January 2003 posts
Something Else Entirely: another take on the Buffy Metaphor -- manwitch, 19:20:31 01/25/03 Sat
The short version of this post is that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is about spiritual transformation.
The long version follows in three parts, and I hope is as interesting.
This part contains nothing that can be reasonably called a spoiler, but the two posts that follow both contain spoilers for Season's 1-6, namely how they end. The third and final post also ends with two general and uncorroborated suggestions about Season 7, but I think they're probably correct.
In the third post I quote, using extremely unprofessional citation style, from Joseph Campbell, not to push anyone's buttons or to claim he's the freakinest cool dude, but merely because he had published on the topic I was discussing, and his books were readily at hand, saving me a trip into New England's recent spell of ass-biting cold.
It should go without saying that I don't think this is the only way to see or talk about Buffy. Its just what I'm talking about now.
So here's something else entirely.
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Metaphor is, to my way of thinking, the revealing of an aspect of one thing through its identity with something else. When Buffy says of Dawn to Giles, "She's me," Buffy is using metaphor. When Faith says, "I'm Buffy," she is using metaphor. In both cases, they reveal a truth about themselves through positing an identity with something else, a truth based on what might be called the "subtle" identity rather than the "gross" or physical one. What you see is Dawn, but what it is is Buffy. What you see is Faith, but what she is is Buffy. Buffy herself actually gives a nice description of how metaphor works at the end of Choices, when she says to Willow, "Its weird. You look at something and you think you know exactly what you're seeing, and then you find out its something else entirely."
Such is the case, I will argue, with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In addition to what we look at and what we know we're seeing, BtVS is also something else entirely, a metaphor for our (the viewers') spiritual journey from a place of spiritual cluelessness to spiritual bliss. What we see is Buffy and her adventures, her friends, fights and foes. But what it is is ourselves on a journey of psychological transformation.
The metaphor starts with Buffy herself. As Faith realizes when she says to Riley, "I'm Buffy, I have to do this," being Buffy is not a physical or historical event applicable to one person only, but rather a psychological realization that anyone can achieve. It's not unlike Buddha consciousness. We are all Buffy, but haven't recognized it yet.
So what is this Buffy?
I believe it's a commonplace in screenwriting to make your leading character both unique enough to be interesting and yet universal enough to allow everyone to recognize themselves in the character. The beautiful thing about Buffy is that her very uniqueness-"the one girl in all the world"-is the exact same thing that makes her universal, namely her existential charge to be morally responsible for the fate of the entire world. Much has been made of the existential qualities of this show. Well the root of that existentialism is in this basic metaphor for you. Buffy is you. You are the Chosen One. Sartre argued that it was everyone's experience to be plopped down into a brutal and horrendous world and to be uniquely chosen to behave morally, to be chosen to save the world through our moral behavior. This is what he calls "anguish." We must perform every act as though we were legislating for the entire world through that act, bearing moral responsibility for the entire world in every action we take. We are alone in this endeavor, what Sartre calls "forlornness," even though we are all doing it, because it appears as though everyone else can take short cuts, trim a little here, take a little there, and because there is no guide telling us what to do. But even so, we are never absolved of this responsibility, never free to cut corners. And it doesn't matter whether or not we are ever acknowledged for the sacrifices we make, or the effort we give. Nor, according to Sartre, can we find solace in our nature. He calls this "despair." We were born neither hero, nor coward. We must choose.
That is the Buffy Metaphor, whose reference is to us. We all are chosen for this. We all do have a sacred calling and spiritual destiny. We all do bear the moral responsibility for the world on our shoulders. And I think I seriously believe this. We all have this charge. We all have it uniquely. And we must all choose for ourselves whether or not we will live up to it. Being born into this world, in whatever condition, is not sufficient without our choosing to live up to our responsibility and potential.
The Buffy series shows us how to make that choice. It shows us, through Buffy and her adventures, what will happen to us when we do make it, what obstacles we will face on the journey that follows, and how we can overcome those obstacles by transforming ourselves. For all its adventure and violence, BtVS is at its core a story of inward transformation.
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Something Else Entirely, Part 2 -- manwitch, 19:24:00 01/25/03 Sat
The Big Bads that Buffy faces each Season can also be interpreted in terms of this other inward story. They become, in this sense, not simply villains that Buffy must vanquish, but metaphors for Buffy's fears, for her subconscious drives, desires, and obstacles along her spiritual journey. The Master is the personification of Buffy's fear of her spiritual destiny, representing her anguish, forlornness and despair, if you will, over this unique spiritual calling that we all share. So in a sense he's not really a vampire, not even evil, but part of Buffy. He is characterized as evil only to the degree that Buffy resists her charge. Angel in Season Two is a metaphor for Buffy's desire, particularly sexual desire, the indulgence of which is, in terms of her spiritual growth, pathological. He is characterized as evil to the degree that Buffy's selfish obsession with "having" him removes her from her spiritual path. The Mayor in Season Three is a metaphor for Buffy's life force turned in service to herself. The Mayor, looming as the ultimate symbol of the individual devouring life for selfish purposes, is characterized as evil to the degree that Buffy toys with the idea of having her own life, apart from Sunnydale and her Slayer responsibilities. Adam in Season Four is a metaphor for Buffy's internalized blockage to her awakening spiritual life. He is evil to the degree that Buffy allows her own spiritual impulses to come from external programming rather than from her own spontaneous heart. Glory in Season Five is a metaphor for Buffy's illusions about her own identity, about the relationship between the corporeal and the non-corporeal world. Glory is characterized as evil to the degree that Buffy fails to recognize who and what she (Buffy) is, namely the mystical convergence of the mortal and the divine. Willow in Season Six is a metaphor for Buffy's spiritual antipathy for the world/state in which she exists. Willow is characterized as evil to the degree that Buffy wishes the world were other than what it is, that she were somewhere else.
In this psychological context, as well as its plot, each season of BtVS begins by outlining a conflict which defines these metaphorical Big Bads as precisely the psychological obstacle to be overcome, and Buffy psychologically overcomes precisely that obstacle in the Season Finale, immediately prior to dispatching the year's Big Bad.
In Season One's Welcome to the Helmouth, Buffy hopes to start a new, normal life, and explicitly resists her Slayer calling. So yes, according to the script she is already the Slayer, but its clear that she has not yet chosen to embrace that role. The obstacle she faces inwardly is her fear and resistance to committing fully to her spiritual destiny. She overcomes this obstacle not by dusting The Master, but by accepting her calling, by allowing the Anointed One, the child who leads us all inexorably towards adulthood, to lead her willingly onto the next stage of her life, where by facing her fear and surrendering herself to her destiny, she is reanimated as a fully spiritual incarnation. When that happens, The Master is already as good as dust, because he's no longer facing a child in denial.
In the start of Season Two, Buffy's sexual desire is visibly coursing through her, but not always making her a better person. So Season Two asks, will desire further our lower selves or our higher ones? Buffy must take the desire she feels, that when indulged is not having spiritually elevating consequences, and find a way to use it for something better. Angel, personifying Kantian ethics, is the perfect metaphor for this struggle. Kant felt that Happiness was unattainable in the world, in part because Happiness itself could lead to pride, selfishness, and evil intent. So what was required for moral conduct was not the pursuit of Happiness, but the pursuit of virtue, of the worthiness to be happy. According to Kant, this pursuit outlasted a simple lifetime, so it presupposed the existence of an immortal soul, capable of continuing the quest forever. And since this pursuit was meaningless if happiness were not to be at some point apportioned to the virtuous, it also presupposed what Kant called "a cause equal to this effect," namely God, or The Powers That Be, capable of recognizing virtue and reallocating happiness in accordance with it when the time was right. (This is why Angel is always accompanied by two things to which other characters on the show frequently seem oblivious, namely a soul and The Powers That Be). Kant felt every act implied an actor, and it was the intent of that actor, more than the act itself, that determined the morality of the act. It was important to intend the good. So we have Angel, imbued with an immortal soul that intends good, pursuing not happiness, which he can never have in this world, but the worthiness to be happy, hoping for the day when the Powers That Be will reallocate happiness in accordance to his worthiness. But this quest is a metaphor for Buffy's spiritual condition. When Buffy indulges her own desire, pursuing her own fulfillment (happiness) at the expense of her spiritual duties (virtue), then of course Angel, Buffy's desire, turns evil. What the symbol of Angel is saying is that the fulfillment of one's desire is an animal trait, not a spiritual one, and to allow passions to rule our intent is to throw all virtue aside and be like an animal. The inward obstacle to be overcome is the selfish fulfillment of desire in pursuit of our own happiness. Buffy overcomes this obstacle not through duty, but through self-sacrifice. When she is willing to tenderly surrender what she desires most, and any personal happiness that might come with it, in favor of doing what she knows must be done, Angelus is defeated and the world saved.
Season Three opens with Buffy attempting to leave Sunnydale and live her own life, something she will repeatedly consider throughout the season. As she considers being a part-time slayer, her will to life comes in conflict with her spiritual role. The obstacle Buffy faces in Season Three is not simply the evil Mayor, but the inward belief that her life is hers to live as she pleases. It is Buffy's tempatation to turn life to her own service that is symbolized in the Mayor, who rather than fulfill his public service seeks only self-aggrandizement. Buffy overcomes this obstacle not simply by blowing up The Mayor, but by recognizing that her life's purpose is something more than herself. When Buffy makes the commitment to stay in Sunnydale, to give her life force, even her very blood, to the service of others, The Mayor is already toast.
Season Four's The Freshman opens with a shot of the Winged Statue in the cemetery, which Buffy then stands before, appearing to have angel wings. As Buffy paces back and forth talking to Willow, the image is subtly repeated several times, suggesting that Buffy either has become or is about to become a heavenly or spiritual creature. The episode is ostensibly about self-reliance, self-confidence and independence, but the flurry of art references--Of Human Bondage, the Vienna Secession, Impressionism, Dadaism, and the Renaissance-all suggest that the real message is that art, in this case Buffy's spiritual art, will only flower in independence from tradition. Add to that her opponent is named Sunday, the day of the Lord in the Christian tradition, and I think its clear that it is not simply independence from Giles or Joyce that Buffy must find in Season Four. The inward obstacle for Buffy to overcome is an internalized, and therefore inauthentic, tradition of spirituality that is blocking her from her true spiritual source. The Big Bad takes shape as the Initiative and Adam, references to Genesis and the First Patriarch of tradition respectively, both of which are run by programming, by chips in the heart, driven by a man-made artificial source of power. Buffy defeats this inward obstacle not simply by calling on the First Slayer, but by finding her true spiritual source, by tapping directly the source of spiritual power that informs both the First Slayer and Buffy. Once she does this, Adam's power is already destroyed, and he loses in one of the most lopsided fights Buffy has ever had.
In Season Five's Buffy vs. Dracula, we find Buffy energized with a new zeal, and with the desire to know more about who and what she really is. Dracula, the master of tricks and illusions, puts the question to her: "Do you know what you are?" The season unfolds as the pursuit of the answer to that question, exploring what reality is and the relationship between the body and the mysterious force that animates it. There are several metaphors for this throughout the season: Joyce, who leaves while her body remains; Buffybot, who has Buffy's body but not her spirit; Dawn, who is living energy molded into a human form, but doesn't know what it means to be real; Glory, the divine presence locked in the body of a man, trying to separate itself from him and return to its proper realm. The inward obstacle to be overcome is the belief in illusion, the reliance on what we see for what we think we know. This inward obstacle is overcome when Buffy sees with her heart rather than her eyes, when she recognizes what she is. And the answer, what she is, is Dawn. By the climactic conclusion of The Gift, we have a sort of been lulled into thinking the question being answered is "what is Dawn?" But its only through that answer that we come to answer the real question of the season, which has always been "what is Buffy?" And the answer is that Buffy is herself the link, the living energy beyond forms, the intersection between the divine and the mortal. When Buffy recognizes this reality, two things happen. The image of God trapped in a man trying to escape back to its proper dimension is rendered powerless. And Buffy, having identified herself with the reality beyond the illusory forms of our senses, leaves behind the world of forms altogether.
(Allow me to digress here briefly and say that this is not mindless television. A very powerful religious message is being sent here. If Buffy is both divine and mortal, and if Buffy is a metaphor for all of us, than BtVS is telling us that we all are this link. The Knights of Byzantium are a reference to the Christian doctrine of the uniqueness of Christ. They come from Byzantium, the capitol of the Roman Empire that did not fall. Byzantium became Constantinople, named for the Roman Emperor who converted to Christianity and made it the religion of the Empire. The Knights of Byzantium wear crosses, they have priests whose "God" is more powerful than the "infidels." They are associated with the Crusades, the effort by European Christendom to bring Christianity back to the Holy Land. And these Knights of Byzantium say that "the link must be severed." The link is "too dangerous to be allowed to exist." They believe that the divine and mortal realms must be kept separate. God and man mixed only once. But we find that they are wrong. And the final images of Buffy in the shape of the cross as she descends, sacrificing herself, and in the shape of the crucifix, after her sacrifice has saved the world, suggest to us that Christ was not a one-time event. The message we are being given is that God and man coexist in all of us, and when we recognize that fact in the sacrifices we make for others, we save the world. That's a big message, the kind that the greatest works of art and literature have been at pains to deliver, and its rarely been done any more beautifully than in this television series.)
In Season Six's Bargaining, Willow states the issue to the remaining scoobs, "We don't know where Buffy really is." They have her body, but not her spirit. And when her spirit animates her body again, Buffy asks basically the same question, "Is this Hell?" She doesn't know where she really is. Having beheld the beatific image, she looks at the world now around her and sees a wasteland. Her spirit longs to be somewhere else, back in Heaven, and the daily obstacles she faces overwhelm her with their pettiness. This is not the life she wants, not the life that her spirit needs. Spiritually, she has condemned this world to Hell. The perfect metaphor for this is Willow, who has always been a metaphor for Buffy's spirit, and who now shapes the world to her liking, rather than accept it as it is, who seeks a magical existence beyond being simply Willow. As Buffy's spiritual crisis reaches its apex, Willow, seeks to put the world out of its misery, seeing in the world only a spiritless place of pain and suffering that should not be allowed to exist. The obstacle of Season Six is purely psychological. If you cannot see the world as a wonder, as Heaven itself, the fault is not the world's. So the inward obstacle to be overcome is the mistaken belief that this world is not heaven, that it should be other than what it is, that it is not the domain of the spirit. The obstacle is overcome when Buffy opens her heart, when she can forgive herself for the mess she's made, when she sees the world as a wonder that she can share with Dawn. When she does this her symbolic heart, Xander, opens with compassion to her spirit, Willow, helping her to recognize in the misery of humanity the all-encompassing love of the divine presence right here in the world. Buffy knows where she really is, and she has been in Heaven all along.
So each season establishes early on a psychological obstacle for Buffy that is perfectly represented by the season's Big Bad. And in each season, Buffy overcomes that Big Bad at pretty much the same moment she effects an inward transformation that overcomes the psychological obstacle that has been blocking her all year. In Season One, Buffy starts in a place of resistance and denial about her spiritual calling, but ends as a willing participant in it. Buffy begins Season Two immersed in the power of her own sexual desire, but ends with an awareness that her intentions must be higher than her desires. At the start of Season Three, Buffy wants life to serve her purposes, but ends with the realization that her purpose is to serve life. She starts Season Four unsure of her spiritual footing, but ends by tapping her spiritual source directly. Season Five begins with Buffy questioning who and what she is, and ends with Buffy recognizing herself as divine living energy. At the opening of Season Six, Buffy rejects the spiritual emptiness of the world, but by the end, she embraces its humanity. In each case she overcomes the Big Bad, but her most significant victory is within.
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Re: Something Else Entirely, Part 3 -- manwitch, 19:30:20 01/25/03 Sat
Now, I am calling these "spiritual transformations," rather than simply acknowledging them as themes that each season explores. I would offer three reasons why I do this. First, since I am arguing that Buffy, through her existential charge to bear the moral weight of the world on her shoulders, is a metaphor for the viewer, I am necessarily arguing that her adventures are also a metaphor for the viewer. So the point in such a context would not be that the viewer is supposed to go out and slay demons or depose the Mayor or jump off a tower. The point would be that we are supposed to achieve these transformations. Its application to us is necessarily psychological rather than literal.
The second reason is that I don't find these to be random themes. They are progressive. We must willingly commit to our spiritual life first (Season One). After we do that, we will need to find a way to let our newly stirring subconscious drives and urges pass through us without bringing down our intention (Season Two). If we are able to do so, we must decide what that intention is, what purpose our life will serve. And if we decide that purpose is to serve others (Season Three), we will move on to a true spiritual awakening as we find the source of our spiritual power in the opening of our heart (Season Four). Having tasted of that power, we will seek to know it better, to find it in ourselves forever (Season Five). And having found it there, we will have then to recognize that spiritual presence in all the forms around us, no matter how petty, painful, or mundane (Season Six). There is a deliberate growth process here, not simply the random exploration of interesting themes.
The third reason why I call these "spiritual" or "psychological transformations" requires a brief digression into an existing vocabulary of spiritual transformation that comes from yoga. We tend to think of yoga as an exercise program, but its purpose is primarily spiritual, to use certain meditations or exercises to awaken spiritual powers in the body. There are many different kinds of yoga, but the basic purpose is to reunite the consciousness of the yogi with his true self. Normally, our consciousness associates with our body, with our characteristics of enjoyment or involvement with our physical existence in the world. Yoga attempts, through differing kinds of mental discipline, to strip those characteristics away, until what is left, unattached to our particular physical incarnation, is the true self.
