December 2002 posts


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Travers and Churchill......"Still Captains of our Souls" from Sept. 9/1941 speech. -- Rufus, 20:35:55 12/01/02 Sun

Churchill Society


"Still Captain of our Souls"

HOUSE OF COMMONS

September 9, 1941


Late in July I learned that the President of the United States would welcome a meeting with me in order to survey the entire world position. I obtained His Majesty's permission to leave the country.

I crossed the Atlantic Ocean in one of our latest battleships to meet the President at a convenient place. Important conclusions were reached on four main topics.

First of all, an eight point declaration of the broad principles and aims which guide and govern the actions of the British and United States governments and peoples. . . Secondly, on measures to be taken to help Russia to resist the hideous onslaught which Hitler has made upon her; thirdly . . . the policy to be pursued toward Japan . . .
fourthly, there was a large number of purely technical matters which were dealt with and close personal relations were established between high naval, military and air authorities of both countries . . .

I have, as the House knows, hitherto consistently deprecated the formulation of peace aims, or war aims - however you put it - by His Majesty's Government at this stage. I deprecate it at this time, when the end of the war is not in sight. But a Joint Declaration by Great Britain and the United States is a process of a totally different
nature.

Although the principles in the Declaration, and much of the language, have long been familiar to the British and American democracies, the fact that it is a united Declaration sets up a milestone or monument which needs only the stroke of victory to become a permanent part of
the history of human progress . . .

Thus far then have we travelled along the terrible road we chose at the call of duty. The mood of Britain is wisely and rightly averse from every form of shallow or premature exultation. This is no time for boasts or glowing prophecies, but there is this: A year ago our position looked forlorn, and well nigh desperate to all eyes but our
own. To-day we may say aloud before an awe-struck world: "We are still masters of our fate. We are still captain of our souls."



It was nightfox7 on the Trollop Board that brought this speech up. Of course I think the Travers/Churchill parallel is a fitting one, except that Churchill won, Travers who could never cooperate with anything and thought his institution was the be all and end all went kablooey.

[> Now for a link that actually works -- Rufus, 20:40:12 12/01/02 Sun

Captains of our Souls speech

[> Re: Travers and Churchill......"Still Captains of our Souls" from Sept. 9/1941 speech. -- gds, 23:22:41 12/01/02 Sun

Are you SURE the WATCHERS went kablooey or just the HQ? I see no reason to believe they were in it at the time. Furthermore it dosen't make any sense to me dramatically to re-introduce the WC just to kill them all off before they can do anything. More likely, the FE got a few that were 'holding down the fort' & will continue to attack the rest as they head toward the Hellmouth. I am assuming that they meant the Sunnydale Hellmouth, but that too is open to question.

Thanks for the Churchill info. It points to possible Buffy/WC analogies to FDR/Churchill.

[> [> Re: Travers and Churchill......"Still Captains of our Souls" from Sept. 9/1941 speech. -- Rufus, 00:29:48 12/02/02 Mon

The Heart of the Council...or what Wesley called the Watchers Council of Britain appears to be needing some restoration. I'm sure there are Watchers who may have survived but on the whole I think the aim of whoever planted the explosives was to strike at the heart to keep the Watchers off their back.

And If Life Is Just A Highway, Then The Soul Is Just A Car - Thoughts on *Never Leave Me* (Pt. I) -- OnM, 22:23:31 12/01/02 Sun

*******

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

............ author unknown ( from a song heard today on the radio )

*******

Buffyized: A state of being whereby all of one's intellectual/emotional perceptions are filtered through insights
gained by extensively watching the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

*******

This is hardly a secret to anyone who's read my stuff for any period of time, but I've been more-than-partially
Buffyized for some number of years now. It is, however, just starting to occur to me to just what degree this
mythology has started to influence my day-to-day thinking. For example, take the title of this week's review/
essay journey/ adventure.

( No, take it, really. I'm not going to explain it directly. What fun would that be? )

I recall a time some years back when I was listening to a conversation on the radio between the host and a guest
musician, and one of the questions the host asked was whether the song title preceded the creation of the song
itself, or vice-versa. The artist confessed that the title usually came afterwards, that he was really not very good
with titles, and sometimes just made something up that might not even really relate to the content of the song
directly, but had only a tenuous linkage at best. "Otherwise", the musician quipped, "I'd have an awful lot of
stuff titled 'Untitled', and everyone would get awfully confused."

Other musicians (and writers), of course, are 'good' with titles, and the short thematic summations their headings
represent may either precede or postdate the main content of the work, depending on the individual muse and
mental methodology.

I personally tend to do a mixture of both when I sit down to ponder and write about these BtVS episodes.
Sometimes, a certain element of the show will call out to me, and I just extemporize on it, or I may glom onto a
song lyric or other witty/clever quotation-- not necessarily from the show-- and make it the title. Then from said
title, thoughts commence.

Sometimes the title vs. theme connection is initially rather tenuous, and sometimes after I write the entire essay, I
think back on the title and find it suddenly seems deep-rooted in appropriateness. The only remaining question
for me to consider at that point is whether or not I had some original, unconscious feeling that I expressed by
'connecting' with the title subject, and then as I worked with the bones, the vision of the original flesh appeared
gradually around them, or if I just like to believe that it did, and it all was a considered illusion.

So, we have roads, and cars, and souls, and journeys and I in my inimitably Buffyized manner have brought it all
down to wondering whether ME had planned everything all along, or came up with a cool idea here and there
and retconned it into eventual clarity. And, do I care?

That question's easy for me-- not only don't I particularly care, but I welcome it, because as I have brought up
before, everything gets down to intention, and the intent here is to take the bare bones and gradually construct
the flesh around them because the totality of the flesh (imagined or not) is so much more interesting than the dry
accuracy of the minimalist skeleton. Does this make sense?

As one example, the waxing/waning debate about Spike's 'true nature' has been re-engaged, as a perusal of the
board over the previous week will reveal. Good points on many sides are offered as to whether
pro-'redemptionists' are conveniently overlooking Spike's very nasty 'real' past prior to meeting Buffy, or
whether the pro-'realists' are overlooking the now-profffered statement from our heroine that she 'believes in'
Spike and that he can face and ultimately defeat his inner beast.

Is Never Leave Me all about Spike? No, actually it's all about Buffy and Xander. Read on, and see why,
at least according to yours truly and his own personal enhancements and/or retcons.

( BTW, the material in italics with the '***' enclosures is lifted from Leoff's wildfeed ep summary,
which for the benefit of those who are mostly unspoiled like myself, is nevertheless a very fine, non-shippy, 'as it
happens' revisit to the ep when looked at after the actual airing. I am using it in excerpts here to save
myself a lot of work, lazy old coot that I am, so a BIG BIG THANKS to Leoff for all his arduous efforts in
doing the wildfeed each and every week. Deletions of parts of Leoff's original text are noted by (...) and changes
are noted with [ ] . )


*******

Road runner, road runner / Goin' bout ten miles an hour
Gonna drive by the Stop'n'Shop / With the radio on

............ Jonathan Richman & The Modern Lovers

*******


Accelerating now:


*** Still repairing the damage from Dawn's horrific encounter, Xander [is fixing] windows as Anya, Dawn,
and Willow straighten up. Dawn is trying to understand why they're keeping Spike around, which Willow says it's
complicated. Anya pipes up, wondering why they don't just stake him, with him being evil and all, it's what they
do. She looks to Xander for agreement, but Xander simply comments "I've got a house to put back together."
***


Throughout this episode as in the several that preceded it, we continue to see the increasingly considered and
thoughtful actions of a mature, adult Buffy, but has anyone noticed that as so goes Buffy, so goes Xander?
Instead of allowing Anya's 'evil and all' comment to present him with an new opportunity to discourse on how
much he loathes and distrusts Spike, he demurs entering the discussion and instead wants to 'put the house back
together'.

Assuming that Buffy is the mother of the new Summer's household, is Xander becoming the father? If so, he's
certainly not the father archetype of the 50's-ish 'Father Knows Best' type of TV show, where the Dad makes all
the big decisions and acts very militaristic and leader-like. In the Buffyverse in 2002, Buffy is the
leader-like type, and Xander is the one who keeps the 'household' in order, and looks after the 'children'.
Comfortador, anyone? Well, please note that later on during the ep's 'big fight' Xander mirrors Joyce's action
(from the S2 ep School Hard) in conking Spike on the head with an axe handle when he threatened to kill
Buffy (who was on the floor and vulnerable after fighting an otherwise excellent fight) with conking the the FE's
harbinger on the head when the creature threatened Dawn.

Now, we cut to a scene of:

*** Black, heavy boots walk down a night-time street. The image slowly pans up, showing a familiar long,
leather duster flowing on around a menacing form. (...) [It's] Andrew! He walks nervously as [FE/Warren] pops
up from behind, wondering how he's feeling. Andrew nervously says "good." Warren tries to set Andrews mind
on the job at hand, but Andrew wants to walk around and look cool in the coat. Andrew then complains about
Johnathan's death not "working" and wondering why he has to do all the wet work. Warren says it's necessary
because he can't yet take corporeal form and has Andrew prove it by having him pass his hand through Warren's
chest. (...) Warren says that he needs Andrew's help, and Andrew starts to worry, saying he doesn't think he can
kill anyone again. Warren then morphs into [FE/Jonathan], who tells him to stop worrying about it. (...) Jonathan
then says that Andrew doesn't have to worry, they can work around Andrew not being able to kill anyone else.
***


ME continues to amaze me by theier continual process of taking characters who start out as bit players or
one-time-joke figures and builds them and builds them over the course of time-- sometimes for years-- until they
start to become fully-fleshed individuals. This is now starting to be the case with Andrew.

Andrew is a pathetic figure, and always has been, but unlike Warren he lacks the killer instinct. He still hasn't
managed to seperate reality from fantasy-- he acts like he is a character in a movie, but even then he isn't sure
just what character. Is he Neo from The Matrix? Darth Vader from Star Wars? James
Bond? The fact that all of these fantasy people are different in their inner natures doesn't seem to really get
through to Andrew, he just sees them as 'cool', and wants desperately to attain that same degree of coolness.
The means aren't that important, except when they push far enough against the grain of his moral envelope that
he starts to become uncomfortable.

Is Andrew redeemable? The Scoobies-- and particularly Buffy-- still aren't aware that he has killed Jonathan, and
I have to wonder if Buffy and the gang would have been so 'gentle' with him if they had known this. Buffy
certainly knows that Jonathan was not much of an evildoer, and would have been proud that he had 'seen the
light' and wanted to make sincere amends to her and the gang if he had been given the chance. Complicating the
mix is the question of how much actual guilt Andrew can reasonably pass off from being under the influence of
the FE. Spike seems to be getting some consideration for his evil deeds, as did Anya. Will Andrew receive the
same treatment when Buffy eventually finds out, or will she hold Andrew to a higher standard because he is a
human, not a demon? This is a really sticky issue, and it surely relates to realverse situations where murderers or
other criminals declare that they acted 'under the influence'. Finally, the whole 'who's guilty of what and why'
issue ties into Buffy's past and (likely) future dealings with Faith.


