[> And here's an on-line petition... -- Rob, 21:58:07 09/06/02 Fri

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/SAVE_FARSCAPE/

[> [> quality versus number -- Reema, 02:05:28 09/07/02 Sat

They're tearing the sets down on Friday. If anything is going to be effective, it'll be faxes/telegrams/snail mail/phone calls. According to Kemper, Browder, and Manning, petitions and email won't get it done. A demonstration of effort is key.

[> I sympathize with your situation, being a Dark Angel Fan. I'll send one in. -- JCC, 06:40:32 09/07/02 Sat

[> How can they do this? I will write today. -- Lilac, 08:20:16 09/07/02 Sat

[> sounds like a hoax -- gds, 09:02:13 09/07/02 Sat

The official web site still says new episodes in January as they announced at the end of their last new episode

http://www.scifi.com/farscape/

http://www.scifi.com/farscape/news/

FARSCAPE INFORMATION UPGRADES




NEW EPISODES of Farscape will return in January of 2003, when SEASON FOUR continues! Until then, starting Friday, Sept. 6, catch back-to-back episodes of STARGATE SG-1 every SCI FI Friday, from 9PM-11PM ET/PT.

[> [> NOT a hoax... -- Rob, 09:07:29 09/07/02 Sat

The episodes airing in January are the rest of the fourth season, which had already finished filming. SciFi is going to air the remainder of the fourth season starting in January--which ends on a cliffhanger. But they will not let them go on for a fifth and sixth season, even though, earlier this year, SciFi had said they would.

This is real.

Rob

[> Re: Farscape cancelled by SciFi! Please help rectify the situation! -- Miss Edith, 12:49:10 09/07/02 Sat

SciFi are extremely unlikely to renew the show. It was expensive to make and they believe sci-fi fans will always be lured to new programing. I believe stargate was renewed for a new series instead. The network actually want to avoid an embarrassing upsurge of support which is why they kept their decision from everyone until the last moment. I believe the sets will be torn down next week. Following that the cost of rebuilding them means the show is done. If we want to save the show we only have a certain amount of time. The cast and crew are very upset. Ben Browder has said they will be "taking a chainsaw to Moya" very soon if something is not done. I would suggest writing to other networks like UPN. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the Sci-Fi channel is particularly interested in selling the rights to the first four seasons. That means other channels will not be keen on investing in the show.
At first I felt physically ill at the cancellation particularly as the the cliffhanger at the end of the season will be left hanging as the corporates didn't have the decency to give the writers prior notice so a finale episode could be filmed. I am now seething with a very controlled rage. Or should that be a blinding rage.

[> [> Blinding rage is fine with me... -- Rob, 14:02:55 09/07/02 Sat

So far, I've sent 6 e-mails (2 to each of the addys) and have left phone messages on one of the numbers. Out of the other two, one would not take voice mail on the weekend, and the other said the mailbox was full (perhaps a good sign?). I am determined to do as much as I possibly can to help in this effort.

I do not understand how the SciFi Channel can betray the viewer's trust in such a way, and especially at the last minute, and then attempt to hide from a backlash. One thing's for certain...If "Farscape" remains cancelled, I refuse to ever watch SciFi again. And I watch A LOT of that channel, including "Stargate." Only a network executive would consider cancelling their #1 show, when its ratings drop to #2. And they only dropped, I might add, in comparison to "Stargate"s ratings, which they just brought in this year.

I hope that a lot of people boycott SciFi after this. I certainly would never want to get involved in one of their programs again, if they would even cancel one of their successful shows out of the blue, which has been named the best sci-fi show by just about all of the major critics, and...I will say it again...is still an enormous ratings hit.

You'd think that the SCIFI CHANNEL would understand how loyal and obsessed sci-fi fans get about their shows.

At the moment, for me...blinding rage would be downplaying the matter enormously.

Rob


Rob

[> [> [> Re: Blinding rage is fine with me... -- Reema, 17:40:20 09/07/02 Sat

You might want to consider, too, that snail mail-- especially handwritten-- has a great deal more weight according to Those Who Would Know.

[> [> [> Re: It's a cruel world -- Miss Edith, 19:36:20 09/07/02 Sat

When Ben Browder said they will be taking a chainsaw to Moya I felt physically ill like someone was taking down a member of my family or something. Living in the UK I am unable to make any phone calls unfortunately. I have sent off some e-mails and am currently writing a letter to be send off on monday. I intend to make it clear how popular the show is abroad. It is in the top 10 of BBC2 ratings. I plan to stress how loyal Farscape fans are and how much they have made off flogging their merchendise to us. I believe about a million viewers watch Farscape in the US and I doubt very much that the Sci Fi channel will want even half that number boycotting the channel. To not give the writers time to conclude the show was the height of disrespect. I am truly astonished that they convinced the writers that they had time to develop their story arc over seasons 4 and 5 and then canceled the show on a cliffhanger. To not give the show the oppurtunity to go out on its own terms is blatent disrespect to the loyal fanbase. No one is going to want to get emotionally ivested in Sci Fi channels programes again after the plug was pulled on Farscape with no warning. Even the creaters were left stunned and near tears. A lot of people will lose their jobs without Farscape as the show did a great deal for Australian industry.
I have considered e-mailing Sci Fi magazines in the UK who have been vocal in their support of the show. Perhaps the editors may be interested in offering support to the campign? Everyone who takes the time to contact the the channel should politely make it very clear that they have no intention of watching Sci Fi channel again if Farscape is cancelled. What frustrates me is that Farscape is still at it's peak. It's critically aclaimed, winning awards and constantly attracting new viewers. If anyone is a recent viewer they should mention that. Farscape owes its success to word of mouth. It is also useful to mention what target demographic you are in.

[> [> [> [> Re: And also -- Miss Edith, 19:49:45 09/07/02 Sat

Don't forget to say Farscape is like a virus and constantly attracts new viewers. I first became hooked because on a Buffy board people were raving about the show. I have made sure to mention that in my e-mails. Not one person I have lent my DVDs too has failed to become hooked. The advertising is not what makes the show, it's the loyal viewers raving about it to others. The network needs to understand how loyal and determined we are. I hope my making the effort to compose a letter from the UK will make an impression. I plan to stress that I speak for the non-internet fans in the UK who will have no idea the show has been cancelled.
US viewers need to keep bombarding the channel with e-mail. We must send letters, postcards, e-mails, snail mail. Overseas fans are advised to contact their local station and make it clear how much they value Farscape. I have already e-mailed the beeb and told them this. US fans can also send in a box of crackers with the tagline "Crackers DO matter-Give Farscape its promised 5th season." We deserve the closure that the 5th season will bring us. Don't give up. WE CAN DO THIS!

[> Farscape...too successful for sci-fi? -- Corwin of Amber, 19:48:43 09/07/02 Sat

I truly cannot comprehend network executives. Here they have a very popular, award winning, series, are making money hand over fist on selling DVD's, action figures, books, you name it. And they cancel it.

The sci-fi channel is dropping anything that made it distinctive in the quest for mainstream popularity. Pretty soon they'll probably change their name to TMC "The Mediocrity Channel" and have two or four hours of wrestling or car crashes every night.

[> [> Re: Farscape...too intelligent for sci-fi perhaps? -- Miss Edith, 19:53:14 09/07/02 Sat

[> Re: Farscape cancelled by SciFi! Please help rectify the situation! -- Miss Edith, 20:55:05 09/07/02 Sat

The UPN network is being contacted by fans urging the network to consider picking up the show. Stress that it is critically aclaimed and wins awards despite of having a small but loyal audience owing to it only being available on cable. Mention the shows demograhics and the amount you spend on merchandise. Stress that fans are converted on Buffy sites. But those who have no access to cable can only listen to the numerous Farscape fans raving about the show.
E-mail feedback@upn.com

[> [> I will definitely do that... -- Rob, 23:49:52 09/07/02 Sat

I'll especially stress the fact that many "Buffy" fans are fans of "Farscape" as well, and the amount of money I've spent on "Farscape" items (books, DVDs, CDs, magazines)...I'd estimate it at about $500, over the past 4 years, at least.

Rob

[> Re: Farscape cancelled? Who cares? The show sucks anyway -- NoName, 08:49:50 09/08/02 Sun

How dare you compare Farscape and Buffy? Farscape, as any sci-fi space-centered Star Trekish dramas in history, sucks big time. So please, yes please, just erase this crappy show from your memories. It does not deserve any consideration.

[> [> Re: A troll by neither/nor name -- Pegleg Pete, 09:22:20 09/08/02 Sun

[> [> [> Technically not a troll since s/he seems to be a Buffy fan, which is what this board is geared to. -- Finn Mac Cool, 10:12:19 09/08/02 Sun

[> [> [> [> A troll is a troll is a troll... -- Rob, 11:03:57 09/08/02 Sun

This is not one of those sites where we feel the need to uplift "Buffy" by blasting other shows.

Do I love "Farscape" as much as "Buffy"?

No.

Do I think "Farscape" is as deep as "Buffy"?

No.

But I still think that on the sheer ingenuity and imagination level, "Farscape" equals "Buffy." NoName, I'm not "daring to compare" the two. Because there is no comparison. They are completely different shows with just about nothing in common.

But if you really think that "Farscape" is a "Star Trek"-type show, you've obviously never seen it, or have only caught moments here or there. The two could not be any more different...almost like "Farscape" and "Buffy," or "Star Trek" and "Buffy" for that matter.

In my opinion, "Buffy" is the best fantasy show in television history, and "Farscape" is the best sci-fi show. It is the only space opera that I would ever say comes close to beating "Star Wars" as my favorite space epic of all time.

So take your negativity elsewhere, because anyone who has no respect for fans of other shows besides "Buffy" (even though "Buffy" still is, and always will be, my favorite show) has no respect from me.

Rob

[> [> I'm not a fan of Farscape, but ... -- verdantheart, 07:00:20 09/09/02 Mon

... I have a great deal of sympathy for those who are. Heaven knows I've mourned the loss of programs with a smaller following than that of Farscape! Good luck to you (fans of Farscape, that is)!

[> [> [> Aw, thanks, vh! -- Rob, 08:05:54 09/09/02 Mon

[> Re: Farscape cancelled by SciFi! Please help rectify the situation! -- SKPE, 14:17:19 09/08/02 Sun

I signed the petition,sent the fax and made the call most of the lines were busy,hope that is a good sign. aintitcoolnews.com is reporting that the sets will come down wendsday so there may not be time for snailmail

[> Another on-line petition and more addresses and links... -- Rob, 16:55:29 09/08/02 Sun

http://www.petitiononline.com/scaper1/petition.html

And some more addresses and people to write to from "Aint It Cool News":

USA Cable Entertainment Company HQ Address

* 1230 Avenue of the Americas
* New York, NY 10020
* Phone: 212-413-5000
* Fax: 212-413-6524

USA SUITS...

* President, SCI-FI Channel: Bonnie Hammer
* President and CEO, USA Cable Entertainment: Michael Jackson
* President, Emerging Networks: Patrick Vien
* President, Entertainment: Angela Mancuso
* President, Advertising Sales: Jeff Lucas
* SVP and General Advertising Sales Manager, SCI-FI Channel: David Safran

Vivendi UNIVERSAL Entertainment Company HQ Address

* 152 W. 57th St.
* New York, NY 10019
* Phone: 212-314-7300
* Fax: 212-314-7309

Front Office SUITS...

* Chairman and CEO: Barry Diller
* President and COO: Ron Meyer
* EVP and CFO: Frederick D. Huntsberry
* Chairman and CEO, Universal Television Group: Michael Jackson
* President, Studios USA Programming: Sarah Timberman
* President, USA Television Production Group: David Kissinger
* COO, USA Entertainment: David Goldhill

Vivendi Universal Company HQ Address

* 42 avenue de Friedland
* 75380 Paris Cedex 08, France
* Phone: 011-33-1-71-71-10-00
* Fax: 011-33-1-71-71-11-79

Home office SUITS...

* Chairman and CEO: Jean-RenÈ Fourtou
* COO: Jean-Bernard Levy
* EVP Marketing Strategy and Customer Relationship: Bruno Delecour
* EVP Public Relations: Catherine Gros

USA Interactive Company HQ Address
*
152 W. 57th St.
* New York, NY 10019
* Phone: 212-314-7300
* Fax: 212-314-7309

More USA SUITS...

