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December 2004

Buffy S7 is on sale at Target for only $17.77, only today and tomorrow, Nov. 26th and 27th... -- Rob, 10:41:51 11/26/04 Fri

So if you haven't bought a copy yet, now's the best time! I got the link from whedonesque.

http://weeklyad.target.com/target/listing_detail.asp?storeid=2395982& listingid=-2097614987&ref=%2Ftarget%2Fcategory%5Fbrowse%2Easp%3FStoreID% 3D2395982%26CatTreeID%3D136560%26ViewMode%3D0%26clicksrc%3D01

Rob

Replies:

[> Ouch, first the S1-4 bargain pack, now this! -- Ames, 14:19:17 11/26/04 Fri

Oh well, there's a price to be an early buyer. At least I got Firefly on sale. :-)

[> Thanks for the tip! Sold out, but got a raincheck. -- tomfool, 09:08:50 11/28/04 Sun

Could a superhuman like Buffy or Connor handle the visions? -- megaslayer, 12:00:05 11/27/04 Sat

Buffy has had visions and suffered no ill effects. Connor is stronger than a average human being so he could possibly handle it. Skip said that only demons can handle the visions like doyle or cordy. Mainly the reason that humans aren't strong enough to take the stress of the visions. Another thing if the powers could make the human race stronger if they wanted. Connor and the slayers were created not easily but they were still made superhuman.

Replies:

[> Re: Could a superhuman like Buffy or Connor handle the visions? -- q 3, 20:37:04 11/27/04 Sat

If Skip can be trusted on this, then the main problem seems simply to be that getting a vision causes intense neurological damage, ultimately resulting in brain death (or having your brain explode, a la that girl Skip introduced to Cordelia in her coma). While it's possible that a slayer's regenerative abilities would be sufficient to repair any such damage before it got too serious, I don't think we've evidence of their healing factor working on the brain. (It certainly didn't seem to help Buffy in "Normal Again.")

[> What would Andrew say? -- Cleanthes, 07:04:35 11/28/04 Sun

A question like this falls into the exact category of question that Andrew, Johnathon and Warren would argue about. I don't trust the other two's judgment on this, but, since Dalton really was the best James Bond, I would trust Andrew to figure this out.
"u have a choice connor.that's sthg more precious than u'll ever know" NOW i get wat she meant! lol! -- ghady, 08:54:04 11/27/04 Sat


Replies:

[> Care to elucidate? -- Kana, 04:53:12 11/29/04 Mon


[> [> yea sure! -- ghady, 16:18:08 11/29/04 Mon

I don't know why, but it took me a while to understand that darla was actually giving connor a hint that what's coming is gonna strip everyone of their free will.. "u have a choice... that is something more precious than you'll ever know.."---> she was TRYING to tell him that if he chooses to do this, he wont have any more choices, EVER.. she couldn't say too much bcs "they are things happening, connor, things that i can't..... (sighs).. it has to be YOUR CHOICE."-->again with the foreshadowing..
i dont think anyone would have noticed the significance of what she said until after several viewings (well, me at least).. i saw this ep on dvd abt 3 times after i had orginally seen it on TV, and i think that experienced this epiphany on like my fourth DVD viewing.. it's odd.. anyways gtg do some chem or bio ;-)
Updated DVD content index -- Ames, 11:54:13 11/27/04 Sat

I've updated my Buffy DVD content index at http://tinyurl.com/3hy5b for Season 7. (No, I still haven't gotten around to Angel S4)

A few observations:

The Season 7 DVD set has less overall content than the last few seasons, but on the plus side there are 7 commentaries (matching S4), including more involvement from the actors.

My vote for best commentary is CWDP, with Nick Marck (director), Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Danny Strong, and Tom Lenk.

Average episode length continued to drop, down to about 41.5 min. in S7. The shortest episode ever is Never Leave Me at 39m 29s, but it did have one of the longest ever Previously on Buffy segments at 2m 11s.

No more scripts or photo galleries after S5, and the only DVD-ROM feature is an update of Willow's Demon Database.

