school myself and gained the perspective of distance and experience. She naively
thought that school was about learning, when in reality it's all about power. All I can say now is bless my mother
and my father, may they rest in peace, for allowing me to quietly keep what few delusions I have remaining.)

So it's no secret now that I became enthralled by storytellers at a very early age, because the stories were a way
to escape the pain of the real world. As I grew, my appreciation of them quickly passed beyond the merely
convenient sedative value and encompassed the sense of knowledge, adventure, and exploration they provided
me, all without having to leave the (more-or-less) comfort and safety of my immediate world. One of the things
that puzzled me throughout my early school years was how incredibly bad so many of my classmates were at
reading, and how they looked at it as a chore. However, readers or no, nearly all of us-- myself included--
thoroughly enjoyed the additional technological extensions of the storytelling matrix that was provided by the
movies, and especially this new-fangled device called television.

By the time that I was in my senior year of high school in 1971, it was pretty evident to me that television had
become a drug of sorts for the general population. Like most of my contemporaries, I didn't think this made it
inherently bad, just something that needed to be recognized as such and then dealt with carefully. Movies and TV
shows on video were still another five or six years away, computers were primitive and hideously expensive,
video games consisted of arcade units like 'Pong' that allowed you to bat an electronic ball back and forth
between two primitive electronic paddles, people would have said 'George Lucas who? if the name came
up in conversation, and to be a nerd meant that you were a reader.

Fast-forward 30 years. (Ouch! Sorry about the sudden acceleration, ya'all...) Video is everywhere, TV has
hundreds of channels available, the Internet is insinuating itself into the lives of nearly everyone in some way or
another, and we have storytellers everywhere, in living sound and color. The younger generation still reads, but
reading is increasingly seen as 'primitive', playing a weak second-fiddle to photographic/electronic adventures.
The current cultural/artistic trends that inhabit any economically successful society at any point in history now
spread like wildfire because the world is now literally 'all connected'. Film and television bring about their own
new 'languages', which the youth of the world eagerly (and effortlessly) adopt.

But one crucial thing does not change, as it has not throughout all of human history. Some people have the
ability, either inherently possessed or externally learned, to successfully seperate reality from illusion, and others
do not. For the latter, the lines between reality and storytelling can blur, and the two become as one.

And so we meet Andrew, a lonely and isolated individual whose name people have trouble remembering. Andrew
loves to hear and see stories, and loves relating them also, because that is how he manages to connect with other
humans, at least indirectly.

But Andrew finds the stories far more compelling than reality, reality that he would like to escape, reality where
direct connection to other people leads to being dismissed or ignored. It is unlikely that Andrew would even
remember when he first 'crossed the line', and some event from fiction entered his cerebral cortex and got filed
away in a manner indiscriminate from that originating from his actual sensory organs. Then, like a small rivulet of
flowing water widens into a brook and then a still larger stream, delusion and reality mix until one is like the
other.

Many years ago, I read an fascinating article by a police detective who explained that one of the reasons criminal
psychopaths could so often effortlessly deceive their victims is that when they were lying to someone, they
internally processed the lies as being the truth-- George Orwell's 'doublethink' technique in action. Apparently,
at the instant the lie is uttered, or perhaps even thought about, it gets reverse-phased into 'truth' in the liar's
brain. So, the criminal does not have to try to be convincing-- he or she is convincing.

Fortunately for Andrew, Buffy has intervened before this kind of psychotic behavior passed from the potential to
the practical. Andrew suppresses the subconscious (but accurate) knowledge that he is blurring reality with
fiction, because it brings him to a greater sense of personal well-being. Warren understood this, and actively took
advantage of it to push Andrew farther and farther along the disconnection path, because doing so brought
Warren greater power. Jonathan, misguided but still clearly reality-based, misunderstood the degree of
Andrew's self-deception up until it brought about his death.

In many ways, I can identify with the way that Andrew feels, even though I don't share his self-deceptive
abilities. One of the consequences of chronic illness as a young child is that it typically alienates you from other
children, and sometimes even from adults. Children don't understand because they haven't experienced it
firsthand, and some adults don't want to understand because it makes them feel vulnerable. I think about Buffy
and Webs back in Conversations with Dead People and how Buffy feels that no one can understand what
her life is like, that she is alone despite the close relationships with her friends and family. Webs doesn't do much
to reassure her when he states that ultimately 'everyone is alone, until they die'.