* Chairman and CEO: Barry Diller
* Vice Chairman: Victor A. Kaufman
* EVP and CFO: Mr. Dara Khosrowshahi
* SVP Marketing: Sarah H. Beatty
* SVP Strategic Planning: Daniel Marriott
* VP Investor Relations: Roger Clark

Sources:

http://www-2.hoovers.com/co/capsule/7/0,2163,105967,00.html

http://www.vivendiuniversal.com/vu2/en/what_we_do/factsheet_tvfilm.cfm

http://www.usanetworks.com/people/diller.html

http://www.vivendiuniversal.com/vu2/en/who_we_are/bio_diller.cfm

SUIT Titles Definitions...

* CEO: Chief Executive Officer
* COO: Chief Operating Officer
* SVP: Senior Vice President
* EVP: Executive Vice President
* CFO: Chief Financial Officer

And if haven't signed the first petition at http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/SAVE_FARSCAPE/ that is the one to sign first. It already has over 9000 signatures. Keep 'em comin'!

And here are some "SAVE FARSCAPE" websites to visit...

http://www.farscapeworld.com/helpfarscape.shtml

http://farscape.wdsection.com/

http://homepage.mac.com/chryse/Guiding%20Star/Cancelled.html

Word has just come in that the sets are due to be destroyed on WEDNESDAY. So time is very of the essence! If you haven't written or called in yet, please do so!

Rob

[> [> The troops are mobilizing for "Operation: Big Push"...More contact info, addys and phone numbers... -- Rob, 08:12:21 09/09/02 Mon

Barbarella's BIG PUSH letter & Complete Contact Info
Monday, 9 September, 9AM EDT

This email was sent out by Our Fearless Campain Leader, Barbarella, and outlines everything you can and should do to help save Farscape. Or, you can just jump straight to the COMPLETE Contact Info that was sent as an attachment to the email.

Hello my Scaper Lovelies

As most of you know on Friday David Kemper, Ben Browder, and Richard Manning announced there would be no 5th season of Farscape.

Well I believe we can make a difference....

But we must remain intelligent, insightful, make good points, and always remain scapers.

We should do as David, Ben, Richard, and Anthony asked and always remain polite, do not threaten, do not insult. When writing its ok to show your sadness and to even show your anger to a degree but always remain scapers and don't take the low road when addressing the issues. Make good points.

For instance:

Farscape is Sci-Fi's highest rated series to date with the exception of John Edwards and he's not even sci-fi.

According to David Kemper, "Unrealized Reality" received a Nielsen Rating of 1.5. That equates to 1.5 million viewers tuning in to watch that particular episode.

Farscape has a vast and varied intelligent viewing audience

Farscape has won numerous awards for the show and its actors

TV GUIDE calls it "The best science fiction series on TV".... USA Today touts it as "TV's best space series".. and Farscape was named in Newsday "The Year's Best in TV".... The press has hailed Farscape as "The Best Sci-Fi on TV" by TV Guide, "TV's Best Space Series" by USA Today, and "The Year's Best in TV" by Newsday. A TV Guide cover proclaimed Farscape's Claudia Black and Gigi Edgley as two of the "Sexiest Stars in the Universe," and TV Guide Ultimate Cable called Ben Browder one of the "Sexiest Men in the Universe."

Farscape is one of the ONLY original series that sci-fi runs...that's not been run on other channels previously (ex dead zone and sg1 and the outer limits all were run on other networks)

In other words keep your mails and faxes and telegrams and phone messages professional and intelligent and they will listen..

DO NOT send crackers, packages, doodads, toys or anything else.

David Kemper: Remember that furious people are "nuts." Angry, but civil and controlled people are "fans." Networks listen to "fans."

Remember we're dealing with a corporation and they'll blow you off if you send something they consider silly.

I have dealt with both USA and Sci-Fi before personally and have found them to be very hard to communicate with..so make your points clear to them without being insulting Its VERY important that we inundate Sci-Fi and EMTV This coming Monday thru Friday. however we should not stop until we hear something positive from them. The "Big Push" is the most important Remember 09-09-2002 thru 09-13-2002 are THE MOST IMPORTANT dates to flood SCI-FI and EMTV with our support and show them a united front. Keep bodies in the chat room at irc.scifi.com port 6667 #farscape The official Save Farscape Central Room (or the war room as I've been calling it) because sci-fi will be visiting and we need to show we're a force to be reckoned with.

Before I move onto the ideas, I'd like to thank all the scapers who are too numerous to name that helped put all the contact info together and also helped me with the server business and keeping the moral high in the room. Many thanks from the bottom of my heart guys and the cast and crew feel the same way. Every time they come into the chat room to say hi or just look in they are ALWAYS amazed at how we've pulled together and shown our support. Keep up the good work and NEVER SAY DIE!

Now onto the ideas:

1. Hand Written Mail, Faxes, Telegrams, Phone Calls, and Priority Mail (like FedEx and UPS) to SCI-FI and EMTV. The reason I suggest the FedEx and the ups is because it looks like something important and will go to the desk of
Michael Jackson and Bonnie Hammer. DO NOT PUT SAVE FARSCAPE ON THE FRONT it will go right into the trash. Put a company name or something very professional looking.

2. Rally your local area to do the same campaign with letters and hand written petitions from your area

3. Print up Save Farscape flyers with the EMTV info and the SCI-FI info listing Michael Jackson and Bonnie Hammer's names. Place them in your local bookstores, comic shops, coffee shops, game shops (especially if they have
the Farscape game in stock) and place petitions in those shops as well if they'll allow it. Most will not have a problem with you putting a flyer in their windows and getting a petition in their shops. There's also usually a place to place multiple flyers for people to take home (in other words print up reams of paper its cheap and leave em there)

4. Contact your local entertainment media. Newspapers and local broadcast can be helpful

5. If you can travel to NYC or live in NYC picket sci-fi studios for the next week. (Monday thru Friday) Make Save Farscape Banners and try to get the word out about sci-fi canceling the show. Because sci-fi doesn't want it leaked yet. They never intended to tell us until end of the 4th season. So its important to inform the public. The more people that know, the more likely they are to lose viewer ship and have the public come at them full force.

6. Gather together, take contributions do whatever it takes to take out addsin magazines like Variety, E Entertainment Weekly, TV Guide, local papers, online publications, sci-fi magazines everywhere you can get it in print.

7. Target Sci-fi sponsors as well. Dell Computers is one of the more prominent sponsors for the show but sci-fi has many sponsors so target them all and email and bombard them as well

8. Hit up the other networks that might be willing to buy Farscape and run it such as UPN TNT Showtime and other stations...use the same methods mail them and phone them and fax them and telegrams them with your interest in
the show. Many of these networks have shown and interest in the show and thenames and addresses of the proper people to contact are in the contacts.txt file attached to this email.

All the contact info we've been able to gather is included as an attachment in this email so it didn't get longer than it was. [online note: go to contact info]i

Post this email along with all the contact info on your web pages, bboards, groups and everywhere else you can to get the word out on what to do and how best to be heard.

In closing I'd like to say

For those of you who have expressed their thanks, none is necessary I do this and will continue to do this because I love you guys and the scaper community and all the friends I've made among the cast and crew of Farscape.

All of you hold special places in the cast and crews hearts. Every time I talk to them they are constantly amazed by the amount of support that we show for them everyday. They do this show for you guys and your enjoyment and they've enjoyed doing it as much as we enjoy watching it. To all those that volunteered time and effort into finding out contact info and phone numbers I am eternally grateful without you we would not be able to get the ball rolling as fast as we're doing. For those that have persevered thru flooding in the room and listening to me babble on and be a cheerleader for
the movement I love ya guys! A special shout out to JustRed-dammit who helped a great deal with proofing reading and helping me to put everyones contact info together for this email. And special thanks to the cast andcrew for popping in the room to keep our spirits high and keep the momentum going. And lastly Keep your butts in the #farscape room this next week. We need as many bodies as we can get cause sci-fi WILL take notice of theirswitchboards and faxes being tied up all the time as well as the bboard crashing from the posts we've been putting up and come looking. And remember post this email and the contact list to every bboard, group, website and
anything else you can think of and forward it to your friends. NEVER SAY DIE GUYS FARSCAPE LIVES!!!!!

Sincerely
Your Fearless Leader
Barbarella


Complete Contact Info

USA NETWORKS
SCIFI CHANNEL
AUDIENCE SERVICES
1230 AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS F115
NEW YORK, NY 10020-1513

phone #s:
212-413-5000
OR
212-413-5821
OR
212-413-5577

email: programming@scifi.com

online petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/SAVE_FARSCAPE/

Hallmark makes $3.8 billion per year. they help pay for FS.
Hallmark Entertainment
P.O. Box 2116
Radio City Station
New York, NY 10101-2116


Creation Entertainment
1010 N. Central Ave. 4th Floor
Glendale, CA 91202

Phone: (818) 409-0960
Fax: (818) 409-0827


email Entertainment Tonight and beg them to do a story on this and
how many of us are working HARD to fight it!!!
email address for Entertainment Tonight:
et@pde.paramount.com)

EM is part of what cancelled FS, alongside scifi.
EM.TV & Merchandising AG Betastr. 11 D-85774 Unterfhring
Telephone: +49 (0) 89 995 00-0 Fax: +49 (0) 89 995 00-111

more addresses:

The Scifi Channel
Rockefeller Center
PO BOX 331
NY, NY 10185

Angela Mancuso
President of Cable Programming
USA Networks, Inc.
8800 Sunset Blvd
West Hollywood, CA 90069

Mr. Barry Diller
President/CEO
USA Networks, Inc
8800 Sunset Blvd, Fifth Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90069

Mr. Charles Engel
Executive Vice President, Programming
Studios USA
8800 Sunset Blvd. Fifth Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90069


1-212-413-6531 -- SciFi Channel FAX

Bonnie Hammer
Senior Vice President of Programming
c/o The Sci-Fi Channel
USA Networks
1230 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020


Michael Jackson
President of Programming
c/o The Sci-Fi Channel
USA Networks
1230 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020


These guys own Henson
EM.TV & Merchandising AG
Betastr. 11
D-85774 Unterfhring
Telefon: +49 (0) 89 995 00-0
Fax: +49 (0) 89 995 00-111


BBC
PO Box 1922
Glasgow, G2 3WT


BBC phone #:
08700 100 222


Scfi Programming comments and suggestions:
program@www.scifi.com


British Science Fiction Association:
bsfa@enterprise.net


BBC Points Of View
pov@bbc.co.uk


British Scifi channel
http://www.uk.scifi.com/htmlsite/contactus.asp


Vivendi Universal Entertainment
100 Universal City Plaza
Universal City, CA 91608
USA

Telephone #s:
+1 818 777 1000
212-314-7300

Dell advertises for scifi a LOT. contact them about this!
Dell Computer Corporation
One Dell Way
Round Rock, Texas 78682
USA

TV Guide:
www.tvguide.com/about/contact.asp
Multichannel News
245 West 17th Street 3rd floor
New York, NY, 10011

tel- 212-645-0067

The Associated Press:
David Bauer or Bruce DeSilva
The Associated Press National Desk
50 Rockerfeller Plaza
New York, New York 10020


email address for either person:
Info@AP.org


Letters Department
TV Guide
Radnor, PA 19088


Parade Magazine
Walter Scott
Box 5001
Grand Central Station
New York, NY 10164-5001

Us Weekly Letters
1290 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10104-0291


fax: 212-767-8214

Entertainment Weekly
1675 Broadway New York
NY 10019


email: letters@ew.com

People Time & Life Building
Rockefeller Center
New York, NY 10020
fax: 212-522-0794

email: editor@people.com


New York Times:
letters@nytimes.com

Maureen Dowd
(LA Times journalist & Farscape fan)
LA Times:
letters@latimes.com

Chicago Sun Times:
Robert Feder, Reporter of the entertainment section:)
feder@suntimes.com

Chicago Tribune:
Tim Bannon is the editor of the Tempo/Entertainment section. His
email addy:
TBannon@tribune.com

