May 2003 posts
Talking Judas/Savior or There Ain't No Cure for the Summers Time Blues - Thoughts on *Empty Places* -- OnM, 22:24:42 05/05/03 Mon
*******
Sometimes I wonder / What I'm a-gonna do...
............ Pete Townshend
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Wood: Why didn't you fight back?
Faith: Other things matter more.
*******
Come down off your throne
And leave your body alone
Somebody must change
You are the reason
I've been waiting all these years
Somebody holds the key
Well I'm near the end and I just ain't got the time
And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home
And I ain't done nothing wrong
But I can't find my way home
............ Steve Winwood
********
The current story arc on BtVS is reminding me more and more (as it has on many past occasions) of the TV series
La Femme Nikita, in that there are getting to be so many layers within layers within layers that after a while you
lose all sense of knowing just what exactly is going on-- but in a good way. Principal Wood commented earlier in the
season that he's fond of mysteries, so he should be having a good ol' time here, I would say.
This week the show opens up with a scene that is truly amazing, considering how for lo these many years the good
citizens of Sunnydale seemed to always manage to turn a blind eye towards the obviously bizarre and deadly goings-on
in their hometown. (Gangs... it was gangs, on PCP, as quoth Snyder. Yah-uh-huh.) We see the downtown
streets clogged with people leaving town-- some on foot, others in cars, but all exiting stage get the hell outta Dodge.
Even Clem is fahrvergnuggin' it.
This last sight is one that really bums our heroine, since if the demons are leaving, the sitch really has become
ultra-apocalyptic. Granted, Clem is not your typical human-hating brand of demon, and he's even trying to cut down
on the cat-eating-- cholesterol, you know. No, wait, morals. Morals and cholesterol. And maybe a sincere,
benevolently intended suggestion that Buffy get outa the vicinity also?
Oh dear. This is not good, not good at all.
But what else is new? Over the course of the last six seasons, the basic formula has always been adhered to desipte the
many different specific plot spins. Fall comes, and Evil is foreshadowed. Winter (or what passes for it in SoCal)
wanders through and the plot thickens like morning rush hour. Shift into spring and the end is nigh. How do we do
it / How do we do it / Volume volume / Turn up the volume. And so this year, the last, the greatest, the most
apocalyptic of all, we have the one and only First Evil and hir more corporeal henchman Caleb doing the dirty. All that
needs to happen now is for Buffy to get passionately desperate and depressed, and for the Scooby Gang to have a
big-time falling out. Oh, we're here? Thank you!
I do wonder how they do it. Each year the same, yet each year teasingly different and inventive in some fundamental
(and usually incremental) way. Back in the fall, it looked as though it might not come to this. The new-and-improved
Buffy and her new-and-improved friends might just rise to the challenge without first falling apart. Granted that would
be different, but also probably boring, so scratch that idea. Drama requires conflict, and there is no greater drama to be
had than the timeless battle twixt Good'n'Evil, and being that this is the last year for the show the steaks stakes
have to be high.
It's now three eps to go, and Buffy is depressed and desperate, right on time. The Scooby Gang is falling apart and...
no, wait a minute. Actually they aren't, they're pretty much of a common mind. Unfortunately, that common mind is
now adamantly opposed to the wishes of their fearless leader. As the show comes to a conclusion, the SIT's and the
Scoobies elect a new leader, and send the Buffster packing.
OK, that is new. Before, we always had intra-group splintering, this time we have a common group purpose
(and with a much bigger group, BTW), but it isn't to follow Buffy's lead. Bad idea, right? Of course it is. All those
years that Buffy was always right, and saved the day, and now it's wham bam thank you ma'm, get on the bus Gus? I
don't think so!
Except I do, sorta. This is a controversial episode in that it walks a very fine line by suggesting that Buffy's instincts,
traditionally her most powerful tool in the war against whatever the big bad may be, might be failing her. The reasons
for this could be assigned to a lot of potential causes, not to mention the whole deal with the Potentials themselves.
Plus, Faith is back in the picture, and this brings up the old question of whether or not the elder Slayer is supposed to
be the Chosen One this time around, or if the 'reformed' rogue is the key to winning the battle. Then there's the 'Key'
herself, who really incurs the wrath of much of the fan community with her 'betrayal' of her sister. Yessir, whole lotta
something or other going on, that's for darn maybe.
Let's break this down a bit at a time, and study the setup that leads to the kiss-off. After the opening credits and
commercial break, we return to a scene set in the Sunnydale hospital where we see Buffy, Willow and Xander, and
right away we know that something is very wrong. Willow is seated next to Xander on the bed, holding his hand. Buffy
is standing several feet away, hands clutched together in front of her abdomen, covered and hidden by a coat or jacket.
She is discussing what the doctors have told her about Xander's condition, and is trying her best to emulate their
detached and 'professional' demeanor while she encourages Xander that he'll probably be able to come home tonight.
Willow and Xander both clearly understand why Buffy is being so distant, but it still hurts them greatly, especially
Xander. We all recall the beautiful speech Xander gave the Potentials in Dirty Girls telling everyone how Buffy
was deserving of their trust and is worthy of her leadership position. Now the object of his long-term adoration and
respect won't even play cards with him to help fill out the empty place he is in. He understands her actions
intellectually, but emotionally it's a significant betrayal. Buffy leaves, citing the need to do more research on Caleb, and
Willow and Xander are left to try to fill the vacuum. Xander cracks some jokes about piracy and parrots. Willow tries
her best to comfort Xander by going along with his traditional laughing in the face of death routine, but she quickly
breaks down when it become painfully apparent that the deflection just isn't keeping the hurt out this time. She begins
to cry, and Xander exhorts her to not to-- if she gives in to this mounting despair, he really will be lost.
I harbor extreme admiration for the way this same tension is repeated throughout the program. One by one, each of
Buffy's subsequent interactions with the people around her set up the exact same dynamic. Buffy is so lost in her own
pain that it is taking all of her strength to keep up the appearances of being 'the leader'. It was difficult enough in the
old days to look after the safety of her friends, who despite their willing acceptance of the risks of what they were
involved in, were still ultimately her responsibility. After all, the traditional Slayer always worked alone, and Buffy has
deliberately broken with this paradigm. The rewards for doing so have been great-- there is no question that Buffy
would not have been able to 'save the world a lot' if it were not for the actions of her friends. But in the
Jossverse, no good deed goes unbalanced, and the benefits of having comrades-in-arms is teamed with the pain that
comes with the loss of one-- or many.
Buffy returns home to Casa Summers, where she, Dawn, Kennedy and Faith begin studying the files that Giles and
Willow 'liberated' from the Sunnydale police. Buffy is desperate not only to get some useful info regarding Caleb, she
needs to lose herself in the familiarity of research. Dawn, however, keeps pressing her for news about Xander's
condition, particularly his emotional state. Buffy appears to ignore her, which puzzles and distresses Dawn, but Faith
picks up on what's really happening in Buffy's head, and pointedly directs the 'pipsqueak' to go do her research
elsewhere.
What I love about this is that what seems harsh on the surface is in reality a loving gesture on Faith's part, directed at
Buffy. Yes, Dawn is irritated by Faith's remark, and she has a right to be, but Faith understands that there is a greater
need to care for at the moment, and that Buffy is that need. This is truly astounding behavior when you consider the
history between the two Slayers. In the past, with a similar situation in play, Faith would have said nothing at best, and
more likely would have taken her own opportunity to get a dig in about Buffy's compartmentalizing of her feelings, or
her 'superior' attitude.
Faith really has changed. She not only is perceptive enough to understand Buffy's impossible dilemma, she acts
correctly even though it means upsetting the Slayer's sister, and understanding that the Slayer herself may not even
pick up on what she is doing. There is no self-interest involved. Whatever happened to the philosophy of
want/take/have? Back sometime before the last two eps have aired, I heard grumblings in some places about rumors
that ME was going to have Faith revert to her old pre-redemption habits once she was back in Sunnydale, and that this
would be out of character for her as was depicted during her time in Los Angeles with the AI gang. Not only hasn't
this happened (at least so far), but Faith seems even more solid and self-assured in a positive way than she has ever
been.
I also have to admire how the writers are depicting this change in subtle ways like the one I just detailed, as opposed to
more grandiose and 'heroic' scenes. Grand gestures are easy forms of heroism in that you tend to get caught up in the
heat of the moment ('Drop me into the hornet's nest-- what the hell...') and aren't thinking in fine detail. This is
action more along the lines of Angel's remark from several seasons back about how the smallest things matter. And if
there is any question as to the sincerity involved, we get to see proof in just a few minutes after Buffy leaves for the
high school when Faith (gasp!!) stays at the table and starts quietly researching the police files. Faith doing
research?? Good Lord, as Giles would say.
While I skipped over it just now, I do want to mention the part of the above scene where Kennedy thoughtlessly makes
the remark about Caleb taking Buffy out with just one punch. While Kennedy immediately apologizes, it's too late--
Buffy abruptly gets up and makes an excuse to leave for the high school where she 'has some papers' to get. Buffy
assures Kennedy that 'it's all right', but she is clearly losing it. What's useful to mention at this moment, I think, is a
point recently made by another ATPo poster, which I'll quote here:
Since the Hellmouth is clearly affecting the residents of Sunnydale, a point brought out both by Clem's statement
and the action of the cops, why wouldn't that also affect Buffy, the scoobs, the SITs and Dawn? Making them act out
of character or at least on their worst instincts? The FE can manipulate them through minions or its own
manifestations, but the Hellmouth energy is an FE asset that gets overlooked and is very handy, for me, in rationalizing
some of the out-of-character moments we've seen. Add that negative energy to that scene, along with everything else
that's been mentioned, and I buy Dawn's actions.
............ shambleau ( on 05/04/03 )
While the quote is commenting on Dawn's 'out-of-character' actions at the end-of-ep confrontation, I think this is an
important observation that applies to the entire show, especially the 'or at least on their worst instincts' part.
Throughout the episode, many people seem to be acting on their more unfiltered thoughts, thoughts that they would
normally either keep to themselves, or phrase differently if spoken aloud. Early on, we first see this exhibited by the
police, when they speak of 'dispensing some justice', an apparent euphemism for busting some heads. Later on during
the confrontation at the Bronze, the police depart even more so from accepted protocols and threaten the protos with
violence even though ostensibly Faith is the only target of the moment. Hellmouth influence? Very likely, and what is
even more interesting is that the type of influence modulates depending on who it affects.
For most of the protos, it raises the levels of their fear and general sense of hopelessness. (Of the protos we know best,
Kennedy and Amanda seem to be the least affected but it's still there). The same could be said for Giles and Anya, each
of whom tends to manifest their insecurities in ways that relate to their individual characters. Andrew feels that he
doesn't get any real respect from the remainder of the household (except possibly from Dawn) and so we get the whole
Hot Pockets riff. Buffy may be affected, but I think she's already in such distress that the hellmouth energy no longer
counts.
Now, I could be wrong about this last point, because I am puzzled about why she seems so cowed by Caleb-- she
seemed awfully passive during the confrontation in the school. Is she afraid of attacking him more vigorously for fear
of what he might do to her friends and the protos in retaliation? Is she afraid that he might kill her and thus leave
everyone else defenseless? The same odd vibe struck me back in Dirty Girls, where she appears cool and
confrontational (and even ornery) on first meeting Caleb face-to-face, but then quickly gets this odd, almost fearful
look on her face as he presents the 'Truth' of his words. Why? What did she sense? Has Caleb been so invested of the
power of the First Evil that when she approaches Caleb it's like she is physically contacting the First itself? Dunno, but
sure 'tis odd.
As far as the Hellmouth energy goes, it's even more instructive to notice who doesn't seem to be affected by it.
Spike isn't-- he seems as in-control of himself as ever since his fight with Wood detriggered him. He confronts Giles
openly as to whether the Mission mission isn't another setup to get him killed, but he's matter of fact about it-- it's like
he isn't holding a grudge, he's just being cautious. He also treats the monk at the mission with respect and some actual
caring once he finds out that Caleb marked this victim also and that he's not another henchman.
Then there is Faith, who as previously mentioned has been a model of tolerance and reason, at least within the normal
constraints of her personality. I have to think that the protos and even Giles and Dawn (hardly members of the
Fans-o-Faith club) are subconsciously picking up on this, and the glaring contrast to the desperation currently driving
Buffy is what eventually directs them to give her a chance at leadership, unlikely as this seems at first.
Finally, there is Dawn, and here I can see that some-- probably most, judging from my perusal of the board over the
past week-- will emphatically disagree with me on my take. I admit that the point is arguable, but after several
re-viewings of Empty Places, I am still firmly convinced that for whatever reason, what Dawn did was the right
thing to do under the circumstances. There are several possible readings to support my contention, so here goes:
1. If the Hellmouth energy is predisposing Dawn to act erratically, why doesn't it show up earlier? Dawn has been solid
as a rock psychologically since around or even before Get it Done. Watch her actions carefully through all of
Places-- she's perfectly rational and focussed, always. What strong emotion she does show is totally reasonable
and proper for the circumstances, such as with her concern for Xander. She even keeps her head and doesn't break into
a snit when Faith tweaks her by calling her 'brat' or 'pipsqueak'.
2. There is the possible influence of the Joyce-vision from Conversations with Dead People. Whether or not the
vision was really Joyce or the FE is still completely ambiguous at the present moment, but right now I'm leaning more
towards it being the real Joyce. A lot hinges on whether the moment when Dawn tells her sister that 'she can't stay
here' was what the vision intended to have happen. If the vision was the FE, then presumably driving Buffy off was the
goal. If the vision was really Joyce's spirit manifesting itself, then the warning to Dawn about 'choosing' was also the
goal. How could these two goals be the same?
3. Dawn may have simply made the decision on her own, without either the Joyce-vision or Hellmouth influence taking
any significant part. It was obvious that Buffy wasn't going to back down because of what anyone else in the group
said-- she was utterly convinced that her plan, no matter how risky, was the right one. Just as Buffy saw the 'mutiny'
as throwing away all that she had worked for, Dawn probably saw the situation exactly as the others did, as another
trap or at best staggeringly risky. She took a chance that Buffy would listen to her if not to anyone else, because of the
blood relationship and the unquestioned love between the two sisters.
The above suppositions are more-or-less 'practical', non-metaphorical interpretations for Dawn's actions. On a
metaphorical level, there are additional factors to ponder, but before I get into those, here is one last related
commentary on the purely character-level motivational side of the issue (underline emphasis mine):
This is the way civil wars happen in real life. It's always the straw that broke the camel's back, not the anvil
dropped on your head. A few people always complain, but nobody listens (Anya). Then when things don't get any
better, people start listening to those complaints and lodging complaints of their own (the Potentials). Finally, the
leader crosses some invisible line and even her most valued supporters turn against her (Willow, Xander, Dawn). This
is true to life and everybody was completely in character. In this episode we saw a situation that has been building for
some time finally blow up. It blew up, not because Buffy got two people killed and Xander maimed, but because of
a tactical disagreement that she wouldn't back down on. The proverbial straw. With Faith there as the catalyst it
was a forgone conclusion in a real life context, not just in the metaphorical sense. Personally, the thing that surprised
me was not that Dawn would stand against her sister, but that she would have the guts and brains to actually kick her
out.
............ Traveler, ( on 04/30/03 )
'Nuff said on that, now to some metaphorical interpretations. (The layers of meaning piled on this key scene are
astounding-- I'm still in awe over it. Whether or not one accepts the depicted characterizations as being logical or
believable, the array of metaphors were beautifully crafted. I'm going to start by quoting myself here, from an earlier
post:
Forget for the moment my theory about Dawn being Faith, literally or metaphorically. After all, I'm taking the
'grand overview' or 'fourth wall' position, which isn't valid if one is considering Buffy's POV within the episode. How
does Buffy see Dawn? Go back to The Gift:
Buffy: "She's me. The monks made her out of me."
Buffy sees Dawn as her future, her potential, the chance to be all that she has been unable to be, to achieve. Dawn is
Buffy's sister, but she is also her child, and thirdly (metaphorically) a key that breaks down walls.
So, your sure-fire 'instinctive' plan is being harshly questioned, literally everyone is disagreeing with you, but you put
them off because you believe that they are 'not watching your back'. Then, 'you' approach you, and say, firmly and
without hesitation that you are wrong.
Oh my. Now just how do you argue with yourself-- your better self?, as you internalize it?
I apologize now for those who are tired of hearing my Dawn = Faith + Buffy schtick, but one again the evidence seems
to point in this direction. For the third time this year (that I can recall for certain), we got to see the curly-haired Dawn
version in a scene where she behaves much more assertively than is the norm. (Actually, if I really wanted to nitpick
continuity issues, I find it intensely odd that with apparently a moment's notice Dawn can go from straight locks to
wavy ones, but stranger things have happened in the Buffyverse. I also pause to note that if I had started discussing
metaphors and hairstyles within the same sentence just a few years ago, I would have considered it inarguable evidence
that I'd gone completely 'round the bend. How things change...)
Another interpretation of the scene between Buffy and Dawn is that since Faith cannot convince Buffy that her plan is
highly questionable, Dawn must take Faith's place. When the Protos bring up the issue of electing a new leader, and
choosing Faith as that individual, Buffy immediately lashes out at Faith both by bringing up her nefarious past and also
alluding to Buffy's failure to show everyone a good time 'with the dancing and drinking and all' (paraphrasing). Buffy
knows subconsciously that this argument is a weak one-- after all, she has given great deference to Spike, who was a
far greater purveyor of evil works for far longer than Faith was even alive. If she accepts that Spike deserves
consideration for his redemptive efforts, she can't very well deny the same treatment for Faith. Faith, past turn to the
dark side or no, is a Slayer-- a sister-in-arms. Buffy also understands the effects of dealing with her own darkness over
the last seven years. (Faith gets in a first-class retort when she points out Buffy's failure to learn all the Proto's names).