The Easter Egg on the Region 1 DVDs is the missing Previously On Buffy montage from The Gift.

BTW, it's obvious from the slightly squished title screens that they were designed for the 16:9 aspect ratio in other regions.

Replies:

[> Where is the Easter Egg? -- Rob, 12:49:30 11/27/04 Sat


[> [> Re: Where is the Easter Egg? -- Ames, 13:51:02 11/27/04 Sat

Accessed by moving Left on the Special Features menu of Disc 6 to hilight a concealed Buffy "B".

[> [> [> Re: Where is the Easter Egg? -- The 2nd Evil, 15:33:00 11/27/04 Sat

Specificly the Featurettes menu.

[> [> [> [> Excellent...Thanks! I'd been searching for it for a while, but gave up. -- Rob (who can't find *anything*...just ask Bit ;-) ), 15:59:50 11/27/04 Sat


[> ...and Angel S4 -- Ames, 09:58:53 11/28/04 Sun

As long as I was at it, I added Angel S4 to the DVD content index at http://tinyurl.com/3hy5b as well.

The Angel DVD sets generally don't have as much extra content as the Buffy DVD sets, but Angel S4 got a bit closer with 7 commentaries and over an hour of extra features.
buffyspeak in "grist" -- anom, 07:04:07 11/28/04 Sun

So I was reading the online environmental magazine Grist, & I happened to click on the "Daily Grist" column for Wednesday, & in the 3rd item down, there's a reference to "roast beast." Unattributed, though (hmmph), & in the context of a different holiday--and they misspelled "forgo" (eeesh)--but here it is:

"Traditionally the biggest shopping day of the year, the Friday after Thanksgiving sends millions of Americans, drone-like, to the malls to kick-start the holiday consumption orgy. But before you foil-wrap the roast beast and stash the organic cranberry dressing in the fridge, consider celebrating another holiday: Buy Nothing Day. Officially observed Nov. 26 this year in the U.S. and Nov. 27 internationally, Buy Nothing Day calls on consumers -- formerly known as 'people' -- to forego the siren song of day-after sales and protest overconsumption. Activists the world over will be staging events to highlight facts like this: 20 percent of the world's population consumes more than 80 percent of its natural resources. Americans alone throw away 5 million more tons of trash between Thanksgiving and Christmas than during any other month. Do your part to curb the waste by doing, well, nothing."

Well, at least somebody on staff has watched Buffy, or knows someone who has!

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[> Re: buffyspeak in "grist" -- CW, 08:19:28 11/28/04 Sun

The Roast Beast in Buffy comes from Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas. But, I don't remember anything in the Grinch about organic cranberry sauce. ;o)
"Buffy" is #13 on Bravo's 100 Greatest TV Characters -- frisby, 13:23:13 11/28/04 Sun

As #13 Buffy beat out Frazier, Hawkeye, and 85 others as most notable tv character.

That's pretty good.

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[> Here's all 100 (from bravotv.com) -- frisby, 13:33:00 11/28/04 Sun