A Johnson of the Chicago Tribune
AXJohnson@tribune.com

Chicago Tribune:
435 N. Michigan Ave
Chicago, Il 60611


fax#: 312-222-2598

Boston Globe:
b_mccabe@globe.com

USA Today:
editor@usatoday.com

Letters to the Editor
The Washington Post
1150 15th St, NW
Washington, DC 20071

Networks to Mail with your interest in them carrying Farscape

UPN

Dean Valentine (CEO)
Adam Ware (COO)
Todd Lituchy (Sr VP, Sched & Aquisitions)
Danielle Greene (Alternative Development, Current programming)

United Paramount Network
11800 Wilshire Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90025

Phone: 310-575-7000
fax: 310 575 7210
E-mail: feedback@upn.com

SHOWTIME

Jerry Offsay (Pres., programming)
Mathew Duda (VP, aquisitions and planning)
Gary Levine (VP., Original programming)

Showtime Networks
10880 Wilshire Blvd. Stes. 1500 & 1600
Los Angeles, CA 90024

phone 310-234-5200
fax: 310-234-5393

and on the East Coast

Mathew C Blank (Chairman, CEO)
Frank Pintauro (Sr VP, Creative Director, Original Programming)

Showtime Networks
1633 Broadway
New York, NY 10019
phone: 212-708-1600
Fax: 212-708-1217

TNT

Robert DeBitetto (pres, original programming)
Julie Wietz (exec vp. original programming)

Turner Network Television
1888 Century Park East, 14th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067
phone: 310-551-6300

or

Turner Network Television
1050 Techwood Dr. NW
Atlanta, GA 30318
phone - 404/827-2599
phone - 404-827-1647
fax - 404/827-1700
fax - 404 - 885 - 4318

Scifi Mags to mail to about the cancelation

Cinefantastique-Anna Kaplan is a big supporter
Cinefantastique
7240 W. Roosevelt Rd.,
Forest Park, IL 60130
(708) 366 5566

Cult Times, TV Zone, and Starburst- Ian Spelling is our guy here
Cult Times Visual Imagination Limited. PMB #469
PO Box 6061
Sherman Oaks, CA 91413
Phone 1 818 980 1727
Fax 1 818 980 6061

Dreamwatch-Joe Nazzaro is our article writer
Dreamwatch Magazine
Titan Magazines
144 Southark ST
London SE1 oUP
LA Office-
Alberto Ortega
PO Box 48438
Los Angeles, CA 90048

SFX
Future Publishing
30 Monmouth Street
Bath
BA1 2BW
Tel : (01225) 442244
Fax: (01225) 732248
Jayne Dearsley - Ben Browder interview
Jayne.dearsley@futurenet.co.uk

Official Farscape Magazine-these people will all be out of jobs if this happens!
Farscape Magazine
Titan Magazines
144 Southwark Street
London, SE OUP, UK
farscape@titanemail.com-this is the editorial contact and letters can get published

Sci-Fi The Official Magazine of the Sci-Fi channel
1230 Avenue of the Americas,
New York, NY 10020
(212)413-5000
Starlog Group, Inc.,
475 Park Avenue South,
New York, NY 10016

E-mails:
scifiweekly@scifi.com
program@www.scifi.com
feedback@www.scifi.com
Tom Vitale (head of programming at Scifi): tvontv@scifi.com
Fax Number: 1-212-413-6531
SciFi Channel viewer comment line: (212) 413-5000. (Ask to leave a message for Farscape on the Viewer Comment Line. May not be available after business hours)
SciFi Channel programming line: (212) 413-5821.
SciFi Channel comments line: (212) 413-5577.
(These two mailboxes fill up very fast, so if they are full please wait 24 hours and call back again!)

Western Union (for online telegrams): www.westernunion.com
Another telegram service: www.sendatelegram.com
Two Web based fax services to fax for free: http://www.tpc.int/sendfax.html
http://www.interpage.net/sub-wwwfax.html

Matt Roush (at TV Guide)
Box 500
Radnom, PA 19088 - 0500

TV Guide at TVGuide.com
http://cheersandjeers@tvguide.com/about/contact.asp and http://www.tvguide.com/about/contact.asp
Letters Department TV Guide
Radnor, PA 19088

People Magazine People.com

Entertainment Weekly www.ew.com/ew/staff/

The Celebrity Cafe www.thecelebritycafe.com/

7 Magazine (Australian Magazine) www.sevenmag.com.au/themag/index.html

@NZone Magazine www.atnzone.com/

Allstylz.com - Urban life in the city (Toronto)
www.allstylz.com/page/main.htm

Entertainment Today www.ent-today.com/

In Style Network - www.instylenetwork.com/index40.shtml

Midwest Today Online www.midtod.com/

New Weekly Magazine - Australian Entertainmment Magazine)
www.community.ninemsn.com.au/newwekkly/

Radio Free Entertainment www.radiofree.com/manifes...its1.shtml

TV Scene Magazine Online www.b-movie.com/tvhome.html

Hollywood Reporter..... www.hollywoodreporter.com/

Entertainment Tonight....... etonline.com/

Robert Bianco, USA Today's TV Critic http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20020909005/tscript.htm
SciFi Talk and Tony Telado: scifitalk@aol.com
IGN at http://filmforce.ign.com/
Cinescape at http://www.Cinescape.com
SFCrowsNest at http://www.computercrowsnest.com/index.html
EOnline e-mail: wanda@eonline.com
Hollywood Reporter at www.hollywoodreporter.com/
Dark Horizons at www.darkhorizons.com
Science Fiction Weekly at: http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/letters.html E-mail: scifiweekly@scifi.com

For UK Folk:
www.bbc.co.uk/messageboards/
www.bbc.co.uk/radio/feedback/index.shtml
www.bbc.co.uk/pov/ <http://www.bbc.co.uk/pov/ (this is for comments on programming, schedules and more)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/feedback
08700 100 222 (24 hours a day)
British Science Fiction Association: bsfa@enterprise.net
British Sci-Fi Channel: http://www.uk.scifi.com/htmlsite/contactus.asp

On-line Petitions:
Save My Show: http://www.savemyshow.com/shows/farscape.htm
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/SAVE_FARSCAPE
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/frellno/petition.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/scaper1/petition.html

Other Save Farscape Pages:
http://www.karlsweb.com/ (some great pictures to use in your letters and postcards!)
http://homepage.mac.com/chryse/Guiding%20Star/Cancelled.html
http://www.farscapeweekly.com/cancelled.htm
http://mysite.freeserve.com/TheFarscapeLoungeRPG/index.jhtml
http://farscape.wdsection.com/
http://scorpius-farscape.tv/master/savefarscape.html
http://www.underhive.com/Bamphalas/savefs.htm
http://66.168.92.67:8080/wormholepostcard02.jpg (a wormhole postcard by Vesh)
_______________________________________

Info taken from http://www.farscapeweekly.com/bigpush.htm

Rob

[> Re: Updated info -- Miss Edith, 10:15:57 09/09/02 Mon

UPN is actively searching for a companion show for Enterprise.
TNT has expressed some interest in Farscape. Following the cancellation of Witchblade they are looking for a new genre show.
Showtime is also interested in Sci Fi shows.
A flood of fan support will show there is a demand for Farscape and those are the networks to concentrate on. Sci Fi is still the priority though. Mention we have over 12,000 signatures on our petition so far.
The Farscape chat rooms are moderated and we are advised to spend time there. Sci Fi need to understand that a boycott will happen. If they cancel their top rated show they will have canceled subscriptions, US viewers phone the channel and tell them this. They will lose more money cancelling Farscape, than the cost of producing a quality show, they must understand that!
Remember this quote from Winston Churchill, "Never give in-never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yeild to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy". Courtesy of John S on the Save Farscape web page.

[> [> Re: Updated info -- Miss Edith, 10:56:27 09/09/02 Mon

Apparently Michael Jackson the head of the Sci Fi network made the decision to cancel Farscape owing to costs, and he is pissed with David Kemper as they wanted to keep their plans quiet until the fourth season had finished airing next year. They wanted to have already dismantled the sets and just spring it on the fans. David is urging us to continue showing our support. He mentioned the episode unaltered reality had I:5 million viewers and "if every one of those people write a letter we might end up filming a ninth season".
Pilot has already been packed in a box, this is serious we need to act really fast. Apparently the fax machine has run out of paper at UPN and the chat room is so full it is getting difficult to get into. We are getting somewhere. Just remember we only have a limited amount of time. Concentrate your efforts on Michael Jackson. If you only send one letter send it to him. Mention nearly all subscribers for his channel do watch Farscape. I know boycotts are not taken seriously but as Farscape is on a cable network people can very easily cancel their subscription and he will lose money if he cancels a quality show because of the cost. When phoning make that clear, and say you will sever any contact you have with the channel.
People will not be interested in getting invested in shows when the network has demonstrared they have no qualms in pulling the plug at any time.

[> [> [> That moron didn't even announce it to the press... -- Rob, 11:33:23 09/09/02 Mon

He wanted it to just air the rest of the episodes in January, and then announce it...when it would be too late to do anything. He is obviously aware that he was playing with fire to begin with, with this decision.

I've heard that there are people in NYC who are going to be picketting the SciFi channel studios all week. I would go too if I didn't have school. Guess I'll just have to keep up with the e-mails and the phone calls.

On a good news front, every phone number I tried says the voice mail is full (good sign I hope)...and it is impossible for me to even get to scifi.com's "Farscape" page, let alone the chat room, which means there must be an enormous amount of people there. There is huge awareness about this now, which Michael Jackson did not want.

So definitely focus your attention on him...but also keep the letters coming to your local press, or the major Entertainment magazines (Entertainment Weekly, TV Guide, People, etc) and the major newspapers. We can do this!

Rob

[> [> [> [> Re: That moron didn't even announce it to the press... -- Sofdog, 12:32:33 09/09/02 Mon

There's a poll at Cinescape online.

http://cinescape.com/0/poll.asp?aff_id=0&action=page&obj_id=270930&this_cat=

[> [> [> [> Re: That moron didn't even announce it to the press... -- Sofdog, 12:33:56 09/09/02 Mon

There's a poll at Cinescape online.

http://cinescape.com/0/poll.asp?aff_id=0&action=page&obj_id=270930&this_cat=

[> [> [> [> [> Re: That moron didn't even announce it to the press... -- skpe, 13:00:57 09/09/02 Mon

The Sci Fi web site has finaly posted the offical notice that they are canciling. Most of the phone numbers I tried are jammed so hope that is good.

[> [> [> Re: Updated info -- Miss Edith, 19:31:27 09/09/02 Mon

Over 12,000 signatures for the petition in a weekend! People are apparently picketing the studios. Phone lines are jammed, and fax paper is running out at Sc Fi. Keep it coming, we can do this. Apparently about $40 million dollars has been spend by the network on a mini-series Tremours because Steven Speilberg slapped his name on it. That is likely to be the explanation for why the channel is suddenly cutting costs. They must have known whether they could afford Farscape when they signed the contract. And X-Files repeats are being planned by the channel I believe? Stress that Farscape is the networks only original programe. Surely they want to be known for quality tv, rather than trashy B-Movies and repeats.
The public need to keep the pressure on as the network did not want the information leeked at this time and are not looking forward to the public coming at them full force. Switchboards and faxes being tied up will make them sit up and notice. Don't give up we are not beaten yet!

[> [> [> [> Re: Updated info -- Miss Edith, 20:27:18 09/09/02 Mon

Great news! Apparently the efforts off the fans mean that the sets will not be destroyed, but dismatled carefully, with pictures taken and put in a box. It's possible that was the plan all along and Ben was just trying to get the fans to realise the urgency of the situation when he talked of the plans for a chainsaw to be taken to Moya. It is very possible he was being sarky and refering to the sets simply being taken apart. He was upset at the time and has since said "I really should have thought of something to say". Nothing has been confirmed yet though. Anyway if true this is excellent news as we may be able to convince other networks to consider picking up the show. We must just keep hope alive.
The network is counting on fans squealing for a few weeks and then being lured by new programing. The new campaign is to call and cancel your subscription and clearly state you are doing so because of the cancelation of Farscape. Then re-order the channel just before the fourth seasons final episodes air and say why. It is essential that it is understood a boycott will happen as it is generally assumed ranting fans are a minority or won't carry a boycott through. We are not all talk and it is essential that is understood. Threats to cancel your subscription are being laughed off and are no longer enough. Carry your threat through. Persistence is needed to show we are more than a knee-jerk response.
Sci Fi network is not accepting any more faxes as they are jammed BTW so we are definately getting to them. Also they are not accepting any more phone calls I have heard. All just the latest news from the chat news, not verifed yet.
Unfortunately death threats are arriving from some sad nutters. One death threat will undermine the efforts of every 1000 fans, so some people need to get ahold of themselves. Oh and we are not being encouraged to send crackers as it just bugs the network apparently. Polite letters telling them how valuable Farscape is to them is what's is required. I am just wondering how long a letter posted in the UK on monday will take to arrive?
People are contributing to planned advertisments and we can e-mail our support to the cast. There is a special e-mail which ensures they will receice the messages of support and be able to read them at their leisure.