Now, as if to suggest a possible answer, we leave this scene and return to the Summers' house, where
Buffy is tying Spike's hands/arms to a sturdy-looking chair.

*** "We're gonna get to the bottom of this, we just can't take any chances." says Buffy (...). [Spike] sits, not
struggling, (...) letting himself be tied down, even telling Buffy that she has to make the bonds tighter,
commenting that if he gets free, someone's gonna die. ***


Buffy has agreed to 'help' Spike, because she has judged him to be sincere in asking for it. I wondered at the
minimal level of restraints she places on Spike when she ties his wrists to the chair. Sturdy looking or not, Spike
is extremely strong, far more so when in full vamp mode, and my immediate impression was that he could escape
the chair easily if he really wanted to. Was the idea to show him that Buffy has placed an element of trust in him,
that the ropes are more intended as a psychological suggestion that he restrain himself as opposed to
providing literal physical helplessness? Remember that Buffy knows that something is playing with
Spike's mind, but she still doesn't know just what, exactly.


After the opening credits, we brake just a bit and return to a scene of:.

*** Principal Wood [sitting] at his desk, facing two uncaring teens who had apparently defaced a wall
somewhere. The Principal threatens suspension and marks on their permanent records, or they can repaint the
wall. The two teen boys easily say 'suspend us', which Wood rolls his eyes at. He then admits to the boys that
the whole 'permanent records' thing is pretty much a sham, and that doing the paperwork for suspension is a big
pain for him, so instead, he's just going to call up the Police. Given that choice, the boys 'willingly' agree to
repaint the wall. A knock is heard, and Wood meets Dawn, who stopped in to inform him that Buffy won't be in
at work today, she's been up all night vomiting, and vomiting again, and again, and then again. Wood says they'll
muddle on without her, [after which] Dawn smiles and goes off. ***


Two very neat little things happen here in this otherwise innocuous 'startup' scene. Although another sequence
later on in the ep casts suspicion on whether or not Principal Wood is on the side of the good guys or the bad,
the way he handles this situation with the two student vandals is revealing. Like Buffy, PW seems willing to
'think outside the box', which is very unusual for a typical Sunnydale authority figure. Classically,
Sunnydale authority figures are either 'deeply stupid' (in Principal Snyder's terms) or pettily vindictive and/or
evil (like Snyder himself). But Wood is both uncharacteristically revealing of his feelings and at the same time
effective in producing the desired result. He projects authority bereft of insecurity, but at the same time is upfront
about his motives-- he isn't disingenuous. Is this man a Watcher, sent by the Council to look after Buffy without
her knowing about it? The high school principal role would be a perfect cover, but I don't think the Council sent
him-- I think it may have been Giles. There are several possible reasons to support this idea, which I'll get
into after the next scene, where Buffy is phoning the Council in an attempt to reach Giles.

The second thing I noticed is that Dawn is more than happy to foster the lie that her sister is sick, and therefore
can't come in to school today. Dawn's actions present several layered motivations, all of which are both funny
and revealing:

One, she gets to be 'legally naughty' for perpetuating what she knows to be an untruth, which certainly must
appeal to the normally recessive 'want-take-have' side of her makeup. Two, there is the classic ol' ME
switcheroo-- Buffy is the 'mother', and Dawn is the student, but the no-show excuse is being made on behalf of
the mother. Three, it would have been enough for Dawn to simply tell PW that Buffy was sick and
couldn't come in, but she feels the overwhelming desire to elaborate in expressively vivid detail as to the nature
of Buffy's malady, inevitably painting a humiliating visual picture of her sister in PW's mind. Is this (some
basically harmless) revenge for lots of little former sisterly slights, not to mention the 'posable Dawn' incident
and Xander's fear that she might 'vomit' while paralyzed? I can't help but think so-- she was just so darn perky
and upbeat while delivering the 'bad news'.

From this scene we upshift to:

*** "I need to find him as soon as possible", says a stern voiced Buffy on the phone to Quentin Travers. She
is trying to locate Giles, but Quentin downplays Giles' importance, saying he 'doesn't keep track of the man'.
Buffy asks that they look for him, to which Quentin says 'they'll try'. He hangs up the phone and turns to address
a board-type meeting, saying "The girl knows nothing, and we need to find Rupert Giles, as soon as possible."
***


I'm a little confused now as to Giles' current status with the Council. My previous understanding was that Giles
was reinstated as Watcher (back pay and all) at Buffy's insistence in Checkpoint. Did Giles leave the
Council since that time, or did the Council kick him out again? Travers' other words in the above scene strongly
suggest that Giles no longer works for the Council, and I also took note that he still refers to Buffy dismissively
as 'the girl', not 'Ms. Summers' or some other respectful appellation. He also says that they will look for Giles,
but seems to display little real interest in doing so to Buffy. (Ya know, if I was feeling peckish, this could be
reason enough to blow him up, but that wouldn't be fair to the other Watchers, so I'll let it slide.)

I tend to think that Giles may have left the council after Buffy's 'death' at the end of S5, whether officially or just
in simple practical terms. I mean, 'his' Slayer is dead, he doesn't really respect the Council anymore, so why stay
with them? To Travers, then, Giles is an 'ex-employee', and to a man like Traveers, an ex-employee is de facto a
failure, and someone who clearly belongs to a 'who needs 'im?' category. Buffy may just be assuming
that Giles still works with the Council, or has contact on a regular basis. Travers must secretly still consider Giles
to be potentially useful, though, since he does direct the Council to locate Giles as soon as possible. (See my
above comments about typical Sunnydale/Buffyverse authority figures re: being disingenuous).


*** Spike sits in a darkened room, still tied to [the] chair. He is shaking, going through a sort of 'withdrawal'
from human blood. (...) Outside of the bedroom, Buffy tells Willow that Spike isn't doing very well and they need
to get him some blood. Willow asks if they should kill Anya. Buffy thinks for a moment, then says no, they need
to wean him off human blood. Willow offers to go and get some animal blood, if only to get out of the house and
away from Xander's 'tool talk' [regarding] proper tool maintenance. Willow then asks Buffy how she's doing in
there. Buffy answers Spike is not doing well. Willow says she meant how Buffy is doing in there. Buffy
simply says she's doing ok. ***


The withdrawal metaphor gets used again here, and I suppose that will generate some familiar arguments pro or
con, after comparing it to Willow's magic = drug metphors from the previous season. Speaking for myself, I was
one of those that didn't see a big problem with it in Willow's case, so I don't see a problem with it in Spike's
case. I think it is appropriate for mirroring purposes, since Willow (ab)used magic to gain a sense of personal
power and worth, and Spike has historically done the same with blood and violence. Getting human blood for a
vamp is like Thai stick for weed-heads, right?

The joke about killing Anya was funny (they used it in the preview, after all) but seemed just a mite odd
to me and a bit forced-- like the writer was going for it just solely for the pure sake of the joke. Would Willow
actually say this, given her recent history as a bad-ass wicca and potential world destroyer? Or was it a
(backfiring) attempt by her to convey to Buffy that she is a participating member of the 'maybe we really oughta
dust him this time' crowd, but is afraid to say it out loud to her friend, and so plants the reminder (via the joke)
that Buffy was willing to kill Anya not too long ago.

Buffy's reluctance to be 'killing' anything that isn't overtly attacking them at the moment makes more
sense near the end of the ep, where a critical revelation takes place, but until then, her actions do seem slightly
indecisive.

New scene:

*** Andrew and Warren stand over something, [and there is] a knife in Andrew's hand. Warren tells him to
"cut her deep, cut her quick, it'll be over with before you know it". "What if she squeals?", Andrew asks as the
camera pans down to show the victim, [which is] a small pig. "Babe 2, a Pig in the City was really
overrated", Andrew says, trying to convince himself he can kill the pig, as Warren tries to pump him up, saying
he is Conan-like, he is Andrew, it's kill or be killed!" (...)

[Andrew tries and fails, miserably] "That's the worst attempted pig slaughtering I've ever seen." [says the
FE/Warren]. Andrew says he's not very good at stabbing, and wonders if there's some other way they can get
blood. ***


One minor note, but it does change the meaning of the scene, so it's worth mentioning. Leoff got one thing
wrong here, which is that Andrew states that "Babe 2 was really Underrated", not over. The disparity in
outlook between demon and human is pretty evident here, in that the FE sets up Andrew with the 'simple' task
of killing a lower animal instead of a human, but is baffled by the fact that the human has more trouble killing the
animal than another human. Is Andrew a vegetarian? I don't recall, but it's a moot point anyway. If you're evil
enough to stab a 'friend' to death, what's the big deal with a pig, even an impossibly cute little Babe-like one?
This is one case (so far the only one) where I agree with the FE.


*** "Number 87" says the butcher at his butcher shop. That's Andrew's number, and the boy goes to
nervously give his order: "I'd like 12 pork chops, 2 pounds of sausage, 8quartsofpigsblood, 3 steaks, a halibut,
and some toothpaste...". The Butcher looks confused for a moment, then informs Andrew they don't sell
toothpaste. (...) Moments later, Andrew hands the butcher money and takes a full to the brim paper bag in his
arms. Just as he turns to leave, he bumps into Willow. The bag falls and the packets of pigs blood spill out.
Andrew looks at her in horror, and Willow looks at him in shock. ***


All long-term BtVS viewers know that ME regularly drops movie refs into their scripts, and this was one of the
more clever ones, alluding to Summer of '42', and that famous scene where one of the teenage boys tries
to go into a drugstore and be very casual about buying a box of condoms. It's blood/ sugar/ sex/ magic
time as we connect animal flesh and blood with toothpaste, and ice cream and condoms. (And of course in a
prior episode, Buffy has sex with a teenager, although that may very well be stretching the ref a mite). Obscure
meanings aside, I did like the more obvious parallels, with the protagonist of '42 seeking out sex and love while
trying to do the responsible thing and utilize birth control,and Andrew seeking out a way to avoid the
responsibility of being directly responsible for killing someone or something.


[Andrew runs out of the shop, and Willow chases him]. Andrew stops around the corner, [saying] "Don't kill
me!" Willow says she's not gonna kill him. [Andrew tries to frighten off Willow, but naturally it's a very lame
attempt]. "Shut your mouth..." says Willow as she shoves the geek into the wall. Willow then gets up in
Andrew's face, saying she is a very powerful "She-Witch" "I am Willow... I am death. If you dare defy me, I shall
call down my fury, wreak fresh vengeance, and make your worst fears come through. OK?" ***

Willow is back to being geeky here, and like the scene where she suggests killing Anya, this seems funny but off.
Again I let it go, thinking perhaps it was because of her guilt over having nearly killed Andrew when he didn't
directly kill Tara, but it still struck me as having her regress too far into her previous geeky incarnation.


*** Bursting in the front door of the Summers home, Willow forcibly presents Andrew to Xander, Dawn, and
Anya. Xander rolls his eyes, saying this can't be good. He asks Andrew what he's doing back in town, but
Andrew is defiant-- "You'll get nothing outta me, carpenter." Xander says "we'll see..."