100. Xena
99. Monk
98. Steve Urkel
97. Dr. Smith
96. Artie
95. Doug Ross
94. Vic Mackey
93. Maynard G Krebs
92. Agent Dale Cooper
91. Caine
90. Herman Munster
89. Lt. Castillo
88. Jamie Somers
87. Gomez & Morticia
86. Maxwell Smart
85. Napoleon Solo/Illya Kuryakin
84. Bob Hartley
83. Vinnie Barbarino
82. Gil Grissom & Catherine Willow
81. Cast of Will & Grace
80. Jack Tripper
79. Charles Ingalls
78. Rob & Laura Petrie
77. Dr. Craig
76. Eleanor Frutt
75. Ally McBeal
74. Beaver
73. Dr. Johnny Fever
72. Dick Soloman
71. Dan Fielding
70. Niles Crane
69. David Addison/Maddie Hayes
68. Benson
67. Jim Ignatowski
66. Carla Tortelli
65. John Boy
64. Jessica Fletcher
63. Andy Taylor
62. Francis Xavier Pembleton
61. Crockett & Tubbs
60. Mork
59. Al & Peg Bundy
58. Barney Miller
57. Rhoda Morgenstern
56. Mick Belker
55. Capt. Picard
54. Rocky & Bullwinkle
53. Pres. Josiah Bartlett
52. Emma Peel
51. Murphy Brown
50. Sam & Diane
49. Maude Finley
48. Ted Baxter
47. Carmella Soprano
46. Cast of Friends
45. Marshall Matt Dillon
44. Cliff Huxtable
43. Thomas Magnum
42. Laverne & Shirley
41. The Barone Family
40. Fred Sanford
39. Kojak
38. Sgt. Ernie Bilko
37. Marcus Welby
36. Barney Fife
35. Lou Grant
34. Kermit & Miss Piggy
33. Maverick
32. Scully & Mulder
31. Samantha Stephens
30. Det. Lenny Briscoe
29. Alex Keaton
28. Perry Mason
27. Ann Marie
26. Frasier Crane
25. Joe Friday
24. Louis DePalma
23. Andy Sipowicz
22. Richard Kimball
21. Mr. Spock
20. Ed Norton
19. Eric Cartman
18. Roseanne
17. Jim Rockford
16. George Jefferson
15. J.R. Ewing
14. Hawkeye Pierce
13. Buffy
12. Edith Bunker
11. Carrie Bradshaw
10. Tony Soprano
9. Capt. James T. Kirk
8. Mary Richards
7. Lt. Columbo
6. Seinfeld Cast
5. Homer Simpson
4. The Fonz
3. Lucy Ricardo
2. Ralph Kramden
1. Archie Bunker

[> [> I Know So Many Of These Characters That I Am Scared! -- Wizard, 14:20:33 11/29/04 Mon


[> [> Re: Here's all 100 (from bravotv.com) -- skpe, 05:45:01 11/30/04 Tue

would have liked to have seen all the cast from Buffy on that list
charisma carpenter tonight: good news & bad news -- anom, 14:56:55 11/28/04 Sun

The good news: CC is appearing on TV tonight in a major guest role. The bad news: it's on Charmed (WB, 8 pm EST).

Hey, at least it's not The Mountain.

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[> Charmed 7-10: "Witchness Protection" (abundant spoilers, if anybody actually cares) -- cjl, 19:45:44 11/28/04 Sun

For those just joining us, Charisma is in the midst of a multi-episode stint on Charmed, playing a demonic seer whose visions have both bedeviled and aided the Glamorous Ladies of Halliwell Manor and Leo, Piper's oft-addled male guardian angel slash ex-husband slash father of her kids slash oh bugger it....

You don't care about Leo or Charmed. You just wanna know two things:

Did Charisma embarrass herself, and did she look fantastic?

The answers, thank God, are "definitely no" and "hell yeah."

In this episode, Charisma's very Cordelia-ish Seer asked for sanctuary from the Halliwells, and demanded that Leo's superiors (don't ask) turn her human in exchange for information about the mysterious baddies (or ARE they?) who have been hanging around the fringes of the storyline all season.

Got to admit, I came into this ep prepared to feel sorry for Charisma, but she was actually given a nice little character arc to play. She bonded with fellow psychic Phoebe (Alyssa Milano) and--I know this is inconceivable to some--elevated La Milano's acting just a tad.

I suppose you want the fashion report. I'm not good with the fashion stuff. This is HonorH's territory. All I noticed was: Black. Cape. Bare midriff. Cleavage. I'm sorry, but as a male SF geek, that's all I'm programmed to notice.

Did she give the Charmed Ones what they wanted? Did Leo's bosses (really, don't ask) turn her human, so she could enjoy the feeling of grass under her feet?

Well....




(Spoiler Space)














Yes, she gave the Phoebe the vision. It was a beautiful vision, of green fields, and puppies and happy children-- which means it's probably bogus and set up by the season's big bads.