[> We're getting some notice! - TVGuide Commentary -- Sofdog, 15:42:32 09/09/02 Mon

[url]http://www.tvguide.com/tv/roush/dispatches/index.asp#A[/url]

From TVGuide Online:

[quote]Moya no more? I couldn't be more disappointed to hear that Sci Fi has opted not to support a fifth season of its signature series, Farscape. Since its unexpected and unheralded arrival in March 1999, this lavishly produced (for basic cable) space adventure quickly established itself as the most irreverent, unpredictable, sexy, intelligent and exciting sci fi show on TV. By comparison, Enterprise is a lumbering dinosaur. Ben Browder and Claudia Black have incredible chemistry, and are surrounded by some of the most vivid and compelling fantasy creatures ever created. Farscape is a joy to watch, and I've always been puzzled about why its rabidly loyal audience hasn't swelled in numbers each season. The show requires attention to be paid ó maybe it's too much TV for some people ó but the rewards are great. (Meanwhile, an inert movie like the latest blah Star Wars epic rakes in the bucks for no discernible reason I can think of, except for genre fans' lemming-like devotion.) For Sci Fi to cite economic reasons for denying fans a final year of Farscape would seem to be at odds with the network's mission as an entertainment brand. This decision is likely to be compared years from now to NBC's short-sighted cancellation of the original Star Trek after a mere three seasons.[/quote]

[> [> Yes!!! Thank you, TV Guide! -- Rob, 21:00:02 09/09/02 Mon

I would say notice from the #1 entertainment mag in the world...is good!

Rob

[> Even if the show doesn't get renewed (God forbid!), here's some good news... -- Rob, 06:07:09 09/10/02 Tue

The Jim Henson Company released a statement on scifi.com:

Henson have posted a statement on Farscape.com regarding the cancellation:

"Farscape is a flagship show for The Jim Henson Company. We are proud of its achievements over the past four years, which have included international critical recognition, three Saturn Awards, and a recent Emmy nomination. As always, your show of support is a true inspiration for our company and has been integral to our success.

"Although SCI FI Channel has chosen not to pick up a fifth season, The Jim Henson Company is in active development on a new Farscape film, an anime project and is currently discussing syndication of this highly acclaimed series. We are eager to move forward with the Farscape creative team in developing new projects that will resonate with our overwhelmingly loyal fan base."

So, even if the show has to end on a cliffhanger, us fans do not need to worry, because the story will be continued in a movie. That is GREAT news! Still, I agree with SMG...A movie, even if it is successful and spawns sequels, is not the same as having an episode every week with these characters.

I am still very upset about the cancellation and am still dedicated to the cause of getting the show renewed. But if that ends up not happening...at least there's a bright light at the end of the tunnel. At least we won't spend forever wondering how the season-ending cliffhanger (which we don't even know yet) will be resolved.

And judging by "Farcape"s previous torturous season-ending cliffhangers (as well as their midseason-break cliffhangers), this upcoming one is gonna be a bitch...

Rob

[> [> Re: Farscape cancellation -- Robert, 12:04:45 09/10/02 Tue

Rob, I feel for you about the cancellation of "Farscape" by the SciFi channel. I felt the same empty feeling in the pit of my stomach when the TNT channel announced the cancellation of "Witchblade". I have a few thoughts about what SciFi has done.

1. I appreciate their official announcement in scifi.com of the cancellation. They gave an excuse for the cancellation that I can believe in and understand. Basically they claim that the ratings numbers didn't justify the increasing costs for the show. They also implied that the show was somewhat speculative, in that they were banking upon a wider audience with higher ratings. If so, then I have to give them credit for taking a chance.

2. I do not appreciate the fact that they were attempting to delay any leak or announcement of the cancellation until after the act was fait accompli (ie. the sets and props were destroyed thus making a restart prohibitively expensive). The executives were weasels for treating the loyal viewing public this way, and deserve every bit of the public wrath they might receive. This was disloyal to the fans who might hope that another channel picks the show up. If the show isn't picked up, I personally expect SciFi to pony up the money for a follow-on movie or mini-series to resolve the cliff-hanger. Even the evil FOX network had the small decency to resolve the cliff-hanger on "Alien Nation" with a follow-on movie.

3. SciFi now has no original tv shows. How did they get to this point? I heard the rumors that they are cutting their programming budget, but why? What about the other specialty cable channels. Both A&E and TNT appear to no longer have any original series, though USA Network has "Monk", "The Dead Zone" and "Blood Crime". This could be a sign of the times--falling advertising revenues--or it could also be general mismanagement on SciFi's part or both. If mismanagement is the case, then I would expect SciFi to have a short lifespan. I am distressed that SciFi has axed all their original material. I've followed SciFi since its beginning in 1990. I should hate to see the channel whither and die.

[> [> [> Another even more annoying aspect of the cancellation was... -- Rob, 13:17:02 09/10/02 Tue

...that SciFi picked up "Stargate" this year, with the intention of only allowing it to air its expected final season. But once it was on, it did better than "Farscape," knocking it to the #2 position (although that's still very high, obviously). They decided they did not have enough money to sustain both shows. Guess what? "Farscape"s cancelled, and "Stargate," which was only going to a one year deal, has been renewed! Grr aargh indeed!

To add insult to injury, SciFi also ignored the latest ratings of "Farscape." The most recent episode, "Unrealized Reality," the summer finale, had its highest ratings to date, at around 1.2 million viewers. I'm sorry, but that should be enough to sustain a basic cable show.

Rob

P.S. I'm so sorry about your "Witchblade" situation as well, and how there doesn't seem to be as big of a public outcry and uprising for your show as there is for mine. If there are any "Save Witchblade" campaigns going or anything of the like, I'd be glad to send in an e-mail or sign a petition or anything. I totally feel for your situation, what with mine.

[> [> [> [> Re: Another even more annoying aspect of the cancellation was... -- Robert, 14:31:49 09/10/02 Tue

>>> " I'm so sorry about your "Witchblade" situation as well, and how there doesn't seem to be as big of a public outcry and uprising for your show as there is for mine. If there are any "Save Witchblade" campaigns going or anything of the like, I'd be glad to send in an e-mail or sign a petition or anything. I totally feel for your situation, what with mine."

Thanks for you support. I think there was no outcry or campaign for Witchblade, because no one can figure out what is going on. If you can believe the TNT news release (which I do not), they cancelled Witchblade because it was successful and they are afraid it won't be next season. How's that for absolute bullshit. Also, by no stretch of the imagination was Witchblade a good a show as Farscape, but I liked it.

At least with SciFi channel, I can believe their stated reasons for cancelling Farscape. I still don't understand why they are so short of money for original programming. However, I do understand that they picked the show they thought would bring in the better ratings (whatever that means).

The ultimate perfidy is that it appears that SciFi channel will drop us with a cliff-hanger. There is no excuse for this. The company executives knew that the season would end with a cliff-hanger. They could even have asked the producer to provide an alternate non-cliff-hanger ending, just in case of cancellation. They apparently didn't do this.

I understand that this is all just business, but I am going to say it again. If a company pays attention only to the bottom line on the quarterly reports, then they will destroy their own future. Quality of service and quality of product is necessary for a continued future, except for Microsoft. They have proven that excellent marketing can overcome crappy service and crappy products. SciFi doesn't have the benefit of such excellent marketing that they can get away with shitting on the viewing public. FOX network did this several times with "Alien Nation", "VR5", and "Above and Beyond". I think they suffered from loss of fan loyalty as a result. If they pull this stunt again with "Firefly", I will permanently remove the FOX channel from my dishnet favorites list and never watch them again.

[> [> [> [> Re: Another even more annoying aspect of the cancellation was... -- Miss Edith, 19:07:58 09/10/02 Tue

Farscape ratings only dropped because it was moved to a bad timeslot right? I don't know much about the US schedule but I believe it wasn't shown by the Sci Fi channnel until 10pm for season 4, hence a ratings drop.

[> [> [> [> [> That's right. It's 9 pm slot was taken by...you guessed it..."Stargate." -- Rob, 19:59:15 09/10/02 Tue

I'm also, btw, annoyed that SciFi is making me turn on "Stargate," which is also a show I enjoy a great deal, although not even close to as much as my other shows (Buffy, Six Feet Under, and Farscape).

Rob

[> Space Plugs Save Farscape Campaign -- Amber, 11:39:56 09/10/02 Tue

Just wanted to let you know that Space:The Imagination Station, which is the Canadian equivalent of the Sci Fi Network did a five minute news story on the cancellation of Farscape and the fan campaign to save it last night. They gave several web addresses out where people can go to get more info on how to help save the show.

The good thing about Space is that they usually air their news segments several times a day, for several days so the cancellation will get lots of publicity from them here in Canada. Also they aired the segment right after Buffy, which, I believe, is their highest rated show right now.

[> [> Also helpful since a lot of "Farscape" fans, statistically, are also "Buffy" fans. -- Rob, 12:03:20 09/10/02 Tue

[> Planned protest outside SciFi Offices tomorrow morning...All info inside here! -- Rob, 18:36:58 09/11/02 Wed

I wish I could go to this, but I can't make it tomorrow. But here's the info if any of you can from farscapeweekly.com...

"Demonstration planned for Thursday, 12 September, in front of SCIFI's Office in NYC. Here's Simon's repackaging of Barbarella's marching orders (Thanks, Simon, for posting this on atf in such a nice format).

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

There will be a picket outside the SciFi channel's NYC studios at 8-9am,Thursday 12th September. Anyone who can make it to NYC for this event, please do so.

It has to be a peaceful, orderly demonstration. Gather outside their doors, or across the street, as long as you're in view of the SciFi channel building. NBC has its stations right next door -- so we're almost guaranteed coverage.

Bring banners and signs and heck even dress as the cast if you feel like it and won't die from the heat of leather on a sunny day

There is an advert going out in that day's issue of Variety magazine, and the head honcho's from SciFi channel's owners will be there too -- so make an impression on them!

You can find posters that you can print out to make banners at: http://farscape.wdsection.com/wanted.html

Don't forget:
* No profanity
* No insults
* Be civil and intelligent
* Be calm
* Be collected

If it looks like SciFi is sending out security, bug out, but be sure to go by the NBC building. And try not to do anything that will get you arrested; it's a worthy cause - but not that worthy :)

How to find them:
The Sci-Fi Channel
USA Networks
1230 Avenue of the Americas, F115
New York, NY 10020-1513

Mapquest link: http://makeashorterlink.com/?K65B260C1

The SciFi channel is sweating right now. Make them sweat more."

[> [> Protest Report #1 -- Sofdog, 07:41:35 09/12/02 Thu

Note: I have career-related reasons for not participating in the picketing myself. Otherwise, I would have rallied like no other:

So, I dragged myself out of bed at 6:40am in order to be at the USA offices at 8am.

I got there at 8:10 to see only three people huddled in front of the Simon & Schuster building.

Their poster boards were in bags or folded over. It seems they were getting to know each other and gathering morale.

As I leaned against the McGraw-Hill marble across the street, jotting down some warm-up notes, a blonde man passed me twice. He kept eyeing me which made me suspicious, but I dismissed it. (About 15 minutes later, he joined the protestors across the street.) It was mighty cold against that marble, in the shade, at 58 degrees with no jacket.

Here is the uneventful breakdown until 8:55am when I left to get to work:

8:17 - 3 more people arrive; protesters continue to huddle and get to know each other

8:20 - they show posters to passersby on request

8:35 - 12 people present

8:37 - begin holding up their signs and handing out flyers (too small to read at distance) to passersby

8:40 - 14 people present; protestors lined up along curb, facing building, holding up signs

8:42 - 2 leave for work; one comes near me and eyes me;
I consider going over and suggesting they use their voices ("We want Far-Scape!" "Bring Back Far-Scape!" or something like that) and stand against the building, facing the street to draw more attention

8:45 - I decide against that

8:49 - 11 people left; holding signs, handing out to passersby

8:55 - I get back on the subway to get to work

Who knows. It was picking up. Maybe later in the day will be more interesting. Perhaps I'll jet up at lunch to check on things.