Upstairs in a bedroom (...), Anya strips off the leather coat as Andrew yells to be careful, it's expensive. She
grinds it under her foot just to spite him as Xander ties Andrew to a chair, [in the] same manner as Spike is
bound. Xander then threatens Andrew, trying to act like he's an interrogator, rough but... not really. Xander asks
him what he was doing with all the blood. [Andrew replies that] "I fell in love with a beautiful vampire girl down
in Mexico and now we're trying to make a go of it on the straight and narrow and put our lives back together
here in Sunnydale." Anya then gets up in Andrew's face, saying this isn't a game. She is pissed, and backhands
Andrew, to Xanders surprise. Xander asks Anya if they can step outside for a moment, [and] have a talk.

As X/A do their 'interrogation', we cut to Spike and Buffy in the next room over. Buffy holds something before
her in her bedroom. It's a bag of pig's blood, which Spike, in game face, hungrily sucks at. ***


Sme jokes do get better if you don't get them right away and have to work a little for them. I didn't get the
'carpenter' one at first, then eventually realized that Andrew was making a pun on 'copper'. This fits perfectly
with Xander going "I've got a bad feeling about this" and of course the whole good-cop/bad cop routine to
follow. This kind of a sophisticated pun seems beyond what Andrew should be able to come up with on a
moment's notice, and furthermore the timing is wrong, since Xander and Anya didn't start the interrogation yet,
but here the joke really is worth it.

Was the 'vampire girl in Mexico' and 'life back together on the straight and narrow' a ref to Darla and Angel?
Nahhh... didn't think so, I'm reaching.

Seeing Spike sucking at the bag of pigs blood conjured some very disturbing thoughts, and I won't go into them
now or ever. Some things are just too freaky, and leave it to the writers to position this scene across from the
humorous ones with Andrew. I've gotta hand it to Buffy-- if she can watch Spike do that, mere vomiting and
diarrhea should be no problem to deal with.

It's interesting that Xander and Anya seem to be working together just as well as when they were an official
couple. The male/female reversal theme continues with Xander being the 'good cop' and Anya the 'bad cop'.
Just for the record, I'd be afraid of Anya too, if I was Andrew. I'd be afraid of her if I was me!


( ~ ~ ~ Continued in Part II ~ ~ ~ )



[> And If Life Is Just A Highway, Then The Soul Is Just A Car - Thoughts on *Never Leave Me* (Pt. II) -- OnM, 22:40:18 12/01/02 Sun

( ~ ~ ~ Continued from Part I ~ ~ ~ )




*** Buffy enters [her?] room again and asks Spike if he's better. (...) He says things have been wonky for him
ever since he got back his soul. Buffy then asks him how he got his soul back. (...) He tells her that he went
across the world to make a deal with a demon, with a price (the trials). He then says it was tough, but he's [since]
found other things [that are] worse. Buffy asks what he means. [He replies] "Meaning I've come to redefine the
terms pain and suffering ever since I fell in love with you." Buffy looks at him in shock, wondering how he could
say that, but he says he just killed a bunch of people, being polite isn't really important anymore. She now thinks
she knows what it's about, him feeling sorry for himself. [Spike continues], "I'm feeling honest with myself. You
used me. You told me that of course. I never understood it, not until now. You hated yourself, and you took it
out on me."

"You figured that out just now?" Buffy asks.

"The soul's not about moonbeams and pennywhistles, love. It's about self loathing. I get it. I had to travel around
the world, but I get it now. I understand you now-- I understand the violence inside."

"William the Bloody now has insight into violence?"

"As bad as I was, as evil and as wretched as I was, I never truly hated myself back then. Not like I do now",
Spike says. ***


This is vamp shrink Part II, this time with Spike doing the analysis. The problem is that just as Webs did, Spike
starts with a few inarguable truths and then builds upon them in ways that may be very arguable. Did Buffy treat
him badly because she was projecting her own failings onto him, and trying to blame him for them? Yes, and you
will note that she doesn't deny it here, which represents growth on her part. But going beyond that point is a
slippery slope, and this is where Spike falls short. He sees Buffy as if she were like him, which she is not. He
thinks that because he is in despair over his past violent acts that he is doomed to never rise above that past.
Buffy doesn't think this way, although there were times in the past that she came very close to doing so. Buffy
also realizes that if it were not for her friends and family, she may not have emerged from the darkness. I think
that that realization is one of the primary reasons that she is willing to help Spike now. But, the reaching out
must go in both directions. In Weight of the World Willow was only able to reach Buffy and pull her out
of her catatonic shutdown by making her understand that her failure was not a reality, but only a construct of her
own fears and self-doubts. When Buffy wanted to make the effort to save herself, Willow was there. Spike is
now in his own mental loop of self-loathing and blame, and she recognizes this, because she's been there.

*** "How's your face?" asks Xander as he enters Andrew's room and sets down a glass of water, starts to
untie him. He asks if Andrew's thirsty and offers him the water. Andrew takes it hesitantly and drinks, saying that
Anya's [a] psycho. Xander agrees, saying she's a vengeance demon. (...) [and] starts to tell Andrew about one of
her "Victims", a guy who incurred her wrath, and she made him suffer real slow by first stopping his heart, then
replaced it with darkness, then allowed him to live his life like that, visiting friends and going to work, but empty.
Andrew doesn't quite seem shocked, so Xander adds that she then tore out his intestines, rubbed them in his face,
and took pictures. Now Andrew's frightened. Xander says that the girls are looking for someone to
blame for all the bad things that have been happening. Andrew says he didn't do anything. "You lying son of a
bitch!" says Anya from the other side of the door. She barges in and rushes Andrew, wrestling him to the ground.
Xander drags her off of him, but then she spins and slugs Xander in the face. She then, out of sight of Andrew,
apologizes to a shocked Xander, then turns to rough up Andrew some more.

Buffy hears Andrew's "ow-ow-owwww" from across the hall and excuses herself from Spike's presence. As the
door closes behind her, we see [FE/Spike] behind the door. [The FE] is disappointed in Spike, saying they've got
a problem. ***


Xander goes back into the room to continue his 'good cop' role, and decides to try a new tactic. He tries to
frighten Andrew by pointing out just what kind of punishment Anya is capable of dishing out, using his own
experience as an example. The problem with this approach is that Andrew has never been in a true loving
relationship with anyone, so he has no concept of the pain of lover's betrayals or their consequences. Xander is
on another level, and after he realizes that he is over Andrew's head, he quickly readjusts to a frame of reference
that Andrew can understand. It is interesting that while Andrew tries to identify with Spike, the real similarity is
between Spike and Xander. Both of them are or were in love with a woman who did not or could not return that
love, and suffered because of it in a way that transcends 'mere' physical pain. Xander has gone on to dealing with
his love for Buffy in a productive way, only to fail when he came to his relationship with Anya. (Which he now
seems to be dealing with more productively also). As to Anya, she appears to need a but more practice, but she's
getting there also.

Has anyone else noticed how virtually everyone in the Scooby Gang is starting to move forward, even though the
events around them seem to be getting more dire by the day? This is different than in any of the past years, where
at the end of the season, it was more of a balance-- you went forward a little, you fell back a little-- you won the
battle, but a new, greater battle loomed just ahead. It's still kind of subtle at this point in the current season, but
I can feel it-- it's a different dynamic happening.


*** Buffy pops in to ask if everything's ok with Xander's group. Xander clutches his jaw in pain as Anya
straddles Andrew [and appears ready to hit him]. She looks up [with a] "Yeah, everything's fine." Buffy turns
back towards Spike's room but as she nears the door, she hears him talking to someone within. Then he starts
singing lightly (...). Buffy enters the room cautiously, looking around, and she asks Spike who he's talking to.
Spike acts odd, as if nothing's wrong, saying he was just talking and singing to keep himself company, then he
asks Buffy calmly how she is. ***


While it was pushing the limits of the resolution of my TV set for me to read the writing on the poster on the
back of the door of the bedroom where X/A were doing their 'interrogation', I believe the heading states
"Everything I know about life, I learned from my Dog". And we all know about 'dogs' in the Buffyverse,
don't we? (BTW, if anyone happens to have a copy of the poster or can find one, maybe you can fill the board in
on the part in finer print, OK? Thanks!)


*** Anya has Andrew cornered up against a wall as she threatens him for information

Spike tries to assure Buffy that he's ok, saying that he's probably just hungry, and asks her for more blood. She
turns to the dresser to get more as we see Spike go into game face once again. He snarls and howls, then easily
busts up the chair that he was tied to. Buffy rushes him but he takes her out with one punch, sending her
sprawling into a corner. He turns away from her and charges a wall.

"We needed more blood to activate the seal of Danzathar", says Andrew to Anya just before hands burst through
the wall behind him. Spike punches a large hole in the wall and drags Andrew through, then cranks Andrew's
head back and starts to sink his vamp teeth into the geek.

Andrew screams and struggles but Spike has him overpowered. Buffy gets up from behind Spike, grabs him, and
throws him off of Andrew, sending Spike into a wall and crumpling confused to the ground. Buffy checks
Andrew, seeing if he's ok as Anya and Xander rush in. All three look at Spike, who can only see blurred images
of the four people from his POV, but can also see a smirking [FE/Spike] looking at him from a distance. Buffy
gets up, walks over, and kicks Spike into unconsciousness. ***


So, I was right about the chair. Buffy either underestimated Spike's strength, or more likely just didn't
understand what could happen when Spike gets 'played with'. Andrew didn't get to finish his explanation about
the purpose of the blood, but it doesn't matter, as we will discover in a little while. For a supreme Evil, The First
sure has a bad sense of timing. Or is it possible that the First can only sway someone who is vulnerable to
suggestion in some way? Does this mean Buffy either already has or is developing the ability to ignore attempts
by the First to 'play' her? It could explain why the FE used secondary means to get at Willow, Dawn and (if
Webs was the FE's work) Buffy, while it confronts Spike and Andrew directly? And is this why what Buffy tells
Spike in the last act is so important in the overall scheme of things?


*** Buffy and the others are in the living room, at night. (...) She remembers [Spike] talking about a song in
the cellar from before also, and says that when he heard it he 'became another person'. Xander gets the idea that
it's a 'trigger', a brainwash[ing] term. He explains that's how the military makes 'sleeper agents', to get them to
attack or do something when they are triggered to do so. Buffy starts taking charge, telling Dawn and Willow to
start looking, doing research on ghosts, spirits, anything that could possibly do something like this. ***


So now the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. There is one big one yet to come inthe ep, but for now, it's
enough that Buffy can take action, and she does. I mentioned back at the beginning of this ramble that the ep was
'about Buffy and Xander', and here is still more evidence to support that. We are used to seeing Willow being
the one to always come through for Buffy with the 'research', but here she was playing a minor role while
Xander was delivering the goods. He still makes with the funny, but he also provides the critical connection at
just the right moment. Nice to know that watching a lot of movies is good for something other than impressing
your friends with trivia! But then, back in Restless, Xander was the one to speak of Apocalypse
Now
followed by Giles realizing that "it's all about the journey".


*** Still nighttime, Principal Wood leaves his office for the day. He walks silently down the corridor,
briefcase in hand, heading out, but hesitates when he passes the basement door. He doubles back and opens it,
heading downstairs. He walks in the basement hallways, knowing exactly where he's going. He opens up the door
to Spike's former lair and enters to find Johnathan's body laying on the seal of Danzathar. He... isn't too surprised
or upset. ***


Nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Please don't make him evil! Noooooo!!!! OK, I didn't say that, but
I was thinking it. Was he seeing or hearing something that we weren't? Or was he alerted to something by a
phone call (from England?) we didn't get to witness earlier? Was it just a feeling? Oh, dear...