The fact that he's right is misleading because like many existential statements, it's only right from a certain frame
of reference. Are we alone? Of course we are-- in the physical sense, we are one body with one brain, one set of
thoughts that oversees/controls our perceptions of reality, our awareness. But for whatever reason, be it God or
happenstance, we are aware of being aware, and that makes all the difference. For creatures with
sentience, Everything is connected, and that is where we seperate ourselves, even the part that is
alone, from the rest of the living things around us. It's not that we desire to gain a spiritual or emotional
connection with other humans, because that could just be our ancient DNA blindly pursuing something that
benefits the survival of the species. It's that we want to understand the desire. And that desire to
understand makes it easy-- even natural-- to blur the lines.

Buffy feels that she is alone because her frame of reference is heavily slanted towards her identity as Slayer, and
because ultimately she knows that others will live or die as a result of her decisions. Andrew feels that he is alone
because he is so socially powerless that no one even particularly cares for his opinion on anything. Both
individuals try to make connections with others, but the connections get interrupted and corrupted by the skewed
ways that they see reality.

Buffy, while she has made great progress over the last six years in understanding herself, still insists on
shouldering the primary burden of her duty. I really don't think that it's selfishness, or even the superiority
complex Webs alluded to. If Buffy truly worked alone, as previous Slayers did, she would not have to agonize
over protecting the people she allows to get close to her. Doctors, for example, utilize a form of dissociation to
keep a certain emotional distance from their patients, because despite doing everything they are trained to do to
save lives, the patients sometimes die. Buffy can use this kind of controlled dissociation when the people she is
fighting to protect are strangers, but not when it's her friends or family. Every time the Scoobies assist her in a
serious battle, she cannot escape the awareness that they could be seriously injured or even die. She loves her
friends, and knows that they love her, and it's just too much to bear. So, she hardens herself, becomes
Generalissimo Summers, gives the rousing/boring speeches pointing out all of the dangers ahead. It's a distancing
tactic, one that brings about a kind of psychosis of its own-- perversely, Buffy feels alone because she knows the
love of others.

Andrew's problem is that he still can't find someone who loves him, or even seems to genuinely care for him. His
normal actions all take place in a relationship vacuum, something he understandably finds intolerable. So, his
dissociative behavior takes him the only place where he receives that love and attention-- fantasy scenarios where
he is brave or clever or talented or even just simply noticed. As he grows older, he finds some solace in
associating with other emotionally deprived persons, recognizing either consciously or subconsciously how much
they are like him, and knowing that misery at least loves company. But the associations are weak, because his
comrades are as screwed up as he is. It's still the blind leading the blind, even if they are pretty mobile otherwise.
This leaves Andrew open to influence, for better or for worse, and Warren definitely was for the worse.

When he initially enters the Summers houshold as their hostage guestage, he is pretty much mistreated
and ignored, for understandable reasons. It is often related that longer-term political hostages develop sympathy
over time with their captors, seeing them as human beings with their own desperate needs that have propelled
them into radical behavior. Andrew's situation at Casa Summers brings an unusual twist to this old story
whereby the hostage-takers gradually warm up to the hostage. It doesn't happen overnight, but it gradually does
happen.

Dawn, initially one of those who delight in tormenting Andrew, begins to understand the loneliness and isolation
behind Andrew's actions-- loneliness and isolation that she herself has had to deal with in the past. She begins to
treat him with greater compassion and he responds in kind. By the time the events of Storyteller take
place, only Buffy is still holding him at arms length-- which makes sense. If Andrew changes size-- errr, sides--
and grows into being a useful member of the gang, then here is one more closer emotional attachment for Buffy
to add to her existing burden. Andrew has obviously switched loyalties to the degree that he now wants to
document Buffy's activities as Slayer, make up an historical record of her good deeds. True, it also serves as yet
another distraction for Andrew to avoid confronting his own failures, with the worst being the murder of his
friend Jonathan. But as Spike notes, it 'gives the boy something to do'-- idle nerd hands being the sorcerer's
apprentice and all.