No such excuse can hold with Dawn, so when Dawn steps forward supporting Faith's argument, there is no where for
Buffy to retreat.
I do want to make it entirely clear that I do not blame Buffy for what she attempted to do-- she was only trying to do
what she thought was right, dangerous or not. After all, the fate of the world is at stake, and Buffy does have a 6-0
record in world-saveage.
Oops... well, almost. Make that 5-0, since last year it was Xander who saved the world. An exception of note? I think
so. I think that last year's season ending was a preface to this years'. Make no mistake, I am certain that Buffy will
come through, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lesson to be learned is that Buffy really isn't alone, and that there are
others who can save the world besides her. Buffy will be the enabler this time around, not the be-all and end-all
of apocalypse abeyance.
Will that enabled one be Faith? Or Spike? Or Dawn? Or some combination of the three? We'll have to wait and see, of
course. In the mean time, anyone who questions Buffy's true motivations in Empty Places need only see the
closing moments where Buffy chokes back her pain from the betrayals just handed her, and tells her former enemy:
"Don't be afraid to lead them."
The dynamic between these two women is clear, and it's a very different one than it was before. The Slayer forges
strength from pain, and Caleb is a fool when he taunts Buffy by saying how much he will enjoy 'taming her'.
He hasn't yet begun to know the meaning of the word 'ornery'.
~ ~ ~
Okay-doke, the usual odds'n'ends, then the usual fork in it. Some favorite lines originally quoted by jenoff that were
big favorites of mine also (and borrowing his style, thank you kindly, my good sir):
"A refreshing loss of consciousness - it was very restful" - the real Buffy still there underneath the desperation
"It's my favorite of all my current bruises." - Faith being remarkably mature.
"Masterful." - Andrew on the legendary onion blossom.
"Tell anyone we had this conversation, I'll bite you." - Spike on the need for keeping up appearances.
"Run is a four letter word." - Andrew not doing that well as bad cop.
"It makes you luckier than us." - Anya so grotesquely off the mark.
"Ding dong the witch is dead." - Rona reeeeealllllllly making me want to slap her.
"Shut your mouth." - Dawn/Faith being mature again by not actually doing that.
~ ~ ~
The second most emotionally stirring moment in the show-- where Xander comes home, and Dawn suddenly rushes
over to embrace him with all her might. It's what Buffy would have done-- and of course should have, and all would
have been right with her and Xander. A sad, powerful scene.
~ ~ ~
Minor gripe-- the first time through the whole 'Hot Pocket' riff from Andrew, I missed that he said that Faith took it.
Then when she finally showed up just finishing it off, I laughed out loud because it was so like her old self in a tiny, far
less dangerous way. On a repeat viewing, I heard him mention up front that she took it, and I thought this really
defused the eventual punch line effect. A few words carefully excised would have made for a better joke, sez me.
~ ~ ~
Minor but very hearty laugh-- Andrew dutifully writing 'breakup sex' on the flip-chart, and the potentials moving
gingerly off the cot where self-same-sex happened.
~ ~ ~
Sad, powerful scene number three-- 'Counselor' Buffy, sitting at her desk in the high school, staring at a picture of her
and her friends. I'm starting to get angry when someone ridicules her counseling skills, because it obviously meant a lot
to her to be helping in this way. Caleb holds up the tradition, of course.
~ ~ ~
A really thoughtful post by Mystery here-- if you missed it, please dig into the archives and check it out, it's
very insightful regarding Buffy's 'superiority/inferiority complex' issues. I'll excerpt a few paragraphs to give you a
taste:
Date Posted: 10:27:51 05/01/03 Thu
Author: Mystery
Subject: Buffy as a troubled Perfectionist
Buffy is an example of a perfectionist. The perfectionist (especially an inward one) tells herself that she's not good
enough because she's not perfect, she tells herself she doesn't deserve the praise and gratitude, she doesn't deserve the
happiness, she doesn't deserve to be comforted. You see this from the very beginning, when she denies she has a
destiny, she complains at every turn that she can't do this. This is a result of her parent's failed marriage. Like any other
child of a broken home, she blames herself. If she had just been a good child, they would be too distracted to fight with
each other. How can she save the world when she can't even save her parent's marriage? She tried to be the perfect
high schooler. She organized dances, she had oodles of friends, she was a cheerleader, she did everything. But
becoming a Slayer throws this life into chaos. Her parents now began to fight over her deliquency. (...)
Someone or something picked her for this, and they had to have picked her for a reason, yet she can't see that
reason and she has to accept it as a matter of faith. So at this point, she needs to be The Slayer. It's her
validation. It's what makes her special. (...) The Slayer in her makes her an outward perfectionist. She's the only one
who can do the job. She's the only one who can make these decisions. She's the special one, not Willow, not Xander,
not Giles. She's the one who killed the Master, She's the one who came back from the dead. She projected this so
strongly to everyone that they even resorted to bringing her back from the dead a second time. She is The One. Yet at
the same time, she has this nagging feeling she's not good enough for the job. (...)
Joyce is telling Buffy, "Hey, you don't have to be the Slayer anymore-- Faith seems so much better suited for
the job than you are." Again and again, Buffy finds herself compared to her successors and for some reason or another,
it is told to her that they'd be better than her just like Cordy is more popular, Willow is smarter, and Xander is braver.
Giles and Joyce don't mean it that way, but all Buffy hears is "you're not good enough", no matter how much effort she
puts into it. Then Faith goes rogue, and all of a sudden everyone is backing her again. Yet in her mind is the seed, the
doubt, the thought, "They're just settling for me because they have no other choice." (...)
So here comes the belief that she didn't survive this long because of her skills and strength. She survived because she
was lucky. All these times that people attribute "Saving the World" to her, she had help. She wouldn't have stopped the
Master if Xander didn't help. She wouldn't have stopped Angelus if Spike didn't help. She stopped the Mayor because
her graduating class helped. She stopped the apocalypse in "Doomed" because Riley helped. She stopped Adam
because Xander, Giles, and Willow joined her. And immediately afterwards, she is chastised by The [First] Slayer (...)
[who] tells her she should have done it alone.
Empty Places is the culmulation of 7 years of insecurity. This is the point Buffy has been terrified of since the
beginning: Everyone finally realized she's not perfect. And they all turned away from her like her father did or they've
already died for the same reason Joyce did: Because Buffy couldn't save them. She's been able to save and protect
people she barely knew, yet she couldn't save those closest to her, those that mattered. Jenny died. Angel was sent to
hell. She tried to kill Faith. Joyce died. Dawn was taken. Tara died. Willow went evil and Buffy didn't save her. The
Potentials are still dying. Worse of all, Xander, the heart of the Slayer Machine, was horribly maimed.
Everything that was said to her by Rona, Kennedy, Dawn, Anya, Giles, Xander, Wood and Willow are all the things
she's been beating herself up for for the past 7 years. Those are all the weaknesses she's been trying to hide from
everyone. (...)
~ ~ ~
Mystery's post is a lot longer than this, but those are some of the salient points. As I said, check the archives for the
whole enchilada. Now I really am outa here, after two more closing comments. The first is one I've used before in a
previous review, a small gem copped from an otherwise very mediocre film, but it's still every bit as relevant. Then I'll
let Faith have the last word(s). See you next week!
*******
You understand nothing about power. Power isn't a measure of what you can dish out. Power is a measure of
what you can take.
*******
The question is, can you follow?
*******
[>
*** Spoilers *** for B7.19 and some previous BtVS eps. And puns. Don't forget puns. -- OnM, 22:38:42 05/05/03 Mon
[> [>
Re: *** Spoilers *** for B7.19 and some previous BtVS eps. And puns. Don't forget puns. -- Rina, 07:59:59 05/06/03 Tue
Excellent article. This convinces me more than ever that perhaps the First Slayer was right in "Restless". That, in the end, Buffy will have to learn to utilize her heart, mind, spirit and hands to defeat the First Evil's plans. However, I doubt that will ever happen.
[>
Excellent, OnM. -- HonorH, 00:16:35 05/06/03 Tue
This episode was too painful for me to watch again. Even if it hadn't been for my sister's wedding, I'm not sure I'd have done so. It hurts, but it makes sense, the way it hurts. It hurts because Buffy has gotten so far away from what she *really* does--stays connected, does the necessary, and leads by truly being a leader, rather than leading by Tony Robbins. She hasn't been connected. Her heart is nowhere to be found, it seems--except in those private moments, when we see it breaking. Something's terribly wrong this season, and it's all led up to this--the moment when Buffy is forced to walk away by those she loves most.
So what's to be done now?
[> [>
Ask yourself why -- lunasea, 13:54:02 05/06/03 Tue
Why is Buffy this way?
Buffy can't lead and the Scoobies and Potentials don't even know why. She doesn't believe she can win. A leader must believe this.
It is painful. It is supposed to be. She has been trying to rally the troops when she needs to work with special forces. The Potentials aren't an army. Rona was right. They are innocents looking for protection.
Buffy has to find her power and what it is for. It is reverse Yoko Factor. She is trying to use everyone when SHE is the reason the First is there. SHE is what will have to defeat it. She ALONE can weild it. We are so used to seeing the Scoobies help that we don't even contemplate that maybe Buffy has to do this one on her own.
She'll get her pep talk and find her power, but Buffy is the one that will have to do whatever it is she does.
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Re: Thanks, OnM...Happy Tuesday... -- aliera, 04:03:46 05/06/03 Tue
except this is going to niggle a bit...why can't I put a finger on the quote? Where did it come from?
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Re: Which quote? -- mamcu (the poster formerly known as luna), 12:21:43 05/06/03 Tue
Which quote? Get on the bus, Gus? That's from Simon's "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover," but probably general slang before that--but maybe that's not the one you mean.
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Re: Which quote? -- aliera, 05:39:23 05/07/03 Wed
Thank you for asking. No it was the power quote at the end...I think OnM had it in a movie review but I can't find it. And since I'm asking can I ask about your name? Indian? Numeric? I googled wthout much satisfaction LOL.
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Re: Talking Judas/Savior Thoughts on *Empty Places* -- CW, 06:35:53 05/06/03 Tue
Bad idea, right? Of course it is. All those years that Buffy was always right, and saved the day, and now it's wham bam thank you ma'm, get on the bus Gus? I
don't think so!
This part reminds me of that Ray Charles hit "Hit the Road, Jack!" which is an interesting song both in that the chorus gets the really memorable lyrics (the title + 'and doncha come back no more!') and the fact that the audience really gets the feeling that mabye the begging lead-singer's character shouldn't be forgiven. We know more about Buffy, so we have to be uneasy about her getting tossed, but as I've said before she really needs to get some perspective right now. Getting evicted may be the best way to get her thinking along new lines. People sometimes forget that in the early seasons Buffy does indeed frequently have bad ideas that a new perspective corrects (Prophecy Girl when she wants to just run and hide,which seeing Willow's fear corrects; and in "I Only Have Eyes For You" (see thread below), an ep where she starts out refusing to allow the possibility of forgiving herself, but James the ghost begins to change her mind.)
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Great read, OnM. And talking about coups... -- LonesomeSundown, 06:37:24 05/06/03 Tue
... there seem to be early signs of one brewing right here on the board:
I also pause to note that if I had started discussing metaphors and hairstyles within the same sentence just a few years ago, I would have considered it inarguable evidence that I'd gone completely 'round the bend. How things change...)
The hand/tentacle/other appendage of the Seventh Evil aka The Ineffable Honorificus is clear. She is making a move down the echelon by turning the Third Evil to the fash(ion)ist side of the force!
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I will conquer! -- Honorificus (The Ultimate Evil), 10:41:07 05/06/03 Tue
Yes! The Third Evil will soon be my disciple as he begins to understand that true evil lies not in blood rites, nor in bacchanals, but in the systematic humiliation of others via impossible-to-meet (well, except by yours truly) fashion standards. Soon, the world will be mine!
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Ahem. -- The First Evil, 12:56:17 05/06/03 Tue
Careful. The militantly fashion-less among us will fight for our right to look, well, unfashionable. And we have weapons.
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Noir to the tenth power! -- mamcu, 16:55:32 05/06/03 Tue
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I like your LJ icon! -- Honorificus (Fashion Plate Extraordinaire), 18:05:22 05/06/03 Tue
You can't go wrong with a little Faith. Grr . . . sexy! That, my dear First, is the definition of a girl who knows how to use Fashion to its fullest advantage. She looks incredible, especially when she's a little messy--or a lot. Just look at the way she chooses pants that hug her hips, tops that threaten to fall open in interesting places (yet somehow never do), and wears her hair flowing in free waves over her shoulders, looking like it sees a lot of conditioner and not much shampoo. It's daring, it's fashion-forward, it says, "Lock up your sons and daughters, because once I get to them, there's no going back!"
She is the ultimate, and she will be mine. Oh, yes, she will be mine!
Evil, skanky, and kinda gay, H?
Never skanky, ya nit. As for the "kinda gay" part, I prefer to think of myself as enjoying beauty in all its various forms.
I like skinny white boys with great singing voices.
Isn't that special.
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Hey, what can I say, I like a woman who can't be intimidated -- Masq, 18:16:46 05/06/03 Tue
Know what I mean?
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Your reviews are to Voy what blossom is to spring in England -- Tchaikovsky, 06:50:07 05/06/03 Tue
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Uhh... blossoms take up large amounts of server space?? -- OnM, now fearing England is stranger than he thought., 16:51:50 05/06/03 Tue
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You'd better believe it -- Tchaikovsky, 04:09:40 05/07/03 Wed
Blossom gets everywhere in Spring. Can't go down the road in England with out being confetti-ed on all sides with the latest white and pink influx.
OK, so that's not quite what I meant. But I'm always open to stretching metaphors beyond breaking point. And beautiful review, as always. One question. What is your intention after 7.22? If Angel is renewed for a fifth Season, might we have some OnM reviews on that series? Please?
TCH
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Re: You'd better believe it -- aliera, 05:35:06 05/07/03 Wed
It's funny you brought this up because I asked a very similar question earlier in the week. I had a sudden panic with the realization that the final few eps of Buffy also meant the final few OnM Analyses!
Ben and I have been in the process of trying to put together a letter (really a paper) to send into the school after the year is over about what we wish his English program would be and it has led to some curious and wonderful pieces on the pleasures of reading like this and almost by default some others on the joys and pains of writing like this:
Where do you get your ideas?
My most dreaded question-many authors' most dreaded question-because everybody always asks and there is no answer. I have no idea where I get my ideas. It's how I'm built. I have an imagination that gets sparked off by things, and produces stories. Everything that interests me feeds my imagination, and so I am in the extremely pleasant position of needing to follow my interests so I can do what I do, which is write stories. Having said that, it is brutally hard work, running a high-octane imagination and then sweating and grinding away at getting the resulting stories down on paper. I love my life and wouldn't want any other, but it is not easy.
How wonderful! Where do artists get the muse? What is it that makes some artists special? OnM seems particularly drawn in by Buffy. I'm not an artist of the sort just a viewer but I go back and forth between the shows depending on the story. Buffy was a bigger draw for me upto the Gift and I still feel (just on a personal level) that nothing will ever top for me the end of season two which left me in tears but somehow luminous. (Although I am very happy to give Joss the chance again this year and joyfully along for whatever ride he cares to develop.) What moves us is so personal. I know that I only read (and even more interesting draw) things that touch me in a certain way, certain faces not in the least always traditionally beautiful that reach out and seem to beg to have something told about them, something discovered and something perhaps only alluded to some magic or danger just beyond your perception to draw you in. Sorry, digressing! A friend gave me a book for my birthday on drawing and painting flowers. Lovely and expensive and very very thoughtful and currently gathering dust on one of my bookshelves.
and then this which I think might be why and how I love what so many people write here (and why my little feet keep travelling back even when I am in the process of shedding other sites and outgrown pieces of life.) I think this goes beyond Buffy:
Socrates said, "The misuse of language induces evil in the soul." He wasn't talking about grammar. To misuse language is to use it the way politicians and advertisers do, for profit, without taking responsibility for what the words mean. Language used as a means to get power or make money goes wrong: it lies. Language used as an end in itself, to sing a poem or tell a story, goes right, goes towards the truth.
A writer is a person who cares what words mean, what they say, how they say it. Writers know words are their way towards truth and freedom, and so they use them with care, with thought, with fear, with delight. By using words well they strengthen their souls. Story-tellers and poets spend their lives learning that skill and art of using words well. And their words make the souls of their readers stronger, brighter, deeper.
This is what OnM does. This is the trueness the gift that many people here have. I very much hope OnM keeps essaying too; I'm fairly certain of few things in life but one of those certainties is that I will be reading whatever he cares to write. ;-)
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That was wonderful... -- dream, 07:36:35 05/06/03 Tue
A few comments:
"A refreshing loss of consciousness - it was very restful"
Buffy really needs sleep. I'm thinking a prophetic dream (with the First Slayer, pretty please?) may help her find her way.
"Oops... well, almost. Make that 5-0, since last year it was Xander who saved the world. An exception of note? I think so."
I do, too. I am in complete agreement with your argument concerning the coming apocalypse. I also think the fact that she hasn't saved the world since she had to die doing it is vital to understanding her state of mind.
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The blinding of the one who see's......spoilers for Empty Places -- Rufus, 07:59:33 05/06/03 Tue
I harbor extreme admiration for the way this same tension is repeated throughout the program. One by one, each of
Buffy's subsequent interactions with the people around her set up the exact same dynamic. Buffy is so lost in her own
pain that it is taking all of her strength to keep up the appearances of being 'the leader'. It was difficult enough in the old days to look after the safety of her friends, who despite their willing acceptance of the risks of what they were involved in, were still ultimately her responsibility. After all, the traditional Slayer always worked alone, and Buffy has deliberately broken with this paradigm.