[> [> [> I'm not there, but it seems like things have been picking up since last time you wrote... -- Rob, 08:50:32 09/12/02 Thu

From farscapeworld.com:

If you live in or around New York:

There's a rally scheduled today. As I type, there are over 20 people there already and they're getting a lot of notice from folks on the street. Go to farscape/wdsection.com for the address and more details. The offices are located at the Rockefeller Center.

If you don't live in New York or otherwise can't make it to the rally:

Also at farscape/wdsection.com Scapers are being asked to flood Tom Vitale's inbox (VP of Scheduling, Programming, and Acquisitions at SciFi) with emails at 12:00n Eastern Time. You can check what time that is in your time zone at the world time server. Email Mr. Vitale at tvontv@scifi.com and remember to be polite! We can not emphasize enough what David Kemper told us at the start of this: Furious, spitting, cussing, insulting, name-calling people with bad writing skills are "nuts" and are ignored, even hurt a cause like this. People showing controlled anger and dismay, people that come off as passionate but level-headed, are "fans" and networks listen to "fans."

Obviously though, if you can't hit "send" at 12:00n Eastern time today, you can hit it any time to send Mr. Vitale a message!

Also for those not living in NYC, it wouldn't hurt to contact your local media about the rally. There are a lot of local reporters still in NYC for the anniversary of 9/11 and it would be great to see cameras out at the rally covering it as well.

___________________________________

Rob

P.S. On more "Good News" front, SciFi has been getting bad press from TVGuide's Matt Roush...AND a story about the "Save Farscape" campaign was on last night's CNN Headline News! That is major!

[> No, it's not saved yet, but here's some REALLY GREAT NEWS... -- Rob, 09:13:04 09/12/02 Thu

The SciFi officials cancelled the order to dismantle the sets for now!!!

That means that they must really be taking these fan protests seriously...and might at least consider renewal!

As of now, the possibility of a new 2 hour TV movie to end the story is very good...but we want a full 5th season, so keep sendin' those e-mails!

Keep yer fingers crossed, Scapers!

Info gotten from http://farscape.wdsection.com/

Rob

Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon. Could it happen? Should it? -- Finn Mac Cool, 15:46:16 09/07/02 Sat

I just watched the movie "Chasing Amy" last night, and an idea popped into my head:

It would be so cool if Keven Smith (creator of "Chasing Amy" and the characters Jay and Silent Bob) were to write a movie/TV script with Joss Whedon.

Both writers have gained a prominent cult status (Whedon obviously for Buffy and Angel, and Kevin Smith for his series of New Jersey movies: "Clerks", "Mallrats", "Chasing Amy", "Dogma", and "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"). Both are fans of comic books and Star Wars. Both are most renowned for brilliant and witty dialouge. Both have taken real world issues (most prominently relationships) and told them through a bizzare medium (fantasy/horror for Whedon, zany humor for Smith). Both have created story universes with many internal interactions (Whedon's Buffyverse vs. Smith's View Askewnaverse). Finally, both writers have a tendency to heap big piles of misery and bad luck on their characters.

After considering all this, I think that a collabaration between Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon would either be a masterpiece, or a horrible wreck of a bad idea. Questions? Comments?

(On an unrelated note, isn't it odd that there isn't a single thread on the board now with a post about Spike? It's a welcome change of pace.)

[> Re: Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon. Could it happen? Should it? -- Slain, 16:07:44 09/07/02 Sat

This does kind of raise something I've been considering for a long time (since I studied it way back in school) - that is, the idea of the Auteur, and how Joss fits into it. An Auteur, in this case, being someone who exercises a large amount of control over a film or TV show, imposing their own vision very strongly, working outside or even against the wishes of studios/networks, and frequently combining writing, directing, producing and acting. Orson Welles is usually given as the great example of an auteur, as he wrote, produced, directed and starred in Citizen Kane. Stanley Kubrick being another example. I personally like auteurs, and I like the idea of auteurs. There's much to be said for the Lars Von Trier and Dogma95 method of film- and TV-making, where it's more of a collabortative effort, but I always feel that it's in the nature of art that uniques comes from one, or at most three or four, individuals.

I consider Kevin Smith to be an auteur, and I also consider Joss to be one, which does make the idea of them collaborating interesting... what happens when you get two auteurs in one room - is there a chain reaction, causing the destruction of the universe? I'm struggling to think of any examples of two or more auteurs working together, except where the project is split up, with one director working on one part of a film, for example.

However Joss (and I think Kevin Smith, whom I know much less of) are not auteurs in the sense that they control the whole film or episode, like Kubrick sometimes did, demanding exactitude to their own vision. Joss always works with or even from his cast, and of course delegates the majority of episodes to other people, sometimes too much (hello Season 6). Smith seems to do the same, using characters created by his cast as much as by himself. But both are auteurs in the sense that the creative energy, what makes their works unique and brilliant, comes from them; if you put the cast of 'Dogma' in a room together without Smith, they wouldn't have produced the same movie. Equally without Joss, Buffy would not have been Buffy, even if someone else had somehow come up with roughly the same idea and assembled the same cast and crew.

So I could in fact see Joss and Kevin Smith working together to great effect, though whether or not the result would be a masterpiece or a strange "Buffy & Silent Riley Strike Back" hybrid, who knows.

[> [> S. Riley......snerk.....:):):) -- Rufus, 18:54:25 09/07/02 Sat

So I could in fact see Joss and Kevin Smith working together to great effect, though whether or not the result would be a masterpiece or a strange "Buffy & Silent Riley Strike Back" hybrid, who knows.

Just as long as Riley is willing to clean my house I don't care if he speaks or not.....;) Wait, can the guy paint?

[> [> [> Re: S. Riley......snerk.....:):):) -- Cheryl, 09:50:15 09/08/02 Sun

Ironically, there's already a connection - Marc Blucas and Eliza Dushku were both in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

And while I'm playing my version of Six Degrees of Separation . . . I just caught part of Bye, Bye Love on tv the other night and Eliza Dushku, Amber Benson, and Lindsay Crouse were all in it. Small world, huh?

[> [> [> [> Re: S. Riley......snerk.....:):):) -- J, 10:54:09 09/09/02 Mon

Ironically, there's already a connection - Marc Blucas and Eliza Dushku were both in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

The connection goes further, since Blucas played Freddie in a completely gratuitous "Scooby-Doo" gag. While I've never heard any remarks about it, that's got to be some kind of Hollywood inside-joke stunt casting, dontcha think?

-J

[> Bickity Bam! The Slayer Bitch kicks some %@#&in Vamp Ass.. -- neaux, 17:00:10 09/07/02 Sat

This would probably be the type of dialogue you would get if Xander spoke Jason Mewes language.

I can just see the scoobie gang solve the case of the Vampire's Balls and then go back to the crib to Smoke a bowl with the Fatman himself, JigggyGiles. Cuz you know that old man got a phatsac of the greenery.


-thank you. I'm here all week.

[> Re: Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon. Could it happen? Should it? -- mundusmundi, 17:13:03 09/07/02 Sat

Just the other day I asked a fellow filmbuff when he thought Joss was going to direct a movie. I've often felt that Whedon shares similarities with P.T. Anderson, at least in terms of having an interest in familial (i.e., father-related) issues, with a particular emphasis on the families we create for ourselves. Anderson, however, really is more of an auteur, whereas Whedon operates within a teamlike framework, albeit an hierarchical one. (As a sidenote, Kevin Smith reportedly hates Anderson's movies, and on IFC he's railed against the whole auteur theory.)

I've never thought of comparing Whedon with Smith, but your examples are interesting. I would only ask that Whedon direct any collaborations. Smith has a good ear but no eye, IMO. Joss has both.

[> Yes, yes it should -- Apophis, 17:26:45 09/07/02 Sat

Both Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon are in my pantheon of the world's greatest creators. I don't know if they'd get along or be creatively compatable, but I think they should work on something together (seeing as how Hollywood always takes my suggestions so seriously...). Both of them tell great stories with engaging characters, both of them are skilled in the supernatural (see Dogma), both are comic book fans (ie- geeks), and both of them like lesbians (though, to be honest, who doesn't?). I'd like to see them work on a movie adaption of a comic book so as to combine 3 of my greatest loves (Smith's movies, BtVS, and comics). And if such an event should lead to the annihilation of the universe, then what better way to go?

[> ohhhhh yeah ! -- Ete, 02:36:04 09/08/02 Sun

Xander : Look at this desk ! I've done it all by myself, and I've got all these pieces left.
Buffy : This is crap.
Xander : Yeah.

[> Re: Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon. Could it happen? Should it? -- Wizardman, 15:13:23 09/08/02 Sun

Hold on, I'm gettin' a vision...
Buffy saving Jay and Silent Bob.
Much hilarity ensues, as Jay spends most of his time panting over the women.
Think about it- Anya in the same room as Jay- with no one to protect him...

[> Re: Kevin Smith and Joss Whedon. Could it happen? Should it? -- vh, 08:25:15 09/09/02 Mon

Even I agree about the change of pace.

Who exactly are "The Scoobies"? -- Rook, 12:00:35 09/08/02 Sun

Ok, it's not as stupid a question as it looks...but I was trying to put some stuff together, and it seems like there's not really a consensus of who is "in the gang" and who is just hanging around. So I was curious if anyone could tell me who of the following are/were considered "scoobies", and if so why they are/aren't.

Buffy
Willow
Xander
Cordelia
Giles
Angel
Jenny
Oz
Spike
Riley
Anya
Dawn
Tara
Faith

[> Re: Who exactly are "The Scoobies"? -- Slain, 12:40:15 09/08/02 Sun

I'm thinking of the times the phrase was used in the show, and mostly it was either used by other characters outside of the gang (Tara, Dawn, Anya), or as an insult (by Spike, I think).

From the list, it's easiest to work it out by excluding people. So:

Dawn is kept away from the Scooby stuff, and she doesn't get involved with the monster fighting (this seems to be changing)
Giles is too old to resemble any of the Scooby Doo cast
Jenny was only a casual participant
Faith mostly only interracted with Buffy
Anya seems to be mostly bored at the meetings, so doesn't seem interested enough to be included
Tara was too new, and didn't seem to consider herself one of the gang
Angel was too mysterious and did try to kill them all
Spike pretty much disliked everyone, and worked from his own motives
Riley was never really involved, and preferred his own methods

Cordy and Oz, for me, count as semi-Scoobies, as they were involved with all Scooby activities, but didn't stay.

So, conclusion? Of course, in Buffy fandom, 'Scooby Gang' usually denotes anybody who's involved with the exposition meetings at that particular time (which means Riley, Tara, Oz and Cordy are often included). But in my opinion, ultimately the Scooby Gang is just Buffy, Willow and Xander, because nobody else really quite fits.

[> Re: Who exactly are "The Scoobies"? -- Wizardman, 15:06:34 09/08/02 Sun

To me, all the above are Scoobies. I think it's like a ''til death do us part' deal. There seems to be a certain set of steps that one goes through to become a Scooby.

To become a Scooby, you must (In no particular order):
Know the truth about the supernatural.
Be saved by the Scoobies.
Help out with the research OR provide information from your own knowledge.
Save a Scooby from certain death- or worse.
Genuinely befriend more than one of them OR get romantically involved with one of them.

All of the above did each of these things, therefore, they are all Scoobies. Of course, some are more favoured and liked than others. And yes, to me, Dawn is a Scooby- she fufilled her last requirement- saving a Scooby from certain death- in Grave when she helped Buffy fight the earth elementals.