A number of fans have noted the thematic similarities between Spike and Andrew, and those similarities follow
through in the way that Buffy tough-loves Andrew into making a critical decision. Just like Buffy demanded
Spike get out of the school basement and show that having his soul back really meant something, she places
Andrew in a situation where he is forced to deal with the consequences of his actions and accept a painful truth.
Whether or not the truth will 'set him free' remains to be seen, but we got to witness the sad and marvelous
ending moments of the show with just the lonely, frightened Andrew and his camera, understanding at last that
real life is not a story. Or maybe that it is, just not one you always get to author. Whatever the case, it's still a
genuine step in the direction of redemption.

I can't help but wonder if the end of this season (and of course the show itself) will be about the actions of the
collective 'sinners' that Buffy has directly or indirectly 'saved'-- Angel, Faith, Spike, even Andrew-- that prevent
the apocalypse from occurring. Of course, less obvious but no less important is whether Buffy's own latent
connections to the divine will rise above her fears and self-doubts and enable her to dismiss the presence of the
First Evil as effortlessly as she did back in Amends.

But that story's still being told.

***

So, there you had a few idle meanderings about Andrew and folks like me who can really sympathize with him at
times. Now for some ep space around the Andrew-ness.

You know, it's so strange the little things that you latch onto, pick out from the dense surroundings. There was
no shortage of both internal and external references piled into this episode, which certainly represented another
truly brilliant piece of work from the mind of Jane Espenson.

There was the clever and humorous Masterpiece Theater allusion that opened the show, with Andrew doing his
best Alistair Cooke impression. There was the Star Wars poster in that self-same shot, nestled quietly in among
the Nietsche and Shakespeare. There was Anya using the term 'masturbation' to diss Andrew, who plaintively
stated that he was holed up in the bathroom trying to 'inform and entertain'-- surely this had to be the writers
humorously metanarrating on themselves?

There was fantasy spokesmodel Buffy having an organic moment with the wheat flakes and Anya cavorting with
some grapes. There was the disappearing girl and the exploding nerd. There was Robin Wood using the word
'focussy' in a sentence. There was Willow looking bored while Buffy gives one of her now classic (we presume)
motivational speeches. There was Andrew's camera passing over a happily smootching Willow and Kennedy on
the couch to zero in on some of Xander's craftsmanlike window repair work right above them.

There was the shocking revelation of the murder weapon in the cutlery drawer-- proof positive of just how
heavily Andrew has repressed the reality of his role in Jonathan's death. There was the less shocking revelation
that Xander and Anya still love one another, and getting to watch Andrew caught up in the moment, speaking
along with Anya's words (but not Xander's) during the emotional reconciliation captured on videotape. BTW, I
know that ME is suggesting that Xander and Anya are 'over', despite the lovemaking session, but I really hope
this isn't the case. These two crazy kids belong together, I don't care what anyone says. Xander is right--
"I'm never gonna find another girl like you, am I?"

Then there was the pig that might be a student. Cute l'il pigs seem to be a recurring theme this year in ME-land.
Is there a Charlotte's Web subtext we need to pay attention to?

There was the big board. There were wannabe gods singing among the flowers. There was attempted Spike
dustage and Wood seeming to be surprised at Buffy 'getting it done'. There was Spike proudly telling Wood that
'she always has'.

There was all of this and more, and it was manifestly marvelous. But what I recall most fondly was the payoff for
an incredibly subtle joke set up in two previous episodes, when during some fast-paced action sequences, the
moving camera pauses ever-so-briefly but still-so-noticeably on posters reading 'PEP RALLY' on the
interior walls of Sunnydale High. Pep Rally? Pep Rally?? So? What the hell are they up to, they
must have slowed the camera there for a reason, made certain we noticed.

And then it is revealed: CHEERLEADERS DIE appears hand-scrawled on those same school walls
during the 'riot' that the Hellmouth energy engenders. And I laugh myself silly, recalling that earlier in the show,
Buffy analyzes the high-school angst dynamic in microcosm and ends with 'everybody hates the
cheerleaders'.

But I'm a weird dude at times. It's a very small joke as Buffyverse jokes go, but for me it recalls the spirit of the
scene in the movie Airplane where the prop department outfits a jumbo jet with a giant beard and
skullcap for a five-second on-screen shot while the voiceover says "Air Israel, please clear the runway!".
Now that's devotion to one's art-- truly, deeply, madly. And there are those who think that ME is getting
sloppy in its dotage? And by the way, just for the record, I personally did not hate the cheerleaders when
I was in high school. But I did loathe pep rallys with a searing intensity generally reserved for things like amoebic
dysentery or getting up too early in the morning. Pep rallies were boring and stupid and pointless to the point of
taking your breath away.