The yoga that I want to focus on is called Kundalini Yoga. Kundalini means "coiled-up" and refers to the latent female energy (Sakti) that exists in everyone. It is to be thought of as a coiled up serpent, dormant at the base of the spine of the "subtle" rather than "gross" body. The goal of this yoga is to awaken that serpent through meditation and raise it from the base of the spine to the top of the head. At the base of the spine is spiritual lethargy, at the top of the head, spiritual bliss. Along the way, the serpent will pass through spiritual centers known as chakras, that are located along the spine at different levels of the body, and as it passes through each chakra, that center will be awakened and its spiritual powers activated, resulting in a spiritual transformation.
The first chakra in kundalini yoga, called the "root support," is at the base of the spine, between the anus and the genitals. This is where the kundalini serpent is sleeping. To quote Joseph Campbell on this first chakra, "when the coiled serpent rests in the first lotus center, asleep, the personality of the individual is characterized by spiritual torpor. His world is the world of unexhilarated waking consiousness; yet he clings with avidity to this uninspired existence, unwilling to let go, just hanging on" (MTLB, 111). "The first task of the yogi, then, must be to break at this level the cold dragon grip of his own spiritual lethargy and release his own Sakti" (TMI, 341). This first chakra is associated with the element earth, for its properties of solidity and resistance.
Now I would suggest that this chakra very much addresses Buffy's condition in Season One. Her spiritual calling is lying dormant, as she clings to a wish for normal life. And her task in Season One is to shake off that lethargy and awaken her spirit. That this is what happens is suggested by the fact that throughout the season, most of the villains of each episode are not killed by Buffy in typical Slayer fashion. The Witch and Moloch destroy themselves, Angel kills Darla, the dummy kills the demon, the boy takes the mask off of the ugly man, the Hyenas kill hyena man, nobody gets Marcie or the Anointed One. From this perspective, she has not really functioned as the Slayer throughout the first season, except for the Harvest, when she was under duress. But in Prophecy Girl, when she goes willingly to her fate with the Master, she truly becomes the Slayer. The music cue as Buffy marches off to dispatch the Master is the only time in the series that the Buffy theme is used as scoring, as if to say the entire series up to this point has been teaser. Now the real show is about to start. Its also worth noting, I think, that there is an association with the element earth. Beyond the suggestion of life on the surface and life underneath, and the fact that the Master exists in a subterranean church, it is ultimately an earthquake, a relaxing of the earth's rigidity, that heralds the awakening of Buffy's spirit. When that spirit awakens, Buffy has made the exact transformation represented in chakra one.
The second chakra in kundalini is at the level of the genitals. At this level, according to Campbell, "the whole aim of life is sex." All thoughts and acts seem sexually motivated or are understood in sexual terms. "According to Tantric learning, even though the obsession of the life-energies functioning from this psychological center is sexual, sexuality is not the primal ground, end, or even sole motivation of life. Any fixation at this level is consequently pathological...The method of the Kundalini is rather to recognize affirmatively the force and importance of this center and let the energies pass on through it, to become naturally transformed to other aims at the higher centers" (TMI, 345). The element associated with chakra two is water, and its energy, like water, tends to flow downward.
Looking at Season Two of Buffy, the parallel is again visible. Buffy's sexuality is announced in the first episode of Season Two. It stays a major theme up until the point that Buffy actually has her first sexual experience with Angel. After that, Buffy tends to interpret everything that happens through the prism of that sexual experience. It is ultimately when she is able to let desire pass through her in favor of other aims that she overcomes Angelus. The season also seems to be associated with the element water. It includes the first time we have ever seen the docks, the first time we see rain, and the first time we see the beachfront. In most cases, the water is shown in episodes where the primary theme is the downward consequences of unbridled desire. When Buffy and Angel are at the dock, their conversation is about their desire for each other, their inability to part from each other. They both end up, oddly enough, not simply near the water at the dock, but in it. The water can be thought of as the energy of subconscious sexual drives, and Angel and Buffy are immersed in them. When Buffy and Angel actually have sex, it is pouring rain out. Again, they are immersed in water, and it is flowing downward. The consequences of their sex are not spiritually elevating to say the least. The result of Buffy's fixation is a pathological monster. And when Buffy confronts Angel for the first time after their sexual encounter, even though it is indoors in the mall, its still raining. The sprinklers come on, and Angelus and Buffy are once again immersed in the downward flow of this subconscious energy. Now, in the chakra iconography, the water element is symbolized by the moon, which suggests the cycle of the moon in relation to water both in terms of filling and emptying, and in terms of its force on the tides, metaphorically the waters of our subconscious. And we find in Season Two, our own lunar symbol, Oz, governed by the cycles of the moon. Oz's appeal is to Willow, metaphorically Buffy's spirit. And his appeal is quite specifically to her creative potential, as she too associates herself with the cycle of the moon, saying, "3 days out of the month, I'm not much fun to be around either." And since Willow is a metaphor for Buffy's spirit, the message is, I think, that these energies do not have to be negative, but can be put in service of the creative potential of the human spiritual life. Buffy ultimately figures this out, overcomes Angelus, and realizes exactly the transformation of chakra two.
In kundalini, if the yogi is able to allow the sexual energies of chakra two to pass through him, he then comes to chakra three, which is at the level of the navel, or the stomach, and its element is fire. Campbell says, "the governing interest of anyone whose unfolding serpent power has become established on this plane is in consuming, conquering, turning all into his own substance, or forcing all to conform to his way of thought. His psychology is ruled by an insatiable will to power" (MTLB, 111).
And this certainly is the Mayor of Season Three, whose "governing" interest is literally turning all into his own substance. The reference is to Buffy. Buffy's task in Season Three is to decide whether her life will be hers, whether the world will be turned into her substance, or whether she will serve the world. I think other characters also are representative of this Will to Life. Angel returns from hell, and like Buffy he wonders what to make of his life. Faith must decide also what purpose she will put her life towards, and she chooses poorly, choosing, like the Mayor, to use her power to claim life for her own rather than to serve. The Season is, I think one could argue, associated with the element fire. The episodes are riddled with fiery explosions, flashes of fiery electricity, and ritual flames. We witness Buffy's immolation in Angel's dream, and Angel's burning fever, which ultimately helps Buffy to make her choice. And the final images, when the mayor is defeated, are of firemen and fire trucks, putting out the fire. "Fire bad, tree pretty," Buffy says. Twice. When she decides to serve the world, rather than consume, she not only defeats the Mayor, she also accomplishes exactly the transformation of chakra three and "ascends" to chakra four.
Chakra four is special. It is at the level of the heart, and it is about the awakening of the true spiritual life. In the kundalini system, the lower chakras, as chakras one, two, and three are known, are essentially the energies that any worldy being would possess: the energy to build, to procreate, to conquer. These energies are not specific to the spiritual power of humanity. But it is at the level of the heart, the organ of compassion (which is the opening of the heart to another), that the true spiritual life begins. The fourth chakra is called "not hit," and this name refers to the sound that is not made by two things striking together. As Campbell says in speaking about chakra four, "every sound normally heard is of two things striking together: that of the voice, for example, being the sound of the breath striking our vocal cords. The only sound not so made is that of the creative energy of the universe, the hum, so to speak, of the void, which is antecedent to things and of which things are precipitations. This is heard from within oneself...It is the sound beyond silence, heard as OM." The sound OM is considered the seed sound of creation, as it encompasses all other sounds within it, but also the silence that words cannot touch that is "before, after, within, and surrounding the sounding syllable" (TMI, 356). It is here at chakra four that the yogi has his first momentary experience of his true self, stripped of its worldy characteristics.
As I have indicated before, Season Four opens with an image of Buffy in front of the winged statue, suggesting that she is or is about to become a spiritual creature. Her task is to find her true spiritual source for her true spiritual awakening. She does this, I would argue, through the opening of her heart. The opening of the heart to another is shown in many of the relationships of the season. Buffy certainly opens her heart to Riley, and in Primeval, Buffy opens her heart to her friends. But I think the most significant examples are Xander and Willow. Xander, a metaphor for Buffy's heart, remember, opens his heart to Anya. Anya, once a demon, is now on the path to the full experience of humanity. So one might interpret the symbol as Buffy's heart opening to the full experience of humanity, or compassion. Willow is a metaphor for Buffy's spirit, and her heart in Season Four opens to Tara. Willow/Tara is a lesbian relationship. Willow and Tara are also both witches, and in the days of old, being a witch meant being someone who did not require the mediation of a priest, always male, to open to the realm of the spirit. That's why there has always been an association between witches and lesbianism. Its because male mediation is not required for either. So, interpreted as a metaphor for Buffy's spirit, we are being told that Buffy is prepared to have direct, unmediated access to her spiritual ground. Also, Tara is the name of a Buddhist divinity that is the personification of a tear of divine compassion from one of the great Bodhisattvas. So Buffy's spirit is also opening its heart to compassion.
What's more exciting is that both Willow and Xander open their hearts to their respective symbols of compassion in the same episode, an episode in which the sound of two things striking together, such as the breath against the vocal chords, is taken away, leaving only the silence. These openings of the heart happen in silence, because words cannot reach this spiritual event, this momentary realization of our true selves. But these openings of the heart are themselves the hum of the void, the sound that is not made by two things striking together. Buffy also silently breaks past the Babelfest to finally open her heart to Riley in the same episode. I will point out also, that what is being harvested in this episode, is seven hearts. They are being harvested by a group of conservatively dressed demons known as the Gentlemen. I would interpret the symbol as saying that by following traditions of manners and customs, society's requirements rather than our own deepest spiritual impulses, we are confining the power of our hearts just as surely as if we placed our hearts in jars. But by opening our hearts spontaneously to compassion, as both Xander and Willow do in the episode, we tap the creative power of our spirit.
This is ultimately what Buffy will do to defeat Adam, and the suggestion for how it will be done will come, appropriately enough, from Xander, Buffy's heart. Buffy's heart, mind, and spirit come together to tap the true source of her spiritual power and overcome Adam, the symbol of inauthentic, uncompassionate spirituality. She accomplishes exactly the transformation of chakra four.
And so I will defer again to Campbell, as he describes the transition to chakra five. "There is a new zeal, a new frenzy, now stirring in the blood. Once the great mystery-sound has been heard, the whole desire of the heart will be to learn to know it more fully, to hear it, not through things and within during certain fortunate moments only, but immediately and forever. And the attainment of this end will be the project of the next chakra, the fifth, which is at the level of the larynx, and is called 'Purified.' When the kundalini reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and to hear only of God" (TMI, 363-368). Surely this is Buffy as we transition to Season Five. She feels the frenzy in her blood, and goes out for the hunt. She wonders where her power comes from and enlists Giles support in finding out what that power is and what it means to be the Slayer. And her point of focus in Season Five is, in fact, a God.
The aim of chakra five, whose element is space, or ether, is "to eliminate all interpositions of the world between oneself and the immediate hearing of OM, or, expressed in visual terms, between oneself and the vision of God. The ideals and disciples of this stage are those rather of the hermit's cell and monastery than of art and civilized life: not aesthetic, but ascetic" (MTLB, 115). And we find in Season Five, Buffy slays in a monastery for the first time, and she retreats like an ascetic into the desert to find spiritual guidance. We also have the first appearance ever of an enemy that appears from outer space, and we have the negative space of Dawn's art class and Joyce's life. And of course, just as Dawn came out of the ether, Buffy returns to it by season's end.
Now in the higher chakras (the chakras above the heart) the energies of the lower chakras are used to assist in the spiritual activation. So in chakra five, the energies of chakra three are put to use to assist in the attainment of the chakra's goal, namely the seeing of the beatific image. At chakra three, Buffy conquered the consuming power of the Mayor to recognize her purpose in service to life. And in Season Five, at the fifth chakra, the energies used at chakra three are to be turned in upon oneself. Buffy needs to conquer the consuming power of Glory not through outward directed force, but through inner recognition. This is called in kundalini, "the turning about of the Sakti." Buffy does so through her service to life, realized through the bright and blinding fire of her love, which brings her to her gift.
There is another exercise used by the yogi in the attainment of chakra five, "known as Illusory Body Yoga, the aim of which is to realize in experience-not simply to be told to believe-that all appearances are void. One is to regard the reflection of one's own body in a mirror and to consider how this image is produced by a combination of various factors, the mirror, the body, light, space, etc...One is then to consider how one's own self, as one knows it, is equally an appearance" (TMI, 378-379). Buffy surely does exactly this as she contemplates the body of her mother, and as she realizes that she and Dawn are the same. She recognizes her body as illusory, and her true self as a manifestation of the divine presence, and beholds the beatific image. Buffy accomplishes exactly the transformation of chakra five.
But a decision now confronts the yogi, for "one thus 'released while living' may voluntarily return to the state of mind of chakra four in the way of a Bodhisattva, touched by compassion for all suffering beings, who, renouncing for himself release from rebirth, returns to the world in the form of a teaching savior," or he may ascend further to the "rapture" of the higher chakras (TIROOS, 106). I have argued in the past that Buffy returned to the world in Season Six as a bodhisattva figure, but I no longer believe this. From a psychological point of view, she had never left the world, so her return to the world was, I believe, metaphorical of the limitations of the world of forms. Chakra 6, at the level of the forehead, is called "command," also known as "conditioned rapture," and is to be thought of as the experience of God in the form of God. Which does not necessarily mean in the form of an old irascible bearded white man, but rather in a form of any kind, even the forms of the world. But the significance is that the form of God, even as one beholds its rapture, maintains the separation from God. The chakra is at the level of the forehead because the mind is maintaining, and therefore limiting, the concept of God. At this chakra, the mind "wishes to be one with the all-pervading divine, but cannot do so. It is like the light of a lamp inside a glass case. One feels as if one could touch the light, but the glass intervenes and prevents it." (TMI, 380).
Buffy's malaise in Season Six is exactly this. She wishes to be one with the divine, but she cannot do so, and the fact that she cannot, throws her back onto the world of form and separation, which she perceives as hell. Her task is to overcome that perception, to find the rapture, even though it is "conditioned" by the forms of the world, to see in the world a place of divine wonder, in which she can participate with joy. And just as the energies of chakra three were "turned around" to assist in the activation of chakra five, so here are the energies of chakra two turned around to support the activation of chakra six. The sexual love of the second chakra is transformed in chakra six to the sublime love of God. And we unmistakably see the reenergizing of sexual love that we saw in Season Two, between Buffy and Angel, in Season Six, between Buffy and Spike. But in Season Six, Buffy is able to sublimate that love and walk into the light. When she realizes she wants to show Dawn the world, she is recognizing that God's presence is all around, in all the forms of the world, and at that moment the world is revealed as a wonder, and even the form of Spike is infused with the divine. Buffy accomplishes exactly the transformation of chakra six.
The psychological arc of each season matches with each corresponding chakra, from Buffy's awakening of her spiritual destiny (1), through her sexual energies (2), her Will to Power (3), her discovery of her true spiritual source (4), and her beholding of the divine (5), to her recognition of the conditioned rapture of the world itself (6). So, in short, the third and final reason why I refer to the arcs of each season as "spiritual transformations," is that it would appear that the entire series is structured around a metaphor of spiritual transformation, a very specific journey from lethargy towards bliss. And this journey of spiritual transformation takes place in the "subtle" body, rather than the "gross" or physical one. This suggests that everything we see is not necessarily the reality of the story. Even if Buffy were seated, cross-legged, on the floor of a tiny room, meditating, and, as I picture it, wearing very little, and all we were seeing were the reflections in her mind of her own inner powers and drives, we would be seeing the exact same story.
It's weird. You look at something and you think you know exactly what you're seeing, and then you find out it's something else entirely. Buffy has been practicing yoga.
And so, through Buffy, have we all.
In closing, I will add that there are two points of significance that follow from this regarding Season Seven. The first point is that, having tracked the arc of each season and found it to match with its respective chakra, we can surmise that by examining and understanding the next chakra, the seventh, we may gain some accurate insight into the psychological transformation that Buffy must make in Season Seven. I will say only that the seventh chakra is located at the top of the head, sometimes pictured as above the head, to indicate that it is not part of the body. The rapture of the seventh chakra is not conditioned by any form, not even that of the yogi. It represents the overcoming of the world of forms, and all its accompanying binary oppositions, in the complete extinguishing of the self into undifferentiated consciousness. The energies of chakra one, in which the yogi overcame his spiritless ego to begin the journey, are used to assist in the activation of chakra seven, but here the very ego to be overcome is the one activated at the first chakra, the ego that has successfully traversed all the chakras up to this point. This may provide a framework for interpreting Season Seven.
The second point of significance is that there are only seven chakras.
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What an amazingly brilliant post -- Sophist, 20:57:51 01/25/03 Sat
I'm still absorbing all of it, but I have one suggestion:
The Knights/Crusaders part may need some clarification. The Byzantines were actually victims of the Crusades (in particular, the Fourth Crusade). The Knights might well have been established by Crusaders in Constantinople after they sacked the city in 1204. This would associate them with the Roman church, not the Eastern.