[> [> I agree. -- Rob, 15:20:15 09/08/02 Sun

[> My pereption of the 'Scoobys' -- Juliette, 16:35:54 09/08/02 Sun

To me, Buffy Xander, Willow and Giles are the core Scoobies. This is because they were the first to get together to fight supernatural evil in Sunnydale and they are very, very reluctant to admit new members into their litte group, possibly because they have spent so much of their lives as outcasts and want to create an exclusive little club just for them. Or it may just be because they usually have crushes on each other and are jealous of potential rivals. Whatever (!).
So 'The Scoobies' are Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles and anyone else accepted by them at the time. By this rule:
Cordelia - never quite a Scooby. Willow resented her too much and she and Xander broke up fairly early on in S3, causing her to deliberately separate herself fom the group.
Angel - never a Scooby. Xander never trusted him and everyone except Buffy had issues trusting him after the Angelus debacle.
Jenny - never a Scooby. Her on/off relationship with Giles until her death prevented full acceptance.
Oz - a Scooby in S3 and until his departure in S4
Riley - a Scooby at the beginning of S5, until he left. Before that, his loyalty was to the Initiative, not the gang.
Anya - a Scooby in S5 and S6 but just barely, since Willow doesn't like her but is forced to accept her.
Dawn - a Scooby-in-training. But they don't quite trust her and treat her with extremely patronising attitudes, so not a full Scooby.
Spike - never a Scooby. Not acceped by anyone. Except very briefly in The Gift!
Tara - a Scooby after Family until her death.
Faith - never a Scooby. Her whole problem was that they didn't accept or trust her.

[> [> Title should say 'perception.' keyboard probs! -- Juliette, 16:41:07 09/08/02 Sun

[> "Age" has something to do with it... -- Scroll, 17:26:06 09/08/02 Sun

I think age, or at least the going to school-ness of a character, plays a factor in that character being a Scooby. The Scoobies, I think, are best defined as peers who fight/research/help Buffy together. I'd maintain that while Giles is definitely a Scooby in spirit, his age separates him from the rest -- Willow, Xander, et al. see him as Watcher and defacto leader sans Buffy, but not as a peer. Same with Jenny, their teacher. Same with Angel, a vampire (especially after the Angelus arc). Anya, OTOH, is a "peer" despite being 1120 yrs-old (because she still looks/acts like a peer). Anya and Tara are both Scoobies by "Family". Oz and Cordy are still Scoobies despite being elsewhere, though Cordy (and Angel and Wes) might not call themselves by that name. I'd say the AI gang are all Scoobies in spirit, but not in name.

Spike is not a Scooby. He has never been accepted as a peer, only as muscle and pseudo babysitter. The Scoobies are the ones who brought Buffy back from the dead, and Giles, Dawn, and Spike are conspicuously not included in their plans. Dawn becomes a full Scooby in "Grave", once Buffy acknowledges that she is not a child but a peer, someone to be counted. Faith wasn't a Scooby -- nobody ever accepted her as a peer.

Riley is a tough call -- Xander and maybe Willow saw Riley as a peer, but Buffy never did. And I really think Buffy is the deciding factor. After all, the "Scooby Gang" is just another name for the "Slayerettes", those who support the Slayer. Buffy never really let Riley help the Slayer. And for a great deal of Season 4, and again in Season 5, Riley's first loyalty was to the military, not Buffy. In fact, I think Kendra might've been more accepted into the Scooby Gang than Riley (or would've been if she'd lived a bit longer!) Kendra was Buffy's peer in so many ways that Riley never was.

[> I'd say the Scoobies are "Peers" -- Scroll, 17:29:50 09/08/02 Sun

I think age, or at least the going to school-ness of a character, plays a factor in that character being a Scooby. The Scoobies, I think, are best defined as peers who fight/research/help Buffy together. I'd maintain that while Giles is definitely a Scooby in spirit, his age separates him from the rest -- Willow, Xander, et al. see him as Watcher and defacto leader sans Buffy, but not as a peer. Same with Jenny, their teacher. Same with Angel, a vampire (especially after the Angelus arc). Anya, OTOH, is a "peer" despite being 1120 yrs-old (because she still looks/acts like a peer). Anya and Tara are both Scoobies by "Family". Oz and Cordy are still Scoobies despite being elsewhere, though Cordy (and Angel and Wes) might not call themselves by that name. I'd say the AI gang are all Scoobies in spirit, but not in name.

Spike is not a Scooby. He has never been accepted as a peer, only as muscle and pseudo babysitter. The Scoobies are the ones who brought Buffy back from the dead, and Giles, Dawn, and Spike are conspicuously not included in their plans. Dawn becomes a full Scooby in "Grave", once Buffy acknowledges that she is not a child but a peer, someone to be counted. Faith wasn't a Scooby -- nobody ever accepted her as a peer.

Riley is a tough call -- Xander and maybe Willow saw Riley as a peer, but Buffy never did. And I really think Buffy is the deciding factor. After all, the "Scooby Gang" is just another name for the "Slayerettes", those who help the Slayer. Buffy never really let Riley help the Slayer. And for a great deal of Season 4, and again in Season 5, Riley's first loyalty was to the military, not Buffy. In fact, I think Kendra might've been more accepted into the Scooby Gang than Riley (or would've been if she'd lived a bit longer!) Kendra was Buffy's peer in so many ways that Riley never was. The same way Faith could've been a Scooby if trust had been stronger between her and Buffy.

[> [> Oops, kind of a double post. Read second one. -- Scroll, 17:31:43 09/08/02 Sun

[> And since we're on the subject ... -- Amkath, 19:05:20 09/08/02 Sun

I've always wondered - when did they first start calling themselves as "the Scoobies"?

[> [> What's My Line 2 - Your definition or the Show's -- Scroll, 06:06:03 09/09/02 Mon

In "What's My Line" part 2, Xander says to Cordy, "If you wanna be part of the Scooby Gang, you have to make some sacrifices..." Or something to that effect, anyway : ) Which is why, even when she's no longer on 'Buffy', I would consider Cordelia a Scooby. Same with Oz. Being a Scooby isn't really something you stop being. It's kind of a state of being, way of thinking -- even though my above post gives a more narrow definition of "Scooby".

Once Cordelia woke up to the fact that demons were real, and she began helping out with research and fighting, there really wasn't any going back for her. Even after Xander cheats on her and Cordy cuts herself off from the Scoobies, she keeps coming back to them because she can no longer turn a blind eye to all the evil going on. She needs to help.

If you take "Scooby" to mean anyone who helps Buffy fight, then Angel, Giles, Spike, Wesley, Faith, and Riley also become Scoobies. But I think that definition is too broad, really. I still hold to my belief that a "Scooby", as defined by Buffy, Xander, and Willow, is anyone among their fighting forces who are peers. We the viewers may see characters differently (i.e. see Spike as a Scooby), even if this contradicts what B/X/W believe. So I guess "Scooby" depends on who you go by: yourself, or the characters on the show. Personally, I go by what B/X/W define as "Scooby".

[> [> [> Trial by fire: Once a Scooby... -- darrenK, 09:50:53 09/09/02 Mon

I think that Scroll's "What's My Line..." post got it close to right: Scoobydom is a "state of being." It's not a club--it's like being a Knight of the Round Table, it's about accepting a code and a responsibility.

However inept, improvisational and unlikely, the Scoobies are the protectors of the world and--sometimes--our entire universe.

None of them, but Buffy and Giles have made, a formal commitment, but all of them, through contact with the Scoobies made an unstated pledge. For all of them, this crossing over moment came with a permanant acceptance of the supernatural and it's implications in their lives.

Many people, suddenly faced with constant imminent danger and death, would turn away from the friends, lovers that bring this to them, but not the people who become Scoobies. They might be scared but they have the inner courage to keep on.

Very much like the Knights of the Round Table, their time with the Scoobies starts a process of testing, of trial and temptation. And none of the Scoobies, no matter how deep in the inner circle, pass through these trials perfectly.

Some of them, like Faith, fall down.

But, Joss, makes it clear how he feels about the characters that don't stay in the inner circle: they are most certainly Scoobies.

How do I know this? Because their trials and their participation in Buffy's sacred mission that started with their time with the Scoobies, continues even after their association with Buffy (our little blond King Arthur). Each of these semi-Scoobies--Wesley, Cordelia, Riley, Angel, yes, Faith--are called to their life's mission by their time with the Scoobies. They are forever changed and forever measured by the Scooby ideal.

So, by my definition, all of the people originally listed are Scoobies.

Giles is their mentor, their Merlin.
Dawn is their squire, their knight-in-training.

All the rest have equal functions. But all of them are certainly Scoobies.

[> [> [> [> "On second thought, let's not go to Sunnydale. It is a silly place." -- cjl, 10:18:08 09/09/02 Mon

Excellent post, darrenk, and I think you nailed down the essence "Scoobiness" better than I did.

Just got this ridiculous image of the entire cast dancing on the tables of Magic Box, singing "We're the Knights of the Round Table..."

Serves me right for watching the double-disk DVD of Monty Python and the Holy Grail late Sunday night...

[> [> [> [> [> Hummm... which conjures yet another now obvious Python/Restless synchronicity... -- OnM, 20:39:29 09/09/02 Mon

Where Giles and Olivia push the pram a lot.

;-)

[> Don't revoke Spike's Scooby Card Yet! -- cjc36, 05:52:33 09/09/02 Mon

Spike fought alongside them at the end of the Glory arc, into the unseen (save for comic mini) summer of 01, and through Bargaining I and II. Here, he was a Scooby, though he wouldn't describe himself that way.

I guess I use the term "Scoobies" to describe two different things: When talking about the show, as a viewer, I consider a Scooby anybody who A) Knows what's what in regards to real vampires and that Buffy is the Slayer of vampires, and B) Is helping or has helped Buffy or any other member of the "gang" fight the fight. Now they may no longer BE a Scooby- Oz is no longer one because he left town. Same with Cordy. Can you pair off questionable member with one other member and have them patrol or fight? If yes, then they are a Scooby. This is opposed to a civilian or bad guy, who aren't Scoobies.

Tara summed up the next classification nicely: The "Scooby Core" or "Slayer Circle." That is the B,W,X (and Giles) bedrock all other members link to. The Original Not Ready for Primetime Scoobies. And I just call them Scoobies, too.

[> [> "Scooby Meeting" in Bargaining -- Scroll, 06:28:46 09/09/02 Mon

I don't know if Spike is a Scooby just because he helped fight Glory and patrolled with the gang over the summer. When Willow came up with the plan to resurrrect Buffy, the "Scoobies" kept Giles, Dawn, and Spike in the dark. I think that's partly why Spike was so upset at Xander in "Afterlife" -- because he'd been fighting side by side with the Scoobies all summer, and now he found out that they'd been planning this huge thing behind his back. They never even thought to include him in their plans. Or if Willow did consider it, she ruled against Spike being in the group because Willow (and this is Spike's take on the sitch) was afraid Buffy would come back wrong and Willow would have to get rid of her.

[> [> [> A command unit thing. -- cjc36, 07:40:46 09/09/02 Mon

I'm still thinking of the term differently from most, I guess. To me Scooby means someone part of a group of fighters: a paramilitary/rebel unit designation if you will. And peciking orders do form in even loosely-formed units. There are intra-unit cliques that know more than others. Spike/Dawn could be considered rank and file memebers. They fight, but they do not make decisions. Maybe I should call them (the Spikes, Dawn's, et al.) quasi, or semi- Scoobies. But since there is no structured command with Buffy and her friends, there really isn't any diehard way to come to an answer to the original question.

Spike fought with them for a while. If one quacks like a duck....

[> [> [> [> Re: A command unit thing. -- Slain, 14:21:11 09/09/02 Mon

Spike did fight with the Scoobies for a short while, but we're talking only a few episodes. Usually, he only helped them because of his own self interest/self preservation. But, mostly importantly I think, Spike never considered himself part of the gang, and never wanted to be part of it - and he used the term 'Scooby gang' (or other variations) as an insult. Spike just isn't into taking orders, and to working with other people, unless he happens to be sleeping with them - look back to the Fanged Four, and his attitude to Angelus and the Master. That's not to say that Spike couldn't become a real Scooby, but he'd have to want to, first.