Been there, done that. Tell me another story, ma.

;-)

*******

Welcome to your life / There's no turning back
Even while sleeping / We will find you
Acting on your best behaviour / Turn your back on mother nature
Everybody wants to rule the world

It's my own design / It's my own remorse
Help me to decide / Help make the most
Of freedom and of pleasure / Nothing ever lasts forever
Everybody wants to rule the world

There's a room where the light won't find you
Holding hands while the walls come tumbling down
When they do I'll be right behind you
So glad we've almost made it / So sad they had to fade it
Everybody wants to rule the world

I can't stand this indecision / Married with a lack of vision
Say that you'll never never need it / One headline why believe it ?
All for freedom and for pleasure / Nothing ever lasts forever
Everybody wants to rule the world

............ Roland Orzabal

*******

If I had a boat / I'd go out on the ocean
And if I had a pony / I'd ride him on my boat
And we could all together / Go out on the ocean
Me upon my pony on my boat

If I were Roy Rogers
I'd sure enough be single
I couldn't bring myself to marrying old Dale
It'd just be me and trigger
We'd go riding through them movies
Then we'd buy a boat and on the sea we'd sail

The masked man he was smart
He got himself a Tonto
'Cause Tonto did the dirty work for free
But Tonto he was smarter
And one day said kemo sabe
Kiss my ass I bought a boat
I'm going out to sea

And if I were like lightning
I wouldn't need no sneakers
I'd come and go wherever I would please
And I'd scare 'em by the shade tree
And I'd scare 'em by the light pole
But I would not scare my pony on my boat out on the sea

And if I had a boat / I'd go out on the ocean
And if I had a pony / I'd ride him on my boat
And we could all together / Go out on the ocean
Me upon my pony on my boat

............ Lyle Lovett

*******
[> Asthma -- Tchaikovsky, 02:12:12 03/24/03 Mon

Great review as always, OnM. I too am an asthman sufferer, although I have had the blessing of living in an age where the medication is relatively safe, and I rarely have to worry about its affect on my life. I found your whole introduction section on stortelling very interesting and powerful.

TCH
[> Re: If Ideas are Opiates / Life Goes On, Bro - Thoughts On *Storyteller* ( ***Spoilers 7.16*** ) -- Cactus Watcher, 06:33:18 03/24/03 Mon

Unfortunately, the world has never been short of teachers so foolish, that they are afraid of children who know more than they are 'supposed to.' My sister and my brother's son both had similar run-ins with folks intellectually unsuited for the job of teaching primary grade pupils. I had no real problems with that sort of thing till I was old enough to have some chance of compensating for the crappy teacher's inability to be flexible. I'd be more upset about these teachers, but I realize the schools can only hire people who've applied for the job, and it's difficult to weed out the true misfits.

Obviously reading is a lot easier if you grow up in a family that values it. I was very lucky that my dyslexia is minor and that I learned to compensate for it as I was learning to read, and thus no one, including me, knew I had it until I was grown. Guessing what the next word would be before I saw it, came easily and made understanding foreign languages later a lot more easy for me. My brain skipping ahead does however make it impossible to write properly in one pass consistantly, and everybody knows what a crappy proof reader I am. Hence, in grade school I got graded down for being messy, because I had to keep correcting things I wrote, and didn't get graded down for being a bad reader. One of my nieces was not so fortunate and had all kinds of problems in school and even in her family because her dylexia was so bad she could barely read at all when she was young.
[> The Spider, The Pig and His Owner-Spoilers for Charlotte's Web -- Arethusa, 07:45:00 03/24/03 Mon

Then there was the pig that might be a student. Cute l'il pigs seem to be a recurring theme this year in ME-land.
Is there a Charlotte's Web subtext we need to pay attention to?