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Issues with Crusades -- Fred the obvious pseudonym, 23:25:44 01/25/03 Sat
Quite correct, Sophist; but the First Crusade was in part justified by the call for help of Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus against the Muslims, who were pressing on Byzantium's eastern and southern frontiers.
He did not expect the West's answer to be in the form in which it appeared.
Byzantine officers helped to guide the First Crusade across Anatolia and a small Byzantine cavalry contingent accompanied the Crusader army (briefly.)
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A clear case of 'Be careful what you wish for' -- Sophist, 08:17:42 01/26/03 Sun
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Fascinating post...cutprint... -- shadowkat, 21:19:30 01/25/03 Sat
Just when i was beginning to feel disillusioned with Buffy, here comes an incredibly insightful and interesting take on the series. Have yet to read all of it in depth and digest. Hopefully when I do will be able to comment further.
Preserving this thread.
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Re: Fascinating post...cutprint... -- Rufus, 23:05:55 01/25/03 Sat
I was surprised to see people being so disillusioned with Buffy cause I'm more excited because Buffy's journey is spiritual where Angel's is more earth based. Consider this....everyone that has been exposed to Buffy has changed....Cordy, Angel, Spike, Willow, Xander......Dawn, Giles. If people focus on romantic ships they are missing the best part of both series and that is how people are transformed through their interactions with each other. The best part of last year was when Buffy asked Tara, begged Tara, not to forgive her for what she had done with and to Spike....it was Tara's forgiveness that made Buffy strong enough to break off with Spike in AYW...when she finally became strong enough to stand on her own. Both were transformed by this act....Buffy was returning to life, and so was Spike in that he sought his soul.
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I'm not a shipper...ugh! I'm a plotter. (warning mini rant) -- shadowkat, 09:53:21 01/26/03 Sun
Okay it may shock you - but I do agree with everything you said but am somewhat annoyed by this statement, not because it's not true about shippers but the implied assumption that it has anything to do with my disillusionment.
If people focus on romantic ships they are missing the best part of both series and that is how people are transformed through their interactions with each other.
I wasn't going to go into this again. But you keep assuming my criticism of production values and current disillusionment has to do with shipping or worries on Spike it doesn't. I really could care less about ships. If I did I would have stopped watching the show in Season 3 when they killed two of my favorite ones. Or season 4 for that matter. I'm a plotter. Yes - they turn me on, yes I love the character of Spike, but would it be enlightening to you if I said that I think Season 3 was the best Season in Btvs because it had a) the best production value, b) consistent writing c) strongest stand alone episodes, and d) best all around acting? Even the episodes that were weak in this season were polished. Season 4 Angel corresponds in quality to Season 3 Btvs. And Spike barely appeared in Season 3, nor was there any ship I was really attached to except for W/Xander and Joyce/Giles which they dumped.
SO, my disillusionment has nothing to do with romantic ships. Sigh. Season 3 was an amazing season as was season 5 and neither was in my humble opinion really romantic or had a ship in it that I cared much about.
If it was about ships - I wouldn't be as into Angel as I am right now - which has 0 ships I'm into, unless you count Wes/Lilah which isn't really one.
My problem with Btvs this season, if you've been following my posts, is in how choppy the writing and overall execution is. Angel the Series is far more polished. The writing on Btvs this season has been all over the place. I know where they are headed - it's what manwitch states above, I love the themes, I love the deep inner meanings, I love the risks and ambition of the writing, just like I did the previous years or I wouldn't bother watching it. What is frustrating me is how poorly they are executing it. I know what these writers are capable of, so expect more from them. But be honest - is Potential really anywhere near the execution in writing, editing, cinematography, visuals, and or set design and peripheral characterization that Long Day's Journey had? Or for that matter even Tabula Rasa?
The production standard seems off somehow. There are huge leaps in logic in the writing. PEripheral characters who come in and out without much explanation. You need a road map to keep track of all the misleads and red herrings.
Three episodes were incredibly cluttered with peripheral characters that you had to work to even remember the names of.
I'm not sure what's going on - but I've been noticing a slip in "production value" since roughly Season 6, one episode would seem polished the next not. AYW could have been a brillant episode - but it was so sloppy, the plot made 0 sense - half the audience was convinced the hero was the villain of the piece and so on. The only parts of AYW that I liked oddly enough was Buffy's breakup with Spike and the Xander/Anya conversation in the bathroom and in the car on the way to the airport. The rest of the episode just seemed completely off. It would have worked better - if we'd had more build-up. My dislike of AYW had 0 to do with shipping. That wasn't why I had problems with it.
I'm not bashing Buffy, I'm just explaining my frustration.
And wondering if maybe they will disappoint me in the end and maybe we are all reading too much into this...and maybe well it is just a tv show. So when a post like manwitch's comes along, which was decidely non-shippy and barely even mentioned my favorite character btw, I feel hope. I think okay maybe I should revisit this...maybe it's just a bit of a mid-season slump and the fact that the writers had to crank out the episodes really quickly at the same time they were trying to save Firefly and do Angel. Posts like manwitch's make me feel better about being obsessed with the show.
ugh...hoping that will finally answer that question.
SK (who is regretting writing disillusionment in her post and promises not to bring this up ever again. I hope.)
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Question on AYW -- Peggin, 10:21:12 01/26/03 Sun
AYW could have been a brillant episode - but it was so sloppy, the plot made 0 sense - half the audience was convinced the hero was the villain of the piece and so on.
I wasn't online last year when AYW aired, and the only review I've read of it was Loey's, which was mostly favorable. AYW wasn't my favorite episode by any stretch, but I didn't see any major plot holes in it. I know a lot of other people obviously did, because I've seen this kind of statement made in several different places, but I haven't seen anyone actually point out what those plot holes were.
The only thing I've been able to think of on my own that others might perceive as a plot hole is the question of how Spike could have been brokering demon eggs when Buffy had been in his crypt so many times all season. But I thought that question was answered when Spike said that he was holding the eggs for someone else. I guess it becomes a plot hole if you assume he was lying, but IMO the answer is right there in the text. Assuming it was the truth, it doesn't make Spike's actions any less evil, IMO. He still knew that those eggs were a bad thing. Even if he didn't know exactly how bad -- well, if someone was caught selling crack to fourth graders, I wouldn't suddenly get a warm fuzzy feeling for him if he confessed that he had believed it was pot.
As for the comment about people thinking the hero was the villain, can I ask you -- based on what (other than wishful thinking)? I mean, I am *not* a fan of Riley's, and I have spent more than my fair share of time posting on some of the more fanatical Spike lists, but I never saw anything that would indicate that Riley was going to be the bad guy of that piece.
So, I guess I'm just wondering what these huge plot holes were. I know they must be there, since so many people saw them, but I completely missed them.
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Re: Question on AYW -- shadowkat, 11:05:32 01/26/03 Sun
Uhm...check the archives, Darby does a marevolous post pointing it out.
The problems I had with the episode:
The characters of Riley and Sam have 0 personality and are as close as you can get to a Mary Sue character - ie the perfect character who has no flaws. Mary Sue characters act like ciphers at times - making the audience try to give them flaws. This was a horrible thing to do with Riley - since he had been a much better rounded character before.
The plot holes - it made 0 sense to 65% of the fans online that Spike was doing anything with demon eggs. The writers were showing he was a hustler but it wasn't properly developed. The audience had to make the leap. On top of this, a 100 year old demon is shown knowing less about demon eggs than Riley...which made several fans roll their eyes. The scenes in the crypt with Riley/Spike and Buffy caused many fans to wince and feel sorry for Spike, not Buffy. Buffy came across as worse than Spike was to many fans.
Now I had no problems seeing Spike as the dealer, but I was also spoiled for the episode, so it didn't come as a surprise like it did for everyone else.
Other things that didn't work - the other characters were used as place-setters. Willow's interaction with Sam made little sense and seemed awkward at times.
It would have been easy to fix As You Were - just a mention between Spike and Clem in OAFA. Some indication that B/S weren't doing it anymore in the lower part of the crypt. We have no sense of time here. Or we could have them allow Spike to explain it, which Buffy never does. Because clearly the demon egg incident is irrelevant to Buffy - what is relevant is that she is using Spike, he is the wrong guy for her and as Mary Sue Sam states - better no guy than the wrong guy. Which worked but made the audience groan at the obivousness of it.
Oh - editing, lighting, customes, set design - choppy. This could have to do with how rushed they were - they only had a day or two to work with Marc Blucas - PEtrie was directing his second episode and writing it, and Whedon was busy with something else - so I think that may have caused some of the problems. But watch AYW then compare it to oh
Dead Things or Surprise or even Goodbye Iowa and note the differences in production.
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One small defense of AYW -- KdS, 11:44:11 01/26/03 Sun
I thought Sam was sort of meant to be implausibly perfect. It makes her Buffy's idealised self if all her end-S4 start-S5 dreams had come true - glamorous, clever, enthusiastic, perceptive, able to jet off to exotic climes whenever she wants to with no family ties, able to shag Riley whenever she wants to, capable of clobbering demons even without the official Slayer status. Just helps to make the comparison to Buffy's life even more wounding.
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I think that's what they were going for -- shadowkat, 11:57:02 01/26/03 Sun
I thought Sam was sort of meant to be implausibly perfect. It makes her Buffy's idealised self if all her end-S4 start-S5 dreams had come true - glamorous, clever, enthusiastic, perceptive, able to jet off to exotic climes whenever she wants to with no family ties, able to shag Riley whenever she wants to, capable of clobbering demons even without the official Slayer status. Just helps to make the comparison to Buffy's life even more wounding.
Oh it was meant to be. I think the episode was meant to be a sort of - look at the Jones - how great they are - I should be like that! Episode.
They try to do it with each of the SG. Xander who sees the perfect marriage, reiterating his wish that the marriage will be perfect, no problems, and the wedding is easy to handle. Willow who sees the perfect relationship and a friend who reassures her on her fight against addiction reitering her wish it is just an addiction. Buffy's fantasy of the perfect boyfriend, job, etc.
But if you watch carefully you see some interesting fallacies: 1. Perfect marriage but no wedding rings, always in danger, and the hubby still has the hots for the ex, enough of which not to tell said ex about his wife until he absolutely has to. 2. Perfect job - except they screw up, the monster gets killed, they have to destroy all the eggs, and they almost get killed themselves and Buffy has to save them. 3. Addiction -eh - except the shamans got consumed and Sam knows zip about magic, she never practiced it and only has known two shamans.
If the episode had been better written and produced - it could have been brillant. The idea certainly was. Great idea. Badly executed. Which was I was sooo disappointed in it. It's like watching a trapeze artist fall into the net.
Or a football player fumble the ball. You wince. Ugh - that was such a brillant pass, how, how could you ruine it?
I sort of wish they'd re-do it...fix a few odds and ends.
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Re: I think that's what they were going for -- Malandanza, 20:37:30 01/26/03 Sun
"3. Addiction -eh - except the shamans got consumed and Sam knows zip about magic, she never practiced it and only has known two shamans."
I liked that Sam both knew that magic was extremely dangerous (have seen two shamans "Gone" as in nothing left) and was willing to use Willow for her mission. She's the kind of girl Dr. Walsh would have approved of -- and I felt sorry for Riley. He made a series of mistakes with Buffy, but compounded those errors by hastily marrying Sam. He's probably enough of a boyscout to stick with for better or worse.
I think there was a post some time ago in the archives (the search engine seems to be down so I can't check) about scars in the Buffyverse as outer symbols of inner damage. AYW never seemed like an example of the perfect life to me -- Riley's life is far from ideal.
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Problems with AYW -- KdS, 11:16:31 01/26/03 Sun
Some of these I see as important, some not, but these seem to be the most common questions:
How can Spike be a demon arms dealer when he's a social outcast hated by all other demons and doesn't even have a telephone line? (Personal theory which will upset some people is that Clem was "the Doctor")
If the demon arrived in Sunnydale so recently (not low-profile) and wasn't intelligent then how did Spike get the eggs? The demon wasn't meeting him and it didn't seem to have any opportunity to lay its eggs in Spike's crypt. If the eggs belonged to an earlier demon then why did the one Riley was chasing coincidentally appear in SD, as these demons are solitary and non-sentient?
If these demons breed so fast why are they nearly extinct?
Regarding the "hero was the villain" issue, Riley does seem in this episode to have philosophically regressed to his old "follow orders, demons bad, humans good" mindset. Some people have suggested that Riley and Sam were actually trying to get the eggs for the government rather than destroy them as they pretended - don't see any major support for this in the ep, but nothing to rule it out either.
Add to this a gratuitous reference to the misbegotten and pathologising "magic as physically addictive" metaphor and an awful lot of people were displeased.
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actually ignore my response - read KDS' -- shadowkat, 11:21:29 01/26/03 Sun
KdS points out the problems better than I did. And they echo the others posted at the time.
SK
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Ignore SK' subject line, her post does have some extra good stuff :-) -- KdS, 11:23:33 01/26/03 Sun
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More Problems with AYW -- Sophist, 11:39:44 01/26/03 Sun
SK and KdS have done so well, but here are 2 that really grated on me:
1. The not so implicit suggestion that Riley was "the one" for Buffy and she had missed him. Doug Petrie (who wrote the episode) clearly believes this, but most fans certainly don't. It was heavy-handed.
2. Riley's condescending statements to Buffy, such as "He's evil or had you forgotten that?" and "It doesn't really touch you".
Check the archives for Feb 2002. There are lots of posts detailing the flaws.
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Thanks, guys! -- Peggin, 20:08:19 01/26/03 Sun
Thanks guys! I will go check the archives, but based on what you have said here, I guess most of those things just weren't problems for me, story-wise. I mean, I can see how these things would bother other people, but most of it worked for me. Not that I'm saying it was a great episode, but I could probably list about 20 or that I think were worse.
But, of the problems listed here (and I still have to check the archives), the only one I had a problem with was the comment about how the demons breed quickly but are almost extinct. The problems with production values I'll have to take your word on; that's not the sort of thing I generally notice. I think six years spent obsessed with Highlander immunized me to things like that. I'd be surprised if the worst episode of Buffy, in terms of production values, wasn't still better than 95% of what I saw on Highlander.
As for the rest of it, I heard Spike say that he was holding the eggs for someone else, which was good enough for me as far as (1) how he got the eggs when the demon had just showed up in town and (2) why Buffy had never seen any evidence of eggs before that.
As for Riley seeming "Mary Sue", from the moment we found out Riley was Mr. Initiative, he always struck me as a Mary Sue (hence the wishful thinking -- I would have liked it a lot if they *had* played the story as if Riley was the villain, I just didn't see any evidence of it in the episode). The only time I ever found him interesting at all was when he started getting out of control right before he left, and it didn't surprise me to see him acting like his old self when he showed up in town.
The addiction thing is a problem I have with All the Way, when they first started with all the "you're using too much, you have to stop" stuff. If I dislike a storyline, I'll might points off the first episode in which it was introduced, but once it has been made part of the universe, I tend to shrug it off when it reappears in later episodes. (For example, I hated the acid trip in Wrecked because it was just so over the top, but since AtW had already convinced me they were going for substance abuse, I didn't have a problem with the rest of that episode.) I compare this to the way I don't take off points of every episode from Doomed through Into the Woods just because Buffy was still dating Riley.
I can see other people having problems with these things, but most of it didn't bother me. Anyway, thanks for the explanations!
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I tend to agree with you. -- Rob, 23:26:12 01/26/03 Sun
For the most part, the plot holes that other people found really didn't bother me terribly much. Again, not the best episode ever, but I didn't notice any production values problems nor horrible plot holes. The demon eggs thing may have been a bit of a stretch, but again, didn't bother me that much. There may have been a better way to show that YES SPIKE IS STILL EVIL, especially one that didn't make Buffy look like the bad guy for dumping him for said evil, but I basically liked the gist of the episode. And it was good, if only for breaking up Buffy and Spike. And, yes this is coming from a B/S shipper. If Buffy and Spike are going to be rekindled this season, I would be all for that. But at that point, mid sixth season, their relationship was extremely unhealthy. Now, I actually think they could work it out.
I actually have kind of a soft spot for the episode, if only because it has what I think is one of the best titles of any "Buffy" episode ever. I'm also a big Doug Petrie fan, so it gets a few points from me just for that.
Rob
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Re: I tend to agree with you. -- Peggin, 04:08:59 01/27/03 Mon
For the most part, the plot holes that other people found really didn't bother me terribly much. Again, not the best episode ever, but I didn't notice any production values problems nor horrible plot holes.
Minor plot holes, like Riley's "nearly extinct breeders" comment, might make me crinkle my brow and go "huh?" for a moment, but they don't generally bother me enough to keep me from enjoying an episode. I think this is another thing I carried over from my Highlander days. Plot holes? Highlander had so many that we had an acronym for it (YAHI: Yet Another Highlander Inconsistency). But most of us on the newsgroup were more into watching the story for the themes than for the line by line plotting. Donna Lettow and Gillian Horvath (two of the Highlander writers who put on a wicked cool show at conventions) have said that most of the time the writers set out to engage in "A Talmudic discussion with kick-ass sword fights", and the religious undertones really came through in a lot of the episodes.
