In fact, if anything I could have used quite a bit less build up this year. As stated in previous ramblings, the addiction story line didn't click for me, not subtle enough for metaphor not realistic enough for real TV, not in keeping with my erroneous ideas of magic in the Buffyverse.
For myself, I draw, but it's for personal pleasure not with any intent of selling pieces, or sending a message or creating a statement of our times. I draw because there is something in a face that compells and I must draw. The pictures become accurate portraits but also more. So I can quote Joss interviews but not really understand what he was trying to do since I don't sketch with others in mind. I was interested in hearing if anyone else could discuss it from this perspective.
Thanks for the response...and if you made it this far, thanks for reading.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Open narratives -- MaeveRigan, 12:52:47 07/13/02 Sat
Maybe this has been said already (I admit I haven't read the entire thread)--but a continuing TV series is open in one way that a novel or movie isn't--there's always next week, or next season.
Thus, even IF W/T at the end of B6 exemplified the "lesbian cliche," as long as the show continues, and people keep watching, it doesn't have to stop there and the cliche can be overturned. Even if Tara returns in some way/shape/form, that's not going to satisfy the die-hard (sorry!) W/T shippers, but if Willow doesn't stay crazed/evil, that should help. If she remains gay, gets a new girlfriend, wouldn't that make a difference?
Of course, like life, it doesn't happen if you don't stick with it.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Agree entirely -- Rahael, 04:54:57 07/15/02 Mon
I was confining myself to the relatively more closed 'artifacts'. Buffy of course, is always open, and even the writers cannot know where they are going to end up. Even Joss doesn't plan that far ahead, though I'm sure he has a feeling, a place where he wants to get to at certain points. The destination lies ahead. The path's unclear, uncertain. That's why I'm a Spoiler trollop, and why the thrill of the chase is so exciting.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: The narrative -- cjc36, 09:32:55 07/15/02 Mon
What is privileged is up to each individual writer to decide, I guess. In my one attempt to write a novel, I was forced to deconstruct 2/3 through, because my secondary protagonist started screaming for more pages, while my supposedly main character ran out of runway, story wise. In subsequent redrafts, I corrected the problem and finished the next version. The "story" took over.
But what does this mean? It meant for me that I could tell the story of the former secondary lead better than the first. Her story resonated with an arc that would do all I had set out to do in the story, and give support and MORE meaning to the character that was bumped from the staring role. Once I'd figured out she was the lead, it was as if I'd found a 'path to ground', and the story was, essentially, done, an equation that equaled something definite rather than vague.
Willow's decent resonated with me. I was angry but felt sorry for her. To me, ME did good. If they didn't do good, they still have the right to do badly.
I guess I take freedom of artistic expression - even bad artistic expression, which is basically freedom of speech over making people mad.
Now should Joss/ME have taken all the 'credit' for creating a lesbian couple to begin with? Perhaps not, but compliments are hard to ignore.
My 2 cents.
[> [> [> [> Re: What makes "The Story" privileged? -- Finn Mac Cool, 08:53:43 07/11/02 Thu
Joss has given the audience many shocks (Angel's turn to evil, Jenny Calender dying, Angel being sent to hell, Joyce's death and the tragedy of The Body, Buffy's death and post-ressurection angst). But, despite all of it, the show maintains a loyal fanbase. Joss Whedon has done things like this before. How many people were shocked and outraged when Buffy killed Angel? A lot, but the show's popularity didn't sink into a slime pit. Joss has given worse emotional shocks than this, and still people keep coming back.
[> [> [> [> Characters and Plot -- Finn Mac Cool, 09:09:49 07/11/02 Thu
Yes, character developement is a great part of the story. And few could say that Willow's rampage of grief was not deep characterization.
While the W/T relationship did help ratings success, don't you think all the questions about what's going to happen to Willow and how will the Gang react to Tara's death boosted ratings?
And where do you get the idea that their relationship was integral? It may or may not be your favorite, but that doesn't mean the show can't easily get by without it.
[> [> [> [> Huh ? -- Ete, 12:03:21 07/11/02 Thu
"On one level, yes, the story can't run by taking an opinion poll over what should happen next. OTOH, this is an industry run by ratings, i.e., by viewer preference. This means that, story or not, ME should not be in the business of turning off loyal viewers in the story arcs. There is a line here; whether they crossed it in this particular case seems to be a matter of judgment."
I'm so surprised to read this. Really, they have a duty to satisfy us ? Why ? Are ME our employees ?
I'm not sure if this particular arc was well done, but wether it is a stroke of genious or a very bad aesthetic decision doesn't matter. It's their work of art, they tell the story they want.
We (as the public) can like it or not, it comes after the story. You don't create art so as to satisfy the public, so as to sell, it doesn't make sense.
Now, I know that this could be just a difference of culture, because French and Americans do not envision creative products the same way, or do other people feel the same way than I ?
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Huh ? -- Sophist, 12:17:07 07/11/02 Thu
ME may very well be trying to create works of art as one of its motivations. I'm sure another motivation is making money. In any case, UPN is in the business of selling commercials in order to finance its use of airtime. UPN uses this money for, among other things, paying ME to create art. My only point was that if the viewers don't want to watch BtVS, UPN won't pay ME to create it. I was commenting on the business aspect, not the artistic one.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Huh ? -- Finn Mac Cool, 15:02:02 07/11/02 Thu
As I've pointed out in a different post:
Joss has done far more tragic things than the death of Tara. Angel/Angelus, anybody? However, the show's fanbase only seems to grow. I doubt this event will harm the popularity of BtVS. Besides, Buffy is contracted for one more season; even if it does bomb, UPN is stuck.
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Huh ? -- Dochawk, 23:32:09 07/11/02 Thu
Ete, we started this discussion in chat yesterday. American Television (and French tv for that matter) is simply a place for advertisers to get your eyeballs. There is nothing at all about art involved. The job of the producer of a tv show is to get you to watch their show and therefore watch the commercials that surround it. The story is secondary. It is the means by which a good tv show grabs you, but remember Baywatch was once the worlds most watched tv show. Great story eh? Alhtough Joss may think his # priority is his story and to himself as an artist, his most important job is to deliver that desired demographic to UPN. Thats why they were willing to shell out 2.3 million dollars an episode. if Joss creates a story that drives viewers away, he will hear about it from the network (you wont, Joss has a 20 million dollar contract with Fox, neither is going to soil that relationship in public). As long as he delivers the viewers he can tell any story he wants, but his first responsibility is to the people who pay the bills. Which are in essence the viewers. So yes, in a way we are his employers, because its by our response that he gets paid.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Huh ? -- Finn Mac Cool, 09:35:09 07/12/02 Fri
Given how popular Buffy is, and that Joss has been with it for six years, plus his work on Angel and some movie scripts, do you really think he NEEDS to be paid any more? He could probably retire right now and live very well for the rest of his life. And, UPN can't stop him from telling his story, because he's got that contract for the seventh season, which looks like it might be the last. So, really, Joss doesn't have to give a hoot about advertisers.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Huh ? -- auroramama, 12:03:56 07/13/02 Sat
Re: Joss: his most important *job objective*, as defined by his direct employers, may be to attract advertiser dollars (although there's also a PR/marketing aspect: BtVS has brought prestige to UPN, which is thought to have an indirect effect on viewers and advertisers.) But he's the one who defines his artistic and personal objectives. His most important artistic objective seems to be to create the story he wants to create. If his job objectives compromise his artistic and personal objectives past a certain point, he'll quit his job. Just like the rest of us.
[> [> [> [> "The Story" -- Arya_Stark, 18:17:58 07/11/02 Thu
Well... I may not be a writer, but my mother is and after hearing her talk about her writing for years I can tell you that "The Story" can take on a life of its own above and beyond even what the writer intended. I have on a couple of occasions heard her stating (or complaining) that the story had taken an entirely different route than she had intended or imagined. It was just what the characters needed to do. The characters become so real to her and have their own personalities and sometimes do things she never intended.
So it seems to me that for my mother, as a writer, there may by an infinite number of "Story" possibilities at the beginning of a piece of work, but each choice and word narrows that "Story" down. So by the end there is only one story to tell.
Maybe I'm just putting words into my mother's mouth, after all I have never talked to her about this specific portion of writing. It certainly does seem to be that for my mother there is only one possible story -- and it often dictates itself, not the writer dictating the story.
[> [> [> Re: I agree fully, It's about the story not viewer preferences -- Rosie, 15:57:32 07/11/02 Thu
I'm not pissed that Tara's dead as much as I am sad at how poorly it was done. How could you not laugh at the way Willow's subtle descent into evil was handled. "Candles are like bongs to witches". Yeah okay. A strung out Amy stealing sage and forcing a hit on poor little victim Willow who has the shakes and needs to gulp down some water.
But the season was worth it. We got the sensational 3 episodes of evil Willow who lost most of the audience anyway when she tried to kill a defenceless Dawn and wanted to kill her best friend (not to mention having a genocidal plan to end the world). Great way of handling Willow's change from a desire for vengeance to a wish to end the world. She just wants to save the poor bastades didn't you know.
And it all ends with Willow at a satanic temple thrilling all wicans as she is drained of power by Xander. That was so worth Tara's death.
Watch Farscape they know how to gradually build up a plot arc over the season and make it interesting. When John Crichton was being driven insance in season 2 I was griped by his visions and his maniac behaviour etc. Willow drying out was entertainment how? It was just filler while we waited for the big climax in the final. That's fine but did the middle section of the season have to drag so badly? Seems like the writers have to work on their pacing. And perhaps someone should remind Marti that no she isn't Sylvia Plath. Enough of angst for angsts sake.
[> [> [> [> Re: I agree fully, It's about the story not viewer preferences -- Finn Mac Cool, 17:41:16 07/11/02 Thu
Hence Season 6 often being called Buffy's worst season ever.
[> [> [> [> [> I quite liked season six.....angst and all.....:) - - Rufus, 04:13:00 07/12/02 Fri
Life isn't just "hugs and puppies" and season six gave us enough pain and suffering to make the most jovial of us consider just how sharp razor blades are...but everyone has had a point in their lives when they must have felt like the world and their lives had spun out of control never to return to any order or happiness...but depending on what we do with our choices and the extras circumstances thrown in, we can all crawl out of our most grave times and enjoy the world and see it in a new way. I liked most of this year, only finding a few eps that I don't fancy. ME took a chance with reality, mixing reality with the metaphor until the Buffyverse became a little too real for comfort. I have to wonder what we and the writers learned from the experience.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Once more climbing on the S6 supporter bandwagon -- ponygirl, 07:16:24 07/12/02 Fri
I have been a fan of the show since the second season, sometimes obsessively so, but I can honestly say I have never felt as connected emotionally to any show as I have with this season. I feel like I went through a journey this season, as hard as anything in this life, but ultimately rewarding. I have to go with Stephanie Zacharek's quote about the show being something that "rubs, hard, at the core of who you think you really are". It's a pretty unsettling feeling, the kind you get when your perceptions are being slowly and permanently shifted into a new way of seeing.
Season 6 baby!
[> [> [> [> [> [> Adding my voice again to pro-Season 6 -- shadowkat, 07:39:49 07/12/02 Fri
Before Season 6, I only thought of Btvs as a nice fantasy
show, it held my interest, I watched it every tuesday, taped when I wasn't home. But did not keep the tapes and certainly did not write essays.
Season 6 changed all that. This season there were episodes
that made my jaw drop by the risks the show was taking.
Smashed - never had I seen anyone do such an erotically
charged sex scene. Or a violent one. OMWF? They flipped
the musical form on its head and made us feel as if we had entered the show. Normal Again? They asked what is reality
and did an ironic play on the concept. Outside of maybe two or three episodes - I thought this was the most ambitious,
though-provoking season, it certainly put everything else
I saw on tv to shame.
From my own email correspondence - I know this season grabbed numerous new fans, people who thought of Btvs as just a show about high school kids before now. Now they've faithfully watched all those re-runs on FX and realized
it was never meant for teens. If it weren't for this season, I seriously doubt we'd have some of the posters on this board that we do. (I wouldn't be...)
just my ten cents worth...;-)
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Angst -- Finn Mac Cool, 09:42:54 07/12/02 Fri
This season certainly was a great, angsty drama.
The only problem, in my POV, is that there was little in it besides angsty drama.
After "Tabula Rasa", comedy was virtually gone from all episodes. Warren, while he got to be suitable disturbing, was never much of a threat to Buffy. Also, the supernatural came to be tacked in simply to fulfill viewer expectations.