Maybe there is, in a twisted, Looking Glass way, where the spider is really evil, inflating Andrew's importance to use, not save him. IIRC-it's been a while since I read the book-Wilbur the Pig is the runt of the litter scheduled to be killed by his farmer owner, but saved by the farmer's daughter Fern. When he becomes big enough to slaughter, a friendly spider, Charlotte, saves his life by spinning florid descriptions of him above his sty. "What a pig!" is one of them, I believe. We've already seen several hints of a spider as evil-the spray-painted graffiti in STSP, the giant spider in Selfless, "Webs," etc. From the very beginning I was reminded of the evil spider below the town in Steven King's It. Andrew is definitely the runt of the Troika litter, with The First/Spider weaving tales of his greatness to deceive him that he is important. And Fern is Buffy, who saves Wilbur/Andrew's life, but is superceeded in importance by Charlotte/The First. Before Charlotte dies, she gives birth to thousands of little spiders (Turok-Han?) that set forth to sustain themselves by sucking the life out of insects, and in turn creating thousands more spiders. (Not the ending I hope to see.)
[> [> I always thought Charlotte... -- Scroll, 16:42:51 03/24/03 Mon

Charlotte dies, she gives birth to thousands of little spiders (Turok-Han?) that set forth to sustain themselves by sucking the life out of insects, and in turn creating thousands more spiders.

I always thought Charlotte would be like Buffy herself. She's giving all these speeches -- rhetoric like Charlotte's praise of Wilbur the Pig. Buffy is the mother figure with thousands of offspring -- all those young potential Slayers. Buffy's death brings forth the next generation -- Charlotte's death makes way for her baby spider children. I saw this more as a matriarchal creation myth more than anything else. Though the First Evil as the spider also works

Or maybe Buffy and the First Evil are both Charlotte? Maybe Joss is saying Buffy and the First Evil are more alike than they realise? That they are two sides of the same coin?
[> [> [> Re: I always thought Charlotte... -- Arethusa, 18:20:10 03/24/03 Mon

Lol. Both ideas are great-Charlotte as Buffy, slaying to bring about future generations.
[> Asthma, mothers and knives -- LadyStarlight, 08:12:54 03/24/03 Mon

In late '96, early '97, my oldest had what was the first of his bouts with croup. Midnight run to the hospital, panic & a stay in a croup tent late, his doctor wanders in and promptly announces "he has asthma & I want to put him on steroids". I was a tad shocked by that, as I'd always assumed that there had to be some sort of pattern, or test, or something before a diagnosis was made.

Fast-forward 18 months, me resisting the asthma/steroid thing all the way, to a routine dr's appointment. Fancy my surprise when the dr walks in, looks at my son & lets out a long "ohhhh". She then turns to me & says "I just realized that I've been mistaking your son for another patient of mine with asthma. Gee, it's a good thing I didn't put him on steroids, eh?" The only reason I didn't try to find another doctor was the fact that we were moving in 2 months.

Anyways, that little story was to bring up the point that I could empathize with both your mother's panic & fright and also Buffy's. I didn't see her Generalissimo approach as covering that same sort of panic (something's happening and I might not be able to fix it) until now. This makes me a little more able to bear the speeches.


There was the shocking revelation of the murder weapon in the cutlery drawer-- proof positive of just how
heavily Andrew has repressed the reality of his role in Jonathan's death.

My first thought when Andrew tells them where to find the knife was: there's a bajillion people in Casa Summers right now and nobody noticed the funky knife in the drawer? Doesn't anybody do dishes around there? But then I thought about it some more & wondered if the First couldn't perhaps put a low-level glamour spell on it or something so that it wouldn't be seen.
[> The stories we tell ourselves -- ponygirl, 08:57:54 03/24/03 Mon

OnM that was beautiful! I felt pretty isolated growing up and reading was my big refuge. It's interesting how easy it is to cross the line between fantasy as a comfort and fantasy as an escape. There have certainly been times in my life when I've chosen the perfection of fantasy over the messiness of reality. The trouble is life still happens to us, no matter how much we'd like to avoid it.

I think a really important part of Storyteller was Buffy admitting to Andrew that she doesn't have all the answers, that she has doubts and uncertainties. To surrender the fantasy required Andrew to give up that wonderful security that comes from living inside your own head. In our own minds we do live as gods (or even more powerfully as authors). In the end with his camera he couldn't finish because he's realizing for the first time that he doesn't know what will happen.

Great review OnM, worth the wait!
[> Cool! -- HonorH, 09:01:39 03/24/03 Mon

Another brilliant analysis, OnM, and this one without help either from Sol or your Evil Clone (who, btw, look remarkably similar to the uneducated eye). People will start taking you for granted.

Anya: you know, I don't think she was "dissing" Andrew by suggesting he was taking his allotted bathroom time to masturbate. Actually, given her recent, very vocal, frustrations, I'd say she was genuinely curious about why he wasn't, er, seizing the opportunity.