The thing I notice most about this season is the fact that old problems are revisited with more mature characters, doesn't mean they won't repeat some old mistakes. The First has been so effective because it has a way of wrapping itself in a loved ones form to get to a person, find their doubts, exploit their weaknesses or fears. There was a problem with Xander, he had a way of seeing things that helped keep the gang together, so where a talking mirage didn't work, a good hand accomplished. Caleb confronted Xander asking if he was the one who could see, before putting out his eye. Xander isn't totally blind, but symbolically he can no longer see exactly like he could before. Where a few words got the job done, it took the hand to get the one with insight off balance and now less strong cause he can no longer see things like he did before. At the end of touched Xander said that the solution Buffy suggested was "to the left of me", and that he just couldn't see it. Now, does that mean that he will no longer be of any use, or like this tempest, will he figure out how to deal with this latest apocalypse using not just his eyes but remembering his heart which is still intact?
As for Buffy...every year she flirts with going it alone, because that's the way she was built...feeling that need to fight the fight alone. Spike may have tried to get her to go into the dark with him in season six...but it's that pull that Buffy has to go it alone that will get her into a dark place....so, what will she finally learn this year?
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To Ruf and OnM:Hearts, Caleb...Metropolis...spoilers for EP -- s'kat, 08:46:53 05/06/03 Tue
First in response to Rufus's comment about Xander and seeing.
Last night I finally saw the newly restored version of the 1926 film Metropolis, which oddly enough or maybe not so oddly ;-) reminded me of BTVS this year.
In the film, there is a battle between the workers who keep the city functioning in the lower depths and the employees who live in the upper reaches. The master of the city, who runs it, or the "head" won't discuss the needs or desires of the city with the "hands", the workers who run it. A beautiful and spiritual woman named Maria attempts to reach the hands down in the belly of the city. She says they can only get their desires, better living conditions, etc by getting a "heart" or mediator to talk to the head and the hands. In the course of the film, a villainous inventor named Rottwang creates a robot and gives the robot the beautiful woman's spiritual likeness. Rottwang kidnaps Maria and sends this robot that now resembles MAria, into the depths of the city to get the workers to fight the head. Maria the spirit of the city is broken into two parts: a robotic witch - evil filled with Rottwang's desire for vengence and a spiritual kind woman who saves the children of the workers and encourages compromise.
The head's son - Josephat, falls in love with Maria, and at the end of the story manages to get the hands of the workers represented partly by Maria's brother and the head's right hand man Grott and the head his father - to come to terms. The very last words of the film are Hands and Head need the Heart.
This reminds me a lot of what happened in this episode and I think it's interesting that the shooting script of EP was changed to put the weight of the argument on the Potentials, Wood, Dawn, Anya and Faith and less on Giles, Willow,Xander. Some of the lines they cut, I wish they'd kept. Although they couldn't keep the one about Ben, since Giles hasn't confessed it to Buffy yet. But some did explain Giles a bit more. And the rift that has occurred between head and hands this season.
In many ways, S7 metanarrates on S3 - in S3 there was also the beginnings of a rift between head and hands - but the spirit and heart kept the two communicating. In Revealations, which reminds me a lot of Empty Places and LMPTM, Giles gets really upset with Buffy. Not so much because of Angel - but because of what Miss Post implies about his relationship with Buffy, something that Wes does again later in the year, and Prof Walsh does in S4, and Wood does in LMPTM. Ms. Post implies Giles has absolutely no control over the slayer - the hands. And is therefor useless as a watcher.
Ms. Post: You can't control your slayer. Revealations
Prof Walsh: Buffy is lacking a father-figure or man keeping her in line, disciplinary figure
Wood: Doesn't a slayer obey her watcher?
Giles - the head, mind of the outfit is cut off from the hands. But this is no big, since he was once before in Welcome to The Hellmouth and in Dead Man's Party and in
Faith Hope and Trick and other episodes. But each time he is, Willow and Xander do something that reconnects him to Buffy.
So what happens when the spirit has turned or is missing?
In Metropolis - chaos broke loose and the heart had to go fetch it. There's a scene where Josephat goes and saves the kidnapped Maria from Rottwang. His father, the head, saves her first, but the hands disconnected and confused by her evil twin try to kill her. So it is left to the heart to rescue her after the evil Doppleganger is killed. The reason Buffy didn't save the day last year, was she couldn't save her spirit - only the heart could do that by appealing to the spirit's better nature.
Now the heart has been damaged. It's ability to see compromised. It no longer has blind faith in the hands.
The hands no longer have faith or want to be the tools of the head. And the spirit is insecure about itself and relying on others ideas. (As we see with Willow continuously standing behind Kennedy.)
The hands at the end of Empty Places stands outside its heart, head and spirit. Alone. With someone elses hands in its place.
This reminds me of Lessons - where Buffy keeps fighting and confronting three vengeance spirits - a janitor - representative of head (head of school in the sense he maintains it and yes the pun), a girl killed by a werewolf (spirit), and a scorned boy with his left eye pierced by a pencil who hits on her sister (the heart). She's fighting them on two levels - one to rescue Dawn and her two friends and one to see what lies behind the door that hides Spike.
Wondering if that holds some significance?
In response to OnM's question about Caleb. Why is Buffy so afraid of him?
Because Caleb represents the things that have always scared Buffy the most. And this is what empowers Caleb. Of all the big bads the one that scared Buffy most really was the Master. Who in some ways is the vampire version of Caleb.
Glory didn't scare Buffy, Buffy's potential failure towards Dawn did. Angelus didn't scare her, her guilt regarding his appearence did. Willow didn't scare her, her guilt and responsibility regarding Willow did. The Master scared her.
Why? I think the answer lies in Nightmares. In the section with Hank. And for that matter in CwDP with Holden Webster.
And in Helpless when she is begging Giles to take her to the ice show. It's the fear that she is all the things Caleb says she is. I believe for what it's worth and I could be wrong about this, that Caleb is the projection of everything Buffy hates and fears about herself and men in general. What she believes men see her as. He is the culmination of her fears about authority figures. Her inability to handle her feminine side. Her own dark energy.
And her fear that she really is just cursed and beneath everyone. I think Caleb represents the inferiority/superiority complex. And the reason he has so much power - is she has given it to him. She believes deep down inside the things Caleb says to her - they are in a way the whispers of her own subconscious fears and desires.
Not sure if this adds anything.
SK
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Definitely adds something -- dream, 09:33:16 05/06/03 Tue
I like your take on why Caleb frightens Buffy.
One quibble: I'm surpirsed you say that Giles is out of touch with Buffy in Dead Man's Party, and Willow and Xander reconnect him. I've always thought that Giles was the one who dealt with Buffy's return the best.
I also think it mkes sense that Willow, Xander, and Giles would let the Potentials, Anya, and Wood take the lead in the "mutiny" on Buffy. The Scoobies really love Buffy deeply and don't want to have to go up against her, but feel they have to. The others resent Buffy for various reasons. The Scoobies can lend their support to the others' complaints quietly, out of respect to Buffy. The way it was written originally would have been a little too hard to come back from - especially for Giles. Though I did like Willow's emphasis on Buffy's need to rest.
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Re: Definitely adds something -- s'kat, 09:52:55 05/06/03 Tue
Thanks, dream.
One quibble: I'm surpirsed you say that Giles is out of touch with Buffy in Dead Man's Party, and Willow and Xander reconnect him. I've always thought that Giles was the one who dealt with Buffy's return the best.
Good point. I did too. Except...Willow and Xander confront Buffy on their feelings regarding her behavior, while Giles remains somewhat silent regarding why she left and when I read this with the rest of the season, I'm wondering if it doesn't mean something. He doesn't confront her about what happened with Angel or in Becoming really until Faith, Hope and Trick and then again regarding Angel in Revealations.
So in a way Giles' connection to Buffy in DMP is a mislead.
It's odd how the writers do this - the characters that are closest to each other in the beginning of the season are often furtherest apart at the end and the characters furtherest apart at the beginning are closest at the end.
(Oh btw, am enjoying S3 much more on my current re-watching of it...It really does dove-tail nicely with S7. The two seem to shadow each other in interesting ways.)
Example in S3- Buffy/Willow/Xander aren't communicating well in the beginning - they are completely together at the end. Xander/Cordy are together in beginning - not at the end. Buffy/Angel start off parted but really reunite, kissing ...very close and at the end Angel leaves town.
Same thing this year: Buffy/Xander/Dawn are a unit. Willow, Anya, Spike are outside it. Giles isn't even in town nor is Faith. Now, there's a rift between the B/X/D unit. Giles is living in the house. Willow and Xander are tight. Anya is closer to Xander in some ways than she was in the beginning.
And spike/Buffy are tight.
I also think it makes sense that Willow, Xander, and Giles would let the Potentials, Anya, and Wood take the lead in the "mutiny" on Buffy. The Scoobies really love Buffy deeply and don't want to have to go up against her, but feel they have to. The others resent Buffy for various reasons. The Scoobies can lend their support to the others' complaints quietly, out of respect to Buffy. The way it was written originally would have been a little too hard to come back from - especially for Giles. Though I did like Willow's emphasis on Buffy's need to rest.
Agree. Xander's words are really harsh in the shooting script. I liked Willow's though, even if they seemed a tad redundant, she kept repeating herself. And Faith echoes her.
I wish they'd kept a little of Willow's speech regarding rest and cut the whole "It's my house too" line from Dawn, I'm willing to concede it was in character, but unnecessary and just bugged me. Her speech would have worked fine without that. Giles? I think you're right if they went too far, there'd be less coming back from it. No, all in all, I prefer the version we saw to what was in the script. Which actually has been how I've felt about all the shooting scripts that I've read.
One thing...is it just me or have the writers left more unresolved at the end of each episode this season than in previous seasons? I feel as if I've been waiting forever to see certain sub-plots resolved. ie. Giles/Buffy rift, Spike/Giles problems (although that may just have always existed), Xander/Anya, etc.
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Yes, they are leaving things more open -- dream, 10:48:29 05/06/03 Tue
Everything drags on longer. In a way, this may reflect the age of the characters. When you're a high-school freshman (and every night seems like the end of the world), big events can develop and conclude in days. As you get older, things slow down. (Though time speeds up, strangely. I guess it's because the days tend to be more the same - work, home, work, home.) The overall lack of little monsters this season has added to this feeling -we're still worried about the First, all these episodes in. Again, it makes sense - in high school, you are worried about a date one week, an exam the next, a fight with a friend the next. As a young adult, you can feel like you're always fighting the same demons - the career you can't seem to find, or the relationship that doesn't end but doesn't get better either, or the money that never seems to be there. Or just the big questions: what am I doing with my life?
I don't feel Xander/Anya is unresolved, though. Maybe there's more going on (the mention of the break-up sex seemed to imply that something was less resolved than it once seemed), but I really thought they were done as a couple and had started down the difficult road to friendship. I don't feel like I need anything else addressed between the two on them. Now, Giles/Buffy - that's another story...
Glad you're enjoying season three more. It never fails to knock my socks off.
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There Ain't No Cure for the Summers Time Blues (more thoughts about 'Empty Places') -- cjl, 09:33:52 05/06/03 Tue
SUMMERTIME BLUES
(Eddie Cochran - Jerry Capehart)
EDDIE COCHRAN (LIBERTY 55144, 1958)
I'm a-gonna raise a fuss, I'm a-gonna raise a holler
About a-workin' all summer just to try to earn a dollar
Well one time I called my baby, tried to get a date
My boss says, "no dice son, you gotta work late"
Sometimes I wonder, what I'm a-gonna do
But there ain't no cure for the summertime blues
Oh well my main and papa told me
Son you gotta make some money
If you wanna use the car to go ridin' next sunday
Well I didn't go to work, told the boss I was sick
"Now you can't use the car 'cause you didn't work a lick"
Sometimes I wonder, what I'm a-gonna do
But there ain't no cure for the summertime blues
I'm gonna take two weeks, gonna have a fine vacation
I'm gonna take my problem to the United Nations
Well I called my congresman and he said quote
"I'd like to help you son, but you're too young to vote"
Sometimes I wonder, what I'm a-gonna do
But there ain't no cure for the summertime blues
Eddie Cochran, one of the great "rockabilly" guitarists (the direct ancestor of Brian Setzer and the Stray Cats), influenced dozens of British kids with a six-string, including such immortals as Paul McCartney and Pete Townshend. The Who covered "Summertime Blues" on their smokin' 1970 live album "Live at Leeds," with Roger Daltrey handling lead vocals and drummer/lunatic Keith Moon contributing the scratchy, basso profundo Voice of "The Man" in each verse. If you're a fan of rock and roll AT ALL, pick up the recently released double CD of the "Live at Leeds" shows, featuring the complete performance of the Who's rock opera "Tommy" on the second disk.
Minor point: I always thought Eric Clapton wrote "Can't Find My Way Home" for Blind Faith, and bandmate Steve Winwood just sang lead vocals. But I've seen both men credited, so I'll have to check my vinyl to be sure.
[OnM to Masq: "I think we've just met cjl's evil alter-ego. It's a rock critic--and it's more terrifying than anyone could have ever imagined...."]
******************
OK, now that I've given my inner demon its due, on to the episode. I'm not going to repeat my complaints about the climactic scene of last week's ep, because whining about the characters for a third consecutive post doesn't interest me. My complaints still stand, but I've got other turf to cover:
1. BUFFY STEPS DOWN--AND OUT THE DOOR. Best thing that ever could have happened to the girl. She clearly wasn't comfortable as The General, a position she never wanted, which came complete with a emotionally detached approach towards leadership that was clearly ripping her apart. Buffy wanted to run over to that hospital bed and hug Willow and Xander until their internal organs screamed for mercy--but no, she had "responsibilities." Buffy's hospital bailout was completely antithetical to the principles that served her so well in the first five seasons. You always have time to share your love for your friends, because that's what you're fighting for. Lose that connection, and the Humanity you're protecting is little more than an abstract principle--just as it is (was) for the Watchers. And we know what happened to them.
2. GOT SO MUCH STRENGTH, I'M GIVING IT AWAY. That phrase sounded so warm and generous when Buffy said it to Willow in "Same Time, Same Place," but I wonder if she's giving a little too much of her strength away. She allowed Giles (who's obviously freakin' brain dead--oops, sorry, couldn't help myself) to dictate the terms of the fight against the First Evil ("you're our only hope and only plan"--but hey, no pressure), she's swallowed the "all that matters is the Mission" line from Wood with nary a moment of self-reflection, and now she's let the Scoobies and the Potentials kick her out of her own house! At this point, does Buffy even remember how to tap into the true source of her strength? Maybe in her solo wanderings/walkabout/vision quest, she'll have a "Restless"-type dream that sparks her inner fire. (If Joss has the budget for it, that is.)
3. CALLING HOLDEN WEBSTER. The Scoobies have had a parting of the ways, and Buffy is all alone against the cruelties of the world and the big honking evil about to destroy the world. So what else is new? We had Scooby splittage at the end of Becoming, Yoko Factor, and now Empty Places. You'd think they would have resolved to keep the lines of communication open after incidents One and Two; you'd think they would have seen the signs of the newest group dynamic disaster; you'd think they would have seen a group therapist by now. Are you sure these kids are from California? Can't travel a square block without hitting some form of therapist:
XANDER: I had no idea. I mean, I had an idea, but I'm not used to somebody else actually SAYING it.
HOLDEN: Classic case of parental abuse. Psych 101 stuff. I'm surprised you guys haven't talked about it more.
XANDER: Not something you bring up in daily conversation.
BUFFY: Actually, you brought it up all the time.
WILLOW: But we weren't much for the listening.
XANDER: I wasn't exactly drowning you two in sympathy when your parents loaded up the Psychosis Wagon.
[Willow, Xander, and Buffy do the group hug thing. HOLDEN smiles.]
HOLDEN: That's terrific. You know, I get a great deal of professional satisfaction when I see you guys together like that. Of course, as one of evil undead, I long to rend the flesh from your bones and feast on your entrails--but hey, that's the trade-off.
Great post, as usual, OnM. Guess we gotta agree to disagree on this ep, but if we didn't have disagreements on this board, we'd get too complacent and we'd be easy pickings for internet vampires.
Rock on!
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'Are you sure these kids are from California?...' -- Kate, 10:08:11 05/06/03 Tue
Can't travel a square block without hitting some form of therapist
OMG, cjl!! That comment is so hystical. Thanks for the bit of laughter!! Also, fantastic post. Just wanted to say I agree with each of your three points completely, but especially points 2 and 3. Thanks for the great perspective. :)
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Would you sing 'Hot Times in the Summer' next? -- WickedBuffy, 14:40:53 05/06/03 Tue
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Not here. I'll be doing two shows a night at the Board Meet. I also do requests. -- cjl, 21:17:56 05/06/03 Tue
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Don't know what a boardmeet is. When do you play Vegas? -- WickedBuffy, 08:59:43 05/07/03 Wed
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Accckkk! That's what happens when posting so very late at night after a long workday! -- OnM, 07:37:41 05/07/03 Wed
Mea maxima culpa re: Summertime Blues. What bugs me is that I even strongly suspected that Townshend didn't pen the thing, that it was a cover, and I was going to go upstairs to my vinyl library and try to verify that.
But, my record collection is no longer in a nicely organized alphabetical fashion, and I was tired and figured I'd get to it later on. Then I posted before doing the fact-checking. My thanks to you for the correction-- when the review eventually gets up at the ES site, I'll correct the attribution.