That's the same thing that drew me in to Buffy fandom -- the deep philosophical meaning I see behind many of the storylines (along with the kick-ass fights!). IMO, BtVS does this even better than than Highlander did, so much so that I'd be amazed to find out that Joss wasn't deliberately going for the same kind of exploration of religion and philosophy as Donna & Gillian said they were engaged in.
especially one that didn't make Buffy look like the bad guy for dumping him for said evil
I didn't see Buffy as a bad guy for this at all. To me, the whole Spuffy thing last year was about the allure of evil. Evil can be attractive, but you can't have a "relationship" with it without "picking up it's flavor" (I loved that line!). Just as Andrew became evil-like by hanging out with Warren, the more time Buffy spent with someone she knew was evil, the closer she came to becoming evil herself. To me, breaking up with Spike was the first *good* thing Buffy had done in a long time.
I am an S/B 'shipper (more or less; I'm not in the 'ship just for the sake of seeing them together, but because I think it makes a great story), but I never wanted to see Buffy involved in a real relationship with Spike unless he completely turned his back on evil. At the end of season five, I would have bought that Spike could do that without getting a soul. But once Spike tried to kill that girl in Smashed, I knew Spike was still evil and I therefore had very little problem with the way Buffy was treating him. So long as Spike remained evil, I had more of a problem with Buffy having any kind of relationship with him at all than I did with her behavior towards him.
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Re: I tend to agree with you. -- MaeveRigan, 11:22:00 01/28/03 Tue
"I'd be amazed to find out that Joss wasn't deliberately going for the same kind of exploration of religion and philosophy as Donna & Gillian said they were engaged in."
Deliberately? Probably not, since Joss has declared again and again that he's an atheist, even "a very hard-line, angry atheist." On the other hand, he's also said that he's "fascinated by the concept of devotion" (I can get you the citations for these quotes, if you're interested), and we know that the telling of the story becomes, for him, a kind of sacred thing--"a religion in narrative." Also, even though Joss is at the helm, he's not the only writer, so I'm wary of giving him all the credit for every bit of philosophical/theological goodness in the series.
At the same time, themes do reveal themselves. Consider manwitch's recent "Something else entirely" 1-3 posts. Why do these things come through? Because, IMHO (which others may not agree with), they are true, regardless of the belief or disbelief of the writer. Tolkien (who did believe in God, of course) once said that "Man [...] comes from God, and it is from God that he draws his ultimate ideals. [...] Not merely the abstract thoughts of man but also his imaginative inventions must originate with God, and in consequence reflect something of eternal truth. In making a myth, [...] a storyteller [...] is actually fulfilling God's purpose, and reflecting a splintered fragment of the true light." (qtd. in Tolkien: A Celebration, ed. Joseph Pierce, p. 130)
Feel free to disagree, of course. I appreciate and respect most reasonable interpretations of the Buffy text and subtext, theist or atheist.
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Re: Question on AYW -- Miss Edith, 01:39:28 01/27/03 Mon
A lot of people were unhappy with the Riley worship from all characters (particularly Xander and Buffy). Some people were unhappy at how poorly Buffy was portrayed with a vampire telling her she smelt too bad to fight for instance. Some thought Buffy came across badly in the crypt scene. E.g when Spike is in tears saying she is playing mind games with him and she exchanges quips with Riley about shutting Spike up. Caused many fans to see the heroine as cold-hearted. The break up scene was also a tad self-involved on Buffy's part and some people were just not happy with the portrayal of characters at all.
As for plot holes. It was conceivable that Spike was dealing in demon eggs as it was set up in DMP that he wanted to get money for Buffy. The problem was James played Spike as totally bewildered "why do you keep calling me that" so I don't know if the actor was misdirected as he was in the trial scenes or if fan speculation is right and the eggs were planted on him. I certainly don't see why he would call himself such a similiar name to Doc who defeated him in The Gift, reminding him of his failure. Not to mention the demon being nearly extinct, yet reproducing at such speed.
There were a lot of other plot holes commented on that I can't think of right now. Suffice to say it's not one of my favourite episodes. The main criticism I have read is that all the regulars were dumbed down for the purpose of licking Riley's boots. This wasn't appreciated by those of us who thought it was Riley who should have been apologising to Buffy for the relationship break-up.
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Re: Question on AYW -- Alison, 12:19:00 01/27/03 Mon
I hated the episode, but I actually thought it was sort of sweet that Spike was trying to get money for Buffy...and I felt so bad for him because no one, not even the majority of the fans, seemed to notice.
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Re: I'm not a shipper...ugh! I'm a plotter. (warning mini rant) -- Rufus, 10:39:02 01/26/03 Sun
If I meant you as a shipper I would have said Shadowkat is a shipper......so I said people because that's what I see on the boards I visit....no matter which charater they favor....some people only look at the show for a ship they like......I feel that they are missing out because they sometimes don't get what the writers are saying as they view certain characters as "flaw free". I see that every character in the show has flaws making them way more interesting than if they had been like Riley (I still like the guy hated AYW)and Sam.
So though I mention shippers it wasn't specific to you.....the plotter you are....;)
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Re: I'm not a shipper...ugh! I'm a plotter. [spoilers for BtVS 7.11 and AtS 4.09] -- slain, 15:36:25 01/26/03 Sun
I had a long post written about my own disillusionment in BtVS vs. AtS, but by the end of it I'd argued myself out of it. My feeling now is that we have to be patient with BtVS; current events are going to be interesting in hindsight, and I think that at the moment the writers are treading water a little writing, average episodes, looking forward to some more interesting and revelatory event which will reflect on the characters as we see them now.
AtS doesn't work like that, as the plot comes before the characters and it's not so much a metaphor for them; so I think it's natural to be looking forward to AtS much more than BtVS, at least now that AtS seems to have got the hang on plot. That's how the shows are designed, I think; in AtS, they could reasonably end each episode with a voiceover saying "Tune in next week to see how our heroes get out of this one!". But in BtVS, it's more "Tune in next week to see the character's journeys metaphorically reflected in events!". So I'm interested in seeing how AI get the orb of whatsit out of the Beast, but I wasn't interested in how Buffy killed the Ubervamp, but rather how it reflected on her journey and her transition from follower to leader.
As for the original point - well, to be honest if Spike was my favourite character on the show (instead of my second or possibly third favourite) I'd be pretty disillusioned right now, just like I was mid Season 4 when Willow was my favourite and she was being sidelined. However, again, I think there's something brewing for Spike and all the characters, and that the best policy is to be patient. We shouldn't have to be patient, of course, we should be distracted by the quality of individual episodes and be interested simply on the level of "Tune in next week to see what wacky adventures befall these crazy kids!".
But maybe in the end of the day how much we're interested in the show has less to do with the show itself, and more to do with us or even this board in general. I just wrote a long essay on AtS; so I'm suddenly interested in that show. I just read a long essay on BtVS; now I'm interested in that show. So screw patience; really it's up to us how much we enjoy the show, by how much we read into it and discuss it, as after all that's the only thing we have control over.
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character shipping vs. writer shipping -- shadowkat, 18:47:58 01/26/03 Sun
Wasn't going to post on this anymore - since well takes away from the thrust of the great post above, then realized all posts to this thread keep manwitch's essays on the board longer - which is of the good.
I'm not really a character shipper, I know lots of people who are. And from some of my posts - I can see how someone would jump to that conclusion - but my favorite episode this years so far is Selfless - which didn't feature any of my favorite characters, rather if featured the character that I was least interested in. But the writing was amazing, everything worked. No missteps. And for the first time in a very long time - I got really really interested in Anya. I'm more of a writing shipper (favs are Espenson, Goddard, Minear, Bell, Whedon, and DeKnight at the moment, though Mere Smith is growing on me - also like great directing - Nick Marc. Minear. and Whedon. ) - I appreciate, tight, multi-layered writing, and visuals - Buffy IMHO is still the most multi-layered and visual show on TV. It just has a few blemishes at the moment. ;-) (Potential bugged me b/c it didn't flow together really until the second half - a difficulty I see in Rand Kirshner's writing style - same thing happened in Help. Showtime - was overly cluttered. BoTN confusing and cluttered. I saw the brillance of all three lying under the surface - and desperately wanted to push it to the fore - somewhat the same way I felt about AYW. The multilayered theme is fascinating but we have to weed through a lot of unpolished production mistakes and writing flubs to get there. Meanwhile - Angel's production is so polished, SFX and visual angles beautifully rendered and uncluttered - I almost wish we could switch the writers for a few episodes or the production teams just to see what happens. Then again maybe I'm nuts or something about my Dtv reception is wonky ;-))
Character shipping does however take away from your viewing pleasure. If the reason you are watching this show is say to see Willow's journey - you're probably miserable. If it's to watch Xander's - yep same thing. If however you are a big Buffyshipper - desperately in love with or identify with the character - and want to learn more - you are probably fine.
I ship for characters sure. My fav's are Spike and Willow, no question. I started watching the series for ASH - who was rarely seen. But my main interest is in what manwitch notes above - the ability to find so many different metaphors and themes with in it. There is no one way of interpreting this series. It is NOT mindless brain candy a la Charmed. The stories have multi-layered themes about growing up, family, existentialism, spiritual enlightenment, and love. It metanarrates on pop culture, makes fun of trends, and twists genre traditions inside out.
You can watch one episode five different times and see something you didn't notice before each time you see it.
Which is why I watch it. But like everything else - I get disllusioned at times...hoping desperately that I'm not seeing more than is really there.
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Re: character shipping vs. writer shipping -- Doriander, 23:32:11 01/26/03 Sun
I almost wish we could switch the writers for a few episodes or the production teams just to see what happens.
I can't tell you how much I've repeatedly visualized how Sleeper would've turned out at the capable hands of Minear, or Help and Potential were they penned by Mere Smith, or the Beljoxa's eye were it replaced by Ginza. I'm in love with Goddard though. He has this knack for making jarring amazingly seamless, and he seems to be the only writer left with a good hold on continuity.
S6 to me (or really the advent of the UPN years), in terms of production was a year long workshop for ME. Writers got to experiment, depart from the tried and true formula of past seasons. They suddenly had this freedom from S&P, bigger budget to work with (I remember being amazed with the production of 'Bargaining'). Some writers even attempted directing. One assistant got an opportunity to pen an ep (Diego Guiterrez). They had the musical, an amazing accomplishment that even featured singing parts for two members of the writing team. The stunt people experimented with wire-fu. It's all very inspiring when you think about it; the creative team, seemingly like a theater company. I'll go as far as to say it was perhaps the most enjoyable year for them, creative wise. I'm just not sure it was best for the show.
The downside, it was done at the expense of the final product presented on screen, to which we, the viewers/fans, were subjected to. First attempts can turn out great, see Musical and Normal Again. But as with any experiment, you can't always churn out successes and I'm not particularly enthused at having to taste someone's failed attempt at baking cookies. Master the recipe in your own time, then share. And really evaluate yourself to see if your cut out for it. I'm loathe to admit that S6 at times had a wisp of self-indulgence on the part of ME. I'm all for taking creative risks, it's what made me a fan of this show in the first place. Just that before there's a strong sense that for them, the show always came first. No matter what crazy idea they thought up, it's all towards the goal of making the show the best that it could be. I didn't get that security in S6, of ME regarding the show as top priority so much as "I want to try directing. Can I Joss, can I?" "Err..." "No fair! You let Doug do it. *pout*" "Oh all right, David ol' boy." "You're the bestest! Can I write the finale too?" (That's my attempt at grasping your idea of 'writer shipping' by the way. Joss-David. Note my hyphen use.)
I too got disillusioned this week, interestingly after seeing LDJ, to the point that I just didn't care and gave in to spoilers. Now I'm smacking myself, wishing I didn't. I'm spoiled up to ep 15 now. Really amazing stuff coming up, if they do it right. Hang in there.
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Re: Something Else Entirely, Part 3 -- Rufus, 22:29:31 01/25/03 Sat
Also, Tara is the name of a Buddhist divinity that is the personification of a tear of divine compassion from one of the great Bodhisattvas. So Buffy's spirit is also opening its heart to compassion.
I wrote a post on the Goddess Tara last year.......
Conversebuffyverse: The Symbolic Use of Tara
I think it's still something to consider.
The word that comes to mind when I think of Buffy's story, and the rest of the gang for that matter is "metamorphosis". In BTVS I think of it as a spiritual metamorphosis, with Buffy going through the stages of living where her combined experience of life and the afterlife combine to create what we know now as Buffy. All her knowledge of the world, her interactions with others (consider the use of Tara in season six)will complete the transformation that started when Buffy found out she was a slayer.
From The Gift season five.....
BUFFY: Come on. Say it. We're bloody well talking about this. Tell me to kill my sister.
GILES: (whispers) She's not your sister.
BUFFY: (pause) No. She's not. She's more than that. She's me. The monks made her out of me. I hold her ... and I feel closer to her than ... (looks down, sighs) It's not just the memories they built. It's physical. Dawn ... is a part of me. The only part that I- (stops)
WILLOW: We'll solve this. We will. Don't have another coma, okay?
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Your Tara post -- luna, 06:59:49 01/26/03 Sun
is really also excellent and very worthwhile reading--I had never really considered the implications of the name. Why not repost the whole thing on this board--it's a little hard (not very) to find on the Yahoo board.
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Re: Your Tara post -- MaeveRigan, 11:56:08 01/28/03 Tue
Didn't Etrangere write a post on the Buddhist significance of Tara as well? Or am I dreaming?
Where has Etrangere been, anyway? Things aren't strange enough with him. Or her.
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It was Rufus -- Etrangere, 13:03:32 01/28/03 Tue
Who made a great post about Tara's Boudhist signification IIRC.
And I'm a "her". :)
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Hey Ete! Good to see you! -- ponygirl, 13:24:13 01/28/03 Tue
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Merci, Etrangere! We miss you! -- MaeveRigan, 09:32:23 01/29/03 Wed
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You're post is one on the Trollop Board -- Rufus, 22:36:56 01/25/03 Sat
I combined them and posted the whole at Conversebuffyverse
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conversebuffyverse/message/6605
or the direct link....
Something Else Entirely
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It's not 'Something Else Entirely'.... -- cjl, 22:45:49 01/25/03 Sat
It's "the essence of the series EXACTLY."
Manwitch, I do believe you've nailed it. Best overall analysis of BtVS I've ever seen. If Joss doesn't practice Yoga (or if he hasn't read about Kundalini Yoga), I'd be very much surprised.
Oh, and by the way...
KABOOM.
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To further support the mighty Kaboomage that is manwitch -- ponygirl, 16:48:58 01/26/03 Sun
While I don't know if Joss has studied yoga, Alan Moore's comic book series Promethea features a detailed (and quite sexy) explanation of the chakras that supports all of manwitch's points. David Fury has been quoted as saying that he and Joss drew a lot from Promethea for the episode Primeval, so it can safe to say that Joss has some knowledge of Kundalini.
What else to say except wow and wow again? Manwitch you rock!
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Re: To further support the mighty Kaboomage that is manwitch -- Rosie, 00:35:53 01/27/03 Mon
I would say most if not all 'eastern' religions are well represented. Both Adam as Season 4's big bad and Willow as season six's big bad. They have so many themes that are related to the basic teachings of Taoism, and the the Budda it's not even funny.
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Re: To further support the mighty Kaboomage that is manwitch -- MaeveRigan, 12:02:02 01/28/03 Tue
David Fury has been quoted....where? Inquiring minds need to know this kind of thing.
Thanks!
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I think... -- ponygirl, 13:21:52 01/28/03 Tue
that he mentioned it in the commentary for Primeval. I believe Rahael or some other kind transcriber put it up on the board. I did buy Promethea's collected issues as a direct result and have been quite enjoying the series.
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Promethea -- Etrangere, 14:22:31 01/28/03 Tue
I've read them recently, it's quite a great work. A real visuel and narrative visit to the most famous esoteric systems.
There's definitly a similarity with BtVS.
Read it everyone !
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Re: Promethea -- ponygirl, 06:55:00 01/29/03 Wed
Oh yes, though now that I've gone through all the collected graphic novels and am getting the comic books as they come out it's a bit maddening. Two months between issues! And you never know if you're going to get something that moves the plot along or an entire issue devoted to the meaning of the Tarot. It's fascinating either way but I want more more more!
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He did mention it in Primeval commentary -- shadowkat, 21:42:07 01/28/03 Tue
In Season 4 DVD for Primeval - in the commentary, David Fury states something alone the lines: we were trying to figure out what to do, we knew wanted to combine them and create an uberslayer and someone mentioned this cool idea in the Promethea graphic novels. So I went out and got them
and basically stole the entire idea from it. We stole the effects from the Matrix - b/c we had all just seen it and were enamored of the film. For exact quotage go to the archives and see if Rah posted on it. I know she's done the other ones.
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Thanks, sk! -- MaeveRigan, 12:38:43 01/29/03 Wed
If the archive search function really is working again, maybe I can find it...
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Speechless... this is brilliant, stirring and IMPORTANT. -- yez, 07:46:02 01/26/03 Sun
I'll be thinking about this for a long time. Thank you.
yez, off to by some Campbell...
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I bow to your brilliance and intelligence! -- Dichotomy, 10:14:57 01/26/03 Sun
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destiny?? who says...? -- prometheus, 10:17:06 01/27/03 Mon
Re season 1:
when Buffy went to hell to face the master in spite of the prophesy of her death, she did turn out okay and learned her little lesson and all, but was that the point? I got something completely different. after you read this read steven's posting: narrative syntax of Buffy. I'll use his model to explain my point.