My, wasn't that deep and philosophical?

As for A/X, I'm with you. Those two just *work*. Me, I'm hoping Anya's now got a bun in the oven. This season, both Buffy and Angel have had a remarkable emphasis on mothers, both literal and figurative, and Anya becoming pregnant would certainly continue that theme. I sure hope so. An Anya/Xander baby would be too cute for words.

As for the pig, remember: "Along came a spider . . ."
[> Thank you, OnM -- dub, 10:55:30 03/24/03 Mon

That was wonderful.

(I only know this story because my mother had told me about it one time when I was much older, and how
offended she had been back then at the ridiculous insinuation that I was somehow 'too good' at something. Poor
Mom-- she didn't remotely understand the political subtext involved, but then to be fair, I didn't either until long
after I had escaped from high school myself and gained the perspective of distance and experience. She naively
thought that school was about learning, when in reality it's all about power. All I can say now is bless my mother
and my father, may they rest in peace, for allowing me to quietly keep what few delusions I have remaining.)

How fortunate you were in your parents, that they acted as a buffer between you and the "system," as far as possible.

My experience was that something happened in early grade school (a test or something?) that meant my mother and father had to go and speak to my teacher and the principal. My interpretation was that this was, ahem, "not a good thing."

I was soon after placed in an "accelerated" grade 3/4/5 class that was supposed to do the three years in two. This meant being removed from the mainstream classes the rest of my friends were in, and being isolated as "different." My young mind also thought it meant I was supposed to do everything faster than other kids, which was exhausting after a while, lol. After only one year in the accelerated class, I was placed in an "enriched" grade six class (which I loathed).

In spite of all this, I achieved only mediocre grades in high school, stayed home "sick" whenever possible, and was encouraged by my parents to pursue the "business" rather than the "academic" stream, so that I would be guaranteed a job upon graduation. I have spent almost my entire working life as a secretary or the glorified equivalent, an "administrative assistant." I was very fortunate to work for some time as a copyeditor, but the person whose job I was doing recovered and returned to work, and I went back to my "normal" duties.

In 1973 I obtained a recommendation for university entrance on the basis of a battery of tests done by the Counselling Department at the university to which I had applied. The results were described as being "in the top 1% of the population." Until fairly recently I was unaware of how "intelligent" this was considered to be. [I can only attribute this to my abysmal lack of understanding of mathematics of any kind, including the significance of percentages!]

I do not recall at any time anyone in the education system telling me that I had high intelligence, or that I was particularly smart. My parents certainly never alluded to it, although they did not respond as positively to As on my report card as they did to Bs on my sister's or Cs on my brother's.

During the last 10 years or so I've had occasion to engage in IQ testing and for the first time have had the actual results in my hands. Prior to that ol' aneurysm last year, my IQ measured consistently in the 160-164 range (somewhere between Einstein and Mozart). Since then it's dropped to about 153.

Now, this may be just another example of how high IQ is not an effective measure of predictability for success in life (an idea with which I completely agree) but I can't help but think that it might have helped me out a little if someone had just told me I was pretty smart, and could probably do other things if I wanted to...

Oh well.

dub ;o)
[> [> Wow, I just remembered... -- dub ;o), 13:19:08 03/24/03 Mon

...what it was that led to the meeting with the teacher and principal! After all this time, it just came to me.

I was an avid reader, and I loved comic books, especially Superman comic books. But I was also a little girl of the 50s and early 60s, and I wore cute little dresses to school, and Mary Janes with white socks, and my Mom curled my (then) blondish hair in ringlets and put pink ribbon in it--get the picture? By grade two I had internalized the notion that little girls like me weren't supposed to read Superman comic books.

Then I did an in-class composition in Grade 2 for Miss Fleck (God! She was Scottish--I can see her standing there!) and used the word "invulnerable," which of course was standard fare for Superman fans. Miss Fleck called me up in front of the class and asked me to explain what invulnerable meant, and I did. That was cool. Then she asked me where I had learned that word. That was not cool. I panicked. I think I said something about reading it in a book somewhere, and next thing I knew, meeting with principal and special tests and things.

Whoa! Head rush! My short term memory may be shot to hell, but there's obviously still stuff from 40 years ago that I can dredge up. LOL.

;o)

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