For many seasons Buffy has been great at mixing comedy, drama, angst, fantasy, horror and action into a collective whole. I don't have a problem with giving drama/angst the focus, but it ignored all the other genres it has utilized so well in the past.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Angst -- Rosie, 10:15:07 07/12/02 Fri
I think it's unfair when people say others didn't like this season because of the angst (not saying anyone on this board has specifically, talking in general). I loved the angst in season 2 and 5.
I disliked season 6 because I felt I was being talked down to. The dialoge was mediocre and the writers seemed to have forgotten subtly and metaphour. How often did Willow mention breasts or tell us she was gay again? Trying to drum in the point to a thick audience much.
And as for Willow's drugged up rants. Willow's addiction was just embarrassing melodrama and it wasn't character exploration in my mind. Willow came across as a total cartoon just to remind us this isn't really Willow and we should let her of the hock. Seeing her snuffling "I need help" after a car accident belongs on soaps not Bts. I mean first she has a legitimate need for vengeance, then she has a green psychedelic orgasm leaving her pining for planetry destruction. And the dumb movie cliches she spouted were an emarassment. Why not just have her say "Gee I've got the munchies. Got any chips Giles". Seriously when did the writers last hear drug talk? "I'm so juiced". Whatever. It just seemed like ME were taking the oppurtunity to show off their special effects budget and getting Willow to scream like a banshee at the police station, have catfights with Buffy etc for viewers amusement. I was hoping for a subtle exploration of the darkness within her as a seasonal arc.
And what happened to irony? Was I the only one cringing when Buffy tells Dawn "I want to show you the world...God there's so much I want to show you". And then taking her on a tour of Sunnydale.
Spike's character development was nonexistent aside from having degrading sex with Buffy in dumpsters or up the ass in the Bronze. I was thrilled to watch his redemption in season 5. In Spiral he teamed up with the scoobies offering the possibility of frienships with Xander, developing friendsip with Dawn etc. Then this season each episode he is treated diffently by the scoobies. One episode Xander is playing cards with Spike or telling him to find a girlfriends. Then they are sworn enemies again. Spike becoming an international arms dealer was just weird. He lives in a crypt with no phone. How does that plot development make sense? There was no continuity in Spike's character. Marti admitted the scene where he raped Buffy was not part of a well thought out character arc. It was a last minute development to generate sympathy for Buffy as people were siding with Spike and Buffy needed to come across as the victim. It was purely to manipulate the audience as the plan this season was after building up Spike in season 5 they were going to knock him down, convince us her was evil and then trick us by giving him a soul (hence misleading us with Spike calling Buffy a bitch etc). If you have to explain your intentions in an interview odds are you weren't too successful.
Buffy was using Spike as a sex bunny and to gratify her ego ("tell me you love me"). And the episode DMP just depressed the hell out of me.
Dawn is constantly whining and has been voted the worst/most irritating character on tv. She is a whiny steroytypical cliche. And as for the anvils dropped about her slaying in a spin-off in the final. I actually like Dawn in season 5 too.
Giles absence sucked and his reason for leaving a severely depressed Buffy was not plausible. He left a gap and you can see that when he returns how badly he is needed.
Xander became annoying and difficult to sympathise with.
That is why I personally loathed season 6.
I enjoyed the first half with Buffy struggling to get over being in heaven. I do like darkness if it is done right. This season wasn't even close to fine art. JMO of course.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Balancing Angst and Humor and Metaphor -- aliera, 11:06:30 07/12/02 Fri
I'm certainly not going to disagree with any of the points made above. My own continued curiosity about what happened and where we go from here would belie my protestations. Yet Joss's comments themselves seem to recognize that although S6 was exactly what they planned and as happy as he was with the results, next year needs to be different.
[> [> Xander and Neil Gaiman might show us a way out of this mess... -- KdF, 05:07:29 07/12/02 Fri
"You ever think maybe the reason you haven't found a great relationship on the Hellmouth is... because it's a Hellmouth? Seems to me it's a pretty terrible place to try to build anything"
Xander - "I Was Made To Love You"
Generally, BtVS is a series that has always recoiled from happy endings. The sheer extent of emotional pain and disaster that we've seen might be rationally explained as a natural consequence of life haunted by violence. However, Xander's musings raise another possibility that might make those who object to Tara's death a little less outraged, if it were explicitly stated. What if the presence of the Hellmouth in Sunnydale means that BtVS's characters are menaced not just by vampires and demons, but by an inherently malevolent influence on fate and the universe? To put it bluntly, that if you live on a Hellmouth, then the consequences of all events will tend to be as hideous and entropic as possible. What some of the people who are attacking ME seem to miss is that there has been a tendency throughout the last six years for what shouldn't happen to happen. Yes, Tara and Willow should have lived happily ever after, but the Hellmouth didn't want it that way.
The row over Season Six's climax recalls a similar controversy some years ago over the death of Wanda in Neil Gaiman's Sandman. (For those of you who didn't read the books, Wanda was a female-to-male transexual who was killed in a hurricane created by a somewhat amoral witch literally "drawing down the moon".) Because the Moon Goddess had made it clear that She didn't consider Wanda to be a woman, some fans argued that Wanda's death was an example of a minority character being killed off because the author subconsciously didn't want them in his story. Gaiman defended himself on similar "needs of the story" grounds to ME, but also argued that in his universe being a god didn't necessarily imply that you weren't a dumb bigot.
If we assume that the Hellmouth creates the conditions where the worst possible events happen, then Tara's death and Willow's frenzy become yet further examples of what should not happen in a just universe. I hope that this approach might be more comfortable in reading the "message" of Season 6.
[> [> [> Oh ****! Massive apologies to everyone -- KdS, 05:31:33 07/12/02 Fri
Sorry, bit new at this posting thing. My handle above should be KdS, which has a purely personal meaning, not KdF, which I notice has very nasty connotations (which I completely disassociate myself from).
[> Addiction, Temptation and the two triads -- darrenK, 11:09:05 07/11/02 Thu
Yesterday, I sent the following to the author:
I completely agree that the "temptations of power" storyline was more interesting than the "addiction to magic" storyline. Mutant Enemy obviously decided to switch them so as not to completely lose Willow. Addiction can be an excuse for her actions, i.e. she was not herself, but a character who gives into the lust for power has always been shown to be virtually unredeemable, e.g. Darth Vader, Sauron, um, Nixon.
The problem is that I believe that the "temptation" storyline was the natural one, the one that flowed most organically from Season 2 to Season 6 and I believe it to be the storyline we "needed." Addiction has been done better elsewhere and it felt shoehorned into the plot. It felt false and falseness is something that the Buffy storyline has been great at avoiding despite, or maybe because of, all the absurd devices in their plots.
I can only say that this choice was disappointing and that I hope that in all of the brouhaha over Tara's death someone has managed to make this point to Mutant Enemy.
In the temptation storyline, Tara wouldn't necessarily have had to die. She might have even been the one to oppose Dark Willow. This would have been interesting considering what an armpiece her character spent two years being. And if Mutant Enemy had still wanted to kill her they could have had Willow do it. But, once more, that goes two shades darker than a redeemable Willow could get.
On the flip side of things, while the addiction/temptation storyline is done and there is no redeeming it, the Willow story isn't over and until it is, I don't believe the Tara storyline to truly be over. While I don't believe that Mutant Enemy would or should resurrect her, I think that there has been plenty of foreshadowing to suggest that she might act as some sort of guiding spirit for Buffy and the Scoobies. Her offscreen narration of the last third of Restless is the most extreme example of this.
The following is a more religious/mythic interpretation of what happened and has been lost among the din ignited by the social implications of the storyline. The writers took great care this season set up two opposing triads. On one side was the Trio––Warren, Andrew and Jonathan. They were evil, male, greedy, socially inept, irresponsible and destructive. Warren was the LEADER, the most purely evil of the three. The other two were DOMINATED by him, but while aspiring to be evil, they were conflicted, having to wrestle with the good parts of their nature. In the end, Jonathan to a certain extent chose good and tried to redeem himself.
Set against them was another trio––Tara, Buffy and Willow. They were good, female, altruistic, impoverished, and loyal. Tara was not their leader. She was their PARAGON, the responsible witch Willow wasn't and the good mother to Dawn that Buffy hadn't learned to be. She was an EXAMPLE to the other two, what they aspired to be while they wrestled with their addictions and irresponsibility; the evil parts of their characters. In the end, Willow gave in to her temptations and become evil.
Buffy has always been the leader of the Scoobies, but no image showed Tara's new position and moral authority like the end of Doublemeat Palace: Buffy on her knees in front of Tara (in the position of the Madonna) begging Tara NOT to forgive her, but Tara is compassion and can't help but forgive her.
While it's an obtuse point in the face of the social implications, the Evil Leader of the male Trio martyred the Paragon of the Female Trio, damning him, certainly, but also setting Tara up to be a patron saint of the Scoobies, the example they will never reach.
Until we see what they do with this we won't know the true reason that Mutant Enemy killed Tara.
Thanks for reading.
dK
[> [> Re: Addiction, Temptation and the two triads -- Finn Mac Cool, 11:17:19 07/11/02 Thu
This reflects many of my views on the matter, though expressed much more eleoquently, and I missed the Tara as Paragon thing.
In my view, Tara had to be killed because 1)it demonized Warren to the extent that killing him isn't instant damnation, and 2)we're shown that Willow wasn't corrupted by power, but driven mad by loss and rage.
[> [> Re: I agree on some point, but -- Sang, 12:46:42 07/11/02 Thu
I agree that ME choose addiction and Tara's death over temptation of power because if it was the other way, Willow could not be redeemed. If they choose Willow to be corrupt by power and go against Buffy, it is another Faith story. If that happens, like Faith, Darth Vadar, Sauron or Nixon, Willow should be killed or neutralized. But we (or ME) cannot loose Willow. So the temptation story was out of question from the beginning.
But I don't agree with many people that temptation storyline is more natural than addiction story. In real life, they are not that so distinguishable. And it is not that natural that the corruption can turn a nice and caring person like Willow or Buffy into real muderous villan who will fight her best friend and destory the world.
Anyway, the magick is the most unnatural thing, this is basically messing with natural order which should be respected. If you are using some unnatural substance for your own pleasure, it can end up with horrible addiction.
I think ME had tackled really difficult storyline here, they planed Willow going against her best friend and becoming evil. On the other hand, they want bring her back in the end. One other thing, in my guess, they might want was that the evil Willow should still be Willow, not Angel/Angelus business again.
Only way they could pull it off was make Willow refrained her desire of power reluctantly (addiction storyline), thus in unstable status, and throw her the worst disaster (Tara's sudden brutal death) so she explode and cannot control herself anymore and completely give in to the power.
I read many articles about alternatvie stories which Willow end up as evil but no addiction or death. None of them seems to work unless you want loose Willow for good or destory our belief in goodness of Willow.
Though I think people who shiped Tara/Willow can still argue that ME could choose other storyline which Willow is not going totally evil.
I understand that there are some angry people and some of them did nasty and harmful remarks. I think that's the reaction of people who felt lonely in this world and someday found something very beautiful and fell in love, then suddenly taken away loved one brutally. Just like Willow.
By the way, have you noticed that? Regular recurring guest who stay more than one season and cannot make on regular cast eventually killed. Principle Snyder, Ms. Calender, Joyce Summers, Tara. On the other hand, anyone who made regular hasn't been killed, they just left. Eventhough Faith, Jonathan, Harmony, Drusilla each appeared more than one season, they were not regular guests except for other seasons.
[> [> [> Re: I agree on some point, but -- Finn Mac Cool, 15:07:17 07/11/02 Thu
Except for Warren. He appeared a little in Season 5 and was a regular in Season Six, but he got killed (maybe the rules change if you're big with the evil).
[> [> [> [> Re: Warren was not credited -- Sang, 20:19:56 07/11/02 Thu
I meant regular cast as a credited, and regular guest as a regular but not on the credit. Warren was killed just for one season of regular guest not regular cast. He was in just two episodes in season 5.
[> [> [> [> [> Good to see ya again, Sang :-) -- Caesar Augustus, 20:53:29 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> A different view -- Caesar Augustus, 20:59:24 07/11/02 Thu
To me, the temptation storyline was thematically inconsisent with the rest of the season.
Temptation of power, abuse of power, that was addressed very thoroughly in season 3 (Faith, Mayor, Watcher's council, ...)
Season 6 was more about addiction (and withdrawal) - Buffy's addiction to Spike, Spike's to Buffy, Willow's to magic, Dawn's to escapism, etc. For me this should have been continued rather than reverting to an old theme - granted, they're intertwined in the case of magic, but at the climax of Willow's threat, the addiction theme was abandoned for the temptation theme. This probably does make it easier to forgive her, but in my opinion is stylistically weaker.