And, tragically, a new demonic bad guy fried Charisma while she was modeling this gorgeous "I'm just a normal human woman"-type dress, thus setting off a number of plot complications that Brad Kern and the rest of the Charmed staff will probably mess up in the coming weeks.

So--well done, Charisma! (Ouch. Bad pun there.) But unless the Seer was faking her horrifying immolation (always possible), CC's Charmed stint is over.

Aw. (Yay?)

[> [> OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Lisa, 10:14:28 11/29/04 Mon

I have a question about the Avatars. When they were first introduced in the show's Season 5, they espoused the belief that the battle between good and evil was futile and would never end, but in disaster. Not only that, they seemed to believe that at one level, good and evil were all the same.

Now in Season 7, they want to create Utopia and this seems to go against their more ambiguous belief. Did Kern and his writers change the Avatars to make their beliefs more tasteless to the viewing audience? So that he can have a reason to allow good to triumph over evil in his usual, unoriginal fashion?

[> [> [> Re: OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Finn Mac Cool, 10:22:09 11/29/04 Mon

Actually, if anything, I think that the Avatars, as presented in Season 7, allow for a lot more moral ambiguity. When they converted Leo, they showed him that the endless battle between beings of evil and beings of good would inevitably lead to the untimely deaths of everyone he loves, and eventually the entire world as well. Their stated goal is to end the battle between good and evil and create a world where no one has to worry about the endless casualties anymore. In Season 5 the impression seemed to be more that they were self-centered, not caring about the morality or immorality of their actions, which is far less ambiguous. Of course, the Avatars and the Charmed Ones will almost certainly end up fighting each other, and if its just because "oh, the Avatars are actually evil, or at least totally heartless", then I will definitely cry foul. But, if the Charmed writers follow up on the groundwork they've laid, the battle could be for far more ambiguous reasons: what price might need to be paid to create this utopia, and what exactly happenes to the world once good AND evil are gone?

[> [> [> [> Re: OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Lisa, 10:30:33 11/29/04 Mon

"Actually, if anything, I think that the Avatars, as presented in Season 7, allow for a lot more moral ambiguity. When they converted Leo, they showed him that the endless battle between beings of evil and beings of good would inevitably lead to the untimely deaths of everyone he loves, and eventually the entire world as well. Their stated goal is to end the battle between good and evil and create a world where no one has to worry about the endless casualties anymore. "


That doesn't sound like moral ambiguity to me. That seems to smack of the furthering of the Elders' philosophy. Such a Utopian ideal would require the destruction of evil . . . which would go against the Avatars' so-called theory regarding the futility of the "good vs evil" thing.

I get the impression that this was Brad Kern's way of saying that moral ambiguity . . . IS BAD. And I hate this. I hate that he cannot overcome his black vs white mentality.

[> [> [> [> [> Re: OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Finn Mac Cool, 12:06:08 11/29/04 Mon

But the Avatars clearly said they weren't supporting the side of good. When talking with the lead Avatar, Leo said that all the destruction caused by the good/evil battle would end as soon as good won. The Avatar then dismissed this by saying that good can never win because the existence of good neccessitates the existence of evil. In his own words, "Duality is self-perpetuating. It feeds only on itself." Clearly they aren' going for the simple "destroy evil and make good triumph" deal. The Avatars' utopian ideal is one without forces of evil, yes, but also without forces of good. They seem to view the conflict between good and evil, the numerous casualties to both sides, as what must be stopped, and so attempt to create a world where good and evil no longer exist, ending the endless war.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Lisa, 12:11:48 11/29/04 Mon

"But the Avatars clearly said they weren't supporting the side of good.When talking with the lead Avatar, Leo said that all the destruction caused by the good/evil battle would end as soon as good won. The Avatar then dismissed this by saying that good can never win because the existence of good neccessitates the existence of evil. In his own words, "Duality is self-perpetuating. It feeds only on itself." Clearly they aren' going for the simple "destroy evil and make good triumph" deal. The Avatars' utopian ideal is one without forces of evil, yes, but also without forces of good."