Re: Winwood vs. Clapton, I too thought this was a Clapton tune, and maybe it is, but this is one that I did check on, and the site I visited for the lyrics credited Winwood. If anyone knows for sure for certain, please clue me, OK?
Agreeing to disagree: Yep, that's about it. The simple fact is that different people see different things, and what is out of character for one viewer is in for another. Sometimes I change my mind after reading another poster's opinion, but this is one of those cases where I just kept seeing it the same way no matter what. You'll have this... ;-)
You'll note that I did allude to your posted comments about the perfection of the metaphors in this scene-- I was hoping you'd catch it even though I didn't call you out by name.
Re: your itemized points above, big agreement on #1.
*** Buffy's hospital bailout was completely antithetical to the principles that served her so well in the first five seasons. You always have time to share your love for your friends, because that's what you're fighting for. Lose that connection, and the Humanity you're protecting is little more than an abstract principle--just as it is (was) for the Watchers. And we know what happened to them. ***
Amen to that-- couldn't have said it better.
Thanks for reading my stuff, I always enjoys yours a great deal also.
:-)
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You've sent my mind into a tizzy all over again! -- Kate, 09:52:48 05/06/03 Tue
OnM - thank you for such a well-thought out post. Whether I agree with all of it or not, you definitely deserve the credit for a well prepared and supported arguement that makes for a stimulating read and has made me look at "Empty Places" from another angle again - and that is always a good thing. But there was one paragraph of your post that got me really thinking in particular and to which I have my own (correct or not) answer to.
Buffy may be affected, but I think she's already in such distress that the hellmouth energy no longer counts.
Now, I could be wrong about this last point, because I am puzzled about why she seems so cowed by Caleb-- she
seemed awfully passive during the confrontation in the school. Is she afraid of attacking him more vigorously for fear of what he might do to her friends and the protos in retaliation? Is she afraid that he might kill her and thus leave everyone else defenseless? The same odd vibe struck me back in Dirty Girls, where she appears cool and
confrontational (and even ornery) on first meeting Caleb face-to-face, but then quickly gets this odd, almost fearful
look on her face as he presents the 'Truth' of his words. Why? What did she sense? Has Caleb been so invested of the
power of the First Evil that when she approaches Caleb it's like she is physically contacting the First itself? Dunno, but sure 'tis odd.
So your basic question (if I'm understanding this correctly) is why is Buffy so afraid of Caleb? Why does she let him cower her so? My answer and my interpretation of what Buffy is feeling and what is going through her mind dates back to last year and the dispair, depression and level of self-hatred she felt after being returned from Heaven. I will fully admit that this is my interpretation of her character and while there may not be direct imperical evidence from season 6 & 7 episodes, I think that that is half the point of watching Buffy - to take the story and come to ones own conclusions.
So with that disclaimer, what are my conclusions? I think basically it comes down to the slow erosion of Buffy's self-confidence over the past two seasons. Just listing all the Buffy has been through - being yanked from Heaven by her well-intentioned friends, digging her way out of her grave, being forced back into dealing with real life without a parental figure for guidance, Giles leaving, Doublemeat Palace, her abusive relationship with Spike, Willow's magic problems, watching Xander and Anya's relationship - her beacon of hope for good relationships - fall apart, Tara's death, her own shooting, the attempted rape, Willow trying to destroy the world, Spike's return - with a soul, not saving Cassie, being responsible for not just one teenager but tens of them now, finding out that she got her couseling job not b/c of her abilities but because Wood wanted a 'slayer' (read: not Buffy specifically) around the school for insurance, her view of Giles' betrayal regarding Spike and finally the First Evil and you gotta wonder why she hasn't collapsed before this. Yes, Buffy has been though a lot in the past and has had to deal with amazingly difficult personal and professional situations (Angel/Angelus, Joyce's death, Glory, etc), but the difference between now and then is the sheer number of obstacles that have been thrown at her and the fact that back then her support system was more or less intact - her and the gang were friends who trusted one another and while a bump here or there may have shaken things up, their trust in one another was, essentially, unbreakable. Right now, Buffy doesn't think/doesn't see that she has that in her life. [Side note: In some ways she is right. I don't think everyone has fully recovered from last year, which only adds to the tension between them. If the First hadn't appeared then maybe the Scoobies would have had a chance to rebuild their 'family,' but of course evil didn't take a break and any progress they were making (i.e. Willow and Buffy at the end of 'STSP' or Buffy training Dawn) came to a halt.] Plus, the guilt of failure weighs heavily on her...as the post you quoted from Mystery states - Buffy is a perfectionist. She believes she truly must carry the weight of the world on her shoulders by herself and when that burden begins to slip just a bit, instead of turning to her friends for help, she tries to straighten up just a bit further to maintain her grip, never feeling she can share that burden with others. (That idea delves into her superiority/inferiority complex issues, which is a whole other subject. lol) Only she can't do that any longer because whatever inner voice, inner confidence that got her through those difficult situations in the past is now clearly (imho) missing.
Additionaly, I find it hard to believe that the ramifications of the events of last year have been left there, especially not after we learned that the reason for the FE's apperance is because Willow, Tara, Xander and Anya resurrected her. For me, the one ramificationa in particular (and this is where I get much more into projecting my own thoughts and feelings on Buffy) is of Buffy being back on earth after knowing the peace and perfection of Heaven. Personally, I don't feel that this was dealt with enough last season, but putting that opinion aside for a moment, I begin to wonder what Buffy does think about it. Being the perfectionist that she is (and I agree with that point), Buffy has always taken her failings particularly hard (i.e. "I Only Have Eyes for You" - not understanding how she could be worthy of forgiveness with regards to Angel/Angelus). So then I wonder, does she see being taken out of Heaven as the worst failure of all? I mean, if it is as she told Giles that she was at peace, knew her friends and her sister were safe and that it had been her time to go, then why would she have been returned? What could she possibly been needed for? In her mind, she hasn't found an answer to that question yet. So then maybe it becomes, why wasn't I good enough to stay there? That right there would have to feel like the worst failure of all for Buffy. I mean afterall the good she has done, the people she's saved, the apocoli she's (along with her friends) averted, what more could she possibly do to be worthy of Heaven? Now, if her self-confidence wasn't already filed down to the bone as it were, these thoughts would be bad enough. But add that on top of her sorely missing inner voice/guidance and it is easy to see why Buffy has slowly been spining out of control and letting the enemy get to her so easily. Of course she can't be there for Xander, for Dawn, for the potentials because Buffy isn't there for herself. So maybe in this case the means do justify the end because if kicking Buffy out of the house gives her the chance to reconnect with herself so that she comes back stronger and better than ever, then maybe the pain of "Empty Places" will have been worth it.
Switching to a separate point of your post, I have to say I think my favorite observation is with regards to Dawn, Faith and Spike and how they are sort of the calm among the chaos. That these three are holding steady and strong emotionally and logically. I think you are so right about that and the significance of that is very important - whether we understand the why of that just fact yet or not. What is also interesting is the who - because if it were just Spike and Faith, then one could argue it has to do with redemption and already having been at the bottom. But that does not apply to Dawn. If that were the case, then Willow should be amongst them, but she's not, not quite yet I don't think. But looking at Dawn's inclusion, I think it's more about growing up and knowing with a certainty who you are and that is what Spike, Dawn and Faith now have. It goes back to self-confidence and finding that inner voice you trust, which these three have and I think that is why the Hellmouth energy does not affect them like the others. So I guess, it does relate back to my Buffy musings. It's about the power to believe in oneself and at the moment, Buffy doesn't have it so she won't be able to win. However, I know she will get it back.
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thanks for that - that was very interesting -- dream, 11:07:52 05/06/03 Tue
Link to Shooting Script for Buffy 7.19 'Empty Places' -- Rufus, 03:31:22 05/06/03 Tue
Psyche's Transcripts
There were some changes in the script...stuff left out..dialogue changed or dropped.
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Re: Link to Shooting Script for Buffy 7.19 'Empty Places' -- aliera, 03:50:40 05/06/03 Tue
Thanks, Rufus. Hate to ask but any possibility you could post a synopsis on the changes for discussion? (insert your own bribe_______ here) ;-)
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For one, the absence of... (ES spoilers) -- Rob, 07:12:32 05/06/03 Tue
...Buffy's final words to Faith at the end of the episode. In the shooting script, she just leaves. I am so glad they added in those final moments, because Buffy would have come across as far more cold had those not been there. We know how much she cares about these girls and her friends and family when she says these words to Faith. She reluctantly and sadly but with an incredible level of maturity passes her torch to Faith and even acknowledges that she understands that this is not how Faith had wanted things to turn out.
Rob
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I meant EP spoilers. I keep thinking 'spaces' instead of 'places!' -- Rob, 07:14:06 05/06/03 Tue
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Re: I meant EP spoilers. I keep thinking 'spaces' instead of 'places!' -- aliera, 07:57:46 05/06/03 Tue
Well as a concept I prefer spaces to places, an absence indicating a need or perhaps... a potential from a different POV...thanks to both (you and Rufus) for the changes since I can't print this out until later and I had a family thing and missed the EP so I'm script dependent for a while...visually challenged...
Mulling the changes. Do you guys feel it was mainly fine tuning then? Rufus, any refs that link back to the Gaia/or Hermit stuff from discussion a few weeks ago or other strong script refs or visuals clicking? Counting down... and does that feel weird to anyone but me? I'm sure it must. Thanks again...back to work now.
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All I will say is not yet.......;) -- Rufus, 08:02:00 05/06/03 Tue
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Some of the changes are spoilers for Empty Places script -- Rufus, 07:37:29 05/06/03 Tue
Faith at the Bronze with the potentials is changed and the bit Amanda says about Faith being cool is added and Faith's taking Amanda's drink and suggesting a 7up added.
A short conversation between Faith and Kennedy is gone.
Andrew's communion wafer story....gone.
Part of the first conversation between Faith and Wood...gone.
The converstation between the priest at Gilroy and Spike is a bit changed. The reference to the tapestry is gone.
The whole confrontation between Buffy and the gang at the end is changed and rewritten I think to make everyone look a bit more sympathetic. The kiss from Dawn is gone. The bit between Buffy and Faith right at the end is added. Willow, Xander, and Giles have been mostly left out of the end arguement, making it more of a confrontation between the potentials, Faith, and Buffy, with Giles, Xander, and Willow being rather wishy washy about their feelings....the reference to Jenny and Ben is gone.
The biggest changes are to the end and the exclusion of some of Faith's stuff. If people didn't like what happened in the finished product, I think the gang would have come across worse than they did...and Faith would have had a bigger part in the episode.
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Yikes! (spoilers EP) -- skyMatrix, 10:07:26 05/06/03 Tue
Just from scanning the argument scene, it seems that Giles comes off about 50 times worse, with Buffy right up there. I'm glad they decided to make everyone at least attempt to be rational. Although they clearly failed at many occasions, it doesn't look like they were even trying in this version. Not to mention, it's a completely different animal without that crucial bit between Faith & Buffy at the end. So do we have Joss to thank for the rewrite, as usual?
The virgin birth and the First Evil (not what it sounds like) -- fleur-de-lis, 07:01:27 05/06/03 Tue
Just a theory here, please feel free to post additional insight and comments...I'd like some feedback!
From reading the posts, it seems pretty much universal that the FE gains footing by sowing the proverbial seeds of discord in the ranks. Its power is unquestionably pretty much limitless (apart from that trifling little handicap of being intangible) however, it works by preying on our deepest fears and desires. Calling us to question the truths we hold closest, and the loyalty of those we love most.
Now, I know that generally the first recorded evil in history was murder--the slaying of Abel by his brother Cain. Look at it from another perspective...Cain was first motivated to commit the murder by jealousy and doubt. God blessed his brother's sacrifice and not his?! Did this mean that he, Cain, wasn't worthy or less deserving somehow? Did God love Abel more? In addition, how about (I know this requires us to fast-forward) the Virgin Birth? When Joseph first heard Mary's confession that she was pregnant--but had known no man--did he first feel delight that God had manifested himself? No--he felt doubt. Was Mary his beloved betraying him? Could her story be possible? It took a Divine visit for him to be convinced that this was indeed a blessed event and not somehow tainted.
Just a thought...I'm still turning it over myself, like a squirrel on crack. Plus I'm operating on severe sleep deprivation.
All new episode tonight!!!! can't wait
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Re: The virgin birth and the First Evil (not what it sounds like) -- CW, 07:11:53 05/06/03 Tue
As Spike told Adam in "The Yoko Factor," the seeds of discord were already there. It wouldn't take much to cause a split, if that was the FE's plan.
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true... -- fleur-de-lis, 07:19:26 05/06/03 Tue
true--maybe the First Evil doesn't actually have to DO anything. Just bring to light or remind the SG of what they're afraid of or what's been irking them.
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All Caleb has to do is tell the truth, as his weapon. Buffy isn't able to 'see' her truth. -- WickedJack 'You can't handle the truth!', 09:09:38 05/06/03 Tue
"Calling us to question the truths we hold closest"
Caleb is going to wield that like a sword and cut them to pieces. Unless Buffy gets on the Cluebus and starts using it herself.
Angel's re-ensoulments -- skeeve, 08:36:21 05/06/03 Tue
Angel has been re-ensouled three times,
once by the gypsies,
once by Willow with help,
and once by Willow by herself.
Do we know for sure that the same spell was used more than once? We never heard the gypsy spell. We know that Willow tried to use the gypsy spell, but do we know that she did? Something took over in the middle. Said something might have omited the happiness clause or otherwise edited the spell. By the time Willow does it again, she's an uber-witch. If Angel could be re-ensouled without a happiness clause, Willow could do it.
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Re: Angel's re-ensoulments -- maddog, 10:18:49 05/06/03 Tue
It took over, but it was still the same spell. That's why she was able to use it the third time.
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Re: Angel's re-ensoulments -- O'Cailleagh, 13:54:39 05/06/03 Tue
Of course, if Willow was any kind of competent Witch, she would realise that spells needn't be written in stone, it could quite easily be changed to exclude the happiness clause. In fact, why not change it to a blessing instead of a curse?
Interesting (ish) and trivial (very) sidenote. The prefix 'uber' (as in 'Willow is an Uber-Witch')originally comes from the North Turkish word 'uber', meaning 'witch' This developed into a number of related Slavic words including Upir, Opyr, Wampyr and Vampiru-all (obviously) meaning vampire. Just thought I'd mention that....
O'Cailleagh
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The Real Question -- Rina, 14:51:56 05/06/03 Tue
The real question is will a soulless Angel ever bother to win his soul back in the same or similar manner as Spike?
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Actually, we *did* hear the gypsy spell -- Masq, 16:29:57 05/06/03 Tue
They show the Romany woman doing the spell in "Becoming". We hear her incanting. She speaks the same words as the ones Willow uses in "Becoming Part II" and in "Orpheus".
This can be verified by looking at transcripts at Psyches site
The Happiness Clause? Still in tact. The writers must have some character-related reason for wanting Angel to be tormented and brooding all the time. ; )
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the tormented & brooding expression counterbalances the hair gel. NT -- bell456, 19:44:50 05/06/03 Tue
'Empty Places' Revisited, with Spoilers -- Darby, 10:45:41 05/06/03 Tue
Okay, Sunnydale, famous for absolute obliviousness, is emptying because the "Hellmouth is active again." Didn't we spend an awful lot of time being shown that the residents of Sunnydale pay no attention to the boogeyfolks under their beds, and now they're packing up and leaving town based upon what, feelings of uneasiness (the beasty quotient has actually been way down this year)? The term "Plot Device" springs to mind - the writers need the town empty for their purposes. I guess they have enough Slayerettes for all the collateral damage that's coming (and no, I don't know what's coming, except that it's gonna be big, expensive, and one assumes loud. Do we really want the show to end on an epic fight scene? Hope they do better than that...).
They use Clem to sort of justify the populace leaving, but what a demon feels and what a clueless resident feels shouldn't be very comparable - but hey, they got a chance to trot Clem back out! So, you figure Clem's off to tend bar at the new Caritas?
Crazy guy tells us there's just a "single step" left, a theme repeated elsewhere this episode. Is the mutiny going to be part of the plan or a problem for the First?
Who tipped off the cops that Faith was in town? Who would know, except for the Scoobs and the First, and who would be served by siccing the police on her - and how'd they know to appear in force at the Bronze, when it was a typically impulsive Faith decision to go there? Do we have to worry about Giles again?
Is Xander now representing a young adult who carries on reckless youthful behavior until it delivers some life-altering consequences? Nah, he's become too peripheral to embody actual metaphoral subtext, right?
So what's the sense in our Anya & Andrew Ubervamp update? I guess that the many-eps-ago vision of lots of creature feature rejects is actually portentious, but they'll be more killable this time. Does this mean that we're not only moving toward an epic fight scene, but a fight with the dullest Buffy villains ever? Maybe the throwaway "Sunlight still works" line will present a quick way to eliminate the minions and spare us mindless (ubervamps x Slayerettes = mindless squared!) carnage.
With what's coming, the Faith-Kennedy-Amanda scene in the kitchen might have worked better with Dawn included. Dawn has obviously become okay with Faith's presence (not enough to trade Buffy for her, ever, but that's already been a well-made point I semi-disagree with - more later), but a clearer indicator of that might have been nice. They did show Buffy drawing farther from Dawn, though, moreso than in the shooting script.
So what exactly was Caleb doing at the school, in the main office? And why was Buffy convinced that this made the school unimportant? Are the Bads figuring that Buffy has gotten brain-impaired enough to fall into a single-misdirect trap (Caleb tells her the school and Seal are important, so she becomes absolutely convinced that they're not)?