[> [> I agree -- Wizardman, 22:16:55 07/11/02 Thu
I agree with you about Tara and Warren. Tara was given a special mystical significance as far back as 'Restless.' Also, isn't it interesting that of all the Scoobies, it was Tara that was 'sacrificed' to Glory in 'Tough Love?' Granted, she chose her fate herself, but she sacrificed herself to save Dawn, and by extension, the world. Hers was the example which Buffy followed in 'The Gift.' That makes an even stronger case for Tara as the Scoobies' patron saint and guiding light. For my part... I loved Tara. I still do. I hope that we see her again as a spirit guide- except for Cordelia and Wes, every character that has left Buffy, in one way or another, came back for at least one last hurrah, even Principal Snyder. I'm upset that she died, but I'm also still upset that Jenny and Joyce died. You've more than earned it, so rest in peace, ladies- you are greatly loved and sorely missed.
The friendship ring -- plainjane, 08:59:04 07/10/02 Wed
I dont know if this as been talked about before but i have a
? about the ring that Angel wears. I was watching the episode where the ghost of a teen and his teacher lover are in a timeloop and i noticed that at the end when Buffy and Angel are acting out the death scene Angel is still wearing his friendship ring I thought his first impulse once he was Angelus was to get rid of anything or anyone that made him feel human so, why he is still wearing the friendship ring? Is this a mistake by the producers?
[> Re: The friendship ring -- Lyonors, 09:27:48 07/10/02 Wed
If you think about the original concept of the claddagh ring, as stated by Angel in Surprise...
Angel: My people -- before I was changed -- they exchanged this as a sign of devotion. It's a claddagh ring. The hands represent friendship, the crown represents loyalty... and the heart... Well, you know... Wear it with the heart pointing towards you. It means you belong to somebody. Like this. (Quote thanks to Psyche!) *At this point you see he is wearing his with the heart pointing towards his knuckle*
Then you would notice he was wearing it with the heart pointed outwards, IE he doesnt belong to someone...
Ly
[> [> Good eye! -- Masq, 10:37:47 07/10/02 Wed
Surely someone could get an essay out of the symbolism of this one!
[> [> [> Re: Good eye! -- Lyonors, 13:55:50 07/10/02 Wed
I feel an essay coming on! But it will have to wait until my newly minted Angel tapes arrive from Masq so I can check on his wearing of it in AtS! And, just for the record, I'm not usually that much of a detail hound, I just happen to wear a claddagh myself....so I always notice how a hot guy is wearing his....even if he is on TV and evil...what was it that Cordy said about the only good difference between Angel and Angelus..."hello! leather pants!" *laughs to herself*
Ly
[> [> Re: Claddagh ring -- Alex, 15:49:28 07/10/02 Wed
Love (the heart), faith in friendship (the hands), and loyalty (the crown), are all symbolized by the Claddagh ring. Traditionally, the Claddagh ring can be worn three different ways. When placed on the right hand with the heart facing out, the wearers' heart is still searching. When placed on the right hand with the heart facing in, there are possibilities. And when worn on the LEFT hand with the heart facing in, the wearers' heart is promised forever
1--On the right hand, crown in heart out, the wearer is free as the birds in the sky. If you want her, go a courtin'.
2--On the right hand, crown out heart in, the lass is spoken for, so lay off.
3--On the left hand, place of choice, heart in crown out, she is happily married for evermore.
[> [> [> Buffy & Angel were "engaged" - Angelus didn't wear jewellery -- Scroll, 19:44:29 07/10/02 Wed
There's a lot of fanfic out there that says Buffy and Angel were actually married when they exchanged rings in "Surprise", but according to my sources, since they were wearing the rings on their right hands, they were only 'engaged'.
"Worn on the right hand, heart facing out, the ring tells that the wearer's heart has yet to be won; while worn on right hand with the heart facing inwards declares that the wearer's heart is already taken. Finally, when true love is requited, the Claddagh ring is traditionally worn on the left hand as a wedding or commitment ring with the heart facing inwards."
- my heart turned out 'til your love turned it 'round; 'til from my right to my left, with this ring I thee wed.
I didn't notice that Angelus wore the ring with the heart pointing outward (hangs head in unobservant shame) but I know that Angel still wore the ring in "City Of", the first episode of Angel. At the end of that episode, he makes a phone call to Buffy (she picks up phone in "The Freshman" but other line doesn't speak, she hangs up). By the next episode, Angel has taken off the ring.
Angelus never wears jewellery in any of the flashbacks we've seen so far. Angel on Buffy wore the claddagh ring and another silver ring, and sometimes a chain. Angel on Angel never wears any jewellery (other than the claddagh ring in "City Of", the Ring of Amarra in "In the Dark", and the Band of Blacknil in "Reprise"). Hmm, maybe I am observant after all. If I'm wrong, please let me know!
[> [> [> Heart, Hands, Crown (Head ?)... now what does it make you think of ? -- Ete, 07:06:00 07/11/02 Thu
Nah, that's too far fetched, though, really it looks like the same symboles from Primeval/Restless of Animus,Manus, Sophus... it just lacks Spiritus... the soul ?
[> [> [> [> Re: Heart, Hands, Crown (Head ?)... now what does it make you think of ? -- Lyonors, 08:46:27 07/11/02 Thu
Well, there's a thought! I bet we could use the origin of the ring finger of the left hand as a placement for the wedding ring to round out that spirit bit! Somebody...help me...Egyptian in origin isnt it? Something about there being a vein that runs .. .... dangit...comeon some kind of reference to the spirit being held in the heart! Its a stretch, but i know we can twist it! ;o)
Ly.
[> [> [> [> [> vein of love -- purplegrrl, 09:35:00 07/11/02 Thu
The tradition of wearing a wedding ring on the ring finger of the left hand is Egyptian in origin. They believed that the vein of love/desire ran from the body into that finger. By wearing a wedding ring on that finger, the vein of love was fettered and the wearer would remain true to their mate.
[> Noticed that too... -- Darby, 09:36:16 07/10/02 Wed
It's hard to imagine that it was accidental - I doubt that DB wore it except as Angel, so wouldn't it have come up with the Angelus storyline? "Hey, Joss, should I still be wearing the ring?" - And, along the motivational lines you cite, can you imagine what a fit the WB would have pitched if ME decided that Angel needed to grow his hair out as Angelus? Get back to his roots (sorry)?
Perhaps there's a backstory - is Angelus shown wearing it in any of the historical scenes? Could it date back to Liam, or Drusilla? If there isn't a backstory, there should be!
Does Angel still wear the ring on his own show?
And while we're at it, I wouldn't mind reviving discussion on the lack of wedding rings in As You Were... I did notice a total lack of jewelry on the commandos, which would fit the simplest non-conspiracy explanation...
[> [> Re: Noticed that too... -- Purple Tulip, 10:13:00 07/10/02 Wed
Hmmm...perhaps I need to go back and re-watch Fool for Love and Becoming to see the Angelus flashbacks---the whole ring thing makes me curious now.
[> [> [> Re: Noticed that too... -- Ronia, 10:26:53 07/10/02 Wed
I read a while ago in an article that the ring was a gift from his wife...and they just wrote it into the show...can't back it up though, just what I heard...
[> [> [> Oh, God, I just imagined a flurry of emails . . . - - d'Herblay, 13:28:30 07/10/02 Wed
. . . between the members of the Fanged Four fanfic crew, debating whether Angelus wore the ring, how he wore the ring, on what appendage he might have worn the ring . . .
[> [> [> [> ...appendage? any appendage? hmmm ;-) -- redcat's evil twin, 13:41:05 07/10/02 Wed
[> [> [> [> Not if we imagine... -- Masq, 13:48:54 07/10/02 Wed
That souled Angel bought the rings from the local Sunnydale jewelry store or pawn shop shortly before Buffy's birthday. That would explain Angelus' still wearing it later in IOHEFY- -his obsession with Buffy, plus as Lyonors points out, he's not wearing it with the heart pointing towards him anymore (he no longer belongs to her).
Ergo, old Angelus didn't have any claddaugh rings.
[> [> [> [> Thanks, dH -- LadyStarlight, 14:43:08 07/10/02 Wed
Now I have a picture in my head I'm never getting rid of. And I'm not even writing with that crew!
[> [> [> [> [> I could have my Clone do a forgetting spell... ;-) -- The Third Evil, 05:19:42 07/11/02 Thu
Unfortunately, his 'spells' usually involves large quantities of hard liquor, so your results may vary.
(Hey, he's a clone, whad'ya expect, magic?)
;-)
[> [> [> [> [> [> Yes please. -- LadyStarlight, 09:07:45 07/11/02 Thu
And thank the Evil Clone for me. ;)
[> [> Re: Noticed that too... -- SableHart, 20:56:32 07/10/02 Wed
I actually read on some random website (a while ago) that in an interview on late night TV, DB was wearing the ring. So maybe it really does have some personal significance to him?
[> [> AYW lack of rings... -- shadowkat, 06:25:07 07/11/02 Thu
"And while we're at it, I wouldn't mind reviving discussion on the lack of wedding rings in As You Were... I did notice a total lack of jewelry on the commandos, which would fit the simplest non-conspiracy explanation..."
I have an explanation for that one. In some situations, people go without wedding rings. Particularly if you're secret agents or demon hunters. In the military - they want you to put the military or commando squad firs, wife/husband second. You are married first to the service.
This is why many spouses aren't stationed together in the real military - according to a friend of mine. (Not completely sure of the accuracy of this.)
So - say you are secret agent Riley and secret agent Sam
and you get in an enemy situation. The enemy sees these matching rings and thinks oh-hoh! I can get Riley, by torturing his wife. If he doesn't see the rings, then he has no clue the two are connected.
In short - when we see them in Sunnydale, they are just passing through, on a top secret mission, in battle gear, not in the roles of husband and wife. They only let down their guard b/c they amongst friends. But notice that Riley
didn't reveal all this up front with Buffy - which makes sense, Riley was trained from early days of the Initiative to keep things to himself. What you reveal can be used against you. He's undercover here. Tracking a dangerous monster over a large territory. He's not going to reveal that his partner is his wife unless absolutely necessary - could put her in all sorts of danger.
[> [> Real-verse vs. Buffy-verse -- purplegrrl, 09:39:27 07/11/02 Thu
I believe DB used to wear a claddagh ring in real life -- when he was married to his first wife, who is Irish. Perhaps Joss chose to incorporate the DB's ring into Angel/Angelus' past or maybe it was just happy coincidence.
Hope for Season 7 -- Drizzt, 12:37:48 07/10/02 Wed
WARNING!
I am a troll; do not talk to me.
I am in love with Buffy...
Okay about season 7; I hope Buffy gets a good boyfreind who does not abandon or betray her in season 7. There is a stereotype in action movies; the hero(macho male usually)saves the day, then gets the damsel in distress. Buffy has "Saved the World a LOT". I think she has earned some happiness; she is plenty heroic.
I have hope that Buffy will be happy at the end of season 7.
I do wonder what twist on stereotypes the writers have planned for season 7?
[> Re: Hope for Season 7 -- Brian, 13:21:04 07/10/02 Wed
Perhaps that is the bottom line for BtVS. There is always hope: Hope that couples will find a way to be together; hope that those characters who have strayed, or are lost, will be redeemed; and hope that each character will find some kind of happiness. Just as in our own hearts we always hope for new beginnings, for another chance to get it right.
[> [> Re: Hope for Season 7 -- GreatRewards, 13:27:02 07/10/02 Wed
Perhaps they'll introduce an older character named Hope. And she'll have a cute high school son named... Raymond. Raymond gets romatically involved with Dawnie and they have their first "sexual" experience together.
Then someone could come up with some really corny line about the "Dawn"ing of a Ray of Hope.
Or not. ;-)
[> [> [> "Dawn"ing a Ray of Hope? LOL -- Drizzt, 13:33:24 07/10/02 Wed
That reminds me of an old comment during season 5...
"Dawn is the Cosmic Blood Clot of the Buffyverse"
I paraphrased the original comment since I do not remember the original.
[> [> Re: Hope for Season 7 -- MayaPapaya9, 22:53:34 07/10/02 Wed
"Hope that couples will find a way to be together; hope that those characters who have strayed, or are lost, will be redeemed"
I just had to say, nice use of Becoming Pt. 2 there...lol.
[> Some regulars here talked to me...cool:) -- Drizzt, 13:58:28 07/10/02 Wed
[> [> Re: Some regulars here talked to me...cool:) -- GreatRewards, 15:12:54 07/10/02 Wed
I guess I'm not "regular" enough, because I have no idea why you wouldn't expect people here to talk to you. Did you do something wrong?