*** Buffy walks into her basement and up to Spike, who is now chained to the wall in cuffs. She gets some
water and a towel and starts mopping up the blood from his chin and mouth and he wakes. Spike tells her that he
doesn't remember [the attacks he just made] and he doesn't know why, but Buffy says it's ok, they think they've
got it figured out. (...) She tells [him] about Xander's 'trigger' theory. Spike then looks Buffy square in the eye
and says that she has to kill him. Spike says she doesn't know what he's truly capable of. Buffy says she knows,
but Spike continues, saying she doesn't really know. [He relates some frightening stories aboute his past
vampiric activities].

Buffy says it's not his fault, he didn't do it, but he says it's too late, he's already done it before. He practically
orders her to kill him before he gets out. [Buffy makes no move to do so, and seems reluctant to even consider
the deed.] Spike then asks her if she's ever wondered why she doesn't kill him. She says he's helped save
lives and protect people, he's helped, but Spike says "Don't do that... don't rationalize this into some noble act.
We both know the truth of it. You like [men who] hurt you. You need the pain we cause you, you need the hate.
You need [it] to be the slayer."

(...) but Buffy says that he saw the monster inside and he fought back. He fought everything to be a better man
and he won. She sees it, and she tells him she believes in him. Just then the lights go out. Windows suddenly
burst open! The Robed figures have arrived, crashing in the doors and windows. ***


OK, now this is the big payoff to the big setup in the church when Buffy discovers that Spike has
regained his soul, and wow, does this ever rock. I've loved the slow, gradual buildup this season has paced itself
with so far, and yet managed to retain dramatic tension, and quite frankly I didn't expect a resolution of this issue
this early on, but they went and did it, and I say yay!

It appears that Cassie's predictions have come true, but I didn't expect them to happen both essentially at once.
Cassie told Spike that "Someday, she'll tell you", and told Buffy that "You will make a difference". Wile it is
possible and even likely that ME will 'play with us' some more by making events in the spring seem to echo
Cassie's prophecies again, I think that this isn't a 'false' one or a red herring. Spike is in despair, even sincerely
wants Buffy to kill him. She refuses and he is angry, accuses her of not understanding the depths of his evil, what
he is capable of. She denies that she doesn't understand, and then goes beyond that to do what Spike clearly has
no expectation of-- she tells him that she believes in him. The look on his face is one of stunned
disbelief. He barely has time to wrap his mind and soul around this admission before the FE's harbingers make
their move, but they may not be aware that it may be too late. While we will have to wait and see, I think this
statement by Buffy will be the equivalent to the scarf that Riley held on to when the Initiative turned against him.
The scarf represented Buffy, and Riley trusted Buffy above and beyond anything or anyone else.

In The Gift, Spike tells Buffy that he "always expected to go down fighting", but he didn't care because
"I know I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man". Spike's long battles with himself have brought him back
and around to a similar moment here. The good man who was infected with the demon parasite has just gotten
another shot of Buffy antibiotic, and I strongly suspect that it will work as it did in The Gift.

There are certainly numerous religious/spiritual metaphors in play here also, but I won't go into them now since I
have covered this ground before in previous posts and essays, some earlier this past week. The short version is
that my old 'Buffy = Kwisatz Haderach' theory got another great big boost in this ep, and not just because the
phrase "The Sleeper must Awaken!" was used repeatedly in Frank herbert's Dune novel.

Finally, I was never more proud of our heroine when she tells Spike that "I don't hate like that. Not you. Not
myself. Not anymore.

Wow. Not anymore. So few words for such a major, major self-revelation. Guess size does
matter, huh?


*** In the light of his headlights, Principal Wood digs a hole calmly, almost without care. He grabs
Johnathan's body and pulls it in, then begins to bury it in the night air. ***


I'd have been thinking 'Nnoooooooooooooo!!! again, except that I didn't get to see this scene. My local
UPN affiliate once again seemed to think it was perfectly all-righty to excise 15 to 30 seconds out of the show to
stick a couple more commercials in, and so cut this part out. If it wasn't for Leoff and you guys, I wouldn't have
even known about it. My tape takes up where or shortly after...


*** The big battle starts, with Willow taking on one figure (and getting knocked out) and Dawn the other. It
is here where we see Dawn is quite the little fighter! Buffy joins another one in battle, coming from downstairs.
She easily handles one with some sort of staff weapon, but then another attacks her from behind. The figure then
charges upstairs and Buffy pursues.

Dawn fights with the robed figure, kicking, side stepping, and eventually throwing him over her head from her
back and into a wall. ***


And here I was thinking "Yeeesssssssssss!!!"

This is what happens when the Buffster has faith in you, not to mention when you also have Faith in you,
additionally not to mention when you have faith in yourself. Anyone notice that when the battle started,
the word "DAWN!!" wasn't the first thing out of Buffy's mouth? How times have changed. Dawn's taking care
of herself... must be Tuesday!

*** The two robed dudes fall dead as Xander comes upstairs to help. Buffy [ finally! ] says "Dawn!"
But Xander says she's ok, then he wonders if that's it, he thought he saw more of them. Buffy wonders about
Spike and they both race out... and down to the basement to find empty chains. Spike is gone.

Buffy then goes over to one of the dead figures and looks at the face. "I know these guys... I've seen them
before. We are being haunted. This isn't some demon. it's all the same thing. Spike's ghosts, the people you guys
saw... from beneath us. It's all the same thing. I know what we're up against: The First. ***


OK, now I really did call this correctly from Ep 1. when I saw ol' Morphy there in the basement of the school
with Spike, and duly proclaimed that indeed Morphy 'twas the First Evil. Just remember that when later on I get
to be completely wrong about other stuff-- I have spoiler-free prediction points ahead! When you've been
Buffyized, this is better than free minutes on a cell phone. ( Or so I've heard-- I don't own one. Dread machines.
)

*** At Watchers Headquarters (...) One of them informs [Quentin] that they've lost contact with various
parts of the world and that they've been hit hard, with casualties reporting. Another says they're crippled, but
Quentin says it's all right, they are strong, and still in control of their fate. He then starts a strong motivational
speech, saying that the First Evil has declared war on their institution, and the first attack was most effective, but
he believes it's time they strike back. He demands confirmations on all remaining operatives worldwide, tactical
alerts, and to begin to move out. They are planning a trip to the Hellmouth. He turns to address those who stand
around him, proudly, strongly saying, "My friends, these are the times that define us. Proverbs 24:6 "For by wise
counsel, you shall wage your war..." Then, the building blows up. ***


Several other posters have eleborated on the meanings (and convenient omissions) of Quentin's inspirational
statement to the other Council members. I really hope that they didn't all get blown up. (After all, CTU had
numerous surviving personell after being bombed by terrorists on 24 this year, so why not the CoW?) In
fact, I hope Quentin survives just so Buffy can extremely save his personal ass later on this season and give him a
healthy dose of reasons why he needs to call her 'Ms. Summers'.

As to the theories why the building that blew up appeared cosmetically different from the one that we saw earlier
in non-exploded form, it could have been a deliberate misdirect, or it could have been that the modelmakers were
drunk or high that day, and missed a few details. Guess we'll see. The last great misdirect like that that I recall
was when Cordy got run through with the rebar, and 'passed out', then the very next shot shows Buffy and
Willow at a funeral. Cordy DEAD!!! Noooooooooooo!! But it was a misdirect. Sneaky bastards-- I think
my heart skipped a beat or three then.


*** Very sinister eyes are seen. (...) They look at something that is being bound with leather straps. [It's]
Spike, [who is] strapped spreadeagle onto some sort of pentacle rigging by robed figures (...). One of the figures
then takes a sharp, nasty looking blade and cuts (...) something on Spike, which makes him groan in pain.
[FE/Spike] talks to Spike, telling him that he's the one who screwed up and couldn't do his job, so now he's the
one who gets to 'do the honors'. [FE/Spike] then morphs into [FE/Buffy], who still smiles [as s/he says], "I have
to admit, I'm glad it worked out this way. I was going to bleed Andrew, but you look better with your shirt off."

[The seal opens]. It is a truly disgusting vampiric image that slowly rises from the Earth, far more hideous than
anything else we've seen. (think the vampire from "Nosferatu"). He growls evilly and raises his hands in the air in
celebration. ***


Nudge nudge, wink wink to the audience of NekkidSpike-o-philes. So, why was the relatively small amount of
blood from Spike able to open the seal and release the uber-vamp, while a whole lot more from Jonathan could
not? I posted earlier on the board this week about this topic, but it's short so I'll repeat it her for those who
missed it. I theorize that the more 'evil' the entity whose blood drips onto the seal, the less blood it takes to open
it. Jonathan, who really wasn't evil anymore when his blood was shed by Andrew, and whose past transgressions
were fairly minor in any event, had little or no effect as to opening the seal. I think that the deal with Andrew
getting the pig's blood was a ruse on the part of the FE to get him back to the seal area, and then use his blood
to open it, not the pigs. The FE even said as much when it was torturing Spike, but Spike's failure an an 'evil
being' put him in the lead for uber-vamp freedom-day duty.

Two great things about this scene. One, the second movie ref* of the ep, which goes to Hellraiser. The
sight of the seal unfolding in that 'mechanical/mystical' manner instantly made me think of HR
and its nasty little puzzle box that opens a doorway to hell and the pain and torture-loving Cenobites that inhabit
that dimension. Second, as I mentioned earlier, there is the Spike/Riley mirror where someone who is in love
with Buffy is taken prisoner by those he formerly 'worked for' and treated badly by them as punishment for being
a 'traitor'. I had mentioned the scarf that Riley held onto to keep him focussed on doing what he thought was
right-- will Buffy's statement that 'I believe in you' be enough to keep Spike focussed on also 'doing the right
thing'? It worked in season 5 after the 'Buffybot' told Spike that what he did 'was real, and I won't forget it'.
Will Spike do the Faith number over the next few eps and finally truly move over to the side of the light?

Stay tuned!

*******

Last thoughts before exiting for the week, and until new eps start up again in January:

The little * in the previous paragraph about movie refs-- other posters have mentioned The Manchurian
Candidate
, so maybe Hellraiser would be the third ref, but MC is only one of many films that
exploited the 'triggered' hidden agent concept. If there are some specifics available to support MC over any of
the others, please clue me and I shall read up. Thanks!

Buffy told Spike that she had 'seen his penance'. OK, I buy that, but which penance? There were many actions
that Spike could have committed that gave Buffy reason not to dust him, to see whatever faint spark within his
demon/human existed that could possibly be fanned into the flame of righteousness. So which one was it? The
deal with her not to destroy the world back in Season 2? The numerous times the 'dog' helped her to reveal
some inner, uncomfortable truth she had tried to hide from herself but needed to confront? His own apparent
inability to kill her, although he had plenty of opportunities? The time he suffered Glory's tortures but didn't
reveal that Dawn was The Key? ( That one's my choice, for what it's worth ).