Wouldn't killing Slayerettes and poking Xander's eye out push enough of Buffy's buttons to make her react to Caleb viscerally, does he have to be so damn annoying in a bad-movie villain kinda way, still? And how many times do we have to see a variation on the hugely powerful, "No weapon forged, it took an army, yadda yadda yadda" kind of foe? Shove a grenade in an orifice and duck, already, okay?
Interesting that Giles has slipped back into the mentor / pseudo-parental role with Dawn. That also might help lead her to her reaction toward Buffy later. Giles, rejected by Buffy, seems more energized now to participate, even to the point of using Spike as part of the crew. It's interesting at how quickly he has gotten back into Spike's trust zone, though - Spike really does understand, better than Buffy does.
I'm trying to figure out the message behind the trip to the Bronze. Giles points out to Buffy (in the script, but not on air) that this used to be the way she did things, and it is - is it just Buffy the workaholic that's being commented on here?
And we get the first major reference to rest when Buffy comes home from the school. It won't be the last. Sort of.
Caleb and the First (why is it always playing Buffy now?) seem sure that things are going according to plan, with Buffy set to "walk [those girls] right into it," with a final "nudge" - do we still not know what "it" is? Is this something that will seem obvious after the fact, or just out of the ether? How does it relate to the thing that "only she can wield," which is obviously at the vineyard? My guess is that whatever the ancient Slayer sealed the Hellmouth with (a key?), Buffy or Faith (or maybe every potential left in the line) will have to work it for the mouth to reopen. They're leading Buffy to using it for their own purposes, but that's sure to backfire...
The shooting script does NOT have Faith taking alcohol away from Amanda - at what level was it decided that our resident Bad Girl wouldn't condone underage drinking?
Does it make any sense that Faith is totally cavalier in how she reacts to several armed policemen in a club full of Slayerettes? Her toying with the boys seems too much the old Faith, and if the cops had turned out to be legit, just what was the plan?
In the shooting script, the cops were supposed to quite obviously be a hit squad, but they wind up just being really pissed off. And Faith has way more trouble with them than she should - is she pulling her punches (probably - their blows don't seem to phase her much, even with the billy clubs, and the Slayerettes can handle them) or are they being strengthened somehow (either would be important to show), or is it just the classic variation of superhero abilities varying according to what the plot demands?
Faith gets a scene with Spike last week, with Kennedy and Wood this week. Statements to the contrary or not, I smell a surreptitious spin-off pilot being snuck in here, with some chemistry screen tests. Not all new shows come on in the Fall, after all, and Eliza's show hasn't been picked up yet...
The big climactic scene - Buffy wants to go back to the Vineyard. This must be what the First wants, and Buffy's too overtired to realize this. Reading the shooting script, I was amazed at how many times it was suggested that Buffy needed to rest, but only a couple of them made it to air. Too obvious? But lots changed from script to air, so maybe there's nothing to it.
In the script, with the references to how "strung out," "raw" Buffy is, how she needs "a siesta," it makes more sense for Dawn to send her off - relieved of all of the responsibility, maybe she'll be able to rest and come to her senses (maybe get a useful dream?). On screen, Dawn isn't demanding, she's imploring, she's looking out for Buffy, she's becoming Partner Dawn, seeing the Big Picture better than sis, and it sort of works. I think the "Witch is Dead" line is there for Dawn's reaction to show how hard it was for her to reject Buffy.
Ah, the countdown continues! So, are we there yet? I'm running out of snacks!
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Bits and pieces done just like I like them ;o) -- CW, 11:30:15 05/06/03 Tue
Plot devices - One of the things that cheapened "The Gift" for me was that stupid tower. One look at it and if your a writer you're thinking, well, why don't they just put up a placard at the base, "All fallers and jumpers must sign up here."
The show's not coming back. Why not tear up the street set?
Her toying with the boys seems too much the old Faith, and if the cops had turned out to be legit, just what was the plan?
The idea of taking her back to jail is little more than a joke from her point of view. And what could she do if they just wanted to take her to jail? Now that she feels more need of helping outside than of being repentent in prison, what could keep her in?
Thanks Darby.
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First speculation -- Malandanza, 12:13:59 05/06/03 Tue
"Caleb and the First (why is it always playing Buffy now?) seem sure that things are going according to plan, with Buffy set to "walk [those girls] right into it," with a final "nudge" - do we still not know what "it" is? Is this something that will seem obvious after the fact, or just out of the ether? How does it relate to the thing that "only she can wield," which is obviously at the vineyard? My guess is that whatever the ancient Slayer sealed the Hellmouth with (a key?), Buffy or Faith (or maybe every potential left in the line) will have to work it for the mouth to reopen. They're leading Buffy to using it for their own purposes, but that's sure to backfire..."
I have long thought that there was a significant connection between the First Evil and the First Slayer. We have lots of hints that the Slayer is related to demons even before the shadow men showed up -- Dracula suggesting that Slayers and vampires are related, Adam saying she's like him, a semi-demon, with his "is that a fact" remark, Spike asking "What kind of demon" Buffy is, etc. The demon essence the shadow men controlled had the look of a non-sentient or semi-sentient entity -- what one might imagine a "first evil" to be. Something with the impulse to destroy rather than a sophisticated Mephistopheles or nihilistic world destroyer. Just kill. So my current theory is that the First Evil is the power behind the slayer -- the demon with which the original WC imbued their first victim. The FE's connection to Buffy makes Buffy's form a reasonable choice for a default form.
Contributing to this wild speculation is the First's statement that she's tired of balance. Balance? When did the forces of evil ever need to worry about balance? Good isn't forever threatening to overwhelm the world and create a Utopia. The balancing has been done by the Slayer -- she alone must struggle to balance the hordes of vampires and demons. If the First is, in fact, the Slayer's darker side, being tired of balance would make perfect sense. Thus the plan to end the slayer line and free itself from the thankless task. So why so apocalyptic? I guess ending the world would end the slayer line -- but would unleashing the ubervamps do so? And does the First even want to unleash them (the shadow men sent the vision after all -- and they did not seem to have the best interests of the slayers at heart)? Maybe the big plan is to seal the hellmouth forever and only a slayer can do that. Eliminate all the demons, witches and vampires, and the Slayer (and the First) can finally rest. The Slayers only serve a life sentence -- their death wish (or is it the First's death wish?) eventually gets them off. The force that empowers the slayers serves many consecutive life sentences -- reborn after each battle, perhaps feeling just as Buffy did after being brought back, to fight the same battle all over again. Never winning, just trying to hold the line -- and all against its will. A demon Sisyphus rolling the same rock up the hill every generation, but never reaching the top. And unable to choose to do otherwise.
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Re: 'Empty Places' Revisited, with Spoilers -- WickedBuffy (my guesses & opinions), 12:43:26 05/06/03 Tue
"Okay, Sunnydale, famous for absolute obliviousness, is emptying because the "Hellmouth is active again." Didn't we spend an awful lot of time being shown that the residents of Sunnydale pay no attention to the boogeyfolks under their beds, and now they're packing up and leaving town based upon what, feelings of uneasiness ..."
Just in Sunnydale HS there were all kinds of extreme odd behaviours going on. A few weeks later, it's affecting the cops.... why wouldn't it also be extremely affecting the citizen themselves? Usually it's about what happens around them - now it's happening TO them. Makes sense to me to leave.
"...but what a demon feels and what a clueless resident feels shouldn't be very comparable "
I would think that a demon would be tougher about the influence than a regular citizen - so imagine how how more horrible it is for the citizens of Sunnydale.
"Who tipped off the cops that Faith was in town?"
The First would know. And stirring things up is what the First has been doing continually. It also continues the manipulation to separate Buffy from the others. Faith was typically being Faith, not too hard to read that one.
"Is Xander .... Nah, he's become too peripheral to embody actual metaphoral subtext, right?"
Either his eye is sposed to be some big metaphor, or, lack of depth perception will play an important part in the plot.
"So what's the sense in our Anya & Andrew Ubervamp update? I guess that the many-eps-ago vision of lots of creature feature rejects is actually portentious, but they'll be more killable this time."
Well, we saw what looked like hundreds of ubers milling around, right? But did we see them in perspective of anything? No. My guess is it's a huge buildup for us - and when the Ubers scamper out of the Hellmouth, they are only 2" high. ::stomp:: (Xander doesn't do well in this fight)
"...the Faith-Kennedy-Amanda scene in the kitchen might have worked better with Dawn included."
As proven in a later scene, Dawn was obviously in the bathroom obssessing with a curling iron.
"So what exactly was Caleb doing at the school, in the main office? And why was Buffy convinced that this made the school unimportant?"
Caleb is furthering the plan to alienate Buffy from everyone else, in the hopes of getting her to be on his side (either consciously or subconsciously). He's telling her the truth (his power) and she is denying it (her weakness).
"Wouldn't killing Slayerettes and poking Xander's eye out push enough of Buffy's buttons to make her react to Caleb viscerally..."
He's gradually scaring the %^&$ out of her. Have you seen the steady increase in her terror growing each time they meet?
"Spike really does understand, better than Buffy does."
Everyone seems to be understanding better than Buffy.
"Is it just Buffy the workaholic that's being commented on here?"
I think so. When she left the house, she went to her other workplace, school. The Hellmouth. Even when she says shes "resting" or taking a break, she's working.
"... at what level was it decided that our resident Bad Girl wouldn't condone underage drinking?"
Probably in prison, when she reformed and had all that time to think about the tings she'd done when she was younger that might have led to her "badness"... like drinking.
"Does it make any sense that Faith is totally cavalier in how she reacts to several armed policemen in a club full of Slayerettes? Her toying with the boys seems too much the old Faith, and if the cops had turned out to be legit, just what was the plan?"
Yah, to me it did - (all these are "to me anyway! imo) ... though she took them there to relax, she had to keep up some kind of nonwussy image to the SITs. Plus, she'd been in prison - maybe she was doing it out of habit. The cops weren't exactly acting right, anyway. But, Faith wasn't going to jail, no matter what they turned out to be, she'd decided that when she left it.
" .... is she pulling her punches (probably - their blows don't seem to phase her much, even with the billy clubs, and the Slayerettes can handle them) or are they being strengthened somehow..."
I think the First is strengthening anyone it affects, in the ways it wants. Maybe the cops were Junior Bringers - who knows.
"... and Eliza's show hasn't been picked up yet..."
::crossing my fingers and toes she ends up in a spin-off with Spike::
"...how many times it was suggested that Buffy needed to rest, ...
In the script, with the references to how "strung out," "raw" Buffy is, how she needs "a siesta..."
I go with the dream - the subconscious is very powerful and Buffy has learned a lot from dreams - it's also a way to "chat" with The First Slayer. Perhaps in her dream, she would gt a chance to rechoose the demondust event.
"...it makes more sense for Dawn to send her off...I think the "Witch is Dead" line is there for Dawn's reaction to show how hard it was for her to reject Buffy."
It showed Dawncoming into her own and *not* just 'the little sister'. Also, her hair was quite full and becoming - it made her appear more formidable. I didn't feel she was rejecting Buffy - she was using her power as an equal (finally) to voice the final decision of the group - that Buffy needed to not lead them. And, that Buffy was using too much hot water taking showers after her fights, leaving little for the others.
*These were my own personal thoughts and are not owned by Joss Whedon or Mutant Enemy or that Steve DeKnight guy!
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Re: 'Empty Places' Revisited, with Spoilers -- Dochawk, 13:47:56 05/06/03 Tue
Darby said: "Wouldn't killing Slayerettes and poking Xander's eye out push enough of Buffy's buttons to make her react to Caleb viscerally, does he have to be so damn annoying in a bad-movie villain kinda way, still? And how many times do we have to see a variation on the hugely powerful, "No weapon forged, it took an army, yadda yadda yadda" kind of foe? Shove a grenade in an orifice and duck, already, okay?"
I have the same complaint. Caleb is just an advanced human (unless he has some mayor to him and we don't know). But, we know that Wesley isn't against using guns. He killed Skip and tried with the beast. Buffy herself has used a rocket launcher and dynamite. Why not a bullet between caleb's eyes? Or blow the whole vineyard up with a tank (all that would take is a little phone call to the flower shop, they could even bring Riley back and really tug at Buffy's - I can't keep a man strings)
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Good point... 'WWRD?' -- WickedBuffy (What Would Riley Do?), 14:35:05 05/06/03 Tue
Interviews by Joss and Marti plus lots of other vampire stuff (No spoilers) -- botitas, 12:44:53 05/06/03 Tue
Just a program note: WE, Women's Entertainment will air a special May 28 called "Night Bites: Women and Their Vampires". Interviewees include Marti Noxon and Joss Whedon; as well as, Anne Rice, John Landis (American Werewolf in London, Innocent Blood) and David Goyer(Blade).
The special is to explored the history and lure of vamps. Oh, well it maybe something to watch while suffering post-Buffy withdrawl. DVD's only go so far.
Source Inside TV: The Dallas Morning News, May 4. TV week Guide pp. 26
Buffy and Angel - Why? -- Rina, 14:53:53 05/06/03 Tue
Why do many of you believe that Buffy and Angel were meant for each other and no one else? I would like to read a serious response and not the usual "they are soulmates" crap, thank you very much.
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They are heartpartners, Rina. -- contumelious, 15:09:45 05/06/03 Tue
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They fell in love at just the right time in their lives -- Finn Mac Cool, 18:55:53 05/06/03 Tue
When Buffy fell in love with Angel, she was at the stage when she was breaking out of being a shallow valley girl, but wasn't yet hardened by experiences as the Slayer.
When Angel fell in love with Buffy, he was gaining faith in humanity for the first time after two hundred plus years of not truly caring about anyone or anything.
But, now, both of them have come through a lot.
Angel's faith in his own redemption and the good of humanity has begun to crumble. Being manipulated by evil forces, discovering that redemption may never be possible, and finding out that he can never be truly happy without becoming Angelus once more, have taken their toll on Angel. When he fell in love with Buffy, Angel was possibly the most upbeat he'd ever been or ever has been; after all, he finally had a mission, saw hope for himself, and was falling in love for the first time. As Angel is now, he could never be as open to love and being loved back as he was then.
Buffy's life has also changed. While she was still hung up on not wanting to be the Slayer and getting new to her Calling, she was still a relative innocent. She hadn't been through sending a boyfriend to hell, trying to kill an evil Slayer, being ripped out of heaven, or facing more personal traumas and apocalypses than she can count. When Buffy first met Angel, the world still hadn't been overly cruel to her; her burden was relatively light. Present day Buffy has a burden of a far greater magnitude; she has seen so much and suffered so much that her willingness to love as she loved Angel is weak.
That, I feel, is why the B/A ship endures, and why, at least for some, it is hard to picture them with anyone else. When Buffy and Angel fell in love, they were both at the point in their lives when they were the most open to love. No relationship they've been in after that has ever granted them quite as much joy or passion as the one they had together did, because now they have been scarred by the world. They have seen darkness and despair and grief. Their ability (and willingness) to feel true love has been stunted by that. That is why, in the hearts of many fans, and, more importantly, in the hearts of Buffy and Angel, their relationship is the best they'll ever have, because they'll never quite get the conditions back to where they were, back to the fertile ground of hope and optimism that founded B/A.
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Because they are bound to each other through love and sacrifice (spoilers to AtS 4.15 and BtVS 7.19) -- RadiusRS, 19:20:19 05/06/03 Tue
It has been established in "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" AND "Orpheus" that, even after he regained his souls, Angel was still capable of committing great evil, the soul alone didn't guarantee goodness, it had to be a choice (which pretty much sums up Angel's arc as a character this season). After eating the Donut Clerk (played by Eliza Dushku's brother), Angel goes into a tailspin of guilt that leads him to the alley in New York where Whistler blantantly offers him a choice (and how fitting that this same Alleyway is the setting for the fight between Angelus and Angel, who, imho, were somehow merged into one psyche when the soul was restored). Whistler's "choice" turns out to be Buffy, who Angel first sees on the day she learns she is the Slayer, the day her whole self-identity is shattered. But Angel sees her strength despite her age, background, and youth, and realizes that, even if he thinks he's seen it all, the world can still surprise him. So he becomes Buffy's protector, she gives him the purpose he's been searching for since being re-ensouled; his first act when he "meets" Buffy for the first time is to give her a crucifix to protect her. But he realizes that he has fallen in love with her, and she realizes that because she is different and alone, she can relate to Angel in way no one else can and so falls in love with him, despite the fact that he is her mortal enemy by definition. When Buffy dies at the end of the First Season, Angel cannot save her and Xander must, reminding Angel of his true nature and setting up the fact that he can't have his cake and eat it, too; in a way, Angel might also feel partly responsible for her death because he failed to stop his grandsire. The fact that Buffy was a virgin the first time she died is often overlooked, but I think it deepens her heroism that she sacrificed her life never having truly been touched.
In the next season, Buffy deals with the consequences of her "rape" by the Master (for isn't that what a Vampire bite is? a metaphorical rape in which the victims not only loses their life, but can then become a monster as a result of the victimization?), but Angel continues to fall for her, and Buffy, being young and naive, believes they have earned their reward. But Angel's 250+ years around and the end of season one should have reminded him that he should know better than to think he could have his cake and eat it too. Buffy's love for Angel has, in his eyes, saved him from the path of evil, but he ignores the fact that he must constantly make that choice. When they succumb to their moment of weakness and Buffy choses to give him her virginity willingly and Angel choses to accept it, they sacrifice their hearts to each other with disastrous consequences. Even the appearance of Spike and Dru earlier in the season should have been a hint for Angel that his past was catching up to him. So Buffy deals with the consequences of her choice by estranging herself from her friends (in the first instance of a mutiny over Buffy's tolerance of her undead former lover despite his danger). When Angel's vampiric spawn Drusilla takes Kendra's life, Buffy feels she failed to give Kendra the tools that would have allowed Kendra to live up to her potential. When she faces Angel, unaware that Xander has lied to her about Willow's message, she again faces having to sacrifice the one thing that has been real for her in order to be true to her nature, echoing her arc in season 1. When the Mouth of Acathla is opened, she knows she has no choice, and despite the last minute reversal with the return of Angel's soul, Buffy must "kill" him, truly the one she leaves, despite his disorientation, and send him to Hell. This time, she so can't deal with the consequences of her actions that she leaves home.