All I know is I like your name. I've read a number of books starring the infamous Dark Elf and think he's pretty darn cool.
:-)
[> [> [> Re: Some regulars here talked to me...cool:) -- Drizzt, 19:36:14 07/10/02 Wed
Yes I did make some mistakes...
My first post here(wich incidentally was my first post EVER on any discussion board) was trollish in nature; got no response, so I stayed On Topic for three or four months. Became an accepted regular myself...then acted trollish again.
Ummm...that was mostly last year though.
Who is Spike Now? (Spoilers from last season) -- Alex, 15:43:24 07/10/02 Wed
We usually like to think of Angel and Angelus as two different people. And we don't like to blame Angel for the sins of Angelus.
So, my question is who is Spike now? Just like Angel has a different personality than Angelus, shouldn't souled Spike be significantly different than souless or even chipped Spike.
And can we hold this "souled Spike" in anyway accountable for anything that Spike has done up to this point (including the attempted rape of Buffy)?
Liam-Angulus-Angel.
How do we consider this? One person? Three?
Now we have William-Spike-Chipped Spike-Souled Spike.
Again who is Spike now? And should this new Spike be forgiven of all the past deeds of the Spike we have seen up to this point?
[> Re: Who is Spike Now? (Spoilers from last season) - - Dichotomy, 18:51:42 07/10/02 Wed
This question has always haunted me, and I asked it a long time ago on a different board and was told in no uncertain terms by many posters: Spike Bad (because he had no soul), Angel Good (because he does).
Now right off the bat, I'll admit I'm very intrigued by Spike and like his character. But even so, I've never understood the whole concept of Angel being good and worthy and excused for past horrors and all that by virtue of his good deeds AND his soul, and Spike being eeevil, even given his acts of kindness and bravery, because he is chipped and has no soul. If Angel is a different being than Angelus, then why should he feel the guilt at all? Very confusing to me, but no doubt someone can explain it.
Of course I realize it's not so simple: there's the whole issue of motivation (Spike does good because he loves Buffy; Angel does good to atone for his past) and ability (Spike doesn't hurt humans because the chip prevents it; Angel could eat humans, but doesn't because his morals now prevent it). So I do understand that the question of Spike's goodness is open to debate (and debated it has been, quite often!)
In the end, I don't know who Spike is now, but it seems to me that if Angelus isn't considered quite the same being as Angel, then Spike shouldn't be considered the same being as resouled Spike--who should be held accountable for his actions from the resouling onward. If not, then wouldn't that mean that Angel was forgiven too quickly for all that he did as Angelus (after the moment of perfect happiness, anyway)?
Now I've gone and confused myself! Someone throw me a, a ..... floaty water ring thingy, for when you can't swim. (Apparently I've short circuited the area of my brain responsible for vocabulary.)
[> [> Re: Who is Spike Now? (Spoilers from last season) - - Finn Mac Cool, 19:27:15 07/10/02 Wed
Actually, the popular opinion is that Angel is a hybrid of the human Liam and the demon Angelus. He feels guilt because Angelus is still inside of him.
Joss has promised Spike will not be like Angel. He may be like Faith (can't handle the guilt so tries very hard to be evil). However, I'm betting it's something else that I don't have a clue about.
[> [> [> Whatever ME want him to be -- Caesar Augustus, 20:18:23 07/10/02 Wed
Possibilities:
1. Spike will be good now, human soul 'n all
question: will he brood (nah, it's been done)
then what WILL he do? he did a lot of GOOD as chipped Spike too, so he won't be keen to just think 'I was a different person'.
2. Spike will be much the same, since Spike's demonic soul is amoral, and so is William's. This is my theory, but far from universally accepted.
3. Spike could even be more EVIL (according to some very wacky theories I've heard - they say that Spike had gained a human soul because of his good deeds, and was restored his DEMONIC soul)
3 is too wacky for me, but would, granted, be a classic ME twist. 1 is likeliest, but will it leave Spike personalitiless? 2 is what I would do if I was a writer - think of Spike's demonic soul and human soul actually CO- EXISTING, unlike Angel having to fight off Angelus. Maybe William's human soul will simply add to Spike's soul rather than negating it.
But, bottom line, no way to know until season 7 hits our screens. (unless you're an evil spoiler trollop)
[> [> [> [> Re: Whatever ME want him to be -- Alex, 21:07:34 07/10/02 Wed
"2. Spike will be much the same, since Spike's demonic soul is amoral, and so is William's"
I never saw William as being amoral. Liam was amoral, but we really don't know about William. We do know he was a very, very, very bad poet though.
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Whatever ME want him to be -- Finn Mac Cool, 21:44:16 07/10/02 Wed
Most vampires have expressed what some might call a reverse conscience. They are compelled to do evil the same way humans are compelled to do good. Spike, however, appears simply to have no scruples or morals whatsoever, mixed in with a lust for blood. One theory goes that William was amoral, and it carried over into Spike.
Also, I'm not sure you could call Liam amoral. I mean, have we ever seen him when he wasn't drunk? And, if a flashback of Angel has shown that, what exactly did he do that would hint at amorality? I'd say Liam was corrupt, but amoral is going too far.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Amoral vs. Immoral -- Lyonors, 08:41:25 07/11/02 Thu
I once had an English teacher that explained to me the difference between Immoral and Amoral...Thank you Mrs. Nonnenburg!
By her definitions, and trust me, she's probably right...
Immoral means going against the widely held moral standards of a given society.
Amoral means not understanding or caring about the widely held moral standards of a given society and doing whatever pleases the individual.
So my question would be to everyone who has made a statement about Spike's morality...which do _you_ think he is?
Ly.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Amoral -- Finn Mac Cool, 08:48:24 07/11/02 Thu
I think Spike is amoral. He likes to kill humans, but will just as easily kill demons. He may often seem more immoral than amoral, but that's only because he's an amoral creature who also has the vampiric blood lust, therefore immoral actions tend to benefit him best. Meanwhile, guys like Angel or the Master pursue evil almost religiously and would never consider helping the good guys, no matter how it might benefit them. Spike has no such qualms.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Amoral -- Rahael, 09:00:28 07/11/02 Thu
Doesn't Spike take pleasure in violence/bad things precisely because it contravenes the moral codes of society?
Doesn't he have the capability of seeing right and wrong, and understanding what each is?
"Because it's wrong!"
(And on a complete aside. While writing this out, I just got a phone call - I've been selected for that interview, that a couple of you know I've been waiting on tenterhooks for: Wooo Hoooo!!!!.)
Now I have to think up a presentation. Nerves!!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Spike's Actions -- Finn Mac Cool, 09:14:36 07/11/02 Thu
Spike knows what HUMANS consider to be good and evil. He is inherently amoral, but he enjoys violence and drinking blood, causing him to do evil things. A truly immoral creature, if stopped from killing humans, would not fight demons, since that would be right. Spike doesn't have a problem with that.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Lost honour among thieves....... -- Rahael, 09:34:18 07/11/02 Thu
Vampires still love. They have likes, dislikes, tender moments. They believe in rituals, loyalty, courage....
Spike does understand the pleasure of breaking rules simply because it's cool. He cares about proper behaviour. He cares that he made a promise 'to a lady'. He cares about what really constitutes 'rebellious' behaviour, and what's simply moronic (All the Way).
So it's not that he's above all rules, he just takes pleasure in breaking some and irritating people like Xander.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> OT: Congrats! And good luck! -- shadowkat, 10:02:41 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Can I get a whoo! and maybe even a hooo! -- d'Herblay, 11:35:06 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Congrats, Rah! And good luck! -- Masq, 06:48:15 07/12/02 Fri
We'll miss your contribution to the fff this round, but contrary to troll-guy up there in the Margarita thread, we do have lives and they are important!
Keeping you in my thoughts!
Masq
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> sure! although it'd help... -- anom, 09:15:56 07/12/02 Fri
...if I had some slight idea of what the hell you're talking about! Interview? What interview? For what?
In any case, good luck w/whatever it is!
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: A whoo hoo -- aliera, 12:48:17 07/11/02 Thu
The very best of wishes to you Rahael.
As someone who simply visits here but feels gifted by the opportunity to read your posts, I have been wanting for some time to thank you. They are elegantly done, often thought provoking and lately have touched the heart.
May all good things come to you.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Congratulations, Rah!!!! Best of luck!! (and a third on those whooos and hooos, too -- redcat, 13:24:45 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Yay you ! -- Ete, 13:34:55 07/11/02 Thu
and on topic, I think Spike does more things because he enjoys them than because they're contraire to the moeurs.
An interresting exception is the way he talks and overall appearance.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Thank you all! Need all the luck I can get -- Rahael, 13:40:01 07/11/02 Thu
It's really rather cheeky of me to try for it - but I've been emboldened. Nothing ventured........
and Aliera, a very touched thank you to you...I have enjoyed your posts these last few weeks.
On topic - Ete you may be quite right. Perhaps he isn't quite either? He probably likes to see himself as amoral - I think Angelus would love to see himself as immoral.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Good luck, Rah! -- LadyStarlight, 14:41:46 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Congratulations! -- Arethusa, 15:23:01 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Amoral vs. Immoral -- Lyonors, 10:02:53 07/11/02 Thu
To go along with this question I put forth this example of what I consider Spikes Amorality:
From Becoming Part II (Thanks to Psyche's Transcripts)
**Note: Shortly after Spike's little Happy Meals with Legs Speech that we all love so much! ;o)**
Spike: I can't fight them both alone, and neither can you!
Buffy punches him hard in the jaw, making him flinch. He straightens back up and feels his jaw, checking for blood.
Buffy: I hate you.
Spike: And I'm all you've got.
The police officer begins to stir on the hood of the car.
Buffy: (looks down briefly) All right. Talk.
Spike: (turns to the officer) I'm just gonna kill this guy.
Buffy clears her throat loudly. Spike faces her.
Spike: Oh, right.
*****
Just a bit o' fuel for the fire...I'm interested in hearing some more examples either way.
Ly
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> After watching Becoming 2 ... -- Caesar Augustus, 19:21:59 07/11/02 Thu
It's very hard to choose immorality over amorality.
Spike has a few passions which are on the immoral side, such as his desire for killing Slayers, but he doesn't seem to have a passion for immorality itself.
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Hmmmmm I pick...........Both........:):):) -- Rufus, 04:17:59 07/12/02 Fri
After all Spike's motivated by both the human and demon in him...so to me some of his actions are immoral, some amoral...depending on how you look at them.
[> [> [> "Actually, the popular opinion is..." Aha!! Now I understand your surety. You work for Gallup... -- redcat, taking your advice & reading your other posts :-), 15:16:27 07/11/02 Thu
[> We won't find out until sweeps next season. -- LeeAnn, 23:20:45 07/10/02 Wed
Souled Spike (spoilers for season 6, well only a little bit) -- Seasmucker, 20:13:10 07/10/02 Wed
I’ve been lurking here for a long time and I’ve really come to like this board, so I was wondering what you guys would have to say about a few thoughts I’ve been having.
One of my favorite themes in BTVS has always been the evolution of the perception of good and evil. I’ve always thought that the portrayal of humans and demons through the seasons on this show greatly parallels the way we see the world as we grow up.
In the beginning of season 1, good vs evil is metaphorically represented by humans vs demons/vampires. Then, through Angel, the vampire with a soul, the show presents the essence of what makes humans good and what makes demons evil. Basically, humans are good because they have a soul, while demons are evil because they do not.
Having established that distinction, the show went on to blur the lines between good and evil by pushing the boundaries of what souled and unsouled beings are capable of. Pushing the boundary of the Souled were Faith, Professor Walsh, Ben and now Willow, to name a few. Doing the work for the Unsouled, we’ve seen Whistler, Clem, and of course, Spike. Through these characters, the comfortable black and white world of Buffy has become increasingly ambiguous with all sorts of exciting shades of grey.
The point of my rambling is this: What if having a soul MAKES Spike evil? Or at least more evil than he’s ever been?
I think the idea has potential for several reasons. First, it would be the natural final point for the ramifications of having a soul. We’ve come from seeing a soul as being automatically good to seeing that a soul doesn’t prevent a being from doing considerable evil. I would think that the next obvious step would be to show that a soul can actually inspire evil. Second, I’m sure that the writers are very aware of distinguishing Angel from souled Spike, and this is a good a method as any.