The willingness to fight by her side in The Gift (The 'make me feel like a man' admission). His breaking
into tears after her death in that episode? (Yeah, I know, she was dead, but maybe her 'ghost' or spirit witnessed
it before she zipped up into 'heaven'.) The scene in After Life where she reveals about returning from
heaven and he seems to understand the enormity of her pain when no one else does? The one before that when he
first sees her alive after her resurrection, and the look on his face says everything?

I dunno, but such divinely debatable mysteries are but one of the endlessly wonderful roadside attractions that
populate the Buffyverse highway, where I can always see Paradise by the dashboard light.


See you in January for another road trip, fellow travelers!


*******


[> [> *** Spoilers *** for BtVS 7.9 (and prior) in the above, of course - All else is unspoiled spec. -- OnM, 22:47:32 12/01/02 Sun


[> [> A few notes re: Wood -- HonorH, 23:38:24 12/01/02 Sun

1) I still don't think it was a coincidence that we went directly from the discussion about sleeper agents to Wood leaving the school--only to be interrupted by *something* making him curious about the basement. Perhaps the FE needed Jonathan's body moved away from the seal to clear the way for a new sacrifice, and as Wood's been sitting on the Hellmouth for a few months now, perhaps it's gotten the hang of influencing him.

2) Notice that in the first Wood scene, with the little delinquents, the shades are casting lines of light and dark across Wood's face--just like they've done with Buffy several times this season. Interesting, no?

[> [> [> Something is buggin me about Wood. -- Rufus, 00:27:31 12/02/02 Mon

Have you noticed that this guy is really clean? The way he dresses his whole look? This is a guy that washes under the fingernails and checks the rear view before leaving the house (just to make sure nothing is out of place)..I think it's mind control cause I don't see that man getting his clothes dirty....and he may as well just chuck that never to be as clean again shirt, cause I can't see him wearing anything soiled. If he does turn out to be evil without the mind control whammy....I'll just have to adjust...;)

[> [> [> [> Re: Something is buggin me about Wood. -- aliera, 05:06:46 12/02/02 Mon

I hadn't noticed that (no surprise)...the thing that strikes me about Wood are the mentions of authority.

Thanks for the review OnM!...saved for later as usual. I always look forward to these. :-)

[> [> [> [> [> Pssst..........he made me kill a tree......<g>.....again....;) -- Rufus, 05:18:58 12/02/02 Mon


[> [> Re: And If Life Is Just A Highway, Then The Soul Is Just A Car -- Wisewoman, 06:41:21 12/02/02 Mon

Ah, my favorite lyric!

I'm so glad you mentioned Cassie's predictions, because I immediately though of them when Buffy told Spike she believed in him. That's exactly the sort of thing I expected, rather than the more predictable, less likely "I love you."

Not sure about Buffy "making a difference," thought. She does that just about every week, but I think Cassie meant something bigger that we haven't seen yet.

;o) <--- significantly winking dub

[> [> Giles & the Watcher's Council -- Solitude1056, 07:18:52 12/02/02 Mon

This has been bugging me - didn't Willow attempt to call Giles when she got home and couldn't see anyone? And wasn't the reason he couldn't come to the phone because "he was in a Watcher's meeting, all day"?

Writers are forgetting their minor notes again.

[> [> [> Or not...... -- Rufus, 07:31:24 12/02/02 Mon

I think that Travers was being all British and dodgey....cause the first thing they said was they needed to find Rupert Giles.....now the Watchers Meeting could have meant anything...like the Watchers attempting to cover up the fact that they were already aware they were under attack and didn't want the gang in Sunnydale to know.

[> [> [> [> I agree with that. (NLM and STSP spoilers) -- Rob, 09:08:11 12/02/02 Mon

That's the same thing I thought when I saw it. They don't know where Giles is, or worse, might even already know he's dead (if he is and they found his body), and as always, they still think they have the power, and so decide to conceal the information from Buffy. I'm sure they were planning on telling her once they all arrived in Sunnydale, but with the First Evil gaining power, I assume they didn't want Buffy to turn into a quivering mess when she found out that Giles is/might be dead...and so felt it best to withhold the information. They need the Slayer to be alert, ready, and focused.

And it makes sense that Buffy would believe Travers' words about not keeping up with Giles. Not only had she been dead for a while, thus leading him to not be a Watcher anymore, but when she came back to life, he left her soon after. In effect, he abandoned his duties as Watcher, because he felt it was what was best for her. But I could see Buffy thinking the Council might take this as failure. Look at how they treated Wesley after the Faith situation.

Had Willow been on the phone, she might have said "But I called recently, and he was in a Council meeting!" but Buffy was on the phone. After getting off, Buffy told Willow that they don't know where he is, not "he doesn't work for them anymore, so they don't know where he is". Of course, either way probably wouldn't have made a difference, since I doubt Travers would have been willing to give an answer.

Rob

[> [> Now that I've had a chance to read up...... -- Rufus, 07:27:38 12/02/02 Mon

I agree with you on your take that Buffy's declaration of Belief in Spike will be the thing that may bring him through the worst that has just happened. He is a failure of a dark warrior, he doesn't feel he deserves to be part of humanity (being he killed so many), and he is so new at having a soul that his despair seems to be overpowering....but the First Evil was majorly pissed that Spike was capable of in the words from the First Evil.....

'RE THE ONE WHO COULDN'T HOLD HIS END OF THE BARGAIN. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO COULDN'T TAKE CARE OF WHAT'S-HIS-NAME. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO HAD TO MAKE BREAKTHROUGHS AND LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT HIMSELF.

I think the fact that Spike has tried to learn anything about himself speaks of who he once was, but also the influence Buffy has had on him to make him desire to find his soul in the first place. As I see Spike as a Shadow figure I found a quote I find describes it best....

When we speak of the anima, we think of a man as an individual, of the anima of a certain being, or the ego is the ego of a human person, and the shadow means the person's inferior side. ML Von Franz

When a vampire is created what happens is that the person's inferior side takes control and things they would normally not consider acting out become the norm. But I also think that Spike has served Buffy's story in that he is her Shadow in that she see's in him a part of herself she fears in that she is every bit as capable of being a monster as he has been. The fact that Spike has gone for a soul and Buffy is now coming to terms with some of her weaknesses isn't a coincidence. Telling Spike she now believes in him is also indicative of her growing belief in herself.

Now to Willow.....you noticed that some of her dialogue regarding Anya, and her later conversation with Andrew seemed a bit forced. Well, it is and I see the reason being that she is trying so hard to be "Willow" and to her being Willow is being the nerdy self-conscious person she once was. With the power she has now, that regression won't work, she is no longer the girl in the jumper in front of a class. Willow is now powerful, but doesn't know how she fits into her friends lives, and she fears their rejection most of all. This causes her to try to be exactly the person they were so accepting of in the past. She doesn't realize that they love Willow, past-present-future, no one can remain exactly the same. Her hardest work will be accepting herself and finding out that power doesn't mean she has to be cruel.

Now a few final comments........Principal Wood is a good guy..he is too damn cute to be bad...;)

Your disturbing thoughts about Buffy feeding Spike the pig's blood.......I'm just not going there as I'm still dealing with my Friendly Giant issues.

As usual anything you write I read, print, and highlight, even if I'm not quick enough to answer.

[> [> I think the penance Buffy was referring to was... (NLM spoilers) -- Rob, 08:50:51 12/02/02 Mon

...what she talked to Spike about earlier in the episode, namely, him having gone to get his soul. That was the ultimate sign that he truly wanted to change, whether it was a good idea or not. That meant a lot to her in how she perceives him. The fact that he would seek out a soul, and put up with all the torment that would result from it, just in order to be a better person, Buffy has come to realize, is important to her. And I think it maddens her that after he has come this far and finally made the commitment to be a good person, that the FE should manipulate him so, and force him to do bloody acts again.

Re: Andrew and the pig's blood. I totally agree with you there. Firstly, if it could have been pig's blood all again, why not do that before offing Jonathan? Secondly, the FE was clear that it was going to do that to Andrew, but thought Spike was a better choice. The pig's blood-getting was definitely a ruse to bring Andrew back to the seal.

Rob

[> I thought the ref to a beautiful 'vampire girl in Mexico' was to Harmony -- alcibiades, 23:16:02 12/01/02 Sun


[> [> Andrew/Harmony--there's a 'ship I could get behind! -- HonorH, 23:39:38 12/01/02 Sun

Better than pairing Andrew with poor Dawnie . . .

[> [> [> Andrew, gay now? -- Rufus, 00:23:57 12/02/02 Mon

Andrew and Harmony....just a little question...isn't Andrew gay now? So unless Harmony somehow starts reminding Andrew of Warren I think any ship would be doomed....:):):):)

[> [> [> [> Can a person have a stable sexual orientation without any practical experience? :-) -- KdS, 05:33:52 12/02/02 Mon


[> [> [> [> [> Ooooo, ow!, ouch!...... -- Rufus, 07:35:10 12/02/02 Mon

I expect that Andrews nether regions are shriveling in response to your attack on his lack of sexual experience....his only excuse must be "How can one think of sex while contemplating building the perfect Death Star?"

[> [> [> [> [> [> And an Eww. -- Arethusa, 08:05:33 12/02/02 Mon

Or for Andrew, contemplating the perfect Death Star is his best sexual experience. ;)

Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- ZachsMind, 13:43:00 12/02/02 Mon

I was reviewing the UPN Bronze VIP Archive. Don't ask me why. I dunno. A thought just occurred to me.. Maybe season six being bad is our fault? Maybe it's not that season six is bad objectively speaking, but that subjectively it's not what the majority of Buffy's audience wanted?

The focus of season six was about young adults coming of age. Contemplating marriage. Paying bills. Making adult decisions regarding sex partners. The horrors of every day life overriding the horrors of vampires & demons which quite frankly were routine compared to what you and I may take for granted in real life. Working retail, for example. How many young people have had to face that? The realization of flipping burgers being *worse* for Buffy than killing bad guys. That there are things worse than being The Chosen One.

Objectively speaking, the stories told in season six are well crafted, and quite striking. However, they were not necessarily what the audience wanted to see. Maybe they cut too close to the bone for the age demographic of the series? 15-30 or thereabouts? Maybe the reason so many just say season six sucks is because it hit too close to home?

OR it can be argued that Buffy was good from an objective viewpoint of criticism regarding the quality of the work, but that it failed its audience by not providing what the audience wanted. Maybe it got too cerebral and dark and maudlin for the audience's tastes. Maybe it didn't provide what the audience expected, like a chocolate chip cookie company deciding to replace its chocolate chip cookies with more healthy cookies, but not changing the wrapping on the box.

Or maybe you think season six just sucked? That it was poorly written, produced, directed and performed compared to this season or seasons 1-5? What are your thoughts? Which of the above opinions mirrors you or do you have a completely different approach to why season six got wonky reviews from critics & fans alike?

Me? I just loved it. Tabula Rasa. Once More With Feeling. Life Serial. Normal Again. A demon/human wedding congregation where the humans were scarier. Spike holding Boba Fett hostage. Tara telling Willow she was using too much magic. Buffy realizing she was using Spike. Season six is my favorite season. The other seasons were great but six is my favorite. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around why my opinion's in the minority.