Season 3 brings her back stronger than ever, and forces her to face the future, something she never thought she would have. It brings in Faith, the yin to Buffy's yang, so that she can deal with issues she has repressed since taking on the mantle of the slayer, and it brings back Angel, showing that she must still deal with her past choices. When Angel first returns, he is feral and we have no idea if this means he's lost his soul again or if he has it out for Buffy for sending souled him to Hell. But as his actions in "Beauty and the Beasts" attest, the hero part of him has survived the hundreds (or is it thousands? different episodes say different things) of years in Hell when he saves Buffy from Demon Steroid Boy. This has made Angel a different man while at the same time showing him that Buffy (the thought of her at least) has saved him once again from succumbing to his own darkness. When the First is toying with him, it wants him to bite Buffy, to succumb to that side of his nature. After Angel decides he must commit suicide in order to atone for his sins, it is Buffy who once again saves him, and shows a wisdom beyond her years that is supported by TPB's actions in producing the snowstorm that saves Angel. As the season progresses, Angel and Buffy realize that they are doomed to commit the same mistakes, at the same time that her crew mutinies for her hiding Angel and Faith goes to the dark side. When Faith shoots Angel with the poison dart (from behind a neon "Sun" sign) after Buffy and Angel played her with the apparent return of Angelus (during which Angel offered her the same sort of comfort he offered Jasmine, which shows he's learning), only the blood of a Slayer could save him. Buffy decides to go after Faith, but when that dries up, she must succumb to Angel's bite, a clear indication to both parties that, if they had any doubts, this should be enough proof that they will end up hurting each other again (ironically, the coma Buffy enters allows her to get the key to defeating the Mayor from Faith, who SHE put in a coma). So Angel decides to leave, making sure Buffy's left alone again, but graces her with one final goodbye, showing that he too has grown as a character. And if anyone doubts Buffy's abilities as a Slayer or General, the last episode of this season should be enough to silence all doubts and highlight Buffy's strengths.
When she gets to college in season 4, she is once again reminded of her lack of experience in the real world when she gets her arm broken by Campus Vamps and played by a lothario. In the meantime, she sends Angel a ring that will make him unkillable, and later on visits him. When Angel gets turned into a human in "I Will Remember You", he and Buffy receive the reward they so richly deserve. But Angel realizes it's not Buffy that has saved him, but his choice to love Buffy. He also realizes that if he chooses to stay human, one of the two of them will die sooner, because that is the price for their happiness. He realizes that, alone, they are both better able to do more good, so he sacrifices a real life with Buffy with the knowledge that there is the possibility of his reward, coupled with the understanding that he still has many sins to atone for. So now Angel has sacrificed Buffy and, at least on a basic level, understood that having her around is important to his redemption (as opposed to just having her). The great irony is that Buffy has never known what he sacrificed. When Faith returns in season 4, she serves to rile up all of Buffy's old insecurities as well as put her at odds with Angel. This is where her Judge Dredd phase begins ("I am the law!", echoing Faith's attitude when she killed Finch), which reminds us that she still has growing to do, and also shows us how she and Angel have moved on. The end of the season repeats the themes of fracturization ("The Yoko Factor") and reunification ("Primal") that have been in the show before. And the events of "Restless" dig deep into the fabric of the show ("You think you know who you are, what's to come. You haven't even begun.") as well prove to us that Buffy has always been a part of something greater (the Legacy of the Slayers), and that she is capable of redefining and maximizing her capabilities like no other Slayer before her. The end of Season 1 of Angel showed him remembering to make connections with humans in order to stay Good, reaffirmed his Faith that he can still find his reward, and brings back a huge piece of his past to remind him of his sins again.
With season 5 of Buffy, she now has Dawn, which connects her in a whole new way. So much so that when Dawn is lost, Buffy enters a fugue state. Once more the themes of love and sacrifice run through this season, especially in "The Gift", as well as reiterating Buffy's talents as a leader, and her ability to overcome beings far more powerful than she (well, actually, Giles finished up the job, and it was the one action that created the wedge between them that is so apparent in Season 7). She also proved her willingness to sacrifice herself (again) and die. But does she keep this reward? NO! Once again, with her return in season 6, Buffy has lost her reward through none of her own actions. She has yet been able to understand fully how responsible she must be with her pain, with her power. In season 2 of Angel, we see that he has made a Bad Choice again, but the results are completely unexpected. He turns his back on his friends, allows the Lawyer Massacre, and sleeps with Darla, but he doesn't lose his soul and (as we later find out) has fathered a child, a thank you from the Universe for proving his worth in The Trials. After this, he gets his wish to walk in the sun in Pylea, but the price is that it brings out the demon in him, which he is able to conquer, but returns home to find out that, despite his sacrifice, Buffy has died.
While Buffy is dealing with resucitation, Angel gets a blast from the past in the forms of James and Elizabeth, and begins to question his feelings for Cordelia, an action that could lead to the return of Angelus, since he has lost Buffy. James serves as a reminder of the past, a theme that comes to fruition later in the season with Holtz. He is once again risking the dark side by allowing his feelings for Cordy to grow. And right in the middle of all this, he finds out he's a daddy. In Darla and her sacrifice, he is reminded that he can be redemmed. And in Connor, he believes the Universe has finally given him a chance to love something, to have a real connection, without losing his soul. But his past destorys that too when Holtz kidnaps Connor. Angel once again resorts to darkness, fully aware of the consequences, and chooses to attack Wesley. When Connor returns the antithesis of all Angel wanted for him, it is the Universe reminding Angel not to look gift horses in the mouth and that every gift has a price that needs to be paid. At the end of Season 4, Angel is sitting in a box at the bottom of the ocean where he is teased by the sunlight that must filter through to him during the day and haunted by his past sins, in a place where he has no choice but to confront them (I doubt he had much of a chance to do so when in Hell as he was probably in survival mode). Meanwhile, Buffy has belong a season-long repeat of distancing herself from her friends, caused by her been there, done that attitude (I mean, she's already been to Heaven, what else could she live for?). This allows her the chance to get into it with Spike, who at this point has been reduced to Angel without the bite. It allows her the ability to explore the darkness she tasted with Angel, (mostly) without the negative consequences, the same darkness that Faith was willing to embrace and that Buffy resented her for, because she felt Faith had a choice in the matter whereas Buffy doesn't. By the end of the season, things have fallen appart within the whole group at a level that launches Willow into the role of killer and Xander into the role of savior, which allows Buffy to realize (on some deep level which she hasn't completely acknowledged yet (wait for tonight kiddies...)) that she is only human as well as a Slayer, that in this case she is neither the Killer nor the Savior (so who is she?), and that she must make the most of what she has, which is why she wants to lead Dawn into the world and teach her, proving she has been doing an admirable job in "Lessons" (which Dawn took to heart and demonstrated her understanding of in "Empty Places" when she kicks Buffy out using thr only real power she has so as to maintain the integrity of the whole group, Buffy has succeeded as a teacher as well). It seems to me that Buffy's true power is the ability to help those around her find their own power and put it to best use (Angel, Xander, Spike, Willow, Dawn and even Faith herself by the end of "EP" are all examples). Her being kicked out of the house shows much everyone has learned from Buffy's tenacity at the same time as acting as a device so that Buffy must, once again as she does every year, face her tendency to detach and feel alone. The one resounding message of Buffy is that she is not alone, that she only focuses on the "one" part alone with dealing with "al[l]" part. Willow started of the season by saying everything is connected, the one lesson Buffy still hasn't completely gotten. Buffy is willing to sacrifice herself, and agonizes when forced to sacrifice someone else. She fails to see their sacrifice as akin to her own sacrifices (a fact the SITs haven't gotten yet, but Faith has at least on some level). She takes all the responsibility on herself, and therefore sees herself as the only one willing to love the world enough to sacrifice herself for it.
On Angel, this season has been incredibly interesting. The themes of the past coming back to haunt you are very apparent in Jasmine as well as Wesley, Gunn, Fred, Cordelia, and Connor (sorry Lorne! We loves ya!). The whole Angel-Connor storyline has served to remind Angel of his own past ("Spin the Bottle" as well as many others) and his own mistakes. Yeah he has someone to love now, but that someone is also a living reminder of all his past evils. What Angel feared most, the return of Angelus, came to pass. The interesting thing is that he chose to become Angelus again (not without some reverse psychology prodding by Jasdelia), essentially, to face his dark side (somewhat literally in "Orpheus"). We are reminded that Angel the Good Guy has also commited sins that he has to make up for. The most interesting part of the season, though, is that Angel has realized on a higher level that love, too, can be destructive (much as he did in "I Will Remember You"), and that loving Connor isn't enough to save him, just as his love for Buffy couldn't save her. Twice. He is reminded, and perhaps consciously realizes for the first time, that it is our choices and how we deal with their consequences, that truly define what good and evil are. Buffy made the choice to be detached, she thought that, since she has acheived so much (and she has at that), it was a choice she could live with. But to everyone else, it justs seems like Buffy is running to one battle to escape another without dealing with her issues and choices. Anya was right about her feeling superior and her character flaws, but that describes an earlier Buffy and Anya herself more appropriately, which is perhaps why Buffy didn't tear her a new one. Anya chose her power after she was chosen to receive it because of her uniqueness for her time, and did her job as well as Buffy does hers. Willow has been understanding the nature of power this season and last and I think she feels that Buffy has been misusing her power at the risk of the group cohesion. Xander has also realized where Buffy is going and his injury gives him the authority to call it to her attention. Giles has been depowered by Buffy, but retains all his mental "power", which he uses to point out the very real flaws in her plan and reminds her of the consequences. Faith understands that only she can challenge Buffy because only she can truly relate, but still defers to Buffy's power, showing that she is indeed capable of learning the power thing. Which is probably why Buffy succumbs to a personal attack on Faith when challenged, because she's realized that even Faith can do the following thing. It also thrusts the mantle of power onto Faith by forcing her develop skills where she feels she has none. It also allows Buffy to symbolically pass along the Slayer mantle, thereby ending "Buffy THE Vampire Slayer" and making her realize that she is "Buffy: A Vampire Slayer". She needed to do this so she could realize she was both Buffy and a Slayer, part of a legacy and therefore, not alone, no matter what her comments to Holden the Vampire Shrink were. She needs to satisfy both aspects of herself in order to be whole, and the only person she's been able to do this with is Spike. Spike is different from Angel in that he pursued a soul; even as a demon, he chose to gain a soul for Buffy, saving himself through her, much like Angel. But the main difference is that, in the relatively short time he has had a soul, Spike has dealt with it much better than Angel did, despite insanity, a faulty chip, and the FE's tampering, which practically drove Angel to suicide. Perhaps it's because Spike has fed off one Slayer and killed another and Angel only fed off one that he has been more susceptible to goodness, that their blood somehow sparked his humanity (it would explain his connection to Dru since they both fed from the Chinese Slayer, much in contrast to the true nature of Vampires of being deceitful and unfeeling, Dru started behaving this way after getting a refuel of her own sire's blood, thereby possibly cancelling out any positive effects from the Slayer blood that Spike did retained), as well as give him an understanding of Buffy as both Slayer and woman, an insight not even Giles is qualified to see. He is what she had hoped Angel would be, and therefore has allowed her closure on the Angel issue. And he is what Angel should have been, so that they could be happy together. But Buffy and Spike's relationship started out with her using him, hardly the start of a "Love of Your Life" scenario. By now, Angel knows that Buffy is alive again and says hi, he has lost everything and realized he is still a good man. Which is why Angel should return to Sunnydale, to help save the woman who saved him through so much. Spike and Cordelia were secondary characters that came into their own, but neither of them was fit to fill the Angel and Buffy shaped holes in our lead characters. Angel still owes Buffy for showing him he has a choice, and she still owes him for showing her the consequences of her actions, and for awakening the woman in her. Complete enough for ya? ;)
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They fill gaps -- lunasea, 19:58:50 05/06/03 Tue
Buffy shows Angel that he isn't a monster with a beautiful gesture in "Angel." She gave him a chance to recover in Season 3, even when he came back a monster. She continues this in "Amends." She can see the Man in him like no one, even Cordelia, can. Angel is what he is because Buffy showed him himself through her eyes.
Angel is the same way. It was Angel that got her to see that she could have a life in "What's My Line." Buffy was ready to completely give up then and become Wishverse Buffy. Angel didn't let her. In "Helpless" Buffy is full of serious doubts about what she is. It is Angel (in a well written scene that is both tender and undercut) that gets her to see what she really is. Even after he leaves, it is Angel that returns in "Forever" to help Buffy realize that she is strong and can get through her mother's death.
Angel kept Buffy's heart alive. Buffy showed Angel that he had one. This is a beautiful thing. They make each other better people. In the words of Rocky Balboa they "fill gaps." They understand each other like no one else can. Others accuse them of being cold and don't understand the fires that are their ability to love that causes them to shy away from it. They see this and can help the other to deal with it.
There is a reason that Buffy has always been able to feel Angel when he is around. There is a reason that being with Buffy was Angel's moment of perfect happiness. There is probably a reason Buffy was in Angel's dreams in "Amends." There might even be a reason Buffy's ring figures into Angel's return from hell. They are connected on such an intimate level that it is often refered to as soul mates. This is symbolic of the connection these two have because they understand each other.
This is neither immature or codependant. It isn't first love. It is true love. It is ageless and timeless.
It is a beautiful thing.
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She is Stanley to his Stella -- Dandy, 20:45:58 05/06/03 Tue
Because there is parity and vulnerability in the relationship. After Buffy smashes the Master's bones she weeps in fear and turns to Angel. He takes her in his arms. She exposes her emotions and lets herself be comforted. Gives up control to him.
She is never able to do this again after Angel goes evil. Angel took her life force away and he is the only one who can give it back. There has to be a final reconcilliation for both of them at the end of the story. Hopefully Angel's finale. Or a film!
When Spike comes into the story he is more human than Buffy. He displays emotion. He is needy. His real quest is not the love of Buffy but the emulation of her moral center. Spike is not missing a soul. He's missing a conscience. Her attraction to him is as an Angel stand-in, the next- best vampire. She never allows herself to have a relationship with him. The character's interaction examines interesting questions about ways to be in the world but they are never a couple.
Buffy couldn't kill Angel until the fate of the world depended on it. Buffy doesn't love Spike even though he got a soul for her.
At the end of the episode where a newly returned feral Angel saves Buffy from the angry monster boyfriend, he falls to his knees and clasps her about the waist-the end scene of Stanley and Stella in A Streetcar named Desire. That to me says it all. This is a couple. Battered, angry, torn apart, dysfunctional, but very much together, forever.
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Re: Oops, meant she is stella to his stanley .................. -- Dandy, 21:08:57 05/06/03 Tue
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Honestly, i fell in love with that couple -- Terco, 00:08:22 05/07/03 Wed
it won me over when this show started in addition to the ass-kicking dished out.
I like Spike, always have, but "Spuffy" strikes me as unfair - why should it work for this vampire romance when it couldn't work for Angel & Buffy? The show needs to end with Buffy moving on to someone alive.
So, anyway, I don't think that Angel & Buffy are meant to be together anymore, but I'll always love that couple the most.
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I REPEAT: The show needs to end with Buffy MOVING ON to someone ALIVE -- Terco, 00:09:23 05/07/03 Wed
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Terco, are you spoiled too? I won't say what I'm thinking.*L -- Briar, 01:19:20 05/07/03 Wed
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Alone -- Rina, 07:44:10 05/07/03 Wed
I've been watching the early seasons of BtVS. Yes, it's obvious that Buffy and Angel loved each other. Yes, SMG and DB had screen chemistry. But I noticed that Buffy had fallen in love with Angel with the fervor of an adolescent. And ever since I saw "Becoming, Part 1", with Angel falling in love with a fifteen year-old Buffy, I finally understood why their romance didn't last. Watching their relationship on the screen, I felt as if I was witnessing adolescent love, similar to that of Romeo and Juliet - full of passion, angst and nothing else.
I'm not advocating a romance between Buffy and Spike, because I know that it will not happen. In fact, I strongly suspect that Buffy will not end up with either vampire. Will she find a mortal to love? Who knows? She had a chance with Riley, but Buffy only used him as someone to make her feel normal. Robin Wood is out of the question, considering his tendency to compare her with his mother . . . and Spike.
If Buffy does end up with a mortal, it won't happen while the show is on the air.
Antepenultimate Buffy Minutes Away and I'm Unspoiled -- David Frisby, 17:55:31 05/06/03 Tue
I'm unspoiled, apart from the preview last week, and very anxious for the antepenultimate buffy about to begin momentarily. My hopes for the finale of this series are extremely high -- Here's to Buffy!!
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Fine. Rub it in. WhatEVa...:) -- Calvin, 18:48:48 05/06/03 Tue
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Responding to my own post -- after buffy 7.20 (spoilers?) -- frisby, 19:10:24 05/06/03 Tue
Now THAT was a penultimate episode for the series. Just right on everything. Speed over Caleb. Spike's love. The weapon (Fray?)! The First as both The First AND the one it appears as??? So the Buffy who appears to Caleb IS in some ways the Buffy who died?