Angel and Spike(the souled version) are in a unique position in the Buffyverse in that they go against the natural order of things. Vampires aren’t supposed to have souls. So, when a vampire gains a soul, we can see its purest effect. By making souled Spike evil, besides providing a perfect counterpoint to Angel, the writers can show that a soul, while a powerful catalyst, does not necessarily make one evil or good. Regardless of our natural inclinations, it is in the end a choice that we must make. I say this because the importance of choices is another thing I’ve always like about BTVS, but that’s another post.
Thoughts? Comments?
[> UUmmm ... are you saying William was evil? -- Caesar Augustus, 20:23:54 07/10/02 Wed
If you're suggesting that Spike's human soul will make him evil, that would mean William was evil. Not sure about that.
As I mentioned somewhere else, it would be a great twist plotwise, but I don't see it making much sense if his human soul turns him evil. Maybe his demonic soul ...
[> [> Re: UUmmm ... are you saying William was evil? -- Seasmucker, 20:30:44 07/10/02 Wed
I'm not saying William was evil, only that the human personality doesn't seem very well associated with the souled-vampire personality. I mean, I don't really see a resemblance between Liam and Angel, ya know? So I don't think that souled Spike has to resemble William.
[> [> [> Souls and Spike's future (Speculation based on very nebulous spoiler reports) -- KdS, 05:02:37 07/11/02 Thu
I don't really agree with the concept of an "evil soul". The way I tend to interpret souls in BtVS/AtS is that they allow one access to the full moral spectrum (so vampires and evil demons are inherently evil, but that actively good soulless entities like Whistler and possibly Lorne and Skip would be incapable of real evil). Spike always seemed amorally predatory, rather than consciously evil like Angelus or Darla, and I think that he really isn't ready for what a conscience will do to him.
While Angel got cursed as a punishment by someone else, Spike did it himself, in hope of reward. If after all that he doesn't get Buffy, or if getting Buffy doesn't outweigh the downside, I have a horrible feeling that Spike will slide into denial and nihilism like Faith post-GD, possibly to a Big Bad extent.
JW has been quoted as saying that Season 7's Big Bad will be "everyone's worst nightmare" (or words to that effect). A Spike seeking revenge on the SG and/or the world for his pain, or simply wanting everything to be over a la Willow, would fulfil this in all kinds of ways.
At the shallowest level, it would mean an enemy who had been close enough to everyone to know their weak spots. It would be a massive personal betrayal for Dawn. It would create an even worse moral dilemma for the SG than Warren Mears - a souled entity deserviong of redemption rather than death, but with full-scale demonic power. Most spectacularly, for Buffy it would be yet another person "gone bad" due partially to her own actions.
Of course, I'm probably competely wrong. This being BtVS, the first big test for Spike's future will be if he's smoking the first time we see him...
[> [> [> [> Smoke Alarm Spoilers Season 6 & 7, + Spoiler Speculation -- Arethusa, 05:52:56 07/11/02 Thu
"This being BtVS, the first big test for Spike's future will be if he's smoking the first time we see him..."
Heehee.
My crackpot theory: The First Evil comes back, using Tara's image to manifest. Willow et al have to fight something with Tara's face and form. That would be everyone's worst nightmare, and back to the very beginning.
And from some interviews I read at slayage.com, I got the impression new-and-improved-Spike will be very similar to Spike, and not overwhelmed by guilt. Has Spike ever blamed himself for anything?
All just guesswork, of course.
[> [> [> [> Everyone's worst nightmare?(Speculation based on very nebulous spoiler reports) -- shygirl, 11:56:18 07/11/02 Thu
Seems to me everyone's worst nightmare would be Giles not Spike. People seem to expect the worst from Spike, but they don't expect it from Giles.. who is everyone's "Daddy"
[> [> [> [> [> Re: Everyone's worst nightmare?(Speculation based on very nebulous spoiler reports) -- Thomas the Skeptic, 13:30:43 07/11/02 Thu
Here's my vote for Giles as "worst nightmare". I read Christopher Golden's serial novel "The Lost Slayer" a few months ago and the central theme of the book was what would Sunnydale be like five years from now if Giles were to become a vampire? Believe me, he turned it into a literal hell on earth. The scenes of VampGiles, with all of his intelligence, wisdom and dry British wit intact but without compassion or conscience, were positively chilling.
[> Re: Souled Spike (spoilers for season 6, well only a little bit) -- Purple Tulip, 06:26:13 07/11/02 Thu
I like your ideas. I was kind if thinking that when Spike comes back with a soul, that he will not be any different, and this will go to prove to Buffy that he really was good all along. It would show that Spike didn't need a soul to be a good "person" because the love that he had for Buffy was enough to make him really want to change, which is stronger than just winning some trials.
Buffy the animated series -- Jimmy, 10:00:04 07/11/02 Thu
Does anyone know when Buffy the animated series is going to start? I have heard rumors that it will start in the Fall of this year (2002) and that it will be on FOX Kids. That's all I have heard and I am not even sure if that info is correct. If anyone knows anything please let me know.
Thanks!
[> Re: Buffy the animated series -- Darby, 13:50:05 07/11/02 Thu
It's supposed to be moving back into production (something like within a week of head honcho Jeph Loeb leaving for more certain pastures), but the Fox Kids' deal lapsed and I've forgotten who is underwriting it now. Don't expect it anytime soon.
[> [> Re: Buffy the animated series -- Matthew, 16:46:27 07/11/02 Thu
I read that Jeph Loeb left because the series was toast. I wouldn't expect it at all anymore.
[> [> [> Found the info -- Darby, 19:55:30 07/11/02 Thu
It's at
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2002- 06/19/11.30.tv
it could still be Fox Kids - they don't specify. At least that explains why I couldn't remember.
Was spike trying to get his soul back, or was he trying to go back to being evil? -- briseis, 10:36:00 07/11/02 Thu
I've been away from the board for awhile, and didn't watch the later episodes of the seasons, after the mid-season break, just read the transcripts, so I might have totally missed contrary intonations, facial expressions, etc. From what I'm reading of recent postings, it seems as if people have concluded that Spike was trying to get his soul back so he could be someone Buffy could accept, but what I concluded reading the transcripts, was that Spike was doing a Faith after his attempted rape of Buffy & when he concluded he wasn't going to be forgiven or accepted by her. That when he said he was going to "give Buffy what she deserved" I assumed he was motivated by a love-turned-to hatred by pride unwilling to face its vulnerability and flaws, and was seeking to regain the power to hurt her. Even though I thought this, as soon as Spike's words were out, "I want to be like I was" I figured this would be a be-careful-what-you- wish for situation, and that he would get his soul back. There is still a question in my mind about whether he only got his soul back, or, unverbalized by the African demon, did he get his soul back in the process of also being completely returned to "what he was",ie. human. Personally, I think that would be really interesting, but I do assume ME wouldn't do that becauseyou can't do as many exciting action TV things with Spike as a human being. One fall from a one-hundred foot tower, and that's it for Spike, for example.
In any event, I was curious as to why everyone thinks Spike was well-intentioned in his African quest.
[> Re: Was spike trying to get his soul back, or was he trying to go back to being evil? -- DL, 12:35:12 07/11/02 Thu
I'm still sorting out what I think about Spike's voyage to Africa, but I can paraphrase an interview with JM.
He said that when he was first instructed on how to play out the African test scenes, he was to do so as though he was trying to get his chip removed. Later, ME told him that he was actually trying to get his soul restored. So it seems like a slight misdirection for the cliffhanger.
That puts Spike where he is a vampire (still a dead body) with a soul (kinda like Angel). But that's where the similarities between the two stop.
Hope that helps you out a little bit!
[> [> Spike's jacket -- Susan, 12:59:09 07/11/02 Thu
Regardless how James Marsters was directed to play the scenes after the AR and in Africa, I find it interesting there are very specific stage directions about his leaving his leather jacket behind (all from Psyche's shooting scripts).
The first time it's mentioned, Spike leaves his black leather jacket behind at Buffy's after the AR scene. Later, when we see Spike in his crypt with Clem, the stage directions state that he still doesn't have the leather jacket.
For me, that implies at least the writers's intention that Spike was evolving from his evil or at least ambiguous self into someone different--still to be determined.
Perhaps it was written so that Spike was unconscious of his choice? Or maybe it was a way to spoiler-proof the scripts? Just a thought.
It'll be interesting to see what Spike will be wearing in the fall....
[> [> [> Re: Spike's jacket -- DL, 13:11:08 07/11/02 Thu
Very interesting...I've not looked at the shooting scripts, but that's a great point. The jacket is obviously a symbol of recklessness, abandon, and to an extent, evil. If he kept leaving it behing, it may have been a silent foreshadow.
Either that, or because it's really, really hot in Africa.
In terms of stage direction, I think they made the right decision in telling JM to play it as he had. It's all speculation, but maybe the director wanted Spike to force himself into believing that he wanted the chip removed while Spike really knew that he wanted a soul. I don't want to see him lose hold of his bad boy image because to me, that image is what differentiates Spike from Angel.
[> [> Sort of Spoilerish in my responses above and below - sorry! -- DL, 13:14:37 07/11/02 Thu
Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Etrangere, 13:32:08 07/11/02 Thu
There's a wicked cool thread about names down there on the board. In an awesome post, fresne has mentionned the fact that few posters used their real name and that this choice reflected a will to say something. So what about we tell why we choose this nickname ?
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- cat, 13:44:37 07/11/02 Thu
Simple, cat has always been my nickname, ever since high school. Sorry, no hidden meanings, no in-depth analysis needed.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Rahael, 13:46:33 07/11/02 Thu
My posting name is the middle name of my mother. Alone in all our family, my sister and I were not given middle names. I think at one point both she and I had made our mother promise that she would give it to us (well, she promised me! I think the other supposed promise has a certain shade of green mendacity about it.) umm yeah, we fight over it.
But I chose it because I liked it, and because it's something of hers. It also has a pleasing ambiguity - it's hard to place geographically. It is simply the native version of the Biblical name Rachel. (I'm not always so pleased that so many people think it's a man's name!)
[> [> I was thinking Rahael Imperial Aerosol Kid -- LeeAnn, 22:09:13 07/11/02 Thu
Till I looked up the spelling: Rael Imperial Aerosol Kid
And the lamb
lies down
on BROAAAADDDDWAAAAAAYYY
[> Analyzing my own board "name"? Navel gazing much? Well, let's give it a shot.... -- cjl, 13:48:37 07/11/02 Thu
"CJL" are my initials. However, it's worth noting that all of my friends and family know me as "JL"--the "C" is the English equivalent of my Hebrew name, a name I never use in everyday conversation. It's on my driver's license and birth certificate. That's it.
So, in a way, "CJL" is my way of presenting myself exactly as I am...and yet, hiding behind a form of alter ego at the same time. Perhaps using the full name allows me to explore aspects of my personality I would never expose in face to face meetings, and write in a style somewhat different from my everyday speech.
It might also be a way of telling the board that "I'm going to be completely upfront with you" about our mutual obsession, but there's a part of myself that's NOT for public consumption.
Hmmm. Not a bad analysis, if I say so myself. And it might have even a shred of credibility, if everybody on the board couldn't simply go to Archive #1 and get my real name off my e-mail address...
[> Ok.. I'll bite. =) -- neaux, 13:51:51 07/11/02 Thu
hmmm... neaux is really part of my name... its pronounced "NO" for the 100th billion time. :P
I rarely capitalize my name because its the end part of my last name (not because of an e e cummings complex)
I think the fact that I use this nickname shows that I am a truthful person but still try to hide who I really am. I only reveal myself to true friends. But it also shows that I am playful. I like puns and witty jokes.. and dont mind being the butt of many jokes. I think it also shows my willingness to find the coolness in myself and be happy with it. It shows pride for my family. I think it also means I'm too lazy to be really creative.
for any more interest in neaux- do a search for "neaux" on the web.
[> I should be starting -- Ete, 13:52:42 07/11/02 Thu
Etrangere means Stranger in french. I first took it on a board dedicaced to George RR Martin's "a song of ice and fire" cycle. In those books Stranger was both the name of a horse of my favorite character Sandor Clegane, and the name of one of the seven God, described as such : "The Stranger is neither male nor female, always the outcast and the wandered from far places"
I like this name because it represents well my persistant feeling of otherness in any group i find myself in. But also an equality in which you meet the others.
[> [> mmm I might have been a bit slow :) -- Ete, 13:58:18 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> funny coincidence, that -- Direwolf, 09:14:12 07/13/02 Sat
I took my name from Martin's A Song of Ice & Fire as well. A direwolf is a kind of a prehistoric wolf, much bigger than modern wolves (though not quite as large as they are depicted in these books). "Ice & Fire" is my favorite fantasy series, and wolves were always my favorite animal, so it wasn't hard to pick, particularly in a site dedicated to a fantasy series.