Then, my favorite character right now is Dawn, so I'm just stuck in the minority, I wager...

Your thoughts?

[> For a while, I seemed to be Season Six's lone defender here! -- Rob, 14:10:15 12/02/02 Mon

I love Season Six. I think, on the whole, it was brilliant. Any problems I did have with it--at times a seeming lack of focus, drive; sluggishness--did not detract from my love of it, because I realized the artistic necessity. At times, Season Six was a struggle to get through, but to me, it was well worth it and incredibly satisfying...yes, even including the Willow-Junkie arc. There was not one single episode that I did not enjoy, and most of them, I loved.

Rob

[> Always happy to beat a horse (ahem!)... -- Thomas the Skeptic, 14:13:19 12/02/02 Mon

I did'nt hate season six but I did find it painful while I was going through it the first time because characters I loved seemed to be screwing their lives up so badly. A funny thing happened this weekend, though. When I was watching the Buffy marathon on FX on turkeyday I really enjoyed the two episodes from season six and realized that they are much more satisfying in the context of what's happening this year. It reminded me of Joss's comments on the NPR program "Fresh Air" when he said that each season on Buffy is like a chapter in a novel. The first time around, season six was a chapter I did'nt particularly enjoy but now, "re-reading" it, I find it much more fufilling in view of the larger context. Having said all that, I still love season five the best because of all the epic flourishes and sturm and drang of Buffy's "gift". Big emotions, big catharsis!

[> [> I agree re: Season 5. Definitely my favorite. Although the way 7's shaping up, that may replace it. -- Rob, 14:15:50 12/02/02 Mon


[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Apophis, 14:19:36 12/02/02 Mon

I think you make some interesting points, Zach (does anyone else feel weird when addressing someone with the same name?). I thought season 6 was very well done, though I wasn't particularly fond of it at the time. As you said, it did cut a little close to home for me since I was going through some of the same rites of passage. I think the majority of people found it distasteful because it wasn't what they expected or wanted from the series, though it was a necessary step in the story's evolution. It was like chemotherapy; you may not enjoy the experience, but you'll be glad for it later. The season showed some things about the characters that some people perhaps would rather not have known, which allowed the characters to progress. It was a dramatic sweat lodge.
P.S.- I also like Dawn. I can't understand why lots of people don't.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Rook, 14:29:26 12/02/02 Mon

I'm pro season 6, but I think that, besides the ones you mentioned, there are some other factors at work, the main one being that there are a run of really, really bad episodes right in the middle of the season...they work in terms of overall development, but from Smashed through Hell's Bells, there are things wrong or irritating in just about every episode. Not to get into great detail about each thing, but here's a partial list:

- The very unsubtle way they present Magic = drugs storyline.

- "A meat party in my mouth."

-Wig lady.

- "Get out, get out, GET OUT!"

- The Demons going to Xander's wedding/Clem at Buffy's birthday party...the presense of the "cartoonish" demons in the Scoob's "normal" life taxed the willing suspension of disbelief beyond anything the show had tried before, as did The over the top effects in Willow/Amy's Bronze scenes in "Smashed".

- "The Doctor".

- Every word that came out of Mrs. Finn's mouth.

- "Kill, Doris, Kill".

The only real break from the dreck is "Dead Things", which is a pretty good episode. There are good moments in the other episodes, but IMO, not enough to outweigh the outright cheesiness of the rest.

So, while there are great things at the beginning of the season (Excepting the silliness of the Land Shark and kiten poker) and at the end of the season, there's a huge, stinking pile of dung right in the middle of it. And I think it's largely this - some of what are arguably the worst episodes of the entire series, all strung together - that colors people's perceptions of the season as a whole.

[> [> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- grifter, 15:05:44 12/02/02 Mon

While I don´t agree that the episodes in the middle where "the worst episodes of the entire series" ("Go Fish", anyone?), I have to agree that they were mostly sub-par (except for one of my favorite episodes ever - "Dead Things", and even that was hated by the Spuffers)and that that probably contributed a lot to people hating the whole season.

All in all there was just so much to obsessivly hate about the season that some people didn´t see the good parts. The Spuffy-storyline, Willow and Tara seperating, Tara´s death, Xander screwing up the whole season but getting to be the "hero" in the end, Dawn´s whining, etc etc...

I for one really enjoyed the season, although the magic/drug-"metaphor" (can it still be called a metaphor?) I could have done without.
It was the first season that I saw in english first (the german version really sucks), the first time I wasn´t spoiled and the first time I got to read about it on this board, so a lot of my excitement may come from that. I´m enjoying season 7 even more, and I´m just waiting for the "special" episode...they could do, I don´t know, a Musical maybe? Now that would be something fresh and exciting....well exciting, anyway. ;)

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Liv, 14:48:19 12/02/02 Mon

ZachsMind: Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I'm new to the board and missed all the discussions prior to this season. But so far I'm not only thoroughly impressed but sincerely humbled by the depth and intelligence of all your insights. Y'all'r purty dang smart...

Okay, enough ass-kissing... ;)

I was beginning to think everyone else had been watching a completely different channel. I kept coming across reviews and postings blasting it, but all of my Buffy-initiated friends LOVED season 6... actually it's what turned a couple of them onto it since my heartfelt proclamations on behalf of the show simply hadn't been enough.

Personally, I love it when the show darkens up and in order to believably develop the characters and depict a realistic evolution that isn't all sunshine and lollipops, Season 6 was perhaps unpleasant for many, but necessary. (And so far Season 7 has been a brilliant pay-off for those of us who've been along for the ride from the beginning).

Admittedly, I didn't like Dawn at first either, I saw her as an unwelcome Buffyverse intruder but she definitely grew on me, and now I see her as one of the most sympathetic characters. (Not that I'm ready to get behind the idea of a Dawn spinoff any time soon...)

Regardless, I loved everything ME threw at us last season and have the utmost respect for Joss & Co. who would never insult our intelligence by dumbing-down or sugar-coating life in our beloved Buffyverse.

[> Waving from his home as the S6 bandwagon passes by... -- cjl, 14:54:25 12/02/02 Mon

S6 was NOT a bad season. A bad season is when you give up hope entirely and switch to "JAG" on CBS. But S6 hit so many false notes during the year that Buffy-philes were actively wondering if Marti had seized power in a bloody coup and Joss' body was floating somewhere near the starship Serenity. There was some choppy editing/sloppy direction in a number of potentially good episodes (OAFA primarily), and an equal number of head-scratching plot/character developments that virtually nobody liked (including me).

Remember...

Willow, the Magic Crack Addict?

Dawn, the Whiny (sorry, HonorH) Klepto?

Spike, the Demon Egg Merchant/International Arms Dealer?

"Placesetter" Xanya? (One scene and out for most of the season...)

Redshirt Tara?

(OK, the last one was a cheap shot. "Shot." Ooooh. Stop me, please...)

And then there was the attempted rape, and the whole argument about whether it was the best way to send Spike off to get a soul, not to mention whether it was far too "soap opera" and opened the door to a potential "Luke and Laura" Spuffy in S7. (I had a completely different objection to it, regarding the perils of stripping away metaphors in a metaphor-laden series like Buffy. But that's another argument, which I have no wish to restart here...)

And please, let's not mention the "Xander did it" ending to the otherwise amazing OMWF. It would only spoil my dinner...

The stuff I liked about S6? All the depressing, day-to-day, RL distractions piling up around Buffy and the Scoobs. My favorite eps were "Flooded," "Hells Bells," "Life Serial" and especially "Doublemeat Palace," which I thought was extremely well-done. ("Well done?" Oh GOD...) Buffy's despair during that episode was almost palpable. "Two to Go" was amazing, and when Giles walked into the Magic Box, I think I jumped two feet out of my chair. It was even better on reruns...

Grave, on the other hand, fared worse the second time around, separated from TTG. The pacing was awful, and the X/W scene on Kingman's Bluff had zero effect on me. You have to understand--I love those two characters more than anything else on BtVS, and I felt NOTHING. I don't know if it was Joss' dialogue, or Nic and Aly's acting, or the direction, or what--it just didn't work for me.

Sigh.

So, all in all, a very mixed season. I had the same overall prognosis for S4, but for different reasons: in S4, the season long arc bit the big one, but some of the individual episodes were fantastic ("Superstar," "Hush," TYG/WAY, etc.); in S6, the season long arc was ingenious, but the individual episodes failed to live up to their potential.

That's enough dead equine battery for now.

[> [> Perfect analysis S4/S6 -- Rook, 18:28:28 12/02/02 Mon

Funny, I was thinking about this today and came to the same conclusion RE: S4/S6. S4 does have a couple of bad episodes, WWTA most notoriously, but for the most part, the episodes individually are above average or better, but the season as a whole just loses the thread somewhere. S6 OTOH has a great consistent storyline/storylines running through it (Spuffy, Dark!Willow), but just falls flat on the execution in too many episodes.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Darby, 15:14:46 12/02/02 Mon

I kind of see S6 as a valiant failure. I respect the attempt to take the show in a new direction, but don't think that it was executed well - too much text, not enough subtext. And the metaphors that did emerge - magic addiction, regular life as minimum-wage work, sex as camouflage for pain and depression - were often clunky and awkward. And the villains were lame - I know they were supposed to be, but I found myself wincing whenever scenes with them began, unlike previous BBs.

I am one of those who felt that Joss' absence was noticeable in a new level of inconsistency (see cjl above)and a periodic loss of "voice." The show's ability to take and twist classic cliches was sometimes there and sometimes gone, and they began to stumble blindly into some whoppers. Plus, they began to adhere too rigidly to their own cliches, taking a step toward formula.

But a lot of this is academic. I still enjoyed the season, mostly, and am critical only because I hold it to the highest standards. Buffy Season Six was still one of the best shows on television - I just think that it could have been better.

[> Re: I am watching S6 again and loving it. -- Sang, 16:13:34 12/02/02 Mon

The main reason I love BtVS so much is because of S6. S7 is great but it wouldn't be that great if there was no S6. I cannot imagine S7 type of story can build after S2 or S5.

Not like many people, I like the story of magick addiction. For me, magic is some kind of abuse to natural law. And that was pointed out from S1.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Miss Edith, 16:23:31 12/02/02 Mon

I had no problem with the darkness of season 6. I appreciated the pain of living for Buffy being examined and enjoyed episodes such as Flooded, Life Serial, and DoubleMeatPalace. My problem was with the execution.
Spuffy could have been an interesting story but I found it tedious and repetitive. I could predict exactly how the two of them would react to each other each episode and it was just too stagnant.

Willow and her literal magic withdrawel was the worst plot arc the series has ever attempted. Evil Willow at the end was such a disapointment. She only lasted 3 episodes and this was a story build up over some years. I personally felt it was completely trashed in season 6 and I could not stand all the anvils with Willow telling everyone it wasn't really her and she was the magics. "Willow has an addictive personality", "I am so juiced", "I got addicted the way addicts do". "I am the magics" etc. Villians was probably the best out of the evil Willow episodes as the character was still recognisably Willow, rather than a screeching cartoon who I had no emotional investment in.