If steven is corect - and it seems so - then the root of the struggle is about whos will shall be done, who has more power. Buffy didn't need to choose her 'destiny' - choosing 'destiny' almost screwed things up. who, pray tell, wrote those 'prophesies' - and are they perhaps self-fullfilling, coming to be because idiots and children and uncertain personalities see the words of others as 'destiny'??
Buffy and the master were two competing wills. But not because of some good vs. evil responsibility trip. It was the master's will that Buffy should go to hell to face hhim - that's how he gets loose. What manwitch calls Buffy's destiny is actually the master's destiny, and Buffy is his tool. he wants the slayer to come - she comes. he wants her dead - she dies. Xander has to save her butt - which he can do onlly because of one thing -
Now, Buffy, as you will recall, didn't not want to go to hell simply out of fear - She wanted to go to the school dance!! Her will was to go dance, and ignore the problem. In manwitch's model, this would have bbeen a total lacck of responsibilty, a denial of destiny - but, as it turns out, going to the dance was exactly what she should have done!!! The whole problem would have never been had she just followed her own will and gone partying.
So the lesson is that Buffy wins if she does as her heart tells her, regardless of 'destiny.' The only reason she was savable was because the master screwed up - he intended to trick her into hell, which would have been her defeat, as it would have meant that she went against her will. but she told the annointed to not bother, she knowss, and is going freely - but she only gets a stalemate, because she has given up the dance.
I saw season 1 not as Buffy needing to accept her destiny, but as Buffy needing to accept her own power to decide her own destiny - and, dammit, she needs to lighted up and dance her ass off periodically - it does get the demons scared when we dance in the face of fear...
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Definitely gets the brain firing... -- Darby, 05:52:14 01/26/03 Sun
But I'd argue that Season 5 is about Family and the need to raise and then get out of the way of the next generation. Glory / Ben are repeatedly presented in terms of dysfunctional family, Dracula is presented as looking for his connection to Buffy, and of course Dawn and Joyce (and even Riley as a husband figure) are pivotal through the season. Dawn is Buffy having children without a pesky pregnancy, but I completely agree with the metaphorical nature here - it's just that your other season metaphors are definitely recognizable in the season opener (always transitional and foreshadowing, but I needed your post to see that) and through the season, but I don't see your spiritual metaphor as that through arrow. The last few episodes definitely get wrapped up in some religious imagery, but there's more of a disconnect - the Knights were more like Monty Python's version of the Spanish Inquisition than an integral part of the storyline.
Beyond this one quibble, though, I've got to say that I'm in awe here.
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The value of good acts? -- Sara, 09:31:17 01/26/03 Sun
Overwhelming, interesting, fabulous post! Got a question on the pursuit of good versus the pursuit of happiness. If it's the motive of the actor not the act itself that constitutes the morality (which I pretty much buy into) and Angel is pursing good not for happiness but to be worthy to be happy, with the hope that the Powers That Be will in the end allow him to feel true happiness, isn't that kind of the same thing as doing something to be happy, only in a more mature, delayed gratification way? There is still the reward at the end of the journey. I'm slowly developing a view in which the pursuit of good, and the pursuit of happiness are not really connected. Doing good should be purely for the sake of good, no reward, no going to heaven when you die, just because it's what you should do. I can't explain or even defend it adequately, but I have a strong gut feeling that there is absolute good and that we should strive for it just because we should. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy. If you can't pursue happiness that would leave you with a world without hope - perhaps Sartre's despair? Pursuing happiness isn't bad, but if it's about being good, than you're back to an ulterior motive and are not really doing good for good's sake. And yet can we do good purely for good's sake, is there any real purity in the world? (Even Ivory soap is only 99.9%, wonder what the .1% is? hmmm...) In the way the world works, I'm with Hobbes and enlightened self-interest, so why does it seem like good should be done without an end in mind? It just seems like it should.
- Sara, rambly and confused and thinking about the meaning of life, one of my least favorite subjects...
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Go, Sara! -- dub ;o), 09:37:14 01/26/03 Sun
I think you're about to become a Buddhist! Great post.
;o)
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Hey, does that mean I get to hang out with Richard Gere? -- Sara, losing entire collection of lack of self-interest pts, 12:31:14 01/26/03 Sun
I may have a little more work to do...
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Pursuing good and happiness -- shadowkat, 10:20:57 01/26/03 Sun
Hmmm...I've been thinking about this as well, just finished re-reading manwitch's post this morning, and I think it's not that one shouldn't pursue happiness or that in pursuing good - one can't be happy.
I think it has to do with how you do it? As an example: Buffy and her sexual desires in Season 2 and to some extent Season 6 - she pursues the sex to feel good. To be happy.
Achieves a moment of happiness with Angel in Surprise. But, here's the thing - she does it at the cost of others -it's inherently selfish. It's not about making Angel happy or doing what's best for everyone else - it's well about Buffy giving into lust. The same thing in Season 6 - she has sex with Spike not because she wants to express her love for Spike or to be close to him, but to punish herself, to escape from the world and herself - it is selfish. Same with Riley - she doesn't have sex with Riley nor is she with Riley to express love or caring for him - but to relax and deal with the tragedy in her own life.
When we do good - like say smiling at your neighbor, or assisting someone up the stairs, or loaning a book or even sharing thoughts like manwitch does above - we renew a connection with the world - a link - and it makes us feel happy inside. When we hurt someone or do something out of our selfish hedonistic desire, regardless of who it hurts, we cut that link, we move away from our connection. Example when you squash or pick a flower in a botantical garden - you take away the possibility of anyone else seeing that flower, you remove the bees source of food, the chance for more flowers to grow - you break a link. Another example - when you ignore someone who is stumbling down the stairs, almost knocking them down in your rush to get somewhere - you ignore that link and later feel bad about it. When you use someone else for your own pleasure without regard for them - you ignore the link as well. Angel is guilty of this when he sleeps with Darla in Season 2 Angel or fires all his friends or pushes Cordy or Wes away from him. Buffy is guilty of it in Season 3, when she keeps Angel a secret from the gang.
It's not that you shouldn't pursue good to make yourself happy, so much as it's you shouldn't go through life with the view that "no matter what I do" it doesn't matter as long as I'm happy doing it or it serves my own happiness.
Angelus and Spike (soulless Spike), Darla and Dru - go through their vampire existences with the view "want, take, have" as long as I'm "happy" nothing matters. Spike's love for Buffy isn't realized until he pushes past that. Before that - it was the selfish desire motivating him. Angel is the same way. There's a difference between expressing love for someone - sexually or otherwise - by sharing yourself with them and using them to make yourself feel good - the using part seldom, paradoxically, makes us happy. We just have that brief moment, then despair and horror sets in.
Examples - Buffy and Spike in Smashed then Wrecked. Buffy has that brief moment of happiness...then utter horror at her actions. We see it again in AYW - brief moment of happiness "It works for a while...but the fact I'm using you is killing me". OTOH - Willow and Tara's relationship is about sharing, they wish to make the other person happy, Willow is most interested in making Tara feel good and Tara is most interested about making Willow feel good and they want to share each other and that feeling with everyone else, not hide it - so out they come sharing it with Dawn which makes Dawn happy and with Buffy...
We tend to be happier when we help someone, give and when we let people share interests and likes with us, recieve - there's a difference between receiving and taking, just as there's a difference between giving and dumping. When we freely give and receive with others - whether that be an exchange of smiles or a handshake or a hug or just lending out a book - we are renewing our link with each other and that makes us spiritually happy.
Not sure that made sense.
SK
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problem with Selfishness -- lunasea, 18:46:41 01/26/03 Sun
The problem with doing for others is that you see them as others, thus feeding the illusion that there is a you. Same thing with selfishness. It is all based on their being a *you* and there being *others*.
What everyone wrote is now a part of "me." What I wrote is now a part of "you." I am not sure where you leave off and I begin.
It is the belief in "me" that perpetuates suffering. The only way to cease it is to abandon this belief. It isn't just a link. It is Vidya.
But now I am getting into the 7th Chakra. Very hard to talk about it. I can't wait to see how Joss symbolizes it. Until we are there "love, give, forgive" works just fine. If we want to make it all the way, even love, give, forgive are illusions that must be abandoned.
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lunasea, this is one of my favorite posts ever. -- manwitch, 04:15:47 01/28/03 Tue
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Re: lunasea, this is one of my favorite posts ever. -- lunasea, 07:37:55 01/28/03 Tue
The only thing I can say is "Wow."
After that tremendous post you did, that really crystalized the overall arcs so wonderfully, I write one of your favorite posts ever? On my first day here? (so maybe I can say a few more things)
Now I am blushing. I used to not do that.
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Re: The value of good acts? -- slain, 15:46:32 01/26/03 Sun
I think the difference is that Angel doesn't actually know if there'll be a reward; he hasn't made an agreement with the Powers that if he does good, then he'll be happy. Rather he does good because he feels he should do, with a long term hope that maybe one day there might be a reward. He's often becomes disillusioned with this, and becomes cynical about the prospect that doing good will bring any happiness. I get the feeling that he considered Connor in a reward from the Powers for his doing good; and that, therefore, this happiness being taken away from him was a judgment that he could never be happy.
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Figured I'd jump in -- lunasea, 18:35:48 01/26/03 Sun
Newbie here. I hate saying that, but this *is* my first post.
I wanted to touch on the whole being worthy of happiness idea. I have just started to go through the archives, so I don't know what has and hasn't been talked about.
I see Angel as the model of a Bodhisattva (I have a pretty decent essay about the scopes and how this played out on AtS) and Buffy as the Buddha. (I pratice Rinzai Zen) Buffy will enter Nirvana and Angel has renounced it until all sentient beings are there.
It isn't about happiness. Those outside the stream seem to see everything in terms of craving, so that is how Buffy and Angel are viewed.
Buffy's mission statement is the end of "Grave," with The Prayer of St. Francis. Angel's is the Champions speech at the end of "Deep Down."
Angel surpassed wanting his reward in "Epiphany." It is those who are still working for a reward that see him working for it. They can't fathom anything else.
I love watching AtS because all the Zen concepts are illustrated so wonderfully. Angel isn't working for anything. He just is. The world around him is crap, but he just keeps trying, keeps plugging along. It doesn't even matter if he makes a difference. He just does what he must.
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Questions about Buddhism, Kundalin Yoga and Welcome -- shadowkat, 19:06:06 01/26/03 Sun
Welcome to the board. Thanks for the post!
First, I must confess that I really know zip about yoga and very little about Buddhism. They aren't concepts I'm readily familar with or have studied, so many of the things in your post sort of confused me.
So could you answer a few questions? It might help clear things up.
Is there a difference between :
Rinzai Zen and the Kundalini Yoga (in manwitch's post)
or are these the same?
If so, I think it might matter in understanding the concepts discussed.
What are the precepts of each? Does Rinzai Zen have seven chakras? What exactly is a Bodhisattva and how is this different from a Buddha? What is the seventh chakra?
And where could I go to get more information on this?
Can you give more information on how the two series fit into these two religious/spiritual doctrines?
Sorry, for being so dense about this. Just a little confused.
SK
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Re: Questions about Buddhism, Kundalin Yoga and Welcome -- Wisewoman, 19:35:24 01/26/03 Sun
Butting in, if I may. For the Buddhism novice, my absolute favourite site is: http://www.buddhanet.net/
And welcome lunasea!
;o)
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Re: Questions about Buddhism, Kundalin Yoga and Welcome -- lunasea, 08:16:50 01/27/03 Mon
Yoga is typically Hindu, not Buddhist. Hinduism's roots lie with Brahamism and Buddhism is a reaction to Brahamism (much the same way that Christianity is a reaction to Judaism, sort of to "fix" what was perceived as wrong). Hinduism is Brahamism plus a reaction to Buddhism. It gets pretty complicated to separate them.
Both rely on mediation as the key to enlightenment, but the practices differ. In Kundalini Yoga various states are reached through physical activity and releasing the energy of the body. In Zen breathing is all that is required for enlightenment.
I will post a thread about how Angel is a Bodhisattva to explain it. Angel has a lot of Zen themes to it. That is what drew me to it. Stuff I was having trouble understanding was illustrated so wonderfully for me, on TV no less.
It is the Eastern perspective of the show that seems to be the most misunderstood. Someone named Joss has to at least been exposed to it. (it is Chinese misprounciation the Portugues word deos. It means idol, but commonly refers to the sweet smelling incense sticks used in temple ceremonies.) Buffy to me was more Western in perspective and Angel more Eastern.
I liked Manwitch's essay because it did give a good Eastern perspective to Buffy. It also did it in a way that Westerners would understand it.
BuddhaNet.net is probably the best beginners site. It is hard to go into Buddhism because it really requires an abandonment of everything the West holds dear.
And I was born and raised in the West. I have no idea why my outlook is so Eastern.
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Re: Joss = Joe + Luck -- Wisewoman, 08:37:55 01/27/03 Mon
I can't give the reference because I don't remember where I read it, but apparently Joss's given name was Joe (Joseph, I guess) and he changed it to "Joss" himself because he thought it meant "luck."
;o)
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Re: Questions about Buddhism, Kundalin Yoga and Welcome -- shadowkat, 08:45:15 01/27/03 Mon
Hmmm...interesting. I will check it out. The conflict between the two perspectives has often been what makes it confusing for me, whenever I try to read Buddhism. (Was raised Catholic and in college examined mostly the Western religions and the development of the Western Perspective, so knowledge of the Eastern perspective is limited to a little yoga, some books here and there on Tao, Zen, Confuscious, and some myth books - all of which are written sort of the way Btvs is - from a Western perspective.)
From what I know about the creation of ATS - it may not be Joss Whedon who is responsible for the Eastern perspective.
(Although it's possible he is - Whedon's mother lived on a writer/artist commune that practiced the more Eastern views of thought - while his father lived in Hollywood and wrote for Leave it To Beaver. Whedon's parents were divorced when he was young and he spent summers with his mother on the commune, she was an unpublished novelist - a fact that Whedon always regretted because he believed her to be very talented. The idea for Buffy - he shared and to a small degree developed with his mother, who died before it was realized. - This he said in several interviews including the NY Times and SFX)
While the show was co-created by David Greenwalt - the one person who had the greatest influence over it in the last three years was Tim Minear, who is also one of the minds behind Firefly, which, and I can't be certain of this, may have been a melding of Western and Eastern views and may be why it didn't work - too far above the heads of the network and the popular viewer. If you watched Firefly - the language was a melding of Chinese and English, and the big Alliance was one between China and America.)
Also the Eastern perspective of ATS may explain why it hasn't taken off in the ratings or done as well across the board as Buffy...both shows are after all aired mainly in the West so most Neilsen viewers probably tend to see things from a Western perspective. Which in some ways makes ATS even more interesting and experimental. I'm praying it will make it to Season 5 and the networks don't give up on it.
Please post Angel as a Bodhisattva - we get so many posts on Btvs - it would be nice to get more on Angel, particularly this week when we have a new Angel and not a new Buffy. I'd love to see your post.
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Re: Questions about Buddhism, Kundalin Yoga and Welcome -- lunasea, 09:16:43 01/27/03 Mon
If I had to pick one writer that had Eastern leanings it would definitely be Tim. His scripts scream with it, once you know what you are hearing. Hollywood is full of us. As Lucas says "Everyone is Marin County is a Buddhist."
When you read Buddhism, it helps to try and let down all preconceived notions. When we read, we go into judgement mode as we are reading, deciding whether we agree with something or not. Buddhism is about dropping this mode altogether, so if you go in with it, you won't understand what it is saying.
That is what got me into it. I was tired of placing my own evaluations on everything I read and finding out later that someone didn't say what I thought they did. When I read my first Buddhist book, I was only reading it to understand it, not to see if I agreed with it. Now I do that with everything and a whole new world has opened to me.
I love AtS dearly, but I am not sure if I want it to go another season. After this season, he shouldn't have anything left to do. He should Shanshu by killing the demon within himself. I will wear my DVDs out. Same thing with BtVS. I will look forward to whatever new projects Marti, Jane, Tim, Mere, Steven and Joss pick up.
As for Greenwalt, I can't wait for tonight. What an amazing premise. Angel said something in "Long Day's Journey" that really made me identify with him. He doesn't believe that anyone is looking down on him. As an audience member who sees the active role the PTB have played in his life, all the way back in "Becoming," it is hard to see that Angel doesn't see this.
I can look at my life and if I wanted to see that I am being guided alone some path. I was even going to write a book at one time called God's Grace: One Woman's Spiritual Journey. Thing is by the time I got a few chapters in, I was an atheist. I didn't think a book about the importance of spirituality written by an atheist would do well. I still believe that spirituality is very important, even though I don't believe in a soul. (a Buddhist tenet)
I don't intellectually understand what Angel believes, but I feel it. Out of everything that happened in that amazing episode, it is that line I keep coming back to. It was like when he saved Kate in "Epiphany."
I think it goes to something Marti said in an interview
"Buffy's calling is to serve mankind, and it connects her to a greater good, and I know I struggle to feel connected to something, and connected to something larger than our daily existence, and Buffy's plugged into it. And I think the idea of destiny and serving God in a way, and Joss, by the way, is a rabid atheist, but his work is full of yearning for belief. And I think the show speaks to people who also have that yearning. I mean, the whole show in a way, the whole show ping pongs between the darkest night of the soul and this whole yearning for belief.