It's probably a bit pompous, but I see in wolves a kind of honesty and nobility I would have liked to see in myself. They are rough and powerful, but true to their nature. They don't skulk around, but they don't have to show their teeth and fight all the time just to prove something about themselves either. I like that.
My real name? You probably wouldn't believe it WAS a real name, but it's biblical. That's all I have to say...
[> [> [> There's also an Arya Stark who posts sometimes :) - - Ete, 09:24:49 07/13/02 Sat
[> [> [> Re: Wolves -- Brian, 08:52:05 07/14/02 Sun
Wolves are my favorites as well. Nice to know there are more of us.
[> I do it for Johnny! -- ponygirl, 14:05:36 07/11/02 Thu
Took my name from The Outsiders, the book by S. E. Hinton, or the movie by Francis Ford Coppola. It was a big weepfest for me in high school, except for the line "do it for Johnny!" that still cracks me up. A friend and I used to call each other names from the book, except me being a girl switched Ponyboy to 'girl.
Ete! I always thought your name was a Camus reference. See this is great for learning more about each other, thanks for starting the thread.
[> [> Ahhh . . . I always wondered what Julie Brown meant by that . . . -- d'Herblay, 14:38:35 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> Re: referencing "The Homecoming Queen's Got A Gun"??? -- GreatRewards, 15:32:18 07/11/02 Thu
I LOVED the album that song was on!!!!
[> [> [> [> One of my favorite rhyming couplets of all time . . . -- d'Herblay, 16:08:26 07/11/02 Thu
I met a guy, who drives a truck
He can't tell time but he sure can drive
- - Julie Brown, "I Like Them Big and Stupid," Trapped in the Body of a White Girl
Right up there in the roster of hidden rhymes with:You're the cutest of the Scoobies,
With your lips as red as rubies,
And your firm yet supple . . . tight embrace!
Not that "boobies" would have been too risque for UPN. Or am I missing a better reading?
[> [> [> [> [> Earthgirls are easy -- Masq, 18:19:05 07/11/02 Thu
One of my favorite movies of all time. And a cool album to boot.
Or was that just a song on the album and the album was called something else?
Well, you know how long ago I owned Julie Brown songs since I'm calling them "albums".
[> [> [> [> [> Re: One of my favorite rhyming couplets of all time (the sequel) ... -- OnM, 05:07:31 07/12/02 Fri
Then there was the folk-song-format Robin Hood parody (the name of the artist escapes me at the moment, I'll remember it at some totally unrelated time later on today, probably while up on a ladder installing a speaker or something):
The friar's name was Tuck
And he didn't give a damn
No he wouldn't ever help out in a fight
And he wouldn't help 'em hunt
That lazy rotten friar
He'd just sit around and feed himself all night
Oh, Robin was a bloke who owned many bows
Kept 'em all nice and clean
He died in his prime at the age of 46
From a nasty case of eyeball gangrene
(The age of death also changes each verse, and never rhymes with anything, ever).
Your comment about 'boobies' being not too risque for UPN is true, but of course it's not the point. I call on the exemplary example from the great Classic Movie, Who Framed Roger Rabbit:
Roger is handcuffed to Eddie, the hapless detective, and has been dragging him all over the place. They finally locate a hacksaw and are about to cut the handcuffs off when the detective is having trouble holding them steady.
"Here, lemme help you with that", offers Roger, who slips effortlessly out of his end of the handcuffs and holds Eddie's half steady.
Eddie is understandably very irate, and demands that Roger tell him why he didn't do that earlier if he could have.
"I couldn't", Roger replies, very sincerely. "Only when it was funny".
Ah, perfect Toon logic...
Speaking of which, off to work now...
;-)
[> [> [> [> [> [> Roger Rabbit!! One of my fave movies of all-time... -- Rob, 13:01:31 07/12/02 Fri
When will they come out with a special edition DVD of that?!?
Rob
[> [> 'Ete' also means 'Spring'-- care to comment?;) -- SingedCat, 17:54:57 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> actually it means Summer, and yes I care :) -- Ete, 18:18:13 07/11/02 Thu
Since my real name is Anne-Elisa,
and that Buffy is a form of Eisabeth
it means I have the same names meanings than Buffy :
Elisa / Buffy / God has promised
Anne / Anne / Grace
Ete / Summers
[> [> [> Um..er...actually it's "summer" -- julia le prof de francais, 18:18:58 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> Re: "Stay golden, Ponyboy" always made me laugh :) -- Purple Tulip, 06:15:59 07/12/02 Fri
[> [> [> LOL, forgot that one! -- ponygirl, 06:25:37 07/12/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> OT: Outsiders DVD coming out soon, I think. -- Dichotomy, 08:31:29 07/12/02 Fri
I think I read somewhere that the DVD is being released with many deleted scenes. Maybe there'll be some more chuckle- worthy dialogue in those!
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Thomas the Skeptc, 14:05:58 07/11/02 Thu
You might think I took my name from the disciple Thomas who doubted Christ was truly resurrected until he placed his hand into the wound in Christ's side, but actually I
was inspired by Thomas Reid, an 18th century philosopher who doubted the skeptical claims of David Hume. I thought, you can't be more skeptical than to doubt the claims of the father of modern skepticism. Not that I don't believe in anything but I do tend to consider all new information I encounter in a critical light until I feel I have enough knowledge to consider myself informed.
[> Errr,I needed an alias.... -- AurraSing, 14:33:57 07/11/02 Thu
I wanted to post on a local bulletin board that was a political hotbed,but since my hubby is an employee of the civic goverment,I could not use my own name or I would risk getting him canned.....
So I picked the name of a mysterious bounty hunter and have stuck with it for the past 2.5 years.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- redcat, 14:38:24 07/11/02 Thu
My posting name comes from so many places inside (and outside!) me. I grew up a red-haired, hazel-eyed, freckled-faced
kid in a world where everyone else I knew, except a few members of my own family, had black hair, brown eyes and a tan.
As you can imagine, as a kid I was called everything from Carrot-top to Hey!Red, and I’ve a few old friends who still
(affectionately, most of the time) call me Red-let because I’m pretty short and still have an *enormous* amount of red
hair.
I’m also part cat, both by inclination and astrological sign. I lounge extremely well, like sharp objects (I’m the only non-
violence activist I know with an antique sword collection hanging on her walls), tend to fall on the pads of my feet, and
clearly have nine lives, four up which I’ve already used up.
I write my board name without a capital first letter as part of my spiritual practice. My RL first name, given to/taken by
me in my mid-twenties, and which became my legal name over 20 years ago, contains a conscious element that forces me
daily to remember that I’m pretty small in the grand scheme of things, but loved none-the-less. It’s ending, “-ela,” in the
Yiddish on which it is partly based, is an affectionate diminisher, like Bubbelah, meaning precious little grandmother
(although Lorne calling Angel this makes little sense to me), or Kiddelah, meaning precious little child. The small “r”
functions for me in the same way.
And after reflecting on this and the other fabulous recent threads on the board about identity, costumes, names and
cultures, I’m inspired to acknowledge that posting under this name allows me to practice at least two parts of what I most
treasure about myself. Like a good cat, I’m sometimes soft and fuzzy and good to cuddle close to, especially on long,
hard, cold nights. But also, like any good red-haired witch’s red-furred familiar, I can bring out my claws and screech
with the best of them. Well, OK, on THIS board, not with the best of them, but I tag along pretty well...
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- LadyStarlight, 14:39:39 07/11/02 Thu
Well, 'Lady Starlight' is actually a song by the Scorpions. My college boyfriend used to play it for me all the time.
So, I suppose it's a way of recreating/paying tribute to that time in my life.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- PWAC, 14:49:20 07/11/02 Thu
Okay...been lurking for a bit...this is as good a thread as any to pop on and say hi.
PWAC stands for Princess Without a Country.
Boring story...involving my ex...not worth telling.
But I liked the nickname and when trying to think of a name to use in the Buffy fandom that one just popped to mind.
PWAC
[> [> Welcome, your highness! -- redcat, 15:00:49 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> Thanks. -- PWAC, 15:26:07 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> Welcome! ;o) -- Wisewoman`, 08:40:55 07/13/02 Sat
...but I can't help hearing your nick as "Pee-Whack!"
[> I'm really bad with coming up with names. -- Masq, 14:59:08 07/11/02 Thu
Just ask my cats!
(Or my untitled novel)
I would have just gone with the generic "Posting Board Name", but "Masquerade" was shorter.
: )
[> [> BTW......... -- AurraSing, 16:08:20 07/11/02 Thu
As I'm sure LadyStarlight could confirm,I bought a new Greyhound puppy a month ago.
She's 9 months old,about 90% pure white with a blue fawn mask over just her eyes and ears plus some fawn over hear rear.Very lovely,very sweet and it's a total fluke I lucked into finding this breeder because Greyhound breeders (showdogs) are very,very rare up here in Canada.
I got a really good vibe when the breeder had sent me a photo of the litter taken when they were 8 weeks old and this adorable puppy really stood out.....and the breeder told me her name was 'Masquerade' and she was looking for a good family home for her!
For the curious,her registered name will be "Lazuli's Masked Lady of Huzzah" since using "Masquerade" would make the name too long for CKC registration.
I still feel a little odd standing on the back deck and yelling "Masquerade!!" when I need her to come in but she sure is a lovely creature....hopefully she will have a good show career but either way she has made a gracious addition to my household.
[> [> [> Hmmm... Masquerade is a puppy -- Masq, 16:41:26 07/11/02 Thu
Wait until you start calling her "Masq" for short...
And then have to yell at her for chewing on the furniture...
Of course, if you're yelling, you'll have to call her by her full name, in which case it won't seem to odd.
[> [> [> [> Actually,the Masq part sounds normal...... -- AurraSing, 18:19:54 07/11/02 Thu
But when I yell "Masquerade!" it sounds like I'm planning on some sort of party and wondering where the guests have buggered off to!
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- matching mole, 15:17:37 07/11/02 Thu
No profound reason. Matching Mole (with capital letters) was the name of an obscure art rock band circa 1972. Musically not a particular favourite of mine although the lead track from their first album, 'O Caroline' is a great sad love song of the painfully sincere variety. However I've always loved the name (and the two identical Wind-in- the-Willows-esque moles on the LP cover) and the story of the name (which involves translating the name of another band into French and then phonetically translating back into English).
Also it seemed unlikely that anyone else would choose it as a posting name.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Arethusa, 15:19:54 07/11/02 Thu
I was reading some Greek myths and liked the name on sight. Arethusa was a beautiful water nymph (naiad) who was pursued by an "amorous" god. She fled far and fast, but just as she was about to be caught a merciful god changed her into a river. The name is also given to ships (naturally), a butterfly, a famous coin, and an orchid. I identify with Arethusa, and it's nice to be in such beautiful company.
[> [> Rivers and "amorous" gods -- Rahael, 15:27:23 07/11/02 Thu
How funny!
My real name literally the same story, just a different culture.
Shiva was meditating in a garden. The combined beauty of Shiva, the garden and the meditation became a young woman, who like Dawn, was newly born.
The gods spotted her, and started following her. Being so new to the world, she became alarmed and started running. In her fright, when she came to a cliff edge, she jumped. The gods were so remorseful at what they had done, that they changed her into a river before she could hit the ground. And, that's the origin of a river in India, which is also my real name.
I had heard of the Daphne/Apollo story, but not of such a similar one as yours!
[> [> [> Re: Rivers and "amorous" gods -- Arethusa, 16:19:01 07/11/02 Thu
Good heavens. Arethusa's story tells the origins of a river on the island Ortygia.
My real name is more prosaic-the French version of the Hebrew name for "lily." My mother chose it partially because of her Welsh grandmother-who was named Ann.
[> It all goes back to "The Gift" . . . -- d'Herblay, 15:36:12 07/11/02 Thu
Sometime in May of last year, there was a little-seen episode of dramatic television called "The Gift." Now, I had been a fan of the series since I first saw "Nightmares" back in 1997, and I typically watched and rewatched episodes over and over again, but "The Gift" drove me into a fury of rewatching. After the end of "There's No Place Like Plttz Grlb," I rewound the tape and watched "The Gift" again. Then I popped in "Blood Ties" and watched the entire second half of Season Five in succession. Then I started again with "Buffy vs. Dracula," and made my way back to "Checkpoint." Then I endeavored to watch ever episode of Buffy I had on tape, in chronological order.