[> [> [> [> [> Then why? -- vh, 06:55:54 09/10/02 Tue

If Spike would help the Scoobies only out of his own interest, and didn't care to be part of the gang, why did he join with them over the summer? As you say, Buffy was gone, he had no idea she was coming back, he's not into taking orders and the Scoobies certainly weren't going to put him in charge, there was no preservation--indeed, considerable risk--in going after vampires with them. So what do you say he was doing with them at all? Just curious.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Perhaps he was bored? -- Slain, 14:26:30 09/10/02 Tue

Having forgotten about Spike & the summer (in my defence it mostly didn't happen on screen!) I'll have to backtrack and say that up until Spike fell for Buffy, has was acting out of his own interests. Then he was acting to impress Buffy, and to protect Dawn, mini-Buffy (even if she is taller). Then he was trying to become part of the Scooby Gang.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Spike's motivations between S5 and S6 -- cjl, 14:51:31 09/10/02 Tue

Remember, Spike was acting out the fantasy scenario of knight errand, courting the unattainable woman, elevating her to near beatific heights. When Dante lost his Beatrice, he still dedicated much of his poetry to his idealized woman.

I see Spike converting Buffy into his Beatrice, dedicating his battles to his lost lady, protecting bitty Buffy (Dawn) and aiding the Scoobs as a tribute the fallen heroine. When Buffy was resurrected, he was dealing with the real thing again, and Buffy got knocked off her pedestal really fast...

Would Spike have continued his knightly behavior if Buffy had stayed dead? Sure, probably for another ten, twenty, thirty years--an eyeblink for a vampire. Of course, after that, he might have gotten bored...

And then who knows?

[> Anyone who would appreciate being called a Scoobie probably IS a Scoobie. -- cjl, 09:01:00 09/09/02 Mon

If a person is in the gang, appreciates the cheesiness of the reference AND takes comfort in the sense of family it entails, then that individual can be called a Scoobie. That would eliminate Angel, Spike, and Giles (all of whom would bristle at being tagged a "Scoobie").

Anya and Tara were in. (Both out--for different reasons--by the end of S6.)
Oz and Cordy were in. (Spiritually, always will be.)
Faith was never in. (Trust issues.)
Riley? Marginal.
Dawn has always been in.

Rokay?

[> Re: Who exactly are "The Scoobies"? -- Marginal Drifter, 16:12:44 09/09/02 Mon

I'm with Willow in that it's this whole group thing that's centred around the slaying (though as far as the social aspect goes, I've always seen Willow as being the "centre" of the gang, since both Buffy and Xander would consider her their "best" friend over each other, which would explain why she resents co-slayers who she doesn't get on with, like Cordy and Anya). I think the teamwork aspect is what makes the Scooby Gang what they are, the way they all work together from scratch to get the vampires slain etc.

Buffy - definitely a Scooby, due to you know, being the vampire slayer and 'cos it's her show and all the obvious stuff like that thing.

Willow- yup, right since WTTH she's been there with the books and the plans and the tagging along on patrol etc.

Xander - see Willow

Giles - see Willow

Cordy - yes, even though she wasn't that up for hanging with the less-than-popular gang she was still there whittling her stakes and helping out and stuff. God bless her.

Angel - no. Angel only helped out with the fighting To truly be a Scoobie you have to be there for all the boring research and doughnut buying also.

Jenny - tough call. I'm gonna go with no, because of the whole secret Gypsy stuff that meant that she had her own supernatural mission thing that she didn't share with the rest of the group.

Oz - Yuppity, and he remains one even after leaving. I guess it was hard for him to be tied up in the bookcage so much and not get involved with all the other hijinks in the library.

Spike- Nopey. Spike's just not a team player, and like Angel he's mostly there for the muscle. Even when he is providing information, the fact that he uses his own sources instead of joining in the boring research sessions shows that he's separate from the other Scoobies.

Riley - Hmmmm....see, I think he was welcomed into the Scoobies and such, but that he was never really comfortable with it, I think he found the whole set up too amateurish compared to the army, you get the sense of that in Fool for Love.

Anya - Well, she runs the Magic Shop, which is kind of Scoobie central for one thing. I like how she went from totally being outside it to gradually getting involved and then helping out at the end of S6 when she's stopped hanging around with them socially. ( I really felt for her when she accused Buffy of taking Xander's side cos he was her friend and she wasn't)

Dawn - Not yet fully involved, but she's on her way there what with the research and the fighting at the end of Grave and such.

Tara - Nopey. See how she was no longer as involved with the slaying after she broke up with Willow. There's this bit at the start of Family, where she says she's not even sure she wants to break into the Scoobie's bond. I'd see Tara as not being a team player, not in the antisocial way Spike stays out of things, but just because she's wired that way, she'd be more inclined to interact with a group while maintaining her own individuality.

Faith - no, she had too many trust issues to allow herself to be fully integrated into a team like that.

Classic Movie of the Week - September 7th 2002 -- OnM, 21:13:39 09/08/02 Sun

*******

First keep the peace within yourself, then you can also bring peace to others.

............ Thomas Kempis

Diplomacy-- the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a stick.

............ Wynn Catlin

No real social change has ever been brought about without a revolution....Revolution is but thought carried
into action.

............ Emma Goldman (from Anarchism, 1917)

If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live.

............ Martin Luther King, Jr.

[America is] a rebellious nation. Our whole history is treason; our blood was attained before we were born;
our creeds were infidelity to the mother church; our constitution treason to our fatherland.

............ Theodore Parker

Agitation is the marshalling of the conscience of a nation to mold its laws.

............ Robert Peel

He who takes a stand is often wrong, but he who fails to take a stand is always wrong.

............ Anonymous

In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. Those who feel like
they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America. They
represent the worst of humankind. And they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

............ President George W. Bush (Sept 17th 2001 - Address at a Washington, D.C. mosque)


*******

Summer isn't officially over for several more weeks yet, but for most of us in the U.S., summer pretty
much ends with the Labor Day weekend. The kids are headed back to school, vacations are off until next
year, and the world keeps on turning. ('Proud Mary keep on... oops, the rhyme doesn't quite work with
'turning', it would have to be 'toinin' or somesuch. Ah, never mind).

Last year at this time, I decided to bridge the remaining 3 or 4 weeks pre-Buffy-season-premiere with a
kind of thematically related cluster of flicks. Since the major topic of interest at the start of S6 was Buffy's
death (and imminent 'rebirth'), I figured 'Death is a Gift??' might be a suitable link. So, I started
out with Gus Van Sant's To Die For, followed a week later by Michael Tolkin's The
Rapture, and then one week before the premiere, Jim Jarmusch's B&W excursion into the spiritual
'end of the line', Dead Man.

In the midst of all of this came (of course), 9-11, and Americans finally discovered the horror of being
attacked by a terrorist group not in some remote foreign embassy or military base, but within our very own
continental and non-military U.S. As I write this, virtually every currently available media format-- TV,
newspapers, magazines, e-media, whathaveyou, is gearing up (and somewhat cautiously at times) to
commemorate the anniversary of this unquestionable tragedy.

But have we learned anything during the last year? I have to wonder. Like most people, I was shocked and
angry, but at the same time there was this whiny, sarcastic voice in the back of my head that kept asking
annoying questions, such as 1) Just exactly what are we going to do about this? 2) Will whatever we do be
genuinely useful in preventing this sort of thing from happening again? and 3) Why are you asking when
you already pretty much know the answer?

A year later, I'm neither pleased nor proud to see that the whiny voice was pretty much right on. We did
manage to (mostly) get rid of the Taliban, which is certainly a big check mark in the plus column, but other
than that what has been accomplished? We've dropped lots of bombs, killed quite a number of people,
destroyed a lot of property, spent a great deal of money doing it, and haven't even caught the primary
perpetrator of the scheme. There is also the other big question that keeps nagging at me, which is why
didn't we do something earlier? I'm afraid of what I think the answer is there, too, so I'm not going to go
that way, at least not tonight.

Now, I understand the need to do something, anything. It's human nature-- someone attacks you,
you can only turn the other cheek for so long, because you begin to realize that your enemy doesn't
perceive the compassion or understanding in you that turning the cheek represents, he only perceives that
you are 'weak', and that the weak must be destroyed, lest it 'poison' the rest of his 'society'.

It's a balancing act, walking the fence between minding your own business and willfully interfering in the
affairs of other people/societies/countries. Sometimes you need to hold back and resist the urge to get
involved; at other times action is clearly called for.

Which brings us to this week's Classic Movie, Do the Right Thing, written, produced and
directed by one of the most creative minds out there in contemporary cinema, Spike Lee. Released over 11
years ago, this movie is still able to stir emotions-- sometimes to anger-- because like the greater world that
it is a reflection of, very little seems to have changed over that time.

The story takes place during an extremely hot day in the Bedford-Stuyevesant neighborhood of Brooklyn,
NY. In the vast majority of movies that are set in an urban 'landscape', there would be lots of shadowy
alleyways, tall buildings, and a general feeling of dread or decay emphasized by the cinematography,
typically all muted greys and browns, or pervasive rainfall or fog. Lee breaks away from this cliche by
lighting everything in his microcosmic cityscape very brightly and pushing the color level of the film stock
as high as he can get it. The end effect is a curious mixture of the real and the surreal, and at a number of
times Do the Right Thing seems more like the filming of a stage play than a conventional movie.
Whatever the photographic techniques employed, it is clear that this neighborhood, poor and run down
though it may be, is nonetheless a functioning community where people live and hang out among one
another.

Lee fills his community with quite a large number of characters, and it can take a while until we become
familiar with them, but nearly all play a part in the gradually unfolding events of the day. After the
high-energy opening credit sequence with Rosie Perez doing an eminently dynamic and funky presentation
of Public Enemy's tune 'Fight the Power', the scene cuts abruptly to 'Mister Senor Love Daddy' (Sam
Jackson), the DJ for FM 108, 'WE-LOVE' radio, who/which is a recurring link throughout the film, as
he/it provides commentary and musical accompaniment to the events of the day from the window of the
broadcast booth.

Next we meet 'Da Mayor' (Ossie Davis), a comradely drunk who along with 'Mother Sister'(Ruby Dee)
seem to represent the elderly portion of the community. Then we meet one of the other pivotal characters,
Mookie, played by Lee. He seems to be living with his sister, Jade (Spike Lee's real sister, Joie Lee), who's
tired of having him crash in her apartment, and keeps urging him to get a real job and stop depending on
her. There's 'Smiley' (Roger Guenveur Smith), a somewhat retarded man who apparently makes his living
by selling pictures of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, and Mookie's girlfriend Tina (Rosie Perez), who,
like Mookie's sister, wants him to take on more responsibility, although mostly for for their baby boy.

We also have 'Buggin Out' (Giancarlo Esposito), a vocal militant with an obsession for keeping his
expensive sneakers immaculately clean; 'Radio Raheem' (Bill Nunn), whose monsterously loud boom box
seem to define his entire personality, and then there are these three old guys on the corner who, in a
manner somewhat counterpoint/analogous to Senor Love Daddy, comment on community developments,
but at much less sound-bitey length.

The neighborhood itself is primarily African-American, but two of the businesses that are still operating
there are not. There is a Korean grocery store that has apparently opened up just recently, but the oldest
shop is one named 'Sal's Famous Pizzeria', and the owner, Sal (Danny Aiello), has been at this same
location since a time when the neighborhood was primarily Italian-American. Sal runs the business with the
help of his two sons, Pino (John Turturro) and Vito (Richard Edson), and also employs Mookie, who
delivers pizzas. (Mookie also acts as a messenger of sorts with in the community, which his delivery duties
lend themselves to). Mookie does what he needs to do at his job, but nothing more-- his heart isn't in it
because he knows there's no real future for him in delivering pizzas.

Sal could have left the decaying neighborhood years ago, but he stays out of a genuine sense of pride that
his business contributes positively to the community. He boasts that he knows everyone personally, young
to old, and that "these people have grown up on my pizza". Sal is a down-to-earth, no-nonsense kind of
guy who basically prefers to get along with everyone and just tend to business. Pino, on the other hand,
despises what his father has created. Filled with hatred for the business, his brother, and the neighborhood,
he sets out to make his own unhappiness into everyone else's, especially for Mookie, who largely sloughs
off the insults directed at him.

Pino is a vocal racist who restricts his vitriol in public, but doesn't hesitate to spill it to anyone who isn't in
a position to do him any real harm. Vito is more easy-going and open-minded, and considers himself to be
'one of the brothers', although Pito assures him that this is a serious failing/weakness on his part.