But Finn, their attempts to create Utopia says otherwise. Creating a Utopia where everyone is happy leading simple lives? It smacks of Jasmine, who clearly wanted to eradicate evil to create a similar Utopia.

If this is CHARMED's version of moral ambiguity, it seems badly written. It seems that Brad Kern and his writers are trying to be morally ambiguous . . . and they're not achieving their goal. They're screwing it all up.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: OT: The Avatars on CHARMED -- Finn Mac Cool, 12:56:35 11/29/04 Mon

Comparing the Avatars to Jasmine isn't quite the same. Jasmine wanted to create a utopia by eradicating evil and putting "good" (namely herself) in charge of everything. The Avatars want to completely eradicate the concepts of good and evil, believing it's the only way to stop the world from being completely destroyed. Even the demons on Charmed don't want that; their ultimate goal is to control the world, not have it destroyed (which would destroy them along with it). So creating a utopia isn't necessarily the action of a "Good" entity (at least as the term is usually used on Charmed), in that they don't want to obliterate demons and have good reign supreme. If the Avatars do attempt to kill all the demons, they'd probably have to kill all the forces for good as well, otherwise one side would be preserved and (by the rules of duality) both sides would.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Corum Chronicles -- dmw, 15:02:25 11/29/04 Mon

If the Avatars do attempt to kill all the demons, they'd probably have to kill all the forces for good as well, otherwise one side would be preserved and (by the rules of duality) both sides would.

Charmed is looking quite interesting these days, and that's my reading of their actions too.

The Avatars remind me of the ending of Michael Moorcock's swords trilogy when Corum frees Kwll and Rhynn. They not only destroy the forces of Chaos as he intended, but also go on to destroy the forces of Law, allowing mankind freedom to live without supernatural interference from either direction.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Corum Chronicles -- Lisa, 13:31:15 11/30/04 Tue

I have a problem with the manner of which the Avatars are written.

Their words seemed to hint that the whole "good vs bad" battle and such bi-polar attitudes are irrevelant and destructive. Yet, they are trying to attempt a Utopia in the same manner as Jasmine - by destroying evil.

Their words and their actions seemed to be in conflict, and the writers of CHARMED, in my opinion, are not handling it well.

I suspect that in the end, the Charmed Ones and some demons will destroy the Avatars and that the whole "good vs evil" battle will resume, with "good" triumphing over evil. I think this is Brad Kern's way of being anti-ambiguous; and that his message of bi-polarity (good will one day triumph over evil - even if it takes forever) is the best for the world.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Corum Chronicles -- Finn Mac Cool, 13:54:11 11/30/04 Tue

I'll say it again:

Yes, the Avatars want to destroy evil, but that doesn't mean they want good to triumph. Jasmine was "good" trying to destroy all evil and reign supreme over the world. That's not what the Avatars want. In fact, according to them, good or evil winning the battle is impossible ("duality is self-perpetuating"). Their idea of a utopia is one where good and evil no longer fight their endless battle, causing far too many casualities to both sides (as well as to innocent bystanders). This can only happen by eliminating both sides. This means destroying evil, yes, but also taking good along with it. Do you get it yet?

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Corum Chronicles -- dmw, 14:04:31 11/30/04 Tue

Their words seemed to hint that the whole "good vs bad" battle and such bi-polar attitudes are irrevelant and destructive. Yet, they are trying to attempt a Utopia in the same manner as Jasmine - by destroying evil.

Why do you think they're attempting to destroy evil?

[> [> Re: Charmed 7-10: "Witchness Protection" (abundant spoilers, if anybody actually cares) -- skeeve, 08:25:16 11/30/04 Tue

cjl: "All I noticed was: Black. Cape. Bare midriff. Cleavage. I'm sorry, but as a male SF geek, that's all I'm programmed to notice."

Yet another one for the .sig files.

[> [> Pictures -- Pictures, 14:09:16 11/30/04 Tue

All I noticed was: Black. Cape. Bare midriff. Cleavage. I'm sorry, but as a male SF geek, that's all I'm programmed to notice.

There are screencaps of CC from the episode at buffy.nu.

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