I made it up to "Superstar," when a previously scheduled trip to France interrupted my viewing. But, I turned on the TV in Bordeaux, and lo! There was Buffy contre les vampires! And, serendipitously, the episode was "La Maison Hauntee," which was not "Fear, Itself" as one might suspect but instead "Where the Wild Things Are." I took this as a sign. I began to have Buffy dreams, in which I was Spike. I dreamt I was in the musical episode, for example -- I didn't know the words and Dawn didn't know the dance steps, but we did our best to follow Buffy. (Another of my dreams may have anticipated the events of "Smashed.") And, again serendipitously, my hotel room in Blois was number 314.
But you can't go to France and come back with just memories of television. My peregrinations in the Loire valley reawakened for me my interest in the works of Alexandre Dumas. Seeing the bedroom floor on which Henri III had the Duc de Guise murdered made me want to read Chicot the Jester and The Forty-Five. But the book I had brought with me was The Count of Monte Cristo. I began to imagine a story in which Spike taught Dawn how to avenge herself. (It might have been better than "As You Were.") (In a digression, another book I took with me to France was Black Alice, by Thomas M. Disch and the incomparable John Sladek, in which the villain often quotes his favorite poem: "Invictus," by William Ernest Henley. While I was in France reading this book the cable news was filled with news on the execution of Timothy McVeigh, who went to his death quoting his favorite poem: "Invictus." This synchronicity may have something to do with my theory that Spike is, himself, Henley.)
When I returned to the States, I just had to share my Buffy obsession with others. I had been a participant at The Watcher's Diary for a time in Season 4 (as "charred"), but it was in the midst of an implosion. So I went looking for someplace else to hang my hat, someplace with a coterie of posters who were refined, who indulged in deep, philosophical juicyness. And I found such a place -- Abov e The Law. Casting about a name that spoke to my sense of moral ambiguity, and looking over the books that formed the bulk of my reading in those post-France days, I came across the later alias of Aramis. There's a section of the Le Vicomte cycle where he just scares me. I loved it. So I posted as "L'abbe d'Herblay," though because ezboard won't let you use apostrophes in names, it came out as "Labbe dHerblay," which is just gobbledygook.
Above The Law is excruciatingly slow, and I became dissatisfied with the waitresponses. I had been a devoted follower of Masq's analyses for quite a while, and I finally checked out her link to this board. I liked what I saw, and, perhaps realizing that I better fit Le chevalier d'Herblay of Twenty Years After than the monk of the later books, I dropped the "L'abbe." And here I've been ever since.
[> [> What a great story! -- Dedalus, 19:16:53 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> And I forgot about the part where I was walking down Rue Dante . . . -- d'Herblay, 20:38:09 07/11/02 Thu
. . . on my last day in Paris, and I passed a comic book store with a big poster of James Marsters on the door, announcing that he would be there for a signing the next week.
Synchronicity just means that a lot of things happen at the same time, right?
[> [> [> [> How could you forget that! -- Dedalus, 21:41:45 07/11/02 Thu
[> [> [> [> Re: And perhaps a bit of serendipity . . . -- aliera, 05:11:59 07/12/02 Fri
[> [> [> [> I love that street... there's a starplayer where I always buy y rpgs :) -- Ete, 06:39:20 07/12/02 Fri
[> MyPoints.com, sorta -- GreatRewards, 15:38:09 07/11/02 Thu
A while back, I discovered a (then) new service called MyPoints.com. The premise: Read advertisers' emails, earn points, redeem points for valuable stuff!
Since I didn't want to clutter my "real" email address with a bunch of junk mail, I decided that I needed a new email address "just for MyPoints". But what to call it? Well, it just so happened that on the Home page of MyPoints.com, they had a huge bullet saying something about "Great Rewards!!!"
so.... there you go. I created GreatRewards@hotmail.com. Since then, I've redeemed my points for $150 in Home Depot gift cards (because I shop there a lot) and I am still going strong! Free money! You can't beat that! They truly ARE Great Rewards.
At the risk of sounding like a commercial, check out MyPoints.com if you haven't already. Sign up (it's free) and tell 'em GreatRewards sent you (I get points for referrals, :-P ).
And now, back to your regularly scheduled messageboard...
[> [> Or tell 'em I sent you. ;) -- LadyStarlight, 16:14:12 07/11/02 Thu
except I forget how that works exactly....
[> [> [> I'm saving my points to get the DVDs, if that's going to inspire anyone? -- LadyStarlight, 11:22:45 07/12/02 Fri
[> [> but get there through the ecology fund! -- anom, 16:40:14 07/12/02 Fri
"At the risk of sounding like a commercial, check out MyPoints.com if you haven't already. Sign up (it's free) and tell 'em GreatRewards sent you (I get points for referrals, :-P )."
http://www.ecologyfund.com/registry/ecology/donate_plant_tre e.html
It's a service that lets you donate other people's money (big businesses or organizations, when you click on their buttons); one of the businesses is MyPoints. (You have to scroll about halfway down to find it.)
This public service announcement was brought to you by anom.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- fresne, 15:44:44 07/11/02 Thu
I 'm inclined to think that it is a moral (not an amoral or immoral) imperative that I post to this thread.
My posting name is from one of the Lais of Marie de France. Fresne, which means ash tree in French, was so named because she was found in an ash tree. It's a wonderfully subtle little story and to my mind is an interesting take on the whole Griselda story.
At a certain point in the story, Fresne's lover is going to set her aside to marry another woman because his feudal dependants have put pressure on him to honor his obligations /marry a woman who can have kids (Fresne appears to be infertile, like an Ash tree) and has a dowry/family/place in the world.
The night before the wedding, Fresne goes to inspect the wedding bed (she acts as her lover's chatelaine) to make sure that everything is good enough. However, she decides that the coverlet just won't do and has a piece of beautiful piece silk (she owns two things in the world, the silk and a gold ring) placed on the bed.
It's a simultaneously catty and generous thing to do. I therefore like it very much. And as a result of this generous/catty leap of faith, everything falls into place for her. In contrast, to a purely mean/jealous statement made by Fresne's mother at the beginning of the story (all twins are the result of infidelity, which everyone knows isn't true, but now all women must suffer for), which got Fresne abandoned in an Ash tree in the first place.
Since, as it turns out that the other woman, Cordre/Hazel tree, is Fresne's twin sister (gotta love the classics). And after identities get straightened out, Fresne's lover (I don't recall if he has a name) is easily able to trade the fruitful twin that he doesn't want, Cordre, who by the way never speaks, for the one he does, Fresne.
I read the story in college and have been using it for email/posting ever since. I don't tend to capitalize because I got into the habit when I couldn't capitalize it on-line in college.
And in aside, all three of my given names (first, middle, last) can be first names. Thus, while I've never had a nickname, I'm often referred to by any of my three names, which rather makes me feel like a trinity.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- MaeveRigan, 15:55:46 07/11/02 Thu
Delusions of grandeur?
Online is the only place I can indulge them. My posting name means Queen Maeve--the one who made Cú Chullain's life hell by starting the somewhat apocalyptic Cattle Raid of Cooley and (according to one myths) sanctified the reign of every new Irish king by spending a night with him. Or maybe that was her divine namesake!
Completely unrelated to Buffy, but it's fun. And maybe explains why I sometimes identify with Evil!Willow.
[> Irony. Doubly so, in fact. -- Sophist, 16:17:08 07/11/02 Thu
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- shadowkat, 17:53:21 07/11/02 Thu
When I first went online I discovered a horrible thing, everyone had the names I wanted. I tried versions of my own name, which unfortunately is incredibly popular - there
are over a million people with it in the US alone. Then I tried the name Phoenix - taken. So...I thought and thought
and realized that one of my favorite comic book code names had been shadowkat. I loved the metaphor and I happen to love and understand cats. They make sense to me, moody, reserved, do what they wish, follow no one's rules, make up their own minds...And the character the name was based on, had the ability to hack into computers, phase into electrical systems and disrupt them, and was very bright.
She floated on air. Wore a cool custom that consisted of a leather jacket and jeans. So I went with it.
[> [> You never told me you coveted the name Rufus....;) -- Rufus, 03:55:25 07/12/02 Fri
My name is from a cat, all my names are from cats I've had....it's all about cats....when it isn't about cats it's about Buffy...well and chocolate(everyonce in awhile I eat something green that isn't a gummi bear).
[> [> [> Re: You never told me you coveted the name Rufus....;) -- shadowkat, 06:05:41 07/12/02 Fri
Yes...I'm a cat girl...or cat woman. ;-)
I wanted to use the name of my favorite cat...one who died when I was a child, but people seem to already have it:
Simon. (not here but elsewhere).
yes...have the same addictions: cats, Buffy, chocolat...and oh there are those pesky books (any books, comic books,
really love fantasy/sci-fi = been collecting the good ones when I can find them.)
[> 'Tis mine own -- julia, 18:16:30 07/11/02 Thu
When I first started coming to ATP, I thought about creating a new posting name. I'd been Bellegant in a former incarnation with another fandom, which shall remain nameless here, and, although I had some attachment to that name, it didn't seem right to cross-name myself. But, after lurking a bit, I realized that I didn't want to use a false name at all. In fact, I began by using both my first and middle names which I soon shortened to just my first name. I have a great fondness for my own name and no sense of wanting to dissemble or create a false identity. So with me, what you read is what you get.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Caesar Augustus, 19:37:09 07/11/02 Thu
Augustus ruled pretty much the whole Western World, like I will one day.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Darby, 19:51:08 07/11/02 Thu
I've had a friend for almost 40 years (yikes!) whose name is the same as mine, save for the last 2 syllables. In high school, I became "Darby," those last two syllables. My eventually-to-be wife, who I met through my friend, didn't know that Darby wasn't my first name until we'd been going out a couple of months (college - you know, stuff doesn't come up...) - she at first suspected an elaborate ruse.
But that wasn't as bad as her mother's suspicion, that I'd carry her off and make a Lutheran out of her (and I'm not Lutheran!).
Now mostly it's used by old friends from home and college and new friends here.
My wife has pretty much settled on "Darbs."
Could be worse. Mt brother-in-law picked up "Gorf" in college. His buddies thought he looked like a frog and wouldn't catch on that "Gorf" is "frog" backward. Hey, it was college and they were addled by beer.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- tim, 20:08:41 07/11/02 Thu
Those of us using our real names don't get much story. It's interesting, though (to me, anyway) that redcat and I use the lowercase for the same reason. However, there's always a part of me that thinks this might just be false modesty on my part--hopefully, the message actually gets through to myself.
Incidentally, I've thought lately about taking up a board name, probably something with McLeod in it, since it was my Grama's (and no, that's not a typo) maiden name and also is the noblest part of my heritage. (My dad's family came to the States when Ireland ran out of potatoes.) Always dug the whole Scottish castle, descended-from-kings thing. Not that this is terribly unique in Western civilization, but I have to find my excitement somewhere.
Now that I think about it, that would seem to counteract the whole point of the lowercase-ness. Ah, well. "People aren't consistent. Hitler was a vegetarian." (Gregory Benford, Artifact)
--th
[> [> Hmm, I have a McLeod dirk in my collection. A very humble dirk, to be sure, but still a McLeod's... -- redcat, 21:01:59 07/11/02 Thu
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Finn Mac Cool, 20:26:50 07/11/02 Thu
My name comes from a mythical Irish knight, Finn Mac Cool, who ruled Ireland's version of the Round Table, called the Fianna. I just always thought he was a cool character (it's even in his name for gods' sakes!)
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- JBone, 20:35:05 07/11/02 Thu
from my Meet the Posters
JBone is the latest of many nicknames in my life. Other nicknames include JP, Jay Pat, Dr. Jay, Jay Bird, JD, Dilly, Dilly-Bar, Polack, Polski, Smiley, Baby Face, Guru Dude, Smart Ass, Farm Boy, Slick, Chief, Lucky, Shadow, Dimples, Gimpy, Hop-A-Long, and of course JBone.
And I've been reminded that my Mother did call me Twinkle Toes when I was little; something about me not coming off the dance floor at family weddings. I don't think I'll switch.
[> [> Re: Question for JBone -- Purple Tulip, 06:28:14 07/12/02 Fri
I was just wondering where you're from because you sound and awful lot like someone I know.
[> [> [> It's unlikely, but... -- JBone, 11:15:42 07/12/02 Fri
my mom does seem to know everyone. I was raised in the flat farm lands of South Dakota before I moved to the big city to make it big.
[> [> [> [> Re: It's unlikely, but... -- Purple Tulip, 13:24:46 07/13/02 Sat
Ok- I wasn't sure---I'm from the small farm lands of upstate ny, so we kinda have something in common. I have a friend who has nickname similar to the one you listed, and I thought that it would be incredibly weird if you were that person. Anyway, sorry to bother you with that!