I think that he does feel like it's sort of a meaningless void, and what matters is the struggle to find the good. And the relationships you build with people while you struggle. And in some ways you'll never find it, but the quest and the questors, and the people that you find, who are not necessarily your family, are the only thing that lends the journey meaning. I think that is his major theme."
I see this with the characters of Buffy the Chosen One and Angel a Chosen One of another sort and definitely on BtVS, but AtS seems to go beyond this in "Epiphany."
Miracles is going to be amazing, but I can't see it flying on network TV. Maybe Fox will pick it up. It has a lot of the writers from X-files on it.
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Re: Miracles O/T -- Wisewoman, 11:26:42 01/27/03 Mon
Miracles is going to be amazing, but I can't see it flying on network TV. Maybe Fox will pick it up. It has a lot of the writers from X-files on it.
Really? The amazing part is good news. I'm going to watch the premiere episode this evening, but I was worried it was gonna be Touched by An Angel II, lol.
;o) dub
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Kundalini site(s)..... -- Briar Rose, 19:21:36 01/28/03 Tue
Everything you ever wanted to know about Kundalini Yoga is at:
http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/
However, in the interest of balanced reporting, you also might want to read:
http://www.hmt.com/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html
and Kensai's site at:
http://pub12.ezboard.com/bthecave94643
as well as search for "Kundalini Yoga" + warnings.
It appears that many people have had "Kundalini backlash" and there are more sites about THAT than actual info on Kundalini yoga itself.....
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A quick geography for you shadowkat -- Caroline, 07:00:05 01/28/03 Tue
Buddhism kinda grew out of Hinduism in India, and later spread all over south as well as east Asia. There are 2 great traditions in buddhism - mahayana and hinayana - the greater and lesser path. Basically, the mahayana believe that the purpose of enlightenment is for the benefit of all sentient beings and the hinayana believes that the purpose of enlightenment is for the benefit of the 'self'. The mahayana practice incorporates the hinayana because you need to achieve enlightenment for the self in order to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings.
In the Mahayana tradition, the major ones I am familiar with are the tibetan, chan (Chinese) and zen buddhist practices. Each of the traditions has lineages within them. In the zen buddhist tradition, the rinzai is one of the more strict (I would even say militaristic) tradition in terms of the life and practices. I had the opportunity to stay for a week at a rinzai monastery in the Catskills a while back - it was very different to my experiences in a more tibetan influenced environment (which is the mahayana buddhism I have most knowledge about).
Yoga is a practice that all traditions of buddhism teach. If I remember correctly, yoga comes from the sanskrit word yugg which means one or unity. The purpose of yoga is to unify the body and the mind. This is done by controlling the mind and the body, more specifically the 'winds' in tibetan. There are many different types of yoga - you might see references to the eight limbs of yoga. Kundalini yoga has very specific physical and mental practices designed to balance the energies in the body and thus achieve enlightenment. The winds or energies or life-force are also called qi in chinese and ki in Japanese and prana/apana in hindi are used in all the mahayana traditions that I am familiar with. The winds are associated with the chakras, which are energy centers of the body and there are seven in all - from the root chakra to the crown chakra.
In my experience, my friends in the tibetan and zen traditions do not perform the physical practice of yoga - known as hatha yoga, one of the eight limbs of yoga in the hinduism. But they do perform other yoga practices - more particularly the mental and behavioural ones. Doing a daily practice is challenging and rewarding - one realizes how the blockages of the mind are apparent in the body, the importance of the breath in releasing these blockages, how the body is merely a tool or vehicle for the mind. Combined with a meditation practice, it's the only thing that keeps me sane.
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Re: A quick geography for you shadowkat -- lunasea, 07:55:29 01/28/03 Tue
Just 2 correction, Hinduism comes after Buddhism. They both come from Brahamism.
The other is don't use the word Hinayana. It is considered an insult, especially by the practitioners of it (and often meant that way by the Kagyu and Gelugpa schools). It literally means small vehicle. The only known school of it left is Theravada and that is the term that they prefer. I started with Theravada before switching to Zen. At the time, I didn't understand Master Lin-Chi's methods and they were off-putting. My favorite Buddhist site is Theravadin.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/
It contains some amazing books. Free is always a good thing and it goes beyond Buddhism 101. One of my favorite books is "The Wings to Awakening." They have some amazing articles there.
Also Zen and Chan are pretty much the same. Zen is the Japanese pronouncitation of Chan. Rinzai is actually the Chinese patriarch Lin-Chi.
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Re: response to lunasea -- Caroline, 08:14:37 01/28/03 Tue
Sorry, no offense meant - I'm much more deeply involved in the tibetan tradition and in that tradition using the term hinayana is not a pejorative term - in fact one of the downfalls of a bodisattva practice is belittling the hinayana. As for the chan buddhists I know - they tend to distinguish themselves just as much from the zen as the tibetan traditions, with their own lineages and practices etc.
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O/T Question for Lunasea -- dub ;o), 08:44:33 01/29/03 Wed
Just 2 correction, Hinduism comes after Buddhism...The other is don't use the word Hinayana.
I just have to ask, are you now or have you ever been a public school teacher?
Just curious...
;o)
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Nope -- lunasea, 11:31:52 01/29/03 Wed
Was raised with them. My grandmother was one (she's retired). Most of my aunts and uncles are and my husband's father and aunts are.
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Thank you for this Caroline. -- s'kat, 19:21:33 01/28/03 Tue
I appreciate the explanation - your explanation and Age's really cleared up a lot of things for me. It's what I thought was going on, but for some reason wasn't connecting. And I felt really dumb asking when everyone else seemed to get it, so thank for not making me feel like a fool - it sounds like you have come to a sort of enlightenment yourself and would make an excellent teacher. (Hope that made sense words can be so limiting at times.)
Doing a daily practice is challenging and rewarding - one realizes how the blockages of the mind are apparent in the body, the importance of the breath in releasing these blockages, how the body is merely a tool or vehicle for the mind. Combined with a meditation practice, it's the only thing that keeps me sane.
What type of yoga would you suggest
for a beginner - I've done some in the past: Hatha (almost did in my back), don't really know the names, also practiced some Tai Chi in school. But what you suggested sounds rewarding and like something I could really use right now ;-)
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Re: Thank you for this Caroline. -- Caroline, 20:27:46 01/28/03 Tue
I would see what hatha yoga schools are around you and try them until you find something that suits you. Don't be intimidated by the names - Iyengar, Bikram, Ashtanga, Kripalu etc. Just go along and try. (I personally do not enjoy Bikram - the heated room is too much and the same postures are repeated in every class - a bit boring) It's important to find teachers you click with and a style that you are comfortable with. A lot of schools will let you drop in for a class to see how you go. And don't be intimidated by the stages others are at - yoga is about you, you're not competing with anyone else. A friend of mine could not touch her toes but after 3 months of classes finally got there and it was a personal victory for her. Yoga will expose your weaknesses but it will also help you strengthen them by paying attention to those weaknesses.
Once you've done some hatha and gained awareness of the forgotten parts of your body (and mind), I would then recommend some pranayama classes or meditation classes. Pranayama is a breathing meditation that is one of eight limbs of yoga in the hindu tradition. Also, many buddhist centers give meditation instruction for free or a nominal fee and many have group meditation for a small donation. If I remember correctly, you live in the New York area - I think every style of yoga and tradition of buddhism has some school there so you should be spoiled for choices.
I also am getting into qi gong, which is a moving meditation practice like tai chi, which I am really enjoying. I've studied five element theory and have found that there is an underlying theoretical unity to all of these practices I have mentioned, particularly in terms of the energy/element theory.
Thank you very much for your kind words. I am looking into doing some yoga teacher training and setting up my own shiatsu practice, thus liberating myself from the grind of office work. Hopefully, I will be in a position to make the change later this year.
You have a great deal of insight and intelligence - there is no reason why you couldn't gain a great deal of knowledge and self-knowledge if you applied yourself to this area as you have to many others (as we see in your many wonderful posts).
PS - A back injury drove me to yoga originally - sometimes the bad things that happen to us can turn out to be absolutely wonderful!
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Kant, Sartre, and the Night Sky -- manwitch, 04:21:33 01/28/03 Tue
I think you are more sophisticated than Kant.
I personally don't share Kant's need to have God or Reward in order to do the right thing.
In that sense I think you and me both are a little more Sartrean.
But I also agree with you that I don't feel the inability to prove the existence of Yahweh or Christ means that I have no association with the divine consciousness. So I guess we leave Sartre behind, too.
Look at the night sky and say, "i'm the consciousness that came out of that." If you don't feel part of something larger, I don't know what to say. It seems like the spirituality of the East has been doing this for a long time, thousands of years literally. Its sometimes kind of a wonder in and of itself to see Western thinkers struggling so hard with it.
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inner vs outer -- frisby, 05:23:16 01/28/03 Tue
Kant elevated the dignity of the moral law within over the marvel of the cosmic law without; following Plato "soul" is first in dignity over the world. In essence this reduces to the fundamental antinomy between the good and the true. Practically, it comes to whether we understand human nature in the light of nature, or realize that our understandings of nature follow from human nature.
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Re: Kant, Sartre, and the Night Sky -- lunasea, 08:05:55 01/28/03 Tue
Look at the night sky and say, "i'm the consciousness that came out of that." If you don't feel part of something larger, I don't know what to say. It seems like the spirituality of the East has been doing this for a long time, thousands of years literally. Its sometimes kind of a wonder in and of itself to see Western thinkers struggling so hard with it.
Maybe that is what attracted me to Buddhism and Eastern thought. When I was a Catholic, I was heavily into mysticism and was more Gnostic than anything that could be considered fundamentalist.
Most schools of thought seem to stop before they get to the "end." It is like with Dr. Jung. His theories are what allowed me to explain myself. They got me to a very interesting place, to Sophia herself, but that is as far as I could go.
Look how Dr. Jung built his house. He saw this as a healthy thing to do. I saw it is indicative of his mental imbalance. He saw that as inevitable. My own experience did not support this.
Kant, Satre, all of them. They built a raft to get across the stream, but they started to see the raft as the goal and not the means. Then they couldn't abandon it when it no longer served them. A lot of philosophers do that. They love wisdom, but they love their own ideas more.
I don't feel part of something larger. I AM something larger. How many schools of thought go that far?
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Re: Something Else Entirely, Part 2 -- Maribeth Martell, 10:43:56 01/28/03 Tue
I really appreciated your detailed analysis of each season, but I think there is more to the 6th season than you have said.
At the end of season five Buffy dies to childhood, with the loss of her Mother and entering the adult age of 21 Buffy must leave childhood behind and enter the adult world (allowing her sister to remain behind as the child).
Beginning and thru out season 6 is Buffy forced to face adult responsibility, she tried to force it onto Giles, so he leaves her, forcing her to stand on her own. Buffy must get a lousy job, and deal with mundain problems (those nerds all represent the petty annoyances which are adult life). She wants to escape, finding escapism in different ways, but she keeps coming back to her responsibilies.
I think season 7 will see her embracing herself as an adult being. You can already see her finding work she can enjoy, willing to take the leadership role, becoming a strong independent adult.
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KABOOM! And a nomination for 'Quote of the YEAR' -- Wisewoman, 22:27:53 01/25/03 Sat
We are all Buffy, but haven't recognized it yet.
Well done, manwitch.
;o) dub
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Nomination for 'Quote of the YEAR' (2nd that!) (and here's the $64,000 question) -- frisby, 06:53:59 01/26/03 Sun
I heartily agree! Very good quote! And very good post! Now, the $64,000 question -- did Joss model the 7 chakras or are the (strong) associations simply synchronistic or is it that the content calls for a match up?
Again -- very very good -- I learned from it (and that's the highest praise I now of)
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Re: Nomination for 'Quote of the YEAR' (2nd that!) (and here's the $64,000 question) -- luna, 07:04:02 01/26/03 Sun
I'd go with "the content called it up," since it's unclear that ME knew at the beginning that there would be exactly severn seasons. But that makes Manwitch's analysis an even better fit, because of the unplanned archtypal nature of it--that if you start with a character like Buffy (the essential hero, and also each of us as mw says), this IS the journey that must be taken.
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a $64,000 question of detail -- manwitch, 08:49:32 01/26/03 Sun
Wow. I have only been away from the board for a few hours really. I posted this last night, cleaned the kitchen, and went to bed.
I came back this morning expecting to have my suspicions confirmed that no one in their right mind would read a two-billion word post. I confess that it is a real joy to receive a response, but its something else entirely to have these kinds of responses. They are deeply appreciated.
But frisby's $64,000 question, as well as Sophist's point about the Crusades, bring home to me the issue of detail. Where is the line between making the allusion and filling out the story. How detailed does the allusion have to be before you have it figured out?
I don't know that there is an answer to this, and to a degree, I come back continually to the idea that maybe none of this is there at all, and the true marvel is how the mind can spin webs of connection. I have never practiced kundalini (except for Tuesday nights from 8-9), and I am sure a real student of the subject could find many errors and holes, of greater and lesser detail, in what I have presented. Would that mean it wasn't there? Does it matter what's really there if I see it anyway?
My personal opinion, in direct answer to the $64,000 question, is that I think this kundalini vision took shape very rapidly, possibly during the beginnings of season two. If the show got canceled, so be it. They don't make them all. But I think it was Caroline who referenced an SMG interview in which Sarah said she was told in season three that she was gonna die at the end of season five. So he already knew when she was going to behold the beatific image. And its interesting to me that her contract ends when this metaphor would end.
What I find marvelous is how they are able to maintain it, even while actors choose to leave or get their own shows, or grow too old. They find a way to maintain it even though they have limited control.
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Re: Buffy Bash 2003 -- dub ;o), 09:05:49 01/26/03 Sun
I hope you're one of the people who has told Lady Starlight they intend to attend the Buffy Bash in Vancouver in June. I think we could have a fascinating group session based on an extended investigation and discussion of the ideas you raise in this post, manwitch.
;o)
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speaking of which...(shoutout to ladystarlight) -- anom, 12:32:03 01/26/03 Sun
"I think we could have a fascinating group session based on an extended investigation and discussion of the ideas you raise in this post, manwitch."
Absolutely! It also makes me wonder (LadyStarlight, you getting this?) what plans there are for programming at the bash--beyond the room w/ the large-screen TV. Like, say, in addition to dub's suggestion...discussions of the episode & character analyses; philosophy (of course), theology, and magic; metaphor & symbolism; an OMWF (& Dedalus' OMIC?) singalong & Buffy filksong marathon; costume party (dressing as Buffyverse characters or as our posting names?); possibly guests associated w/the shows? Or we could just hang, that's good too.... Hell, this group would probably end up doing most of the above even without scheduled times & spaces.
How much do we want this event to be programmed & how much do we want it to be freeform? I'm thinkin' the answer probably deserves its own thread, even though the opening for the question came in this one.
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Hmmm had a similar response, but I still think you post works -- shadowkat, 10:47:30 01/26/03 Sun
Where is the line between making the allusion and filling out the story. How detailed does the allusion have to be before you have it figured out?
I don't know that there is an answer to this, and to a degree, I come back continually to the idea that maybe none of this is there at all, and the true marvel is how the mind can spin webs of connection. I have never practiced kundalini (except for Tuesday nights from 8-9), and I am sure a real student of the subject could find many errors and holes, of greater and lesser detail, in what I have presented. Would that mean it wasn't there? Does it matter what's really there if I see it anyway?
Had the same questions as I was reading this. A while back a friend I'd gotten interested in the series, asked me this same question. How do you know that you're on the same wavelength as the writers and not just projecting your own views on to the story and as result overestimating their abilities and getting disappointed? This friend hypothesised that the people on the boards were probably far more intelligent and well read than the people creating the tv show. Possibly true...the thought made me wonder if
I was indeed wasting my time writing and analyzing this series as much as I've done.
My answer, somewhat defensively, was: well I check to see if the metaphors are consistent throughout each episode and can be consistently interpreted in this way and I check with people on the internet to see if they see it too and then I check with the writers interviews ...etc and if that works than I figure same wavelength. Which I did mentally with your essay btw. I know 0 about yoga, but the explanation you give regarding Buffy consistently works in every episode, far more than other arc explanations I've seen. Heck it even works a little in Angel which I see often as a mirror series with the male anti-hero reflecting the female hero. When you watch the two series - you sort of need to separate them in your head yet place them next to each other at the same time as mirrors. Angel in his journey...could be said to be falling while Buffy is rising...taking the traditional path as opposed to the spiritual - don't know. I think Angel is more of a dark noir tragedy than a struggle to spiritually grow up.
Could be wrong there. Comparing the two - confuses me at times. ;-)
I think the six and seven chakras may be the hardest of the seven to convey on screen and the most ambitious. I also think Whedon may have decided to try these after he realized he'd have two more seasons. I'm not sure he'd call them chakras or see them in these terms however. But - that's not to say they aren't there. I think some concepts are universial ones conveyed in different words and metaphors in our languages and religions. The 7 chakras that exist in Buddhism - also exist elsewhere - 7 is after all considered a magic number in any number of spiritual disciplines and religions. Christianity also has a view of a spiritual journey and completeing a series of tasks. The myth of Cupid and Psyche - has psyche completing a series of tasks or overcoming obstacles to reach the spiritual plain, in the first she confronts her spirtual destiney by confronting the monster, gives into sexual desire - loses her lover, etc. So if the theme is universal is it such a huge leap that Whedon didn't subsconsiciously go there? After all he freely admits that while he's never read Campbell, he has carefully constructed a hero's journey to enlightenment. And Film buff that he is - most films and works of art attempt to convey this journey in some way.