I love this show. This series WILL go down in history. And tomorrow is the end of Angel. And Angel will be in the penultiamte Buffy and possibly the ultimate also???
Thank you ME for the best ever of television! And thank you cast and crew, etc........
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Hear, hear! -- Rob, 21:35:50 05/06/03 Tue
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Your excitement is fueling my excitement, omg, I love this show too!!!! -- Maya, 22:10:04 05/06/03 Tue
Yippee The Slayer's back -- Michael, 18:06:45 05/06/03 Tue
Okay boys and girls, Buffy is back and she is bad. I am pumped by this latest episode. It seems that everything is coming together. That look on SMG's face at the end of the ep has been worth the wait.
I know this is childish, but I was so worried. To be frank, I was afraid of this episode (darn those previews), as usual UPN didn't show us the really good stuff.
It's about power and Buffy has it, even when she was dodging Caleb, she had the power.
Down euphoria, down boy. Be patient with me fellow posters, but I haven't felt this good about an episode since the musical.
I'm going to get some ice cream and settle down and then start evaluating the episode, but for now
Yippee!!! Buffy's back!
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***SPOILERS*** FOR 7.20 ABOVE -- dub, 18:09:23 05/06/03 Tue
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Re: ***SPOILERS*** FOR 7.20 ABOVE -- Michael, 18:10:52 05/06/03 Tue
Sorry about that. Bad euphoria. Bad dog.
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Agreed. - Spoilers for 'Touched' -- Sofdog, 19:37:52 05/06/03 Tue
The ending was quite exciting. First off, huge colossal yea to Buffy finding the Slayer weapon from Fray's story in "Tales of the Slayers" graphic novel. I was hoping that's where they were driving the story.
You are so right, it is about power. For too long now Buffy has been avoiding her own best advice. In "Potential" she told the trainees to follow their instincts, to run away and regain the higher ground. She hasn't been trying to make the fight hers. Buffy has been following the directions of anyone who weighed in. Principal Wood said the Potentials need some real experience, Buffy led them to Caleb's lair. Giles said be the general, she said okay.
At no point did she have enough info or reason to go along with either of those plans. Also, and very importantly, she finally got some rest. I've believed that DreamJoyce, in "Bring on the Night", was real all along. And her advice that Buffy needed to rest if she was going to win this was crucial. Buffy got some sleep and look - she figured out how not to get her ass kicked while finding her special gift.
Now that things are happening I wish there were more than 2 episodes left. I'd really like some extensive action/tension packed hours before we take these guys down.
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Re: Agreed. - Spoilers for 'Touched' -- Rob, 21:26:58 05/06/03 Tue
"At no point did she have enough info or reason to go along with either of those plans. Also, and very importantly, she finally got some rest. I've believed that DreamJoyce, in "Bring on the Night", was real all along. And her advice that Buffy needed to rest if she was going to win this was crucial. Buffy got some sleep and look - she figured out how not to get her ass kicked while finding her special gift."
Great point, Sofdog!
Rob
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Does anyone think there was an inverison going on? -- Tchaikovsky, 04:24:49 05/07/03 Wed
I've deliberated about 'Bring on the Night' after the fall-out from various subsequent episodes. My thoughts are that the two returning parents in the episode, Giles and Joyce, are deliberately paralleled, and say the opposite things. Giles tells her that it is all her own responsibility, that she must lead everyone, and that they will all follow. Joyce tells her that she must get some sleep, slow down and let herself breathe for a while.
They are saying opposites. Initially, the interpretation that seems obvious is that Giles is correct, and that First Evil Joyce from the dream is wrong. But looking back on it now, it seems the other way round. The disillusioned, worried Giles has displaced his worries on to his charge, believing her, for the first time, not only to be the Slayer, but some kind of personal saviour as his world, (Robson, the Watchers' Council) is falling in around him. On the other hand, Joyce; a real Joyce, or at least a correct thought in Buffy's dream, is telling her the right thing- that she must doing everything at a measured pace, rely on instincts, but most importantly rely on the others, to enjoy her final success.
TCH
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Abso-freakin'-lutely! ('Touched' & 'Peace Out' spoils--oh, and some cursing, but in a positive way!) -- Rob, 21:25:27 05/06/03 Tue
This episode made me so happy, I can't even begin to say. But words aren't necessary. As you said, that look on Buffy's face said it all.
I was so happy that we were finally able to hear Buffy speak about how she's been feeling this year, something we haven't been allowed to do since CwDP, which is one of the reasons so many people called Buffy cold or "a bitch" this year. And of course, again it is with a vampire. I found the Buffy/Spike scene to be so perfect, right down to the last syllable. Everything I wanted either of them to say all scene, they said. Absolutely perfect. And let me reiterate, Buffy IS NOT a bitch.
I loved Faith/Mayor. This was classic old school Richard Wilkins, and I loved it.
Now, before you say I'm getting all cheerleadery again, I do have to say my reservations with the episode: Kennedy and Willow, Kennedy and Willow, and um, hmmm, oh yeah, Kennedy and Willow. Although I took particular pleasure in Faith putting Kennedy in her place earlier in the episode. :o)
But seriously, it just annoyed me that so much time was spent on my least favorite couple on the show, W/K, and next to no time on my favorite, X/A. I was happy that the Faith and Wood sex, which I had heard about earlier and worried about, was not romantic. The two are not in love. Phew! It was just some tension release, and that's it, thank you very much! I actually enjoyed their scene, parallelling the two, that each had the First appear to him or her as a parental figure.
Other things....Spike putting Giles in his place. Buffy finally getting that spark back in her eyes as she deftly Slayered her way around Caleb. That amazing, awe-inducing, epicy shot of Buffy finding the Slayer version of Excalibur. That heart-pounding final shot. My mom was surprised to hear a very loud "Holy Fucking Shit!" coming from my room. Forget the recent war in Iraq: THIS was a shock and awe strategy!!
Exacalibur = awe!
Bomb= shock!
I am so pumped for the final two episodes. If I have any complaints about this episode, it would just be that the pacing went from fast-paced at the start to very slow in the middle to fast again at the end, making it seem slightly uneven. Would've helped to trim that W/K scene down, IMO ;o) because I loved everything else. Not gonna let that detract from my enjoyment of my ep too much, though. I won't let it. Because, just as AtS last week put a beaming smile on my face with Lilah's return, my one for Buffy at the end of this episode was that wide-eyed smile to the 100th degree.
Rob
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Oops! Typo! -- Rob, 21:33:47 05/06/03 Tue
Everything I wanted either of them to say all scene, they said.
Should be: Everything I wanted either of them to say all season, they said.
Rob
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Hell Yeah! -- Wizard, 23:54:10 05/06/03 Tue
I'm with you on just about everything- even though I did go in spoiled :(
Things were said now that should have been said all season- so much so that I wonder if the writer hangs around here.
I liked Spike putting the rest of the Scoobies in their places, but to be fair, even though Buffy did turn out to be right, they weren't entirely in the wrong. And I'm glad Buffy realized that. I'm not so glad about the Spike/Faith fight, though. She was innocent of everything except not going along with Buffy on a return raid to the winery, and that was very understandable. Faith went after Buffy, and Buffy gave her her blessings- her reluctant blessings, but still... anyway, hopefully the S/F relationship can be salvaged in two eps. Their chemistry in Dirty Girls was to good for it not to be. Speaking of Faith...
In just a little while, she managed to be a good leader. She kept her head during all the debate, and managed to take charge. She may not have followed anybody's advice, but she did what Buffy should have done- she let the others in on her thought processes. In one little speech, she reminded everybody that they gave the job of leadership to her, and that they now have to let her do her job. And the scene with the Mayor. Wow. It's like it really was him there... and if the First is to be believed, it was. Creepy, and well done- and the 'Firecracker' was the perfect touch. I don't like how Faith didn't seem to know what an Achilles Heel is- it's too much in pop culture for her not to know. And the raid on the arsenal... well, in some ways it was better planned than the debacle at the winery- this time, they actually had a layout of the place. But then... the arsenal gave out 'trap' vibes much like the winery did. And this could be much, much worse.
Seeing the girls take the Bringers on, it's becoming obvious that if the Scoobies had followed Buffy, they would have done better. Or would they? Buffy managed to handle Caleb after taking the break that being kicked out gave her. If they had went along, would she have figured out how to deal with him in time?
Anyway, I'm stoked for the finale. Everything's picking up steam, and next week, we should get the big reunion of the Scoobies- it's no coincidence that Giles, Willow, Xander, and Dawn were sent to find Buffy.
Oh- saw "Peace Out" tonight for the first time. Loved it, but the punchline of Lilah wasn't as effective as it could have been, what with Stephanie Romanov's name being in the gues credits. Last season, they got ASH's return right by saving him until the very end of TTG, and having listed as a "Very Special Guest Star" in the end credits, like they had the Big Bad Parade done in Lessons. Oh, well. A minor quibble. And tomorrow night, the Season Finale of Angel. Just can't wait. Oh- a question. How do you get bold type, italics, etc. in messages here?
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Hi Wizard! How to below.... -- Briar Rose, 00:47:23 05/07/03 Wed
To make the stressed words/lines you need to use HTML. Don't worry! It is really simple to learn and it doesn't change.*S* But since the only way to show it to you, is to use "substitutes" for the actual code symbols, you might want to copy it to a wordpad document or write it out by hand to learn how to do it right.
All these HTML codes use a set of three or four typed symbols. The first is an opening symbol of < this tells the application that posts the typed words of a post that HTML follows.
Then there is the actual COMMAND symbol that tells the application what to do after it sees that opening symbol of < . The command is easy enough, because most are the first letter of whatever you want it to do.*S*
The last symbol used to complete the line of code is >. This tells the application that whatever follows it is what the command is to be worked upon.
There is an addition to the code sequence to STOP the command from taking place after the word/line it is used on for that HTML emphasis. And this "ending tag" is Imperative for the board to function properly after your post and keep you off everyone's naughty list!*L
Once you finish the word or line you want the HTML emphasis on, you use the closing tag of / followed by symbol for the action you are asking for and then the final >.
Here's the actual tags... However, the < is being substituted with a { in the proper direction so you will be able to actually read it and copy it here. Once you are actually using it, just remember that { = < and } = > and you're set.
To make a word/line in bold you use the set of symbols: {b} Now once you have typed that word or line, you can need to use the ending command tag set of {/b} this turns OFF the bold and it will go back to the regular type face.
To make a word/line in italics the command line is: {i} and the ending command is {/i}
To underline you use the tag line: {u} and stop the underline with {/u}
You can also use them sets, as in a bold, underlined, italicised word, such as Hoo-ya!
After getting bored with that you can start to use the more advanced stuff like {font color="blue"} and {font size="4} and then there are making active links and such which I'll save for later!*L
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Forgot the combo one.... -- Briar, 00:56:03 05/07/03 Wed
To do the Hoo-ya!
you use them all at once: {u}{i}{b} Hoo-ya!{/b}{/i}{/u}
You can use the closing tags and opening tags in any order as long as you use them, especially the closing ones. I just am an anal programmer type and use them in the reverse order of what I opened last to first for the closing tags.
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Thank You! -- Wizard, 02:47:26 05/07/03 Wed
Okay... let's try this... and if it works, I am obviously not shouting or trying to be obnoxious, but merely testing this out to make sure I get it.
Thank you very much, Briar Rose!
Yay! It works! Ahh- the miracles of the preview page! (Does Numfarian Dance of Joy!) Thanks, Briar Rose, I've always wanted to know how to do that!
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this is all in the faq, which will still be there after br's post is archived--plus... -- anom, 14:31:47 05/08/03 Thu
...how to code for links! Briar Rose is right, it's not that hard, even for non- (or less-)techie types like me. I even(tually) got to the point where I could remember the keystroke sequence instead of copying it from Masq's FAQ page & pasting it in! Well, except for the URL I'm linking to.
If you need to refresh your memory or learn more once this post is archived along w/BR's, you can use the link at the top of the main message board page--it's the 1st one after the title & the quotes. "Using HTML" is the 3rd link under "ATPoBtVS Forum" on the FAQ page.
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You're much welcome new HTML Wizard! anom is right, but this was quicker. -- Briar Rose (I teach this stuff), 17:31:44 05/08/03 Thu
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did not in any way mean that to undercut you, br... -- anom, 23:05:21 05/08/03 Thu
...(not sure if you thought that)--I just meant to supplement your very helpful instructions. It's easy to forget this stuff if you don't use it much (hell, I almost had to check the FAQ to make sure of the link code), & this thread will get archived. Once that happens, it'll be easier to find the info again by going to the FAQ than by searching the archives.
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Currently... -- KdS, 03:24:11 05/07/03 Wed
The HTML standard-setters are trying to get people to keep tags properly nested, so you have
{b}{u}{i}Something{/i}{/u}{/b}
and no other permutation.
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Yep - that's us anal programmer types for ya. Thou shalt nest commands in ORDER!*L -- Briar Rose, 17:27:13 05/08/03 Thu
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Faith and Greek legend -- Valheru, 02:05:10 05/07/03 Wed
I don't like how Faith didn't seem to know what an Achilles Heel is- it's too much in pop culture for her not to know.
I also thought it was too "dumb blond" of Faith to not know what Achilles' Hell means, until I remembered Faith's previous encounter with ancient Greece in Revelations:
GWENDOLYN POST: Faith, do you know who the Spartans were?
FAITH: Wild stab: a bunch of guys from Spart?
It's good to know that, despite Faith's many changes, there's still inside her that sometimes clueless girl who never read the classics. And it could also be a case of the writers subtly referring to a previous moment in order to use it as foreshadowing: the three hundred Spartans at Thermopylae fighting off the thousands of Persian soldiers is a neat parallel to Buffy, the Scooby Gang, and an army of wet-behind-the-ears Potentials vs. the immesurable forces of the First Evil.
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She also didn't know 'remuneration' -- Vickie, 14:18:13 05/07/03 Wed
In 5x5 (AtS). It's a running joke they do with Faith, and it bugs me every time. It's probably reasonably realistic though, for a young woman of her background. She's not a reader, which is typically how people expand their vocabularies and cultural literacy outside formal education.
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re: main titles (Angel 4.21 spoiler) -- Rob, 11:37:52 05/08/03 Thu
Yes, I was also a bit surprised that they listed "Stephanie Romanov" at the opening, but they may have been banking on the idea that after all the excitement in the episode, the viewer might have forgotten that by the end. I wonder if it's a contractual thing?
Rob
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Yeahhhhh damn straight -- Maya, 22:54:22 05/06/03 Tue
She just needed someone to believe in her. Isn't that what we all need? Spike was perfect this episode. He said everything to those stupid brats that I was screaming at the television last week. "You ungrateful traitors! She's saved your lives! She's DIED saving you!"
Ditto to whoever was complaining about Kennedy and Willow. Kennedy's an idiot on a power trip cause she thinks she higher on the food chain cause she's sleeping with a Scooby. Willow, you are disgracing Tara's memory and I am disappointed in you.
Back to Buffy's Matrix-meets-Crouching Tiger moves. I love it when she goes in alone and does her thing. It's always just been about her and her inner strength. This show has always been to me about how much a strength an individual can have if they believe in themselves. Spike helped her get her confidence back and now she's got that light in her eyes that comes from the knowledge that she's gonna win no matter what. Ohhh how I love this show.
-Maya
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Willow's not 'disgracing Tara's memory'. (7.20 spoilers) -- HonorH, 00:11:45 05/07/03 Wed
She's found someone she likes very much, and they decided to make love tonight. The way the scene was set up, it was a very mutual thing, not Kennedy seducing Willow. Not liking Kennedy is one thing, but it is Willow's decision--and not one Tara would stand in the way of.
Also, I don't think Kennedy's really on a power trip. Yes, she was making a bid for the leadership, but once Faith made her position clear, Kennedy fell in line and even played Bringer-bait. I don't get the impression that falling in line is really part of Kennedy's emotional makeup, either, so good on her, IMHO.
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I hate Kennedy, and even I agree with this! (7.20 spoilers) -- Rob, 08:07:11 05/07/03 Wed
Sorry you haven't yet been able to help me reform on the Kennedy-hateage, HonorH, because each episode, she irritates me more and more. Unfortunately, it is the actress that really bothers me, so I don't know if it's the character or not. If she were played by someone else, who knows? I would have loved her had those rumors been true and the girl who played Kaylee on "Firefly" played her.
But I do wholeheartedly agree that Willow is not disgracing Tara's memory. Willow does not have to remain chaste the rest of her life, nor does she have to have approval from the fans in order to have a sexual relationship deemed one that is not disgracing Tara's memory. She'd be disgracing her memory more, IMO, if she stayed alone and sad the rest of her life. Again, I completely am not getting her taste in this girl, who I find abrasive and humorless, but hey, that's her business.
I do, though, kind of agree on the power trip thing. I will give her kudos for falling in line, but it just annoyed me that she assumed that she could make decisions because she'd been there longer, and that she jumped on Faith just as she jumped on Buffy earlier. It weakened her credibility, IMO, for it made it seem like she would react that way not only to Buffy but to anyone in a position of authority. Faith telling Kennedy to shut the hell up made my day...in a big way. ;o)
But on everything else, totally agree!
Rob
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Kennedy is the ONLY one (spoilers Touched) -- WickedSnappinSynapses, 09:37:02 05/07/03 Wed
"Willow, you are disgracing Tara's memory"
First, what memory do you mean?
Paugh. Is the only way Willow won't disgrace Tara's memory is to find someone one notch "better" than Tara? It's not an hierarchy thing ... it's chemical, emotional and physical. They have it. They are acting on it.