[> [> [> [> [> zallright, I'm a nickname magnet -- JBone, 09:05:22 07/14/02 Sun
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Drizzt, 21:06:26 07/11/02 Thu
1. FanMan
My original name on the internet was FanMan.
Reasons; I am an obsessed fan of the Buffy show, I am male& over 18. BTW, I checked with a search engine; there are more than 100 other fanmans, however all of them that I saw were fans of various sports. I am not a sports person.
2. SexVixen
Reasons; I had started to think that my original name was corny. I wanted to get the attention of someone who was not replying to me; a guy(he has never posted here to my knowladge). Only posted about five times with that name untill I chose my next name...it was an interum name untill I decided what would be a cool new nickname.
3. Drizzt
Reasons; Drizzt is my favorite character in the Forgotten Realms. I acted trollish when I was FanMan; people here reacted in a civilized manner by ignoring me. Then I had the gall to start posting here with Drizzt as my new name without mentioning that I was FanMan...
4. "***********"
Reasons; I chose to become a registered user at another discussion board. I really wanted Drizzt as my nickname, however that name was allready taken. You get over 30 thousand hits in a websearch for "Drizzt"...Drizzt is very popular. So, I made up a name that had it's own meaning for me. My fourth name means...a cyborg with a wide variety of paranormal interests.
[> Well, I wanted... -- DickBD, 21:25:25 07/11/02 Thu
.."Matching Mole" or "Cactus Watcher" or some of the other cool names, but they were taken. Lacking imagination, I simply used my own first name. The "BD" part is a bit of a mystery. I have had quite a bit of success with some expository books that were published a number of years ago, a niche thing. You've probably never heard of them, but they have been more lucrative for me than teaching was! The "BD" refers to the subject of the most popular books.
While I am at it, I would like to mention that I mainly lurk. I am much older than nearly all of you, but I must say that I dearly love this board. And I have become attached to all of you--even just as nicknames with provacative and insightful opinions!
[> [> My name... -- Wizardman, 21:46:38 07/11/02 Thu
Well, it is my posting name at the Bronze. I realize that having the same name for two different places may seem a little unoriginal/boring, but I like the continuity. As to why I chose Wizardman... well, my first post was going to about Willow and her magic, and I am male, so I chose Wizardman. I know- it's boring compared to some of the other names and their origins, but I am a boring person in RL (and here as well, I'm sure =) ).
[> [> Have you checked the frequent poster profiles? -- Wisewoman, 21:48:05 07/13/02 Sat
To be "much older" than some of the rest of us, you'd have to be in your 70s, in which case, great!!
;o)
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Buffyboy, 23:34:13 07/11/02 Thu
Last November when I began to obsessively watch FX every night in order to catch up on the first five seasons of BtVS, my wife derisively refereed to me as “Buffyboy.” Thus, of course, in all matters Buffy, “Buffyboy” is now my chosen name.
P.S. Have you notice how many people, on this board and elsewhere, like me, first saw BtVS on that fateful night of Nov. 6, 2001? In my case it was the very positive review of OMWF by Tim Goodman in the San Francisco Chronicle that did the trick. Let me publicly thank Mr. Goodman. I will forever be in his debt; well, at least until he asks for some payback.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Farstrider, 00:23:52 07/12/02 Fri
As I am sure many of you already know, "Jain Farstrider" is a character in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. It's actually a character spoken of but that we have never met (maybe) - many people in the Wheel of Time universe regard him as fictional or at least exaggerated, kind of like Davey Crockett to a frontiersman. I also like Farstrider because it is also accurate - as a rather tall person, I take big steps.
Also, it was one of the few names I could think of that not too many people have taken. I even have it on hotmail - J_Farstrider@hotmail.com
Far
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Tillow, 06:06:53 07/12/02 Fri
My real name is too common and I wanted to post something quick. The day I posted my first post I was talking to a friend and I was listing character names and they all came out messed up. I said, Tillow and Wara and Bike and Spuffy.
This was a pretty long time ago. I didn't know the word Tillow had anything to do with the ship. Ah well...
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Purple Tulip, 06:21:55 07/12/02 Fri
I've had different names on different boards---but this is the only Buffy board I frequent. I thought about what I wanted my name on here to be and I wanted it to be something original and something that made sense to me to pick. So I came up with Purple Tulip because purple is my favorite color and tulip is my favorite flower. So, nothing deep, no hidden meanings, just me.
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Cactus Watcher, 06:38:42 07/12/02 Fri
I wanted something that had to do with Buffy. Being male and middle-aged 'watcher' sounded reasonable. I figured the must be another 'plain' watcher out there, so I chose to modify it. My original idea was Desert Watcher from the desert scenes in Restless. But, thinking about it, it sounded too pretentious. So, since I've got a backyard cactus garden...
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Lilac, 07:49:32 07/12/02 Fri
I am always very impressed by people who can select significant alternate names for themselves -- something that is daunting to me. When I first decided to post, I was at a loss so decided to take a lead from Cactus Watcher and look out the window. I could have gone with dandelion, lambs quarter, or creeping charlie (OK, that one would probably have marked me as a troll), but decided to take the high road with Lilac. While I don't feel like a particularly lilacky person, my town is the Lilac Village, and is loaded with the things. The entire town smells wonderful in May. We have an entire park devoted to the hundreds of varieties the things. Lilacia Park was donated to the village by Colonel and Mrs. Plum -- how cute is that?
[> [> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- yabyumpan, 08:42:08 07/12/02 Fri
Like many others here, after my cats: yabyum & pan (interesting, or maybe not, that no one seems to have chosen their dog's or goldfish's name. Nice to be among othet cat people)
yabyum is from Tantric Bhuddism,it's the sexual position most likely to allow the arising of the Kundalini.
pan, in honour of the great Pagan god of nature and fertility and the image used by christianity to represent the devil
[> [> [> You can't go away without defining the terms! -- Darby, 10:10:32 07/12/02 Fri
I'm not asking for diagrams on the overhead projector, but can we know, even ballpark, what position this is without invoking the wrath of the cyberspace police?
Kundalini? Isn't that a type of pasta?
[> [> [> [> Re: You can't go away without defining the terms! - - yabyumpan, 11:38:36 07/12/02 Fri
I'm not very good at explaining stuff but this is this best site I could find that has a good image and explainations
http://www.newfrontier.com/nepal/glossary.htm
And yes, as a sexual postion it's wonderful; as a spiritual practice, which is what it essentially is, it puts you in touch with 'the Devine', the pure essence of life.
[> [> [> [> [> ooops! meant Divine -- yabyumpan, 11:43:08 07/12/02 Fri
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- Majin Gojira, 08:12:48 07/12/02 Fri
My posting name is Japanese
Majin = Demon
Gojira = Godzilla
In the vain of a film I am Dieing to see (Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monster All Out Attack), I am Demon Godzilla :D
Straight Forward, to the point - and it explains about half my posts here!!!
Majin Gojira
------------
"Dude, It's dead! Quit Kicking that horse!"
"It ain't dead till I say it's dead!"
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- VampRiley, 08:29:50 07/12/02 Fri
When the board first went up at ivyweb.com, I was LiamK. It was just something I came up with, which wasn't my real name. I'd use another name maybe to ask a question or something, but I liked LiamK. But, then one day, on this board, there was a discussion on the type of vamp Riley would have made. I thought it was a cool name, saw no one was using it. So, I switched. Not much of a story here.
VR
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- LittleBit, 13:19:52 07/12/02 Fri
When I first decided to post on the Board, I was looking for a nickname that was from the series. I ran a number of possibilities through my head, sit-n-spin, rock-n-roll, Evil Undead, the Buffster, big poof, etc., but they all seemed derogatory (although Evil Undead has its appeal). And then there was a group of very similar nicknames all with an affectionate overtone: LittleBit, li'lBit, Bit, Nibblet. And there it is ... I picked the 'formal' version, and consider all the rest to be nicknames of my nickname. :)
LB
[> Re: Why did you choose your posting name ? -- SingedCat, 13:24:29 07/12/02 Fri
Easy. 1993, living in a studio in Atlanta, working at the immortal (in our hearts, anyway) Oxford Bookstore. New Year's, I took home a display copy of the Oxford Dictionary Word-A-Day Calendar.
singed cat (sinjd cat), n., a thing which is worth more than it at first appears.
I liked that. It also struck me as a good name for my music concern-- Singed Cat Music -- (and maybe a band someday-- all girl, of course. :D)
"singed" also comes right before "singer" in the dictionary, and I'm a singer. Professional now, but I have always sung-- since my brother first told me to shut up..;)It's part of my identity.
www.home.earthlink.net/~singedcat if you like to see. NB- it's pretty new- more later.
[> I feel left out... -- Rob, 13:43:25 07/12/02 Fri
...because I don't have an interesting story. Robert's my name. Dropped off the ert. And that's about it.
I know...Me, of all people, should have some deep explanation for my posting name, and be able to deconstruct why I used that as a nickname. Truthfully, there are very few nicknames for "Robert," and I am definitely not a "Bob." Haven't been "Robbie" since I was 9. So I'm "Rob" now.
So that's the story. Also thought it would be easiest for me just to use my real name, since I used to go on a bunch of different boards, years ago, and I would get confused about what name I used for each. And then people on both wouldn't realize which names were all me.
So I stuck with my real-life nickname.
Rob
[> [> Re: Real Name -- Brian, 14:25:50 07/12/02 Fri
Brian is my real first name. ( I didn't know any better), and this was the first and is only chat board I ever use. Namewise, the only quirk I can thing of is that in Celtic my name means to have a thundering voice, and I ended up in theatre and learned how to project my voice, so now people two blocks away tell me they can hear me coming.
[> [> [> That reminds me... -- Rob, 20:40:06 07/12/02 Fri
...although my real name has little meaning (except for the fact that my middle name, William, is after a cousin of my grandfather's who was the only member of that side of the family to survive the Holocaust), my Hebrew name is very cool.
It's Ari'yeh Zev. Ari'yeh is Hebrew for "Lion" and Zev is Hebrew for "Wolf." The name is supposed to be equivalent of strength and fortitude. Not sure how much it applies, but there it is...
Rob
[> [> Me too... -- Juliette, 11:13:20 07/13/02 Sat
I usually go as 'Juls' but for some reason I felt like using my full name for a change. 'Jewels' or my middle name, 'Grace' sometimes get used as well. Nothing fancy!
[> If you've talked to me or read my posts you'd know -- Off-kilter, late as usual, 01:22:34 07/13/02 Sat
Can't hide the fact that I'm not always on the same plane of reality with other folk, so why not highlight it? Must have missed some kind of training session growing up where they tell you how to pick up on social cues and stuff. Off- kilter seemed to fit.
BTW spousal-type laughed hysterically after reading my handle. I get no respect.
[> Not my fault... ;o) -- Wisewoman, 21:43:42 07/13/02 Sat
My SO dubbed me Wisewoman in recognition of my continuing, so far unsuccessful, quest for wisdom. Then these guys dubbed me dubdub, which I actually prefer!
;o)
[> [> Question for...one o' y'all... -- Darby, 07:39:45 07/14/02 Sun
Is there a pattern to when you're which?
Did that make any sense at all?
Um, do you apply the aliases to specific situations or use them randomly? There, that was better...
[> [> [> Re: Question for...one o' y'all... -- dubdub, 09:39:41 07/14/02 Sun
I find when I first post to a thread I use Wisewoman to, sort of, establish myself, and thereafter in the same thread I may use dubdub, particularly if there is a satirical or comical aspect to the post. An exception to this rule is if I'm responding to someone who knows me well (Rufus, d'Herblay, Sol, liq, Rahael, Dedalus, OnM, anom, etc, etc, etc) and I know they won't be confused by the dubdub.
If something is deadly serious (at least in my mind) I use Wisewoman throughout.
;o)
[> [> [> [> Re: Question for...one o' y'all... -- redcat, 10:54:24 07/14/02 Sun
Pretty much the same here, dubdub. I generally use "redcat" when I post or respond the first time, but sometimes shorten to "rc" if I'm sure it will be clear to folks who I am.
Occasionally I post as erythro-kitty, but only when I'm feeling catty...
[> [> [> Now, should you want a real story . . . -- d'Herblay, 11:09:40 07/14/02 Sun
. . . ask her about "Paracelsus"!
[> [> [> [> Re: Yikes!! -- dubdub, 11:42:18 07/14/02 Sun
Away with you, naughty man! Revealing my secret avenger pseudonym...you never know when we might need to press it back into service!!
;o)
[> It's my shape-shifting character in my son's RPG game scenario -- Liquidram, 03:58:34 07/14/02 Sun
and it sounded wicked cool.... or so I thought ...