Lee is very careful not to take the obvious course in presenting his characters' personalities-- while early
on some of the people seem one-dimensional, as the story progresses we see that they are far more
complicated, regardless of skin color or ethnic background. One nicely-scripted encounter has a white man,
wheeling a bicycle, bump into Buggin' Out. Buggin' freaks less because of the clearly accidental brush-up,
but because one of his sneakers has gotten soiled as a result. He follows the man down the street, accosting
him. A small crowd gathers and Buggin', trying to turn the oft-used epithet 'Why don't you go back where
you came from originally' around and direct it at the white cyclist, gets the sarcastic rejoinder that "I'm
originally from Brooklyn".

Not all of the characters are likeable, nor are they intended to be. Lee makes it very plain that racism isn't
just some thing that the white Pino feels about blacks. Around the mid-point of the film, Lee sets up a
series of shots where several different characters face the camera and release a stream of racial/ethnic
epithets directed at whatever group they happen to hate the most. The steadily increasing hot weather of
the day has become an apt metaphor for the emotional heat building within, and just how little of a spark
would be required to 'start a fire'.

That spark occurs when Buggin' Out, who is annoyed to distraction that Sal has only pictures of famous
Italians hung on the walls of his pizzeria. He thinks that since most of Sal's customers are black, that there
should also be some pictures of famous African-Americans there too.

As might be expected, Sal prefers Frank Sinatra to Public Enemy and invites Buggin' Out to bug the hell
out of his shop after Buggin' gets rowdy about the idea. To exact revenge, and enact some of what he sees
as 'social justice', Buggin attempts to organize a boycott of Sal's. Unfortunately, while most of the
community likes Buggin', they also like Sal and his pizza, and so he doesn't get anywhere. Finally, he
approaches Radio Raheem, who earlier has ventured into Sal's with his boom-box blasting, and had Sal
refuse to serve him until he turned it off. The two of them go on to announce their boycott at closing time,
where, again, the boom box becomes the issue and the pent-up rage finally overflows into violence.

Incredibly, Do the Right Thing was only Lee's third film. He chose to make this effort not only
stylish and involving, but also had the courage to present the situation for the movie viewer 'as is', and not
attempt to present a 'solution' for the complex (and possible unsolvable) problems that are illustrated. The
film ends with two quotations, one from Martin Luther King, and the other from Malcolm X, which offer
seemingly contradictory attitudes towards the role of utilizing violence to solve problems. Some viewers
might see this as a cop-out on Lee's part, but then isn't the very title of the film the answer all along?

And as soon as I figure out what the 'Right Thing' to do is, I'll be sure to let you know.


E. Pluribus Cinema, Unum,

OnM


*******

Technically the choice is up to you:

Do the Right Thing is available on DVD, the review copy was on laserdisc. The film was released
in 1989 and running time is 2 hours even. Primary producing and screenwriting credits go to the director,
Spike Lee. Co-producers were Jon Kilik and Monty Ross. Cinematography was by Ernest R. Dickerson
with film editing by Barry Alexander Brown. Production design was by Wynn Thomas, with set decoration
by Steve Rosse and costume design by Ruth E. Original music was by Chuck D., Flavor Flav, Bill Lee and
Mervyn Warren. The original theatrical soundtrack mix was Dolby SR.

Cast overview:

Danny Aiello .... Sal
Ossie Davis .... Da Mayor
Ruby Dee .... Mother Sister
Richard Edson .... Vito
Giancarlo Esposito .... Buggin' Out
Spike Lee .... Mookie
Bill Nunn .... Radio Raheem
John Turturro .... Pino
Paul Benjamin .... ML
Frankie Faison .... Coconut Sid
Robin Harris .... Sweet Dick Willie
Joie Lee .... Jade
Miguel Sandoval .... Officer Ponte
Rick Aiello .... Officer Long
John Savage .... Clifton

*******

The Question of the Week:

Is the only effective way to unite normally acrimonious social or ethnic communities to provide them
with a common enemy to fight? Is it even possible to do this anymore, with the growing awareness in many
cultures that the real enemy is usually ourselves?

Post 'em if you've got 'em, and stay tuned for next week, when we will definitely have some fresh new
ambiguity to ponder.

In the meantime, take care, and don't jive like my other!

;-)

*******

[> Did the Scoobies Do the Right Thing? Spike Lee and BtVS Season 6 -- cjl, 08:19:00 09/09/02 Mon

A long time ago, just after the end of last season, I was going to do a huge essay on the issue of trust in Season 6 BtVS. (I shelved it, but that's another story...) "Do the Right Thing" was going to be a crucial comparison point.

Basically, I proposed that the reason everything got screwed up in Season 6 was because the Scoobies broke the bonds of trust on every conceivable level:

1. Cosmic - Willow defies the judgment of Fate/The Gods/TPTB, and brings Buffy back to life. Metaphysical consequence: the Gods seemingly abandon Sunnydale, rendering our heroes the Existential Scoobies in the most literal sense of the words.

2. Community - Obsessed with their own personal problems, the Scoobs allow Warren and the nerds to roam free, with disastrous results.

3. Interpersonal - Buffy and Spike. Xander and Anya. Willow and Tara. Giles and Buffy. Buffy and Dawn. Dawn and Anya. Oy, and oy again.

4. Personal - One example out of dozens: Xander, most distressingly, did not trust his instincts--his heart--and cruelly abandoned Anya at the altar. Anya, not trusting her newfound humanity, abandoned it for renewed demonhood. Additional consequences still pending on both decisions.

Where does Spike (Lee) come in on all this? "Do the Right Thing" dramatically showed what happens when various ethnic groups in a community are in conflict, to the detriment of the community as a whole. If there is no mutual respect, no trust, the center does not hold, and INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS can easily let loose chaos.

Similarly, it BtVS Season 6, Buffy and crew were too wrapped up in their own personal problems and obsessions to deal with their responsibilities to the community. (Giles' retreat to England is especially significant in this respect, no matter how well intentioned.) With their mutual sense of purpose gone, the center did not hold, and the individual actions of our heroes and villains let loose chaos.

* * * * * * * * * * *

On a closing note, "Do the Right Thing" is probably Lee's best movie, but my favorite is always going to be his first, "She's Gotta Have It." I'm less enthusiastic about some of his other films, because I'm distracted by his axe grinding away in the background...

[> [> OT: Spike Lee Joints -- Q, 19:56:41 09/09/02 Mon

What are you insane!

Get on the Bus is so amazingly incredible!
Malcom X
Bamboozled
Jungle Fever

etc. etc.

He is to me, the all time greatest film maker, and NOT just for Do the Right Thing.

[> Re: Classic Movie of the Week - September 7th 2002 -- Wisewoman, 14:42:37 09/09/02 Mon

The film ends with two quotations, one from Martin Luther King, and the other from Malcolm X, which offer
seemingly contradictory attitudes towards the role of utilizing violence to solve problems. Some viewers
might see this as a cop-out on Lee's part, but then isn't the very title of the film the answer all along?

And as soon as I figure out what the 'Right Thing' to do is, I'll be sure to let you know.


Thank you, thank you, thank you! Mmmmmmmmwwwwha (big kisses) to OnM! That's exactly how I've always felt about this film as well--"Spike, Spike, Spike, what do you want me to do, man?"

Is the only effective way to unite normally acrimonious social or ethnic communities to provide them with a common enemy to fight?

I would like to think that giving them a common goal would have a positive effect, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. I know that dealing with a "natural" enemy (fire, flood, tornado, earthquake) rather than a human enemy can have a very unifying effect on a diverse community.

Is it even possible to do this anymore, with the growing awareness in many cultures that the real enemy is usually ourselves?


I guess I'm not clear on this because I'm not sure who "ourselves" is. Can you help me out with an example? Thanks!

dub ;o)

[> [> Re: Classic Movie of the Week - September 7th 2002 -- Dichotomy, 17:23:54 09/09/02 Mon

Maybe it's that our fears, prejudices and selfishness (as individuals, groups, communities) keep us from being the society that we claim we want to be? That's kind of what I was thinking OnM meant. But I could be way off base. OnM?

[> [> "We have met the enemy, and he is us." -- OnM, 20:33:20 09/09/02 Mon

Which as far as I know, is attributed to Walt Kelly, who created the character of Pogo, and the comic strip that he inhabited.

There are a lot of possible interpretations of this statement, which mine was just a variant of.

Being a 'scientific humanist' (more or less), I tend to think of the growing, and undoubtably discomfiting realization by many that we are mostly just intelligent animals, and still largely hapless slaves to our DNA. We like to pride ourselves on our rationality, but we still tend to react in a primal fashion when emotions run high-- fear, anger, jealousy, etc. My own personal take is that recognizing the true nature of our limitations is the first step to overcoming them, or at least initiating a dialog with them.

Others of a more religious bent could evoke the concept of 'original sin' or one of its variations, that we are doomed to behave destructively because we have somehow offended God and were 'cast out' because of it. Sort of, 'We Think, therefore We Sin'. Not my cup of apple juice, but, hey... different stokes for different smokes.

Whatever the case, or the range of possibilities between these two extremes, having the confidence to heed a call to action traditionally tends to require that we become emotionally involved, and much of 'modern' society rejects this ancient paradigm. We like to be cool, thoughtful, sure of what we need to do, freed of the cloudiness of emotion, before we act. But if we are truly detached, will we ever act?

Anyway, this is only one interpretation. There are others, such as ones based on the concept of 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. Are we right in pursuing war against an enemy that we ourselves have possibly wronged in the past? Is the opponent an evil fanatic, or righteously aggrieved? A lot of what happened in Do the Right Thing hinges on exactly this pivot point.

It seems to me that there are only more questions, not more answers.

There, now wasn't that helpful?

;-)

[> [> [> Re: "We have met the enemy, and he is us." -- Rufus, 01:30:29 09/10/02 Tue

Being a 'scientific humanist' (more or less), I tend to think of the growing, and undoubtably discomfiting realization by many that we are mostly just intelligent animals, and still largely hapless slaves to our DNA. We like to pride ourselves on our rationality, but we still tend to react in a primal fashion when emotions run high-- fear, anger, jealousy, etc. My own personal take is that recognizing the true nature of our limitations is the first step to overcoming them, or at least initiating a dialog with them.

The vampire of course is the perfect metaphor for what happens when we disregard our limitations and act out our feelings.....'scientific humanist'...scary to think what you'd be like if your conscience ever took a holiday...;)

[> [> [> Thanks, um, I think... ;o) -- dub, 09:26:41 09/10/02 Tue

Is it even possible to do this anymore, with the growing awareness in many cultures that the real enemy is usually ourselves?


Is "ourselves" to be read as human beings, then? That would make sense in light of the reference to "many cultures," however:

Are we right in pursuing war against an enemy that we ourselves have possibly wronged in the past?

made me think "we" and "ourselves" might refer to Americans. But that could just be because tomorrow looms and it's difficult to interpret "war" and "enemy" in any other way right now. And I would then, with the previous reference to various cultures, need to know what sort of Americans we were talking about, i.e. WASP-Americans, Italian-Americans, African-Americans, Muslim-Americans, etc, etc, etc.

I'm being a pain in in the arse, aren't I? I don't know why, except that the first quote really did confuse me. If I look at it as referring to all human beings, then it makes sense to me now, so thanks!

;o) dub

[>Re: Classic Movie of the Week - September 7th 2002 -- Dichotomy, 17:14:42 09/09/02 Mon

Great flick, OnM! Like Buffy, it really gives you food for thought and has no doubt been the starting point for everything from debate to violent argument. In fact, my husband (he was my boyfriend at the time) and I got into our first huge fight after watching "Do the Right Thing." It started as a discussion of what the "right thing" to do was in many of the situations presented and ended with him demanding that I pull over the car so he could walk home. And we're not normally prone to dramatics and screaming! That, and we're both what could be called moderate to liberal in our beliefs. And even we couldn't agree!

The other eye-opening part of that first viewing experience was the audience's reactions. It was a sneak preview screening attended partly by the local film society (mostly white and 25-50) and partly by listeners of a radio station geared toward urban youth, (mostly black and 18-30). As the climatic scene at Sal's unfolded, I saw and heard everything from cheers to silent headnods to tense anticipation to digusted toothsucking. Rarely have I been to a film where the audience's reactions were so widely scattered. Some might consider it too provocative, but I would still recommend it, subsequent screaming fight and all.

BTW, a question for those who've seen it: Did anyone think Mookie's final demand of Sal was reasonable? That was the one thing my hubby and I did agree on (our opinion of it, that is). Just curious.