They just use different words. Season 1 - the goal of confronting the fear, what your destiney is or maybe just the gang, the peers who wish you to conform to theirs and not seek your own path. Season 2 - sexual desire, temptation - the idea of moving past that, not letting desire overtake us, similar to the days of sex/drugs and rock and roll? Pleasure for pleasure's sake? Season 3 - serving others not just yourself. Not using your talents merely to get ahead. Rebellion against authority. Questioning your calling. The Authority tells you to get money, to be successful, to go for title, and often it serves itself - you move to serve others past the title, rebel? Graduate. Season 4 - in college we experiment, we look for who we are. In Season 4 and 5 we see Buffy still in college doing just this. One she opens her heart and discovers her own intitiative and two she discovers the spiritual world. In Season 6 - you've left college and are dealing with the mundane tedium of adulthood. The world is no longer fun like you thought. It's hell. But it's not - it can be beautiful, divine. It is what we make it. Season 7.....
So yes, I think you're theory works well with the idea of growing up. It says the same thing just uses another language to do so.
Great post. Really enjoyed it.
SK
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Re: Hmmm had a similar response, but I still think you post works -- Dochawk, 00:42:26 01/27/03 Mon
First off I want to add my congrats on an amazing series of posts. The opening quote that everyone has mentioned IS the reason I love Buffy more than any other television show I have ever watched (or any book I have ever read). I am not convinced though that Joss had this in mind when he developed the series. Somewhere Joss would have to have had a much better education in Buddhism then he seems to profess (remember Joss even states that he hasn't read Campbell). Now, I am not sure I believe what I am about to write, but I believe its an important consideration when we think about BtVS and its metaphors. Was Andrew giving us a metanarration when he talked about becoming an SIT as a metaphor for developing womenhood and then the Scoobies immediately dismissing it? Was Joss slyly tellign us that perhaps we are reading too much into his story? I am not sure, those of you who are much better at this type of interpetation will have to help me figure out the answer.
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Ummm he may not have read Campbell but he has been influenced by him.... -- Rufus, 01:42:47 01/27/03 Mon
Joss has said he has read "Regeneration through Violence" by Slotkin.....who just happens to have been influenced by Joseph Campbell. All you have to do is look in the index of Slotkins book.
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I think it works too. -- Arethusa, 07:36:05 01/27/03 Mon
(Not that I am better at interpretation, but....)
I do think Whedon was metanarrating with Andrew's quote, slyly poking fun at those who find a metaphor everywhere. ME did the same thing on AtS this week:
ANGEL: What did you mean before? The beast is going to turn out the sun? Is that some kind of metaphor?
MANNY: Sorry, I don't speak "college boy." I said what I meant.
But that doesn't mean Whedon isn't showing the spiritual growth of his main character, through the trials she overcomes on her path to self-knowledge (or enlightenment). It's a universal experience, whether it's called enlightenment or just growing up.
Wonderful posts; they're the only ones I've ever clipped and saved.
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Here's what someone else thinks about Whedon and the Hero's Journey model -- Arethusa, 09:17:11 01/27/03 Mon
Here
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Thanks for the link, two good quotes from it -- shadowkat, 10:29:31 01/27/03 Mon
Only a firm decision to stick to the model of the hero's journey, even through a protracted "dark night of the soul", can explain an artistic decision that's losing the audience. In a medium ruled by Nielsen ratings, the creative risk taken in deciding to stay with the model nonetheless is truly heroic.
Buffy's story is not, as far as I can tell, based on a specific Greek heroic
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There's a simpler answer -- Etrangere, 15:02:18 01/28/03 Tue
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter wether what we see in the show was, conciously or unconsciously, put there by the authors.
Art is not what the authors do. It's something that is born somewhere at the interraction between the creative process of the authors and the interpretating observation of the public.
Any kind of interpretation, when it's sound with what's on the show, whe it's a solid vision and argumentable on the basis of the elements are good and valuable.
Great piece of work, manwitch, amazing global vision of the show.
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Exactly right. Very well said. -- Sophist, 16:24:22 01/28/03 Tue
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The elusive allusion -- Sophist, 11:56:45 01/26/03 Sun
I actually felt bad after I posted my more-than-a-little pedantic comment about the Crusades. Kind of got diverted by the structure of the leaf and left out the forest.
Your original discussion of the Knights was in an aside, and the detail there hardly mattered to the post as a whole. Besides, I think your essential point about the Knights remains valid even after my historical obsessiveness has been satisfied.
As far as I'm concerned, you nailed the allusion.
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Re: a $64,000 question of detail (answer = prediction) -- frisby, 17:12:21 01/26/03 Sun
Again, great post. You raised the question of where to draw the line between having figured it out and merely making allusions. I think the standard answer today (at least in scholarly or scientific circles) is whether predictions can be made and verified. If you could push the allusion to encompass the 7th chakra and then predict how the season and series will match it, THEN, after the fact of course, we could say the line was drawn appropriately. Before the fact, the prediction of course must remain a matter of persuasion. How did you by the way arrive at this insight?
I agree that the true marvel is the connective webs our minds are able to spin (synchronistic associations and correspndences), but contrary to your personal opinion, mine leans towards luna in that the "content" is responsible for the linkage more so than an intentional decision on Joss's part -- although your points on SMG's contract ending after 7, and her revelation that Joss told her in season 3 about the finale of season 5, are compelling. I'd even really like to believe that Joss modelled his series arc on the yogic chakras, but without further evidence, I'll cast my vote for the content itself dictating it (but still, not a coincidence), a position which itself actually can be understood to be even superior to an intended act -- that is, that some sort of 'nature' was at work, that it was simply the nature of things themselves that led to both tending in the direction of that development.
As to whether it really does "matter" or not, I think it does, although Cipher in the Matrix thought not. And as to how they maintained it in the face of some coming and others going, well your "quote of the year" answers that:
"We are all Buffy, but haven't recognized it yet." But I also like the kicker at the end: "And so, through Buffy, have we all."
God, I love this show, and as much as I do, I still want it to end this season -- 7 seasons (or 144 episodes) seems just right! (Although "Buffy -- the Movie" would be nice too.)
Thanks again for a great post -- but then, by now, you know that!
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Re: a $64,000 question of detail -- lunasea, 19:01:17 01/26/03 Sun
I read anything the writers have to say. That is the main perspective I am interested in. I like seeing how they construct the arcs. Jane Espenson had a great article over at the Firefly Fox sight about how a script was written.
On another board, I wrote about how S6 was Buffy's Dark Night of the Soul. I analyzed every episode from S6 from this perspective, tied it back to what the Guide said in "Interventions" and what happened in "The Gift," and made some predictions about this season. Talk about in depth analysis (of course that was before I found this place).
I figured that I had, as I tend to do with everything, over-analyzed it and put to much on what the writers intended. Then my adorable Hubby found an interview with Marti that I missed (not quite sure how I missed one). She actually called S6 Buffy "Dark Night of the Soul."
I had actually got it right!!! From that point on, I gave myself permission to think that the writers actually meant some of this stuff. An interview with Joss is like hearing the Buddha speak. He does have his act that together. Only someone who has gone through the 7 Chakras could write this show. Only someone who had been through their own Dark Night could come up with the arcs for btVS and AtS.
The metaphors are universal, but you can only write them if you have experienced them.
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kaboom manwitch and a few comments... -- Caroline, 09:40:30 01/27/03 Mon
Manwitch, I'm blown away by your series of posts, although not at all blown away by your capacity to actually write such posts.
I'd just like to make a couple of comments, one about the Knights of Byzantium and one about yoga.
I think the defeat of the Knights of Byzantium represents the lack of validity for psychological and spritual progress of a certain interpretation of Christianity. The defeat of the Knights of Byzantium is a defeat for a traditional interpretation of the passion of Christ that we see in fundamentalist and literalist strains of all the Christian churches. It really takes me back to Catholic school and the changes in doctrine that were apparent in our religion classes when the pre-Vatican 2 nuns were replaced by the post-Vatican 2. The more liberal post-Vatican view teachings were not the fire and brimstone of their predecessors. Christ's passion was OUR passion - we individually had to be reborn, to be transformed to become Christ-like. The Knights of Byzantium represented the old guard in terms of spirituality - they are an example of how Buffy's spirituality could become ossified into a strict doctrine. Instead, Buffy had to realize the Christ within her, not be separated from the Christ within by doctrine. This also underlines that she is the hero in her life, as we all are in ours.
I have been practicing yoga for the last 13 years (and I'm even considering doing some teacher training soon) as well as becoming more immersed in Buddhism as a result of my meditation practice. For a non-practitioner, you gave a really good summary of the seven chakras (there are debates raging in some circles that there is an 8th chakra). Hatha yoga (one of the eight limbs of yoga) is really just the physical and mental preparation for the meditative practice. The interesting thing about the chakras (and yoga) is that they are all about (imo) non-attachment (and believe me, when you're not letting go of something, you feel it in the body in a yoga pose). The problem comes for the individual when they remain attached to a particular energy. Many people in their spiritual practice can remain stuck at any of these stages (people especially seem to love the sexual stage - the sacred sex thing!). But Buffy has found ways to let go and move on. I remember reading an interview with Marti (I think) where she says that season 7 represents the end of Buffy's story and that the season finale had already been written by Joss and did not depend on SMG's contract status. That would seem to support a 7-year arc for BtVS. And it could mean that Buffy manages to reconcile the binary oppositions within, thus eliminating the need for any representation of her inner demons?
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Re: kaboom manwitch and a few comments... -- manwitch, 04:12:56 01/28/03 Tue
Thank you.
I think I was a little cowardly in my original suggestion that it took shape in season 2. I think this idea is deliberate, and I think its there from day one. I think this is the story Joss wanted to tell. Or at least the structure he wanted to use. There is certainly more going on season to season and episode to episode that what I touched on in this series of posts.
But it seems to me that you don't naturally come to associate the seasons with the elements in the way it appears was done. That is specifically Eastern, specifically these chakras. And you really can't make different associations. I've tried to argue with myself, well, there's fire in season 2, maybe an argument could be made to move the elements around. But it doesn't work. Season One is earth. Season two is water. Season Three is fire. Season Four is air. Season Five is Ether. Season Six is mind. Mixing them up doesn't work.
I very much like the idea that frisby suggests of a nature helping this content to unfold, and certainly nature played a hand in HOW it unfolded. But I think I think nature was given this structure to grow on. My imagination is too limited to allow me to think its accidental.
Although, I am, oddly enough, willing to accept that I might be imagining the whole thing.
Oh well.
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And while I'm here, what about that seventh Chakra? (Buffy and Angel spoilers ahead!) -- cjl, 23:05:17 01/25/03 Sat
In the Dawn thread below, darrenK provides insights that support your assertions about the progress of the series and our arrival at the seventh chakra, the obliteration of self and the trascending of the world of forms.
Take it away, darrenK: "It's probably worth mentioning that [Xander's] declaration comes after she selflessly and egolessly 'gives' Amanda, a Potential, her power. I think the selflessness part is really important. So far this season we've had an episode named Selfless and at least two characters act in a way that the writers have gone out of their way to point out as selfless, selfless sacrifice. Xander's speech was a nice character moment, but it also really hung a big hat on Dawn's actions.
"It's obvious that someone wants us to notice the generosity that Dawn is capable of, the sacrifice she's capable of. It's also a major contrast with the puffed-up self-importance that having an army of groupies is giving Joan, er, I mean, Buffy."
Your post has given context to something that everybody on the board has been noticing this year: the need for Buffy and the gang to balance and/or reconcile opposites (Demon/Human, Order/Chaos, Good/Evil) to transcend the world of forms and arrive at a higher understanding of the universe. And this might actually carry over to ANGEL, as well. "Supersymmetry" explores superstring theory and the holy grail of the Unified Theory of Physics, attempts to transcend the seeming contradictions in the basic laws of the Universe. And now that it looks like Mr. Leather Pants is coming back, I can only marvel at the symmetry between the two series as well: what better time than Buffy season 7 to resolve the seeming duality between Angel and Angelus?
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Re: And while I'm here, what about that seventh Chakra? (Buffy and Angel spoilers ahead!) -- Rufus, 23:13:57 01/25/03 Sat
Your post has given context to something that everybody on the board has been noticing this year: the need for Buffy and the gang to balance and/or reconcile opposites (Demon/Human, Order/Chaos, Good/Evil) to transcend the world of forms and arrive at a higher understanding of the universe. And this might actually carry over to ANGEL, as well. "Supersymmetry" explores superstring theory and the holy grail of the Unified Theory of Physics, attempts to transcend the seeming contradictions in the basic laws of the Universe. And now that it looks like Mr. Leather Pants is coming back, I can only marvel at the symmetry between the two series as well: what better time than Buffy season 7 to resolve the seeming duality between Angel and Angelus?
Of course I said it in my post about order and potential...
Order...spoilers for Potential
Might want to pay attention to what Dawn said about it not being her power.....so what is?
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Oohh, maybe the speeches are meant to be boring! -- Sara, who has been given new hope regarding S7, 09:26:42 01/26/03 Sun
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The Rise and Fall (and Rise?) of Field Marshall von Buffy (spoilers and spec) -- cjl, 22:07:14 01/26/03 Sun
Of course they're meant to be boring.
Well, maybe not boring--but cliched, overblown, and generally full of hot air. This isn't a new observation, but in Potential, every time Buffy made one of her little speeches, about (a) vampires being animals, (b) trusting Slayer Instinct, and (c) pummeling demons for information, she either contradicted herself, or was contradicted by the action on the screen.
Her speech about vampires being animals is undercut by her concern for Spike; her lecture about relying on Slayer instinct is made laughable by Dawn's quick thinking in keeping the vampire at bay and toasting the Bringers; and meeting Clem at Willy's (is it still "Willy's"?) took the piss out of her lecture about demon pummeling.
Field Marshall von Buffy keeps trying to put everything in absolutes (good/evil, demon/human, etc., etc.), but she's reacting to the extremity of the battle with the First Evil, and losing sight of the ambiguities she learned over the first six seasons. I think this is exactly what the First Evil wants.
Her main hope in freeing herself from this mindset is her compassion for Spike, which goes against all her instincts as a Slayer, but engages the most selfless, noble aspects of her humanity (yep--chakra seven). I get the feeling that this, too, is part of the First Evil's plan--manipulating Buffy into fully equating her humanity with Spike's...
But I can't see the endgame.
(Or maybe I do, but I dread actually saying it.)
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Re: The Rise and Fall (and Rise?) of Field Marshall von Buffy (spoilers and spec) -- Peggin, 03:28:06 01/27/03 Mon
Field Marshall von Buffy keeps trying to put everything in absolutes (good/evil, demon/human, etc., etc.), but she's reacting to the extremity of the battle with the First Evil, and losing sight of the ambiguities she learned over the first six seasons. I think this is exactly what the First Evil wants.
I don't think this is about Buffy losing sight of those things. IMO, she's teaching the Potential's exactly what they need to know in order to stay alive. She doesn't want to put the Potentials' lives in danger by having them start out with the idea that, "Gee, this vampire might turn out to be a good guy -- maybe I shouldn't stake him." Buffy knows of exactly one vampire in the history of the world who has ever switched sides voluntarily. Making this an issue for the Potentials, making a point of the fact that it's even a remote possibility that any given vampire could turn out to be a good guy, is only going to get them killed, and fast.
Look at Spike himself. As totally in love with Spike as I am now, and even knowing all that Spike has gone through and how much he has changed, if I could go back to any point in time from School Hard until Spike got chipped, I would still advise Buffy to stake him. There are even a number of times after he got the chip (in particular after Buffy found out he was working with Adam and after Out of My Mind), when I think she should have staked him regardless of the chip. I'm glad she didn't, because I love Spike and I'm very happy he's still around, but even knowing that Spike was someday going to switch sides would not change my advice to Buffy regarding how she ought to treat him at any point before he went out and got a soul.
Look at it this way -- if you were in charge of Army boot camp, and you had personal experience of seeing exactly one enemy soldier wave a white flag and ask to join your side, would you bring that up to the new recruits you were just training? When they go into battle, do you want them hesitating before they pull the trigger, just in case the other guy might not really be the enemy and wants to join your team?
IMO, the Slayer (and the Potentials) should treat any individual soldier they see wearing the enemy uniform -- in other words, every vampire -- as something to be killed. If they see a vampire switching sides, their attitude should only change with regards to that individual vampire, but their opinions about vampires in general should not change (well, not unless they see this kind of thing happening all the time, but that's not really an issue in this case).
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Re: The Rise and Fall (and Rise?) of Field Marshall von Buffy (spoilers and spec) -- lunasea, 05:38:57 01/27/03 Mon
I agree. At first I thought we had finally found a note that SMG couldn't hit. Her speeches in S5 were much better. The main difference is how they are delivered. This season she is a poor imitation of Patton. There is no heart behind her speeches, no vulnerability. That isn't the Buffy I love.