Plus I lost sympathy in Buffy as I felt Sarah wasn't giving the material her best shot. She was brilliant in the beginning and seemed really interested in getting to grips with depressed Buffy. But I got the impression that she was finding the never ending depression and false epithamies tiresome. E.g in Dead Things she has a breakthrough and cries to Tara about her relationship with Spike. And the next episode has Buffy in the exact state of mind she has been all season with no significant developments to be addressed. I did not find her final epithamy convincing either as she wonders among the flowers.
Also I felt the continuity was off and Marti as show runner could have done a better job there.

Bascially the middle period of episodes, as others mentioned, was where I became impatient and started questioning where the series was going. Up until Smashed I was feeling that series 6 had the potential to be the best season yet. I loved Barganning, Life Serial, the musical, and Tabula Rasa and I enjoyed Flooded so All The Way was the only misfire for me at that time.

[> [> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Miss Edith, 16:26:41 12/02/02 Mon

Afterlife was another episode I loved so darkness really not a problem for me. If I didn't enjoy darkness and angst I would have quit watching Buffy a long time ago.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Matlack73, 17:39:45 12/02/02 Mon

I am long-time reader and this is my first post. I like to start off by saying you guys are great. Reading your posts has added so much to watching the series.

Anyway, maybe S.6. is to Buffy what the "Revolver" album was to the Beatles. They changed with every album, but musically, it was departure from their Mop Top songs like She Loves You and I Want to Hold Your Hand. It must have been a shock to their screaming fans. When I first heard it as a teenager in the 80's, I hated it. I appreciate it much more, now, even though some songs still don't appeal to me (like some episodes of S.6). Not only does it stand on its own, but it laid the ground work for what was to come.

I think the ground work laid in S.6 is a big reason why S.7 has been so emotionally resounding.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Cheryl, 17:42:30 12/02/02 Mon

I'm in the 'liked Season 6' camp. I don't think it was the best season overall, but had some of the best episodes - not only of Buffy but of any series out there. It was a difficult season to watch, but like someone else commented on, necessary for Season 7 to be what it is (awesome, so far IMHO). My least favorite episode was As You Were, mainly because I really, really liked Riley and was really disappointed in what they did to his character, except for his last scene with Buffy, which I thought was excellent.

There hasn't been a series in television history that hasn't had some "flop" episodes - and even the Buffy "flops" are better than most things out there.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Tess, 19:23:50 12/02/02 Mon

I've only watched season six once, just starting my second viewing with FX. But my overall impression of last year was it was the best it had been since season two. I know I'm in the minority on that opinion but that's the way I felt.

With the exception of Angelus, Spike/Dru and Faith, I've never cared for any of the seasonal villians. They just seemed too one dimensional for me to be able to care about anything they wanted. In the end, all I wanted was to see all of them (the master, the mayor, Adam, the iniative, Glory) dead. I never felt that way about the trio. IMO the mark of good villian is one who's goals/conflicts are ones to which you can relate to in a way which makes you almost but not quite want to see them achieve them. The trio appealed to me because I could understand how they felt and what they wanted. Plus the darkness of season six called for the comedic efforts of the trio.

As far as the magic as addiction arc, I didn't have a problem with that. In fact, I would have been disappointed if ME never addressed Willow's striving for greater power without caution. That was a storyline that had been building since she did her first spell back in season 1 or was it 2? I do think they rushed through the Dark Willow phase of it. Part of what made the Angelus storyline so great was the amount of time they let him be evil. With Willow is was almost she's evil...no wait not anymore.

As far as Tara's death, it was tragic but needed to move the plot alone. And why should Tara's character be anymore protected than say Jenny Calender's or Joyce Summers?

The dealing with real life stuff was ok with me also because even back in high school the characters where shown dealing with real life and we all know that after high school all that crap happens.

The Spuffy stuff...well I'm not a shipper but I got to say I really enjoyed those scenes...ten times more than I ever enjoyed the Riley/Buffy scenes and maybe even more than I enjoyed the Angel/Buffy scenes. As far as the sleeping with Spike to help get through a dark time...again that's life.

As far as Spike being the doctor, I didn't have a problem with that. I might have wish I'd seen more of the 'I'm still a vampire and don't have a moral compass' before that show. And the AR scene didn't shock me because their relationship was built on violence and with him being a vampire, it just didn't seem out of character to me. Plus, it all set up the wonderfulness that has been season seven.

I loved season six, one of my favorite seasons but having said that, a bad season of Buffy is better than a good season of just about anything else.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- shadowkat, 19:39:43 12/02/02 Mon

(Last post before I return to NYC tomorrow - tomorrow is going to be spent in airports and planes...ugh.)

Beating a dead horse is right - obviously people liked Season 6 more than they are willing to admit or they wouldn't be:
1. posting about Buffy anymore on the internet.
2. have voted two episodes from Season 6 in the top 14 on FX
3. still watching the show - really if you don't like it you can switch it off.
4. writing long posts analyzing it.

I loved Season 6. Before Season 6, I thought Buffy was a run of the mill fantasy show that I occassionally taped, and made time to watch. But I did not keep the tapes nor did I spend time discussing it on the internet. In Season 6? I went nuts over it. It did things no other tv show I'd ever watched attempted. And I started rewatching the FX reruns and taping them, discovering as I did so that show was like a novel but told in spiral form with a circular as opposed to linear narrative filled with amazing metaphors. I fell completely and irretrievably in love with it. Every character resonated. Season 6 metanarrated on previous seasons, took old characters we'd forgotten like Amy and Jonathan and Warren and even the hidden Tucker and showed them in new ways. It was a brillant commentary on the painful process of shifting from adolescence to the responsibilities of adulthood. It dealt with depression in a take no-prisoners way I'd never seen attempted. It broached the tricky and at times difficult area of abusive relationships and S&M sex. It delved into power addiction and addiction to control. It discussed why as you reach your twenties and thirties teens seem whiney brats that you wish would just shut up - forgetting it was not that long ago that you were one. It made fun of fast food. And it made fun of the military and international arms dealers - how many shows on tv actually have the guts to do that?
It unblinkingly showed what happens when you let yourself be taken over by rage, grief and vengence. IT delved into the horror of guns. It examined real life monsters that you knew as teens and are now sociopaths. It discussed what it is like to almost die and return numb from a grave.

It wasn't perfect, true. But is was far better than anything I'd seen on television in years. I dropped numerous tv shows in Season 6, from West Wing - soap operas to Law and Order, because they no longer held my interest. Their plot lines seemed obvious and over-wrought. Btvs never did. Ats - well I got bored through most of the first part of the season, it wasn't until Sleep Tight that I got interested, so maybe I just like things a bit more noirish?
Buffy continued to surprise me - with its literary references and intricate characterizations and dark subject matter. IF you think there's nothing worth looking at in that season? Go to my website at www.geocities.com/shadowkatbtvs or check Atpo archives - and see what others have said. I wrote 35 essays on this season. I haven't written any on any other season of this show - I took parts of the other seasons and used them to depict what I saw developing in Season 6.

Sure - there was some slip-shod production value here and there and the plot seemed wonky in places. But there was so much else going on, I could ignore that.

My favorities?
Bargaining Part I & II - dealing with complex themes such as death, robots, school as a place for automatons, what is real, and even the idea of rape on numerous levels - natural and physical. It was I thought the best depiction of how I felt about 9/11 on TV and that includes the seemingly endless news marathon and documentaries on the topic.

Afterlife - a beautifully touching depiction of the pain of coming back to life after a traumatic experience

Flooded - being flooded by bills and problems of life

Life Serial - Do we have control over our own reality or does our reality control us

All The Way - date rape, sexual curiousity, and the horrors involved, do you really want to go all the way?

Once More With Feeling - what an episode. Nothing was wrong with it IMHO and I guess I may be in the minority here but I loved the fact that Xander did it. It made perfect sense.
And it metanarrated on previous Xander foibles - Buffy vs. Dracula, The Replacement (where he almost kills himself), Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered. But in this case Xander's innocent mistake - caused major problems. He's no longer a kid, the mistakes he makes now have far more serious consequences. Yeah - he didn't get punished for it but that's part of life too - sometimes the person who committs the crime gets away with it. (And just a show of hands? How many people bought the CD? And how many of you that whined about the ending bought it? Enuff said.)

Tabula Rasa - what would happen if we had a clean slate?
If we didn't remember anything outside of the essentials, ie. language, etc. Would it be better? And who are we at the core? Also how do you handle the adult leaving the building? And what happens if you don't have the burdens and anguish you currently carry? You're free of life?
Voted number 2 out of all the Btvs episodes on FX.

And quietly in the background of each of those episodes?
We saw what happens when you try to control a relationship and the world around you and get addicted to that control.

Smashed - the fall of the house of usher? the fall into the unconsicous self, the dark night of the soul? I've read tons of essays that went nuts over this episode. And it is brillant. Voted number 14. In this epsiode we examine identity, control, letting yourself go wild and the consequences of that.

Wrecked - demonstrates the consequences pretty well, it also discusses sexuality, sexual attraction, addiction to power, normal girl vs. super girl. And begins the arc in earnest on abusive relationships.

Yes I agree Gone, DmP, Hell's Bells, OAFA and AYW lacked something. Poor production value. But? At least two people mentioned DMP and Hell's Bells as their favorites.

Gone - showed again the theme of letting go of being free of responsibility and then went somewhere few shows go?
It considered the female gaze. Spike as the sex object.
The male sex object. On every other show from the Sopranos to Six Feet Under - the woman is the sex object. HEre, it's a guy and women online applauded. While guys groaned.
And I'd never seen anyone explore it so thoroughly before.

Double MEat Palace - they went where no show with advertisers dares to go - showed the ugly reality of job hunting and fast food hell. It's the first real depiction of a horrible food service job I think I've ever seen.
Even Fast Times at Ridgemount High glamorized it more.
And it also explored the pain of feeling stuck with no options in a humorous manner.

Dead Things - whoa, amazing. This episode discussed S&M sex, date rape, master - slave, using sex to escape, self-hate and the dark id and also had a great soundtrack.
Fan base split in half over it. It had scenes that made me cringe and scenes that turned me on. It disturbed me, yet I couldn't look away. And it explored how we can become attracted to pain, to punishing ourselves and others.
Abusive relationships to their core. No other tv show went this far on primetime. None dared.

OAFA - now this episode was fun in its literary correlation.
The Empire of the Sun motif from the JG Ballard novel - regarding how when we grow up and return home we are in fact both older and far away, disconnected. The boredom of being stuck in a house with your nearest and dearest and well people you did NOT invite to the party. Struggling with a boyfriend you are ashamed of. And the fury of being ignored.

As You Were - this I think of as our little parody of arms dealers and the militaries attempts to ferret them out. If you've been following the Iraqi arms thing - I think you might see the humor here. Ironic and dark as it is. An incompetent arms dealer - whose so competent that the slayer he's sleeping with doesn't know he's an arms dealer and the military has to knock up a few bums to get to the truth. Even the military's guns don't really work. And the deadly weapon? No problemo - the slayer kills it in a milosecond. This episode also dealt with the dream life we all covet. The ex-boyfriend returns with the perfect wife, the perfect job, the perfect medical plan - while you're working at a fast food joint, smell of grease and are sleeping with someone you wouldn't be caught out in daylight with (of course he can't go out in daylight - but you see metaphor). Well -executed? Nope. But the idea was wonderful.