Willow was so afraid of "letting go". Kennedy has shown herself, even in her brashness, to be very solid and strong in both will (heh) and body.
The very things some people point out as Kennedys faults are what has made it safe for Willow to be able to find some kind of peace and joy.
Besides, I think Kennedy went to band camp, too.
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I think we all wish... -- Masq, 11:52:58 05/07/03 Wed
that when a network television program finally decided to show two women making love the way they always show a man and a woman making love, that it would Willow and Tara. Because we all felt the love of Willow and Tara.
But when Joss and co. decided to push that envelope, and when UPN had the cajones to show it, it was Willow and Kennedy.
And I, for one, thought it was HOT, and I want to applaud Joss, ME, and UPN for doing it.
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I thought it was awkward and stilted, but I'm still glad they did it. -- dream, 12:04:33 05/07/03 Wed
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I agree, Masq. But I can't figure out what everyone else is comparing it to? -- WickedBuffy (some movie? tvscene? play? kitchen table?, 14:26:29 05/07/03 Wed
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Further significance of the scene (spoilers Touched) -- skyMatrix, 16:41:53 05/07/03 Wed
I would definitely agree that it it's good for them to have done it, but too bad it couldn't be with W/T instead. After all, even those of us who don't dislike Kennedy, like me, know full well that there's probably almost no one that likes Kennedy better than Tara! Of course, we know that it's mostly the WB's fault. As it was, the most intimacy we got short of the bit in "Once More, With Feeling" was of course the infamous scenes in "Seeing Red" (mostly post-coital as I recall), infamous because of what followed and the association many felt was being implied between the (lesbian) sex and the violence.
Now, this brings me to my point (or at least near it). Much has been made of the "political" (if that's the right word for it) reason for introducing Kennedy and W/K, which is to reassure fans that Willow will not "revert" to heterosexuality, something that I'm sure the vast majority of fans who are still watching would be opposed to. Of course you can't prove that Willow is still gay unless you give her another relationship, so here we are with W/K.
Political or not, this scene helped reinforce that there is a dramatic reason for all this as well. On a meta level, fan reactions to the death and evil that occured after lesbian sex in "Seeing Red" ranged from a lingering uneasiness to great anguish and rage. This we all know, but what had never occured to me is that Willow herself, within the context of the show, felt on some level that maybe there was some kind of connection between the connection (both emotional and sexual), and the evil that she turned into in the last 3 eps of Season 6. This scene served to put these lingering notions in the mind of Willow, and on a meta level, in the minds of the audience, to rest.
I've worked through this partially to understand my own reaction, because when I heard Willow say that she was afraid that sex with Kennedy might turn her evil, my first reaction was shock. (Ok technically my first reaction was "you mean they're not already having sex?" after all it's not as if we were informed about when Willow first had sex with Tara). But seriously, I wondered how she could make that association in her head. It was somewhat disturbing. I think that intellectually, she'd know better, but emotionally, Willow's an irrational being like she all is, and we all end up wondering if A isn't the reason for B despite ourselves. So in this scene, Willow finally realized that, although there is darkness in her, it has nothing to do with love, sex, or sexuality. And I think it was also the writers' attempt to reassure this as well. I doubt it really will make anyone feel better, but I take it as a nice symbolic gesture nonetheless.
I hope this analysis served well and that I didn't poor salt on anyone's old wounds or display my ignorance in a harmful manner! Not to be too contrite, but this is an important topic and a sensitive one at that. But please feel free to tell me if I pushed a button somewhere, I won't take it amiss.
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I liked your thoughts on the topic. Thank you for posting them. -- WickedBuffy, 17:47:45 05/07/03 Wed
.. and I thought they were already having sex, too! Geesh, they should have already bought a house and adopted a puppy by now.
Didn't quite understand the part about Willow, though.
"...but what had never occured to me is that Willow herself, within the context of the show, felt on some level that maybe there was some kind of connection between the connection (both emotional and sexual), and the evil that she turned into in the last 3 eps of Season 6. This scene served to put these lingering notions in the mind of Willow, and on a meta level, in the minds of the audience, to rest."
What lingering notions?
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Re: Further significance of the scene (spoilers Touched) -- Calamus, 03:00:03 05/08/03 Thu
"I've worked through this partially to understand my own reaction, because when I heard Willow say that she was afraid that sex with Kennedy might turn her evil, my first reaction was shock. (Ok technically my first reaction was "you mean they're not already having sex?" after all it's not as if we were informed about when Willow first had sex with Tara). But seriously, I wondered how she could make that association in her head. It was somewhat disturbing. I think that intellectually, she'd know better, but emotionally, Willow's an irrational being like she all is, and we all end up wondering if A isn't the reason for B despite ourselves. So in this scene, Willow finally realized that, although there is darkness in her, it has nothing to do with love, sex, or sexuality. And I think it was also the writers' attempt to reassure this as well. I doubt it really will make anyone feel better, but I take it as a nice symbolic gesture nonetheless."
I took Willow's hesitation to be not an equation of sex = evil (as per Caleb), but rather a concern about the "letting go" that sexual release can entail. Especially her line about being in control, and not wanting to "go" ("go off" is what I expected her to say). Trying not to be graphic here, but in books about general female sexual response & non-orgasmic women, and in quite a bit of lesbian erotica this issue comes up- it doesn't just come out of nowhere. This conversation comes up in many lesbian relationships, so OTOH it can be chalked up to "social realism," but I think it's especially appropriate for Willow because:
1.) her last binge of massive aggression was directed at a man whose evil acts were sexualized to begin with and also involved rape;
2.) that aggression was a result of the loss of Willow's sexual partner (and "Touched" has a heavy subtext of "sex is sublimated violence, or violence is sublimated sex");
3.) Willow's got serious issues with sex, trust, intimacy, etc. that go back to her relationship with Tara, where Willow made her partner feel unsafe, at various times;
4.) sex with Tara was represented as this floating, spinning magical thing that had great power (IIRC), and that's gotta be in her mind on several levels- floating again at all as a betrayal of Tara, a la TKIM; her ability to control powerful magic is her big problem of late; and one of her last big spell thingies involved sucking the bejesus out of this woman she's in bed with (trust issues); and
5.) It's a way to say to Kennedy "I'm having doubts about trusting you with this intimate act, please give me a sign that I can really trust you" without making it a slight on Kennedy, but a recognition of the person Willow really has doubts about- her own ability to deal with a potential betrayal of trust.
anyway. If it had been a little less cheezy, the whole kite thing and all (though a clever Xena reference, to one of the big "subtext" romance episodes no less)... but then, people are usually kinda cheezy when they're with their sweetie poopikins or whatever. I liked how it ties in to Willow's whole history.
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Re: I think we all wish... -- Rufus, 01:15:06 05/09/03 Fri
I thought it was a convincing scene too...it took a bit and then I wondered ...what is wrong with her tongue....the next thought was...jeeze it got through the censors!
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Re: Willow's not 'disgracing Tara's memory'. (7.20 spoilers) -- Maya, 16:36:04 05/07/03 Wed
I think she is being unfair to Tara. Tara really died only a very short time ago. Maybe it's me personally, but I can't believe that it took Willow less than a year to get over her, when they'd been together since Season 4. And I don't really feel any true love or whatever between Kennedy and Willow. I think their whole relationship is so forced. Willow can do so much better. It's just incredibly beyond me why she would choose Kennedy.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I miss Tara and I was upset to see Willow with Kennedy because I haven't even gotten over Tara's death yet and Willow already has. Of course it's Willow's decision to date whoever she wants, but my opinion of Willow has dropped a little bit as a result.
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ME just can't win -- KdS, 16:43:16 05/07/03 Wed
After all the row last year, they had to have Willow have some kind of a relationship with a woman to prove that ME does not, as Gunn would put it, hate the gay woman. Now ME are getting crap from W/T shippers because they think Willow moved on too fast.
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That's why they're called 'worshippers', right? -- WickedBuffy, 16:46:52 05/07/03 Wed
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Well this gay woman appreciates the gesture -- Masq, 20:48:06 05/07/03 Wed
As much as I loved Willow and Tara, life goes on.
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Willows ability to love honors Tara....... -- Rufus, 21:34:15 05/07/03 Wed
I think if Willow had pulled herself into a protective shell Tara would not be pleased. Tara was about love and redemption...she forgave Buffy at the end of Dead Things...she was the one character who seemed wise beyond her years. As a mature character, Tara would understand that being able to love shouldn't be something you preserve like a dried flower, but to continue to actively do. For Willow to be able to love honors everything Tara was as Tara was more than just a sex partner she is the love in Willows heart that remains and comforts.
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That was very sweet, Rufus. I agree. -- WickedBuffy, 22:48:46 05/07/03 Wed
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'That's wonderful, Harold. Now go out and love some more.' Maude -- dream, 06:50:12 05/08/03 Thu
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Awww... -- Maya, 16:28:57 05/08/03 Thu
***Tara would understand that being able to love shouldn't be something you preserve like a dried flower, but to continue to actively do. For Willow to be able to love honors everything Tara was as Tara was more than just a sex partner she is the love in Willows heart that remains and comforts.***
Oh...that made me feel better. I didn't think about it that way, but now that I do I'm less nauseuous (sp?) at the thought of Kennedy and Willow. Thank you! Oh, I miss Tara.
-Maya
Giles; a thought, not a spoiler. -- kisstara, 18:28:05 05/06/03 Tue
I think Giles is under a trigger and being used by the FE. I've thought this since he gave his rendition of defending himself against the Bringer with the ax.
1. He's been knocked out many times by those weaker than a Bringer.
2. He's corporeal, so he wasn't killed, but it seems unlikely that his version of the fight is true.
3. He tried to end Spike's unlife when the FE was going to lose their power over him. Angel wasn't a threat why is Spike?
4. His demeaner is one of outside looking in.
5. He killed the Bringer. Couldn't they get more info out of him?
6. Bomb.
Any one agrees with me?
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Very interesting remarks....but there are spoilers up to BtVS 7.20 above. -- RadiusRS, 19:48:41 05/06/03 Tue
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Re: Giles; a thought, and some spoilers -- Michael, 20:33:15 05/06/03 Tue
Hmm, me no like where these thoughts are going, but since you brought them up...
Who brought the Potentials to Sunnydale?
And you're right, he's standing around. Hardly any action out of Giles and we know what a beast he can be.
When is Buffy at her strongest? When she is doing her thing. When she is depending on herself to get the job done, however, it was Giles who brought the Potentials to her to train. They have sapped her strength; they have sapped her will because she was having to juggle them instead of going all out Slayer on the first. They distracted her. When she went after Caleb, she didn't have to watch anyone else's back. It was her against the Big Bad, the way it has always been: the Master, Adam, Glory, the Mayor. (Wasn't it great seeing him again. Don't you just want to pinch his little head off?)
Thoughts on Sunnydale Abandon (Spoilers through 7.20) -- Finn Mac Cool, 19:19:49 05/06/03 Tue
Some people have commented on the way that Sunnydale is starting to be abandoned and have said it's a cop out. Barring a different use of the word "cop out" than I'm used to (and stranger things have happened), I disagree.
First off, we do know that the people of Sunnydale aren't entirely unaware of the evil they're living with. The graduating class in "The Prom" showed that they knew about the stange goings on, but didn't like to talk about it. And, more recently, Nancy said in "Beneath You" that, in Sunnydale, you hear about things living there, but tell yourself they aren't real, because you'd have to be insane to believe they were. As such, I can believe that, when things start to get really bad, that people would start to realize it.
Second, we do know that the energy from the Hellmouth affects people. It draws demons, vampires, witches, and other supernatural creatures to it. In "What's My Line", we discover that the Hellmouth's vibe has encouraged more prayer than usual (hence the 47 churches). And, of course, there are unexplained phenomena like those in "I Only Have Eyes For You" or "Invisible Girl", all caused by the Hellmouth's evil influence.
Third, we've seen evidence this season that the Hellmouth's working double duty. Granted, some of that can be attributed to the Seal of Danthalzar (which is now shut down), but not all. At the beginning of the season, particularly "Lessons", there was a lot of foreboding going on, with people knowing that "something big is coming", without knowing what. It seems safe to presume the Hellmouth had something to do with this. There's the high school basement, where the walls shift. There are the psycho cops who attacked Faith. They wouldn't have gone so far overboard if it weren't for the Hellmouth's added influence. Then there's Wood's comment in "Dirty Girls", "Half the kids don't even bother showing up anymore." It seems safe to presume that everyone in Sunnydale has been affected by this to a certain degree.
Fourth, there have been some implications that the First Evil is somehow linked to the Hellmouth. After all, a lot of its actions this season have revolved around the Seal of Danthalzar and the Hellmouth, and the vision of the Turok-Han seems to suggest that isn't entirely over. Plus, when the Hellmouth vibe was at its most powerful in "Storyteller", five of the students became Bringers, servants of the First. Somehow or another, the First got the Hellmouth to give it another few servants. If this is the case, it's possible that the First has gotten the Hellmouth to start driving the people out of Sunnydale. Why? Don't know. But the First works in mysterious ways.
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I personally think it's great meta on... (spoilers thru 7.20) -- Rob, 21:32:00 05/06/03 Tue
...the fact that on a daily basis, evil supernatural occurences happen in Sunnydale and nobody moves. Now, they're finally starting to notice! It makes it seem even more final, climactic, epic etc. This isn't just one of those apocalyses(? ;o) ) where Buffy saves the world and nobody else in Sunnydale besides the SG even realized the world was so close to ending (paraphrased from The Zeppo). This time people are finally noticing, and reacting to it. Now Sunnydale can truly be a battlefield!
Rob
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Sunnydale as the Waste Land? (spoilers thru 7.20) -- ponygirl, 08:06:10 05/07/03 Wed
Rob, you had done a post on Arthurian legends, did you not? Because I was getting quite the Fisher King vibe from Buffy last night. The empty land, the wounded leader who finally takes to bed because of all the pain and weariness, and then the healing which in some stories is done by a knight and in others by a fool. Except Buffy and the land doesn't seem quite healed, she just got some strength and a clearer mind. And then there's the sword/scythe/big freakin' Fray axe in the stone. Could Buffy be both the Fisher King and King Arthur?
William the Poet posted on King Arthur's knight way back in October. I went back to the Stakehouse today, or rather that very thoughtful archive of WtP posts that allowed me to stay out of the spoilery sections. I'm just rambling really but I thought his post was pretty interesting:
Oh, and one more note. All that discussion about the Arthurian legends ...
Well, what can I say? I'm impressed. But while you're discussing whether
Buffy is playing Lancelot or Galahad . . . and why . . . you might want to
broaden out the discussion and remember the basics of the *other* knights
who were involved with that Quest.
Lancelot, the greatest of all knights and warriors, of course has been
mentioned. But what has not been mentioned is that unholy lust cost him the
chance to win the Grail. It would be a true tragedy if Lancelot ended up
trying to be something impossible and did not remain true to this noble but
flawed nature.
And also mentioned has been Galahad, the pure virgin, child of Lancelot
through trickery, who ultimately achieves what Lancelot is not able to do.
Galahad not only achieves the Grail . . . but also follows it to a place
beyond this world after healing the waste land.
Percival, the innocent knight -- and model of the Tarot Fool who becomes the
wise Hermit -- who constantly was embarassed with both men and women yet was
destined to *almost* achieve the Grail. Perhaps that goal would have been
achieved, had it not been for the one time that Percival fell from purity,
betrayed by love for a woman. Gaining wisdom with age, Percival becomes the
new ruler of the Grail kingdom.
Then there is Bors, the counselor and aide who is invaluable on the Grail
quest. Like Lancelot, however, it is not for him to achieve it. It is not
his lust that costs him the ultimate victory though . . . rather it is his
ordinariness. Bors is the ordinary man who does not appear to be a Hero,
and yet succeeds where many others fail.
The last Grail Knight I want to mention here is Gawaine. Like Lancelot,
Gawaine is prevented from achieving the Grail by his lust. Now if you drop
your Mallory for a moment and go back to Chretien . . . well, the Gawain
story gets really interesting. Had the story continued, it's thought that
Gawain's quest for the Lance would have coincided with Galahad's quest for
the Grail in the Fisher King's castle. And that would have resulted in
Gawain's redemption. Pity the story didn't get that far.
And the real question, of course, is what's the Grail?
WilliamthePoet
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Perhaps... (Touched spoilers) -- Rob, 14:26:09 05/07/03 Wed
...we can see Buffy as the Fisher King and Spike as the fool bringing him the cup of water that turns out to be the Grail, which had been beside the king all along but which he was never able to see.
The use of the Excalibur imagery is interesting, too, because whereas the sword in the stone really began Arthur's hero's journey, it seems like it will be the end of Buffy's. Or if it is the symbol of a new beginning for Buffy, then at least we can say that it is interesting that whereas Mallory gives very few details in Arthur's life after Merlyn left him with Sir Ector up until he arrives in London as Kay's squire at the age of 18, in this story we learn about the exploits of the hero BEFORE receiving his/her magical weapon. I'll probably have to wait until the last episode airs before postulating on why Joss constructed Buffy's hero's journey this way. Perhaps "Buffy" as a TV series is analagous to T.H. White's "The Sword in the Stone," the story of the hero before he or she comes into his or her own. While Buffy has done in her childhood far more heroic acts than Arthur did in his, maybe this speaks to the fact that what Buffy will accomplish after the story of the series ends, what she will become in the future, will eclipse anything that has come before.
Um...am I making sense here or rambling? Can't really tell at the moment.
Rob
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Re: Perhaps... (Touched spoilers) -- Wizard, 15:27:48 05/07/03 Wed
Well, barring appearances on Angel next year, or any movies, then the sad answer is: we will never know. But the thought is very, very thought-provoking!
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