But that is what is supposed to happen. S4 AtS and S7 BtVS are running parallel. Not parallel plots, but parallel in every other way. Buffy's nature is given in "Intervention." S5 and 6 rest on what The Spirit Guide in the form of the First Slayer tells her.
"Love is pain, and the Slayer forges strength from pain. Love ... give ... forgive. Risk the pain. It is your nature. Love will bring you to your gift."
If you keep that in mind, you won't fall for any of the misdirects, like Field Marshall von Buffy.
What does the First want? Buffy not to live according to this nature. What did it want S3? Buffy to hate Angel. Like he could have killed her. If he tried and Buffy would have killed and hated him. Self-immolation and going evil again would have accomplished the same thing, Buffy would have turned from her nature.
Same thing with Spike and Dawn is just a pest. If Dawn doesn't trust her (even though she died so that Dawn could live), it will make loving, giving and forgiving that much harder.
When did the First go away S3, when Buffy allowed herself to love Angel, to help him and to forgive him. Right now Buffy isn't being her nature. When Buffy started being that way with Spike, the First had him captured. The Ubervamp really did a number on her.
And the best part is that most of the audience fell for it. They think that less than halfway in Buffy has figured everything out and now we just get to watch her be large and in charge. They blame the bad speeches on the writers.
I don't know what is more amusing, analyzing the show myself or seeing how ME takes people down the wrong path.
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That's it. That's the First Evil's Plan. Of course, it's so obvious.... -- cjl, 07:20:26 01/27/03 Mon
Well done, lunasea. I think I just had a Giles moment.
Look at the top of this thread, at manwitch's essay. What is it all about, what's the series all about? It's about Buffy's spiritual journey.
"Love is pain, and the Slayer forges strength from pain. Love ... give ... forgive. Risk the pain. It is your nature. Love will bring you to your gift."
The First Evil's plan is to manipulate Buffy so that she strays from her path, betrays her nature in order to triumph over an immediate threat. She hardens herself, chooses a role as Leader of (Wo)men, a wielder of power, rather than a warrior for light who defends her friends and family out of a pure and selfless love.
If Buffy stays on this track, continues to work against her own nature, the tableau we saw in the last few minutes of Lessons would literally come to pass: she would become the perfect vessel for the First Evil to manifest itself in the physical world. I have no doubt that's the FE's ultimate plan.
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Re: That's it. That's the First Evil's Plan. Of course, it's so obvious.... -- lunasea, 10:04:52 01/27/03 Mon
If Buffy stays on this track, continues to work against her own nature, the tableau we saw in the last few minutes of Lessons would literally come to pass: she would become the perfect vessel for the First Evil to manifest itself in the physical world. I have no doubt that's the FE's ultimate plan.
But It is through with the mortal coil. It doesn't want to manifest Itself in the physical world. It has bigger fish to fry, namely the Powers that Be.
The Apocalypse is supposed to be the ULTIMATE battle between good and evil. We have had a couple of world/dimension ending scenarios, but other than Glory, other dimensions weren't involved. I doubt Pylea would have ended if the Master, the Mayor or Adam won? Angelus may have sucked our dimension into Hell, but there are plenty of other dimensions. Same with Willow.
This is bigger than any of them. The First wants an end to the mortal coil. That is not only our world, but demons as well. They are also part of the mortal coil.
The mystical forces around the Slayer are a link between the PTB and the Slayers. A link runs both ways. The First can use this to get at the PTB.
How pathetic that the Source of all Evil wants to kill some chicks and create a demon play ground. Get real. It wants at the big guys. THAT is an apocalypse, one that is worthy of both our Champions and the Uber Witch.
That is an ending worthy of Joss.
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Two approaches, same destination (spoiler spec for S7 ending) -- cjl, 10:51:31 01/27/03 Mon
I disagree--not with your conclusion, but in your analysis of the FE's approach to bringing on the Apocalypse. IMO, in order for the First Evil to actually destroy the physical plane, it needs to manifest on the physical plane. Otherwise, it wouldn't be trying to mess with Buffy and the Earthly dimension to begin with.
"The mystical forces around the Slayer are a link between the PTB and the Slayers. A link runs both ways. The First can use this to get at the PTB."
Exactly. The First Evil is clearly manipulating Buffy away from her spiritual path, preparing her to be the vessel for its physical incarnation. (It is, perhaps, the inverse to Spike's journey in S6, when Lurky subjected him to the trials, preparing his physical being for the reintroduction of his soul.) If the First Evil's plan succeeds, and Buffy becomes its physical incarnation, its avatar on Earth, the link between the Slayers and the PTB is short-circuited, and either: a) the First Evil, reborn into the world, will have the power to destroy all creation, or b) even worse--the very act of the First Evil entering our world negates all creation.
Back to manwitch and Sartre again. We all have the fate of the Earth in our hands with every decision we make. Untold universes are born and die with each choice. Buffy (and by association, each of us) hold the power to be the Messiah or the anti-Christ.
How can the ending NOT reflect this?
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Re: Two approaches, same destination (spoiler spec for S7 ending) -- lunasea, 13:35:58 01/27/03 Mon
IMO, in order for the First Evil to actually destroy the physical plane, it needs to manifest on the physical plane. Otherwise, it wouldn't be trying to mess with Buffy and the Earthly dimension to begin with.
I can lob bombs at another country without being there. It doesn't need to manifest on the physical plane, just destroy that which supports it.
Angel needs to learn where he comes from and Buffy needs to learn where this dimension comes from. They have switched focii. BtVS was about the process of individuation and moving up the chakras. AtS's focus was more about the world itself. (BtVS is the what and AtS is the why) Now they switch. As Buffy moves up to the 7th Chakra, the focus is no longer in the world of form. She has gone beyond individuation. She now needs to know why, not just what.
Before we can get into how the First will destroy the mortal coil, we have to get into what it is a metaphor for. Per AtS, evil is all around us. How will the First manifesting here destroy anything?
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The First Evil, Metaphor and Potential -- cjl, 15:13:35 01/27/03 Mon
At the moment, the First Evil is unable to manifest itself physically on this plane: it depends on the actions of minions to work its plans and employs psychological terror to drain its opponents of hope. I agree--it is a threat from beyond the world of forms. The First Evil is the embodiment of the POTENTIAL for evil in every one of us.
I think we're both circling around the same concept, but I'm simply stating it badly. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, all of us on the board have noticed the need for Buffy to either balance or--more to the point--transcend the dualities that have been the bane of her existence. Somewhere beyond the dichotomies we've encountered on the series, there is the space between, the Unrealized Form, the Potential to manifest one way or the other.
If manwitch's is right and Joss really does love his Sartre, the entire series will come down to a single action (or non-action), a single choice, with Buffy as the Prime Mover. If she continues on her present path, treating power as an end in itself, if she doesn't listen to what her heart, spirit and soul (Xander, Willow, Dawn[?]) tell her is right, then the Potential for destruction that is the First Evil will be realized in our world. Buffy spiritual journey will end in disaster--metaphorically, the end of everything.
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Re: The First Evil, Metaphor and Potential -- Peggin, 15:56:17 01/27/03 Mon
Okay, I think I'm missing something. I've seen quite a few comments to the effect that Buffy is on some kind of power trip, and it's obviously just going completely over my head. I don't see her going all power trippy. I see her letting a whole bunch of strangers live in her house. I see her teaching others to use their own power in order to keep themselves alive and in order to fight evil. How does any of this point towards Buffy treating power as an end in itself?
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Re: The First Evil, Metaphor and Potential -- lunasea, 18:20:08 01/27/03 Mon
Joss won't end it in disaster any more than Buffy committed suicide S5 in a fit of dispair.
BUT, the key is in "Lessons." Every season premier follows the same pattern. It encapsulates the entire arc of Buffy for that season AND the last line/scene is a misdirect, completely opposite of how the season ends.
We have been hearing so much about Power, that the net is going rah-rah Buffy. You go girl. Rally up the troops.
Silly people. The last line the First says while in Buffy's form no less is, "It's about Power."
Guess what? It isn't. Buffy's moment of truth will come in a moment of surrender. Back to the Prayer of St. Francis. "Lord, make me an instrument of your peace."
There is the season finale. Buffy will become the ultimate instrument of peace in some total surrender to something (such as the PTB or love).
Don't worry about Buffy. ME sets up these divergances from their true nature (both in Buffy and with Angelus) in order to make that moment when they "become" that much more powerful. As ASH said, they are going back to S2.
Now if we could just get to the moment where David crosses over. I suck at patience.
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Not worried. Buffy is a HERO, for crying out loud. She'll make the right choices. Eventually. -- cjl, 21:19:59 01/27/03 Mon
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Re: The Rise and Fall of Field Marshall von Angel (spoilers and spec) -- Darby, 06:11:26 01/27/03 Mon
Does anyone doubt that Angel's speech in Long Day's Journey, inept and pessimistic but heartfelt, was done purposely as a poke at Buffy's speeches?
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Wow. Just... Wow. -- Peggin, 03:49:42 01/26/03 Sun
So very insightful. I've told more than one person that if they watch BtVS the same way they would watch The Sopranos or 24, and if all they are seeing are the literal events that happen on the screen, then they are missing 99% of the story. You've just confirmed that for me. You've also made me realize that I've probably only been seeing half the story myself.
I've always felt like Joss was creating a modern mythology. Other shows that deal with myth generally seem to use the elements of pre-existing myths in some way -- either for humor or to strip them down to their most literal form and therefore remove all meaning from them. Joss, OTOH, has been dealing with the true essense of mythology -- he has been telling stories that explore and try to explain the world we live in, why we are here, and why we do the things we do. I guess I just never realized how closely his ideas tie in with the very specific teaching of Eastern Philosophy.
As others have said, KABOOM! This essay totally blows my mind.
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Chakras & Labyrinths -- Yoda, 16:04:13 01/26/03 Sun
Wonderful post Manwitch! I've thought ever since Lessons that Joss was using the HS basement as a metaphor for the Labyrinth that Buffy will travel this season.
The seven circuits of the classical Cretan Labyrinth pathway have also been associated with the seven primary chakras of the body.
The classical labryinth is made of seven circuits. The seven circuits represent the seven paths that lead to the center or source and then back out again transformed. The classical labyrinth has an association with Christianity. A cross is the starting & ending point used to construct this labyrinth.
The cross that Spike hugs & the cross that Buffy wears at the end of Beneath Me represents (among other things) the end of the journey as well as the beginning. He and Buffy both emerged at the end of Gave from a symbolic death & resurrection and are ready to embark on a new journey in which they will apply what they learned the first time round.
In Lessons, I believe that the seven apparations of the Big Bads (Buffy included) represent the 7 circuits of the labyrinth that Buffy will go through in her journey this season. As Buffy figures out the answers to each of these questions as represented by the demons she battles she will advance through the labyrith. I think that Buffy appears as the last apparition because the final battle will be when she confronts the Beast that Lies Beneath (which will represent her inner beast/dragon). The fact that she appears confident in this scene is a good sign that she emerges victorious and fully empowered.
Here is a good link to labyrinths. http://www.crystalinks.com/labyrinths.html
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Significance of the forms the FE takes (spoilers Season 7) -- shadowkat, 18:19:15 01/26/03 Sun
In Lessons, I believe that the seven apparations of the Big Bads (Buffy included) represent the 7 circuits of the labyrinth that Buffy will go through in her journey this season. As Buffy figures out the answers to each of these questions as represented by the demons she battles she will advance through the labyrith. I think that Buffy appears as the last apparition because the final battle will be when she confronts the Beast that Lies Beneath (which will represent her inner beast/dragon). The fact that she appears confident in this scene is a good sign that she emerges victorious and fully empowered.
I've been wondering about this for a while now...is the seventh path - the facing of ourselves? I keep wanting to reiterate that old wives tale I heard as a child, walk up the steps backwards at midnight and look in the mirror and you'll see the devil or evil.
The First Evil takes on the forms in Lessons of all the big Bads including Buffy - answering perhaps the question of why Spike's first reaction upon seeing the real Buffy and her question "Are you real" is laughter and his desire to back away from her and not be touched - he's probably been tormented by the FE representation of Buffy for months - as we see in the episodes where we actually enter his pov: Selfless, Sleeper, Never Leave Me, Showtime. And the First Evil's Buffy is one who is reminiscent in some ways of the Buffy in Season 6 and the Buffy this year in Selfless or even Lessons - It's about Power, I am the Law, You have to move on! I'll never come for you! You can never be good!
Yet the representation is also slightly off in a way - not quite right, like all the First' representations, including Spike and DRu.
Is the evil that Buffy has to face - the evil that lies inside herself? Her own inner beast? Just as in Angel - the evil Angel and the Gang have to face is the beast inside themselves? In Joyce's dream - she tells Buffy that evil is in all of us. And in Buffy's restless dreams in Restless - she is faced with the demon standing beside the man twice - once with Riley/Adam, and with herself - The PRimal/Buffy and finally with the three women in the desert - the voiceless primal first, the counselor Tara, and Buffy herself. So when she journeys through the labrynth and the seven chakras is the final evil she'll uncover her own?
Will Buffy be facing herself as the First Slayer/First Evil?
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Re: Something Else Entirely: another take on the Buffy Metaphor -- slain, 16:05:20 01/26/03 Sun
First of all, I'm really impressed; I've got to say this now, as otherwise I tend to forget. Also I'd recommend "What is this 'Buffy'?" as an alternative title, as it's certainly a phrase that'll stick in my mind. If you haven't got a website, I hope this will be put up at Existential Scoobies for posterity; as the board archives are fairly posterior, but still a little catacomby.
I think what you've got is a unified way of looking at Buffy's character, which also takes into account the metaphorical aspects of the show but doesn't get contradicted in the way that other ways of looking at the show can do. Yoga is about personal growth through others as well as through the self, so it works for the whole show, rather than just a season or two of it. Existentialism and the show part company a lot of the time, I found, because I think fundamentally they don't agree; existentialism focuses on the individual (no one can help you through your own existence being one of the soundbites), but that's rarely the message of the show. Rather I think the yogic concept of unity with others is much more valid, especially if we think of Buffy as a metaphor for the human condition, rather than as simply an individual whose existence is reflected in her surroundings and supporting cast.
I don't think it's important, at least not to me, whether or not the parallels are intentional, whether or not the show was designed to follow the 7 chakras. For me they can be seen as a natural way of expressing personal growth; so it makes sense that the show, consciously or not, would follow a similar path. Writers often fit in with things they're unaware of, and I'm sure there's a Joss quote somewhere about this; what's interesting is the way it fits in, how it deviates and how it doesn't. I always like to look at the show through one particular concept, like existentialism for example, because it's a way of fitting BtVS in with the context of other works of art, literature and philopsophy which address similar ideas. Also, fun.
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Re: Something Else Entirely: another take on the Buffy Metaphor -- Dariel, 17:44:54 01/26/03 Sun
Amazing post! I think your views will be confirmed in season 7.
...the seventh chakra is located at the top of the head, sometimes pictured as above the head, to indicate that it is not part of the body. The rapture of the seventh chakra is not conditioned by any form, not even that of the yogi.
It represents the overcoming of the world of forms...
So who/what is our Big Bad? A shapeshifting entity that takes on the form of the dead. Which refers to the illusory nature of the world of forms (the dead are, well dead, not walking around!), it's lack of movement and growth, its tendency to steer us in the wrong direction if we're not careful. Buffy has to see (she has to "wake up) past the FE and the forms it takes, to its true "face," its true being.
...and all its accompanying binary oppositions, in the complete extinguishing of the self into undifferentiated consciousness.
Buffy has always insisted on separating her slayer self from her "real self." So, if manwitch is right, Buffy must integrate these two aspects by the end of the season in order to defeat the Big Bad. I see this as an integration of the slayer with the loving, caring Buffy, both of whom we're seeing more of this season. Yes, she kills, but with love of others in mind.
The energies of chakra one, in which the yogi overcame his spiritless ego to begin the journey, are used to assist in the activation of chakra seven, but here the very ego to be overcome is the one activated at the first chakra, the ego that has successfully traversed all the chakras up to this point.
Buffy has been joined by the Potentials, who could be seen as representing chakra one. They are sluggish in the beginning, not wanting to become involved in the dangerous activities of slaying. Although they've got past that one pretty fast!
A number of people have posited that Buffy will have to lose her power, cede it to another at the end of the season. I don't agree; I just think she will have to share it, will have to let go of being the Chosen One.
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Lovely. Profound. Completely Kaboom-y. -- Haecceity, 21:21:13 01/26/03 Sun
Will have to print and read and re-read to answer properly, but LOVE the first of three--the elegant summing up of why this show matters so much to so many of us and why examining narrative is so much like looking into our own souls.
---Haecceity
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Why do we love Buffy? -- Dochawk, 00:52:39 01/27/03 Mon
I think you have touched on why Buffy touches a part of humanity in the way few other artists ever have. Its because Buffy touches us in our core in a way that few other people have been able to touch us. if you don't mind, I am going to send the first two parts of your essay to my friends when they ask why I love this show so much and how it can effect my life so. It answers that question much more eloquently than I would ever have a chance of doing.
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See? Missed!! -- Rahael, 14:27:20 01/27/03 Mon
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I'm glad you saw this thread Rah. I was afraid you'd miss it. -- Sophist, 16:16:10 01/27/03 Mon
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