Hells Bells - I think I might have liked this better if I hadn't read the entire episode on the internet first but that's hardly ME's fault. It was however a good depiction of a real-life abusive marriage, relationship and the fears of having one. Also great depiction of prejudice and racial conflict in places. Not to mention an interesting Little Mermaid metaphor running throughout.

Normal Again - great episode on surrealism and the desire to retreat from reality completely or perhaps in Buffy's case to reality? The number of well-written essays on this epsiode alone should show it's a contender. Not to mention its references to the Pirandello play Six Characters in Search of an Author - in this episode the characters finally asked the question we've debated numerous times - are we all real or are we just parts of Buffy's head??

I can go on but it's getting late and this is getting long enough. Besides I'm sick of discussing Seeing Red - which has launched more debates than any other episode I've seen on every board. We had a six month debate on the AR scene - heck we are still debating the AR scene. We had a six month debate on the Lesbian cliche. Apparently you guys thought it worthy to discuss - if it was truly terrible? You'd ignore it like an episode of JAG.

To end? I like Entropy. I like parts of Seeing Red which makes me cringe but it was supposed to. I liked parts of Villains, Two to Go and Grave.

All in all? Season 6 IMHO rocked. If it weren't for Season 6? I wouldn't be posting on Buffy or have written any essays...hmmm, maybe that alone is a good reason for hating the season. I blame Season 6 for my Buffyitis addiction.
Dang those writers to hell. If it weren't for them I'd be obsessing about something else.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- shadowkat, 19:40:46 12/02/02 Mon

(Last post before I return to NYC tomorrow - tomorrow is going to be spent in airports and planes...ugh.)

Beating a dead horse is right - obviously people liked Season 6 more than they are willing to admit or they wouldn't be:
1. posting about Buffy anymore on the internet.
2. have voted two episodes from Season 6 in the top 14 on FX
3. still watching the show - really if you don't like it you can switch it off.
4. writing long posts analyzing it.

I loved Season 6. Before Season 6, I thought Buffy was a run of the mill fantasy show that I occassionally taped, and made time to watch. But I did not keep the tapes nor did I spend time discussing it on the internet. In Season 6? I went nuts over it. It did things no other tv show I'd ever watched attempted. And I started rewatching the FX reruns and taping them, discovering as I did so that show was like a novel but told in spiral form with a circular as opposed to linear narrative filled with amazing metaphors. I fell completely and irretrievably in love with it. Every character resonated. Season 6 metanarrated on previous seasons, took old characters we'd forgotten like Amy and Jonathan and Warren and even the hidden Tucker and showed them in new ways. It was a brillant commentary on the painful process of shifting from adolescence to the responsibilities of adulthood. It dealt with depression in a take no-prisoners way I'd never seen attempted. It broached the tricky and at times difficult area of abusive relationships and S&M sex. It delved into power addiction and addiction to control. It discussed why as you reach your twenties and thirties teens seem whiney brats that you wish would just shut up - forgetting it was not that long ago that you were one. It made fun of fast food. And it made fun of the military and international arms dealers - how many shows on tv actually have the guts to do that?
It unblinkingly showed what happens when you let yourself be taken over by rage, grief and vengence. IT delved into the horror of guns. It examined real life monsters that you knew as teens and are now sociopaths. It discussed what it is like to almost die and return numb from a grave.

It wasn't perfect, true. But is was far better than anything I'd seen on television in years. I dropped numerous tv shows in Season 6, from West Wing - soap operas to Law and Order, because they no longer held my interest. Their plot lines seemed obvious and over-wrought. Btvs never did. Ats - well I got bored through most of the first part of the season, it wasn't until Sleep Tight that I got interested, so maybe I just like things a bit more noirish?
Buffy continued to surprise me - with its literary references and intricate characterizations and dark subject matter. IF you think there's nothing worth looking at in that season? Go to my website at www.geocities.com/shadowkatbtvs or check Atpo archives - and see what others have said. I wrote 35 essays on this season. I haven't written any on any other season of this show - I took parts of the other seasons and used them to depict what I saw developing in Season 6.

Sure - there was some slip-shod production value here and there and the plot seemed wonky in places. But there was so much else going on, I could ignore that.

My favorities?
Bargaining Part I & II - dealing with complex themes such as death, robots, school as a place for automatons, what is real, and even the idea of rape on numerous levels - natural and physical. It was I thought the best depiction of how I felt about 9/11 on TV and that includes the seemingly endless news marathon and documentaries on the topic.

Afterlife - a beautifully touching depiction of the pain of coming back to life after a traumatic experience

Flooded - being flooded by bills and problems of life

Life Serial - Do we have control over our own reality or does our reality control us

All The Way - date rape, sexual curiousity, and the horrors involved, do you really want to go all the way?

Once More With Feeling - what an episode. Nothing was wrong with it IMHO and I guess I may be in the minority here but I loved the fact that Xander did it. It made perfect sense.
And it metanarrated on previous Xander foibles - Buffy vs. Dracula, The Replacement (where he almost kills himself), Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered. But in this case Xander's innocent mistake - caused major problems. He's no longer a kid, the mistakes he makes now have far more serious consequences. Yeah - he didn't get punished for it but that's part of life too - sometimes the person who committs the crime gets away with it. (And just a show of hands? How many people bought the CD? And how many of you that whined about the ending bought it? Enuff said.)

Tabula Rasa - what would happen if we had a clean slate?
If we didn't remember anything outside of the essentials, ie. language, etc. Would it be better? And who are we at the core? Also how do you handle the adult leaving the building? And what happens if you don't have the burdens and anguish you currently carry? You're free of life?
Voted number 2 out of all the Btvs episodes on FX.

And quietly in the background of each of those episodes?
We saw what happens when you try to control a relationship and the world around you and get addicted to that control.

Smashed - the fall of the house of usher? the fall into the unconsicous self, the dark night of the soul? I've read tons of essays that went nuts over this episode. And it is brillant. Voted number 14. In this epsiode we examine identity, control, letting yourself go wild and the consequences of that.

Wrecked - demonstrates the consequences pretty well, it also discusses sexuality, sexual attraction, addiction to power, normal girl vs. super girl. And begins the arc in earnest on abusive relationships.

Yes I agree Gone, DmP, Hell's Bells, OAFA and AYW lacked something. Poor production value. But? At least two people mentioned DMP and Hell's Bells as their favorites.

Gone - showed again the theme of letting go of being free of responsibility and then went somewhere few shows go?
It considered the female gaze. Spike as the sex object.
The male sex object. On every other show from the Sopranos to Six Feet Under - the woman is the sex object. HEre, it's a guy and women online applauded. While guys groaned.
And I'd never seen anyone explore it so thoroughly before.

Double MEat Palace - they went where no show with advertisers dares to go - showed the ugly reality of job hunting and fast food hell. It's the first real depiction of a horrible food service job I think I've ever seen.
Even Fast Times at Ridgemount High glamorized it more.
And it also explored the pain of feeling stuck with no options in a humorous manner.

Dead Things - whoa, amazing. This episode discussed S&M sex, date rape, master - slave, using sex to escape, self-hate and the dark id and also had a great soundtrack.
Fan base split in half over it. It had scenes that made me cringe and scenes that turned me on. It disturbed me, yet I couldn't look away. And it explored how we can become attracted to pain, to punishing ourselves and others.
Abusive relationships to their core. No other tv show went this far on primetime. None dared.

OAFA - now this episode was fun in its literary correlation.
The Empire of the Sun motif from the JG Ballard novel - regarding how when we grow up and return home we are in fact both older and far away, disconnected. The boredom of being stuck in a house with your nearest and dearest and well people you did NOT invite to the party. Struggling with a boyfriend you are ashamed of. And the fury of being ignored.

As You Were - this I think of as our little parody of arms dealers and the militaries attempts to ferret them out. If you've been following the Iraqi arms thing - I think you might see the humor here. Ironic and dark as it is. An incompetent arms dealer - whose so competent that the slayer he's sleeping with doesn't know he's an arms dealer and the military has to knock up a few bums to get to the truth. Even the military's guns don't really work. And the deadly weapon? No problemo - the slayer kills it in a milosecond. This episode also dealt with the dream life we all covet. The ex-boyfriend returns with the perfect wife, the perfect job, the perfect medical plan - while you're working at a fast food joint, smell of grease and are sleeping with someone you wouldn't be caught out in daylight with (of course he can't go out in daylight - but you see metaphor). Well -executed? Nope. But the idea was wonderful.

Hells Bells - I think I might have liked this better if I hadn't read the entire episode on the internet first but that's hardly ME's fault. It was however a good depiction of a real-life abusive marriage, relationship and the fears of having one. Also great depiction of prejudice and racial conflict in places. Not to mention an interesting Little Mermaid metaphor running throughout.

Normal Again - great episode on surrealism and the desire to retreat from reality completely or perhaps in Buffy's case to reality? The number of well-written essays on this epsiode alone should show it's a contender. Not to mention its references to the Pirandello play Six Characters in Search of an Author - in this episode the characters finally asked the question we've debated numerous times - are we all real or are we just parts of Buffy's head??

I can go on but it's getting late and this is getting long enough. Besides I'm sick of discussing Seeing Red - which has launched more debates than any other episode I've seen on every board. We had a six month debate on the AR scene - heck we are still debating the AR scene. We had a six month debate on the Lesbian cliche. Apparently you guys thought it worthy to discuss - if it was truly terrible? You'd ignore it like an episode of JAG.

To end? I like Entropy. I like parts of Seeing Red which makes me cringe but it was supposed to. I liked parts of Villains, Two to Go and Grave.

All in all? Season 6 IMHO rocked. If it weren't for Season 6? I wouldn't be posting on Buffy or have written any essays...hmmm, maybe that alone is a good reason for hating the season. I blame Season 6 for my Buffyitis addiction.
Dang those writers to hell. If it weren't for them I'd be obsessing about something else.

[> Re: Beating an undead horse: Request for your overall opinions of buffy S.6. -- Corwin of Amber, 20:42:40 12/02/02 Mon

Don't you love synchronicity? Just saw the first two episodes of season 6 back to back on FX, and started thinking about the season as a whole.
My thoughts aren't quite clear yet, so bear with my incoherent rambling.
Season 6 was mainly about seeing the Scoobies at their very worst. Willow going Darth Rosenberg. Buffy using Spike as a punching bag/sex toy. Xander giving into his fears. Anya going vengeance demon. Spike...nuff said. I think this was done both as a metaphor for young adulthood (looking back, I did the worst things when I was in my early 20's) and to make the Scoobies good qualities look better in contrast. The problem was the execution. For instance, the magic as drug addiction metaphor was done clumsily. What I really hated about it was that it took away some of the impact from the Darth Rosenberg storyline that had been simmering for several seasons, by giving the writers and Willow an out, the "oh, she's on drugs(magic)." excuse.
Looking back, the season seems necessary to set up the great season we seem to be getting now, but it was kind of painful to watch at times.

[> Y'all told me to stop saying season six was poorly executed cause "everyone knows what you think!" -- Rochefort, 20:43:26 12/02/02